"I hate when someone insults my intelligence by telling me a stupid lie and thinks I am going to believe it."

I can totally relate to this, my SD10 is doing exactly the same thing. And it's only started recently, I'm very disappointed. BM lies about little and big things, so that is not helping either.
She's also starting to given us sneaky looks, if that makes sense.. Very annoying.

I wish I knew what to say to you but I don't know what to do about it either. I suppose it is best if we stick to our own guns here, If she lies there need to be consequences for that behavior.

When I was a kid I sometimes lied to my parents about little things. Just because I wanted to go somewhere and I knew they wouldn't let me if I told the truth. So I made up a little story and I got to go. Every time I got caught out because I wasn't very good at it I suppose. What I hated most was my parents' anger, I felt bad for insulting them like that and it never became a real issue because I stopped doing it. So even though there were not any other consequences, apart from them getting angry when they found out, I stopped doing it.

I have a feeling that that might not be enough in our case though, I also worry about where this is going to go when she hits teen years. SD10's best friend is a sly thing as well, which is not helping the situation. And SD10 just wants to fit in, she's a real 'follower'. Whatever sly friend suggests is what will be done.

Now that we've finally organised counseling I hope that things will change if SD10 gets a bit more confidence in her own abilities and once she starts forming her own opinion.

So, I hear you and I'm also interested to see what others advice!

Ima, I know you want the best for SD, but maybe you have to give her some ability to control her own life. Life is full of compromises. Why is she not allowed to have her hair short if she wants it? Food is a difficult issue. I know you have said she has weight issues (not to mention there maybe $$ issues), but I think you have to get her to buy into controlling food issues. The only child I know that age who got her weight under control, took control herself. Her parents took her to MD, had MD talk to her, and the girl took ownership. Not that there wernt times she fell off the wagon, but she made progress.

How old is your SD, Ima? I'm kinda on the fence about this one. I suspect that she's trying to exert control over some of the things in her life and this is the only way she knows to do it.

Cutting her hair and temporary tattoos seem like very small things to get excited about to me and things that would be appropriate for her to control at almost any age.

Just a stab in the dark, really... The homework and food issues ARE bigger, I agree.

When my SD10 first came to live with me she lied about the most ridiculous things and we knew that it was a lie. She would sit in front of us and lie like a rug. I could always tell when she was....she would put her "botox" face on. No emotion or expression is her face what so ever. It was kind of funny but ticked me off just the same.

It is soooooo common for kids to lie at this age. They lie for several reasons. To get what they want or to stop from getting in trouble. I don't think you are going to be able to reason with her yet about some of these things and it is my OP that maybe lowering your standard a little and working with her over the things that she wants would be easier for everyone.

We give hot lunch to SD10 once a week. That is just our rule. We have let her pick from the vendors which day she wants it and unless I am sick and do not want to pack her lunch she takes her lunch 4 days a week. When she was younger (before DH and I married) she would buy lunch for classmates....The teachers fault there. If you can take the lunch ticket back and just give it to her when you want her to have hot lunch that would take care of things. Use it as a reward possibly?

As far as the hair cut goes I think that if she wants short hair that shouldn't be such a big deal. What bothers me most about that situation is that she is being pulled between her BM and dad. It isn't her fault that mom wants to cut her hair. Your SD knew that her dad didn't want her to get her hair cut and mom did. That is really putting the little girl in the middle of the parents over something that, IMHO, it isn't one of life's big deals. When my SD33 was a little girl and still living with her mom she had really long hair. Her mother would not take care of it and when SD would come for visits I would spend a lot of time trying to get the mats out of her hair that would form right next to her neck. Her mom wanted her hair long. SD wanted it cut so we cut it without moms permission. Not saying that you guys don't take care of daughter's hair......just a hair issue.

What is the reason that dad dislikes the tattoos so much? I'm not crazy about them but for us it isn't a big deal.

If standards are set too high for a young child then I think they will choose to lie more often then if they have a little slack in what is expected of them.

I hate to be lied to. Most people do. I would suggest for your sake and hers that you ease up a bit. You can't look at every little thing as a huge problem. If she lies about things and you don't catch it, so what. Believe me....your nerves are going to suffer more if you eye ball her too much. The fact is, she is going to lie and you aren't always going to know about it.

I don't think it is worth a fight if they like a hair style different than the adult. If she had the control she wouldn't be told to keep a hair cut appointment a secret. When you are ready to let her take hot lunch again, I would be tempted to let her have just a lunch card, no breakfast and ala carte. Your SD already has a lot of drama and stress in her life, especially her BM, is carrying lunch in her school common or does it make her different?

I had the same issue with the lunch thing. Taking lunch, and buying lunch. Eating breakfast, then getting chocolate milk and sugar cereal at school breakfast. I finally stopped torturing me and her by letting her have hot lunch and dropping her off late enough that she wouldn't have time for double breakfast. Then I make sure she eats really healthy for dinner. It's a compromise.

I think temporary tattoos are fabulous. What a great way to allow kids to experiment. I think letting a child play with them will deter them from getting really fugly tattoos in the future (or possibly tattoos at all).

It's her hair. Let her do what she likes with it.

I agree with Believer that "If standards are set too high for a young child then I think they will choose to lie more often then if they have a little slack in what is expected of them."

Just my two cents. I understand your frustration.

I agree that these are not life altering big issues.

Her hair: She needed a haircut. We took her to a salon and let her pick a style. She picked one that kept her hair long but layered it. She loved it. She got compliments from school and was (we thought) happy about it. She went to her mom's that weekend and even mom told us it was so cute. Now, mom may have just been saying that because it was the next weekend that grandma took SD to get it cut short. Was mom secretly pissed and just telling us it was cute? Did SD really want it short but afraid to upset dad? or did grandma make the decision? Who knows. It's very possible that SD just wants to please both parents and she IS stuck in the middle there. I was irritated because... first, I paid for the first salon so that was wasted money. second, SD picked the first hair style, so we figured it was what she wanted. third, she knew her dad didn't want her to cut her hair short and that grandma was going to cut it short and she kept it secret from him. Personally, both styles were cute. I don't care how she has her hair but it does look unkempt when it's shorter. At this point, it's grown out and too short for a ponytail (an easy fix for her wild hair) but no longer the cute style she had. It looks like a messy mop and she needs to do something about it. My stance on it: I am not paying for another trip to the salon so her mom can go 'redo' it. It may not be the best stance for me to take, but it's how frustrated I am because money is becoming an issue. I don't like to waste it.

Food: She takes cold lunch for a few reasons. Hot lunch is a privilege and it costs nearly $3 a day so it's less expensive to fix lunch at home. We can also make healthier food choices because the school offers more junk food like pizza, corn dogs, and burritos. School lunches are disappointing, in my opinion. Again, it's not an issue about food so much as she sat DH down and asked him when she can take hot lunch. He told her when her grades come up and she even asked if she can use her own money and he told her no. He told her when her grades improve and then she goes and does it after she was told no. It's a matter of being able to trust her. In another thread, someone suggested a kid make their own breakfast or lunch because he didn't like SM's oatmeal but BM's was great. SD should be making her own stuff too. She is physically capable of doing that, but she was overheard telling her sister (who was home alone at grandma's house) to raid all the junk food since nobody was home to stop her. When SD thinks like that, how do we hand over the responsibility to prepare most of her meals? At her mom's house, she is allowed to fix herself food and she gained 20 pounds in two months last summer. Now, we don't have much junk food in our house but I can see her packing nothing but cookies or snacks instead of a sandwich, fruit & a couple of snacks that we give her now. She would do it correctly if we watch her but we can't always be watching everything she does and she should be learning these skills by now. My problem with this is that I think she is old enough to do lots of these things on her own and DH doesn't. It's hard for me to convince him when she keeps sneaking around & doing things he specifically tells her not to. That only reinforces his belief that she is going to ignore him and only do what she wants. Well, she is already doing that.

The issue of the tattoos is more about his feelings toward BM. I know lots of kids play with tattoos. More and more, teenagers are getting real ones too. Personally, I think they can look nice... when you get them. These kids that get them when they are young adults... aren't necessarily thinking about how that tattoo on their lower back will look after a couple of kids or when they are 50 or 60 year old grandma's. But, maybe times are changing and I'm just too old fashioned. However, DH takes issue with SD following her mom's lead. She dresses sleazy, dances sleazy and has tattoos... and has never worked a real day in her life. She relies on men to take care of her... (or her mom). SD will tell him what she wants to be when she grows up and it's... a stripper, a cheerleader, a model. She is very focused on using her looks in that way. Then, SD has talked about boys for what seems like forever. She has been boy crazy since I met her at 5. She's been in trouble for kissing a boy at school, telling a boy she wants to have sex with him, and sitting on a teenage boys lap trying to hug & kiss him on the bus. So, when she comes back from BM's, wearing sleazy clothes and temporary tattoos on her neck or belly, he gets worked up. He does not want her to end up 'just like her mom' but he doesn't realize he has no control over that. Girls model after their mom's and that is what her mom does. He wants her to model after me or his mom or other females that don't do those things and sure, that would be great... but she WANTS to be like her mom. He's fighting a losing battle there. My problem again, is that he tells her no tattoos and next week, she has them but in places he can't see... so she is going to do what she wants and hide them now.

Overall, I used those as examples of what I feel is the biggest problem we have with SD. We can't trust her. It's not like my kids never lied to me, but I can always tell when they are lying and they never had this attitude of "I'm going to do what I want and there's nothing YOU can do about it." SD has that attitude and she's right... she does what she wants and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. He can't uncut her hair. He can't change that she ate something. He can (and does) remove the tattoos but next week, she'll just do it again and try to hide them better. He told her he doesn't care if her mom lets her do it over there, he can't stop it but she has to remove them before she comes back. Then she puts them where she figures he can't see them. It's just the sneaky way it's done and the inability to trust her that is bothering me now. I want to be able to believe she will do what she says she is going to. She has a report due today. DH told her yesterday morning to finish it and he would check it last night. When he came home and asked to check it, she told him she finished it and left it in her desk at school because it's done and she's going to turn it in. How do we know it's done? She lied the last time she said something was done & turned in so now he asks to see it before she turns it in and she 'left it in her desk'. Maybe it's done, maybe she's lying again. We'd love to believe it's done and she's going to turn it in and all but this is what I mean. It's the issue of trusting her.

Why can't mom cut her hair? I think it is a bit controlling on the dad's side. If he likes long hair on women, it doesn't mean he needs to demand his daughter looks this way too. My X loves short hair on women, for years he nagged DD to cut her hair. You couldn't make DD to do what she didn't want to do at any age, so he backed off. But it always seemed like controlling issue to me. I don't even think men should control their daughters' appearances (unless it is a health issue). But that's why i am not married to my X anymore, don't want control freaks lol

I agree that she should not be eating two lunches, if she is still hungry, give her more fruits. And kids lie for a reason, it is a deffensive machanism. She has no control over her life especially since she is always pulled between two families and parents don't get along. She tries to control her life as much as she could. Even if it means lying. maybe her therapist chan suggest somehting to her and to parents.

Ima, while I agree the school lunches are not the best she wouldn't be doubling up if she didn't have a home packed lunch. It is really sad but I think she is being put in a position that her only way out is to lie in trying to please both parents. I understand your DH not liking the BM's ways but you can't control that. Is getting upset at BM's ways causing your SD more stress? Or would just having good examples at your house, more pleasant times and not putting her in a position to lie work better? i.e. make less out of the tatoo and just don't allow it for school days, continue to let her decide how she wants her hair, continue to help monitor healthy eating at home and your encouragement for better goals.

At this point, would giving in and letting her buy lunch be rewarding her behavior of sneaking or lying?

I agree, it would be easier to write a check for the lunches than buying supplies and getting up to fix her lunch and she won't be able to double up, but she also gets food from other kids at school. (she came home with cookie crumbs in her thermos because a boy at school was giving her cookies, now she rinses her thermos) Ideally, it would have been better to decide that in the beginning of the school year but when she came back from BM's, she had gained 20 lbs & DH didn't want her to get school lunch because it's 'buffet' style and there is no portion control... so in making her lunch, he can choose healthier foods and limit portions. If hunger is her issue, she can have extra fruit or snack, but like I said she gets stuff from other kids too, as well as an after school snack. Now, after she has asked for permission and he said no and she did it anyways, in my opinion, it would be rewarding her or giving in to say 'okay, now you can take hot lunch since you are going to do it anyways.' or because it's easier for us.

I agree that he needs to not make a big deal out of things like the tattoos or hair cut and he's gotten better about not saying anything in front of SD but I always have to hear it when we are alone. Like he told her, if she wants to put tattoos on at her mom's, nothing he can do about it but take them off before you come back. She is hiding them and not telling him so unless he strip searches her, he won't know. He found out because I bought her new pants & when she went to try them on, he lifted her shirt to check the waist and there they are. She had been holding her shirt down to keep him from seeing them.

(and I think another big deal to him is how much of a pathological liar her mom is, he worries she is going to be one too)

It's just a day to day struggle and I am trying to ignore it & leave this to DH and BM. but I can't help but feel frustrated when she does things DH doesn't want her to and he is frustrated and upset, so I get upset too. There really isn't anything that can be done until BM and DH can get along and agree on things, because SD is probably enjoying this because she knows how to get dad worked up, she knows how to get mom to let her do whatever she wants because they don't get along. She is totally playing both of them. DH realizes this and has tried to talk to BM about it but she tells him what he wants to hear and continues doing what she does.

For all I know, SD told DH to cut her hair, knowing it would make her mom mad. Then tells her mom how great her new haircut is so mom will take action and SD may feel like her mom actually cares when she's mad. My son overheard her reading a card I wrote her last year, which told her how much I love her and glad she's here with us... when SD got done reading it, she asks her mom "are you mad?" So, I know that is probably (likely) a big part of this. It's just frustrating for me to watch this play out and feel there is nothing I can do and SD is going to grow up in a house where she can't be trusted and wishing she were with a mom that doesn't want her and playing these games with her parents.

For the past couple of months, I have backed off and letting DH do everything for her. (not my kid, not my problem) It hasn't improved anything between her and I, in fact she ignores me even more because now she doesn't 'need' me, but it has improved my stress level. I let DH worry about things now. However, DH's stress level has gone up though and he is seeing why I was always frustrated with her. Now, my frustration is listening to him vent or be angry because he's now dealing with it.

"she was overheard telling her sister (who was home alone at grandma's house) to raid all the junk food since nobody was home to stop her"

Why do you think she would say this? It sounds to me like a girl who has NO ability to express herself, who hasn't been allowed/taught to self-regulate, and who has a very tight reign on her. So, if she has a free moment, one without someone breathing down her neck, she's gonna "go wild". I predict that if this child cannot have some say in her food, hairstyle or if she plays with toy tattoos, you are gonna have one helluva time with her as a teenager.

Also, using food as a reward/punishment is a surefire way to ensure that she have weight issues. Snacks/treats are one thing....but meals?

And it certainly sounds like she feels "stuck in the middle". If kids are made to feel that way, they will do just what you are describing...figure out what makes mom/dad mad, then play one against the other.

I think you and DH would have a more relaxed, honest girl, if you had a more relaxed approach. If you continue to smother her with all the things she CAN'T do/have/play with/wear, etc....she will continue to be deceitful. Plain & simple.

Imamommy,

I feel for you in having the negative influence for your SD. It is bad enough when that influence is from friends it is infuriating when it comes from her mom. SD was probably trying to keep everyone happy with the hair issue. She just didn't know how to handle it.

Her eating issues and her lack of trust worthiness have probably been exasperated by the divorce and the extreme differences between her mom and dad's value system and life styles. She knows that what her mom does doesn't quite feel right, I would think, but she loves her just the same. If she is in counseling that is the best thing for her.

She is very young. You and DH can continue to set the loving examples for her that you are doing. One of most difficult things as a parent is to do so many right things and still have your child become an adult that you don't like much or that has not embraced the values that you tried so hard to instill in them. My SD33 had a birth mom that lived a lifestyle not conducive to raising a child in and although SD33 has had her issues she is doing just fine as a adult.

Is your SD involved in any physical activities? I think that if she were not I would introduce some mandatory exercise into her life. A family bike ride, walks and the like would get her up and moving. I hate to see parents stress too much about child's weight but if she is over eating and gaining large amounts of weight then you have to put her health first. It just should be presented in a fun and interesting way.

If it turns out that she has lied about the assignment again then I would set up a punishment for that. With my DS16 we have had to come up with accountability tools for him and his school work. For instance....he could not leave school until he had stopped into his Discovery teacher and had her go over his assignment book to make sure that he had all of his books and whatever he needed for the night. That was when he was younger. I know request that his teachers email me about overdue assignments or he has to do detention for them. He has dyslexia so part of this problem is that but part is that he is irresponsible when it comes to his assignments. If she has not completed an assignment that she said she did I would restrict her from everything until it is done and then next time make sure that it is completed when it is due by having you check it off of a list....no " I took it to school and it is in my desk or the dog ate it" kind of crap. The teacher should be willing to work with you on this if you talk to her/him and let them know that you are having a accountability issue with SD. Rewards for positive behaviors are important too. For my SD10 we decided to give her so much money for completing a sheet of practice for her violin. She is an A student but when it came to practicing all she did was complain about it. I decided that I didn't want to listen to that for the next 2 years and it was well worth the price to reward her with money so that she would practice and not complain. She gets spending money when she completes a month worth of practice and I get peace and quite, so to speak. LOL It works for me. It works for her. She is ahead of all of the other string students and has her own money when she wants to by a "Jonas Brothers" poster or the like.

I feel for you and DH.....and for her. She is a sponge. She can't help it.

Ima, I'm sorry. I think you're right about the haircut. It sounds like you're being undermined. It's ridiculous to pay for two haircuts. And, I understand the being able to "do" the hair (ponytails, etc) versus having to "style" a short cut.

And the cost of the hot lunch is understandable too. Ours is under 1/2 that cost so it's not as big of a deal, but I wouldn't pay $3 for that slop either (even though there is a salad bar, etc, my dd doesn't eat off that side!).

I took home lunch as a kid because my parents were uber-health conscious. I lived. Kids have to live with the rules their parents put down.

The weight is definitely an issue. If she has those career goals she will need to be healthy, strong and fit (cheerleader, stripper) and svelte (model). Perhaps mention that if she is going to succeed in her goals her eating and exercise habits should support those goals.

The clothes and career goals would really have me worried. I had a boyfriend who had a daughter (so many years ago!) and she was four. Her mother dressed her in "tot-stitute" outfits and put make-up on her. At nine she should be playing sports, playing with dolls, playing with her friends. Not sexualized.

I think there need to be consequences. If she leaves homework at school, there will be homework at home. See if you can get copies from her teacher. Tell her it's because you want her to succeed. My dd does extra homework when she leaves it at school. She's found it's easier to bring it home and only do it once!

We've talked a lot about trust. I tell her that she trusts me to pick her up on time, to buy food, to take care of her. If she couldn't trust me she would be scared. I tell her it scares me when I can't trust her, and that the more I can trust her the more fun things she will get to do.

I think the food issue is a really serious one and needs to be addressed at a more in-depth level.

I kind of cringe when I hear that school meals are being used as a privilege/reward for good behavior. To me, that is just fueling SD's feelings about food and is setting her up to reward herself with food. That said, I DO completely understand your concerns with the school lunches and I think you are right to forbid her from eating the hot lunch everyday. Honestly, I'd be tempted to say "you are allowed to buy a hot lunch once a week. The food in the cafeteria doesn't provide you with enough healthy choices and eating a hot lunch every day is not a good or healthy choice."

I do think if I were you guys I would stop using the hot lunch as a reward for good behavior or good grades. THe message that you are trying to send is that she needs to make healthy food choices---not that she can eat junk food if she gets good grades.

By letting her have the hot lunch once a week, you are teaching her about moderation and healthy eating. "Sure, it's okay to have pizza and chipsonce a week for lunch, but that's because the rest of the time you make healthier choices."

Let her look at the menu and pick one day a week that she can buy the hot lunch. The rest of the week, have her assist in packing lunch at home---the more involved she is with choosing what goes in her lunchbox, the better she will become at finding healthy options.

As far as the tattoos go---does her school have a policy on them? You might look through the handbook and see if it says anything. I agree with your DH about this to a certain extent. If she has a small temp. tattoo on her belly, I don't think that's THAT big of a deal but something on her neck or anywhere else visible isn't. My SS's mom has a bunch of tattoos and he LOVES them, too. Every time they go to the grocery store, he buys a tattoo out of the toy machine and these are NOT small ones---they are big, wrap-around-the-arm types. He had a black dragon all coiled around his forearm for weeks last fall! It really irked me because it was visible and I thought it looked ridiculous.

I think I'd just try to limit the tattoos to places where they aren't visible, and maybe have a no-school day policy. If she wants to have a fake tattoo on a weekend, fine, but it's not appropriate for school.

iamamommy, are you perhaps my other personality posting without my knowledge?

Honestly, I have almost ALL of the same issues but in my case there are much less important than other issues that I face...And here is how I deal with them.

Fake tattoos...
All of my kids think these are cool. They come home with these all the time. But I have 4 boys and only one girl. Not a big deal when a boy comes home with something on his wrist, for example. SD gets fake tattoos also...on her belly. I didn't think it was cute or nice but in this case I just decided to let it go. Far more important things to deal with...

Piercings:
A lot of SD14's friends were getting their belly buttons pierced. I know because whenever we went to an event or practice their friends were pulling up their shirts to show everyone their belly rings or were wearing cropped off shirts so they would be seen automatically. Our stance is that SD is NOT to be wearing clothing that shows her belly and we don't think she should be pulling her shirt up either. BM had her belly button pierced twice and once wore cut off shorts and a tube top with a belly button ring that had a chain attached to it to pick up the kids...I'll add this was in January (it was snowing outside AND BM was coughing and hacking all over the place.) The chain ran down her belly through her shorts and hung out below her shorts. Freaking sleezy. DH says NO belly ring. I do too. A 14 year old girl shouldn't be showing off her body.

Hair:
This was annoying for awhile but there was a simple fix. SD had wanted streaks in her hair since before I knew her at 8 years old. For her 12th birthday we let her get 6 very small blond streaks in her hair. At the time she got them, BM hadn't seen the kids in 2 1/2 years. She saw her for the first time about a month later. BM hated her hair and complained about it for months. Then when SD was 13 the BIG thing happened. We have a rule in our house. If you want to make a BIG change appearance wise you have to wait 6 months...if you still want it 6 months later we'll do it. SD wanted to be a blond...totally. She talked to BM about it first who didn't like the idea but said if that's what SD wanted she would say okay. So we did it and she looked great. It wasn't cheap either...SD goes to visit BM the next weekend and I go down to pick her up on Sunday...Out of BM's van walks a brunette. BM had dyed SD's hair back to it's original color. Of course I wasn't very happy about that but then again neither was SD. A few weeks later I took the kids for hair cuts. SS11 wanted a spiky cut and SD wanted something simple. I feel that a child doesn't have a whole lot of options to express themselves so their choice of hair was fine with me...Haircuts aren't cheap though so imagine how upset I was when they came back from Mom's after the next visit with a different cut. BM actually took the shears to them herself. This is when DH and I made a decision...If BM is going to redo everything we try to do, she can pay for haircuts...end of story. Especially with SD. At times I have taken a kid or two to get their hair cut and SD has said "I want to get mine cut too." I tell her that we made the decision to let BM handle her hair. End of story. No fussing about it.

I have to admit to being very lenient on hair choices. SS9 wanted a mohawk at 7. He got one. DS15's hair is longer than mine. DS15's original color hair color is red...He has been dying his hair black for 2 years now and swears that it changed his whole "social life." I miss his red hair but it's his head...he has to walk around with it all day..and as long as his pants are hanging down below his butt I'll go with the whole hair thing.

In my situation I found it was much easier to pick my battles...and to let go of things that were beyond my control (like BM redoing every hair style...Just let her take on the expense and the requests for dye jobs and mohawks. Saves me a lot of stress!)

Mom of five:

"BM had her belly button pierced twice and once wore cut off shorts and a tube top with a belly button ring that had a chain attached to it to pick up the kids...I'll add this was in January (it was snowing outside AND BM was coughing and hacking all over the place.) The chain ran down her belly through her shorts and hung out below her shorts. Freaking sleezy."

WTF?????????? Thanks for the HORRIBLE mental image!!! (delete file, delete file, delete file)

I so agree wiht nicksmom on this one (and it does not happen much so it counts for something lol).

it is sad but I predict more lies in the future and i worry that one day SD will rebell in extreme way which would lead to teenage pregnancy or such. Too much control over SD's every step, and i agree that food should never be a reward or punishment.

It is easy to blame mom for doing stupid stuff but it does not excuse dad's way of parenting either. They both are at fault. Mom allows too much and dad controls too much. Push and pull, unhealthy for a child.

It is tough and I understand dad does not know what to do.

i would just let go off that much control over every step of your children and it never leads to anything good. She needs to know that people can trust her and she can trust them. My DD made attempts to lie about grades but she quickly realized there is no point to lie because I don't go crazy every time she makes mistakes. So why lie?

silversword...NO KIDDING! Be glad you didn't have to actually see it. I kind of figured she was wearing this as a sort of "look at what your missing" kind of thing to DH...it was the first time after 2 1/2 years that she was coming to pick up the kids for a visit...I mean WHO would wear something like that when it's snowing outside UNLESS they have another motive? Especially when she was already sick AND was coming to pick up their 3 children for a visit? She continued to dress like this until I became the pick up/drop off person when DH's schedule changed. Kind of sad that she doesn't want to dress up for me...but oh well. (hahaha! Just kidding obviously!)

Momof5....I just threw up in my mouth!!!!!!!

This is pretty gross but I'll tell you any way....When piercings really started to take off my daughter really wanted one. I told her that I thought I would get my nipples pierced and have a chain that ran from one side, around my neck, to the other side. I was going to do this so that I could have them both pointing in the same direction....I let her get her nose pierced....I did not get anything pierced. She doesn't even wear the nose stud anymore. I, however, could use the help that I mentioned....:0)

Oh my...I just read my entry again and made some mistakes. What I meant to say was that we have far more important issues to deal with outside of hair, etc in our house so I chose to choose my battles and let those things be a non-issue...

And as far as my DS15...I meant as long as his pants are NOT hanging below his butt I'll deal with the whole dying his long hair thing. Man, I really need to learn to proofread!

I'm THRILLED I didn't have to see it. I have never seen such a thing, and I have lived in big cities where people have all sorts of piercings. Belly rings don't bother me if show appropriately (in casual situations, at the beach) but are inappropriate for young people due to health and sexual issues, IMO.

But the chain hanging out of her shorts? Y'know what that brings to mind? "honey, you need to tuck in your 'string'!"

Sorry, but that's what I think of. Just thought I'd spread the gross-out love...

Well, thank you ladies.... I really do feel better about all of this, and I'm actually thankful BM isn't THAT bad!