If your SD's report is accurate and unbiased, his actions sound very inappropriate and like possible 'grooming' behavior to me.

But IMO, it's a MINEFIELD.
She might be telling the absolute truth -
but there's also the possibility she's not.

How old is SD? Sounds like she's old enough to get a 'vibe' but still young enough to be unsure about it. (Not that perverts don't also target the very very young.)
How unbiased do you think she was with you?
Would she have embellished her story because you had a strong reaction? (Who wouldn't?)
Or might she have downplayed it to keep the peace?
Would she slant things to the 'creepy' to avoid going to Mom's?
Would she distort things to deliberately start trouble? (Some kids do...)
Or could she be looking for attention?
Did she tell her father? Her mother?
Did she ask you not to tell anyone?
Have there been any other incidents?
Have you looked this guy up on sex offender sites?

And perhaps most importantly - How reasonable is BioMom?
Is she one of those desparate, needy women who 'need' a boyfriend (any BF) so badly that she'd ignore or worse, scold or blame her daughter?
Or is she approachable on the topic?
I would expect her to 'minimize' or 'gloss over' the inappropriateness of BF's conduct -- but at the same time, a reasonable, concerned mother would also go on 'red alert'...

Would you be willing to give Mom different times so SD won't have to be there when Mom isn't there?
And does SD have a cell phone she can use to call you anytime she needs to?

For what it's worth, it sounds like you handled things very well -- but I'd be worried sick about the future. IMO, you don't really have enough to go on to restrict visitation (beyond what Mom agrees to) or to go to DSS or the police. But it's NOT RIGHT to send a child into an atmosphere where she gets 'wrong vibes' and there's even a hint of 'smoke'...

I would assume that everything she has told you is the truth. I come at this from the point of view of having my SD33 molested by her mom's bf.

Don't send her back. If she were to tell a teacher at school this they would have to report it. I suggest that you call and talk to the police or CPS about this. Don't send her back. Please.

If, and it is a big if IMHO, she is making this up then she needs help also. The questions that Sweeby raised are in need of answering by you and DH but you didn't mention that she leaned in that direction.

My SD33's BM believed the boyfriend. The statute of limitations had passed and the county did not prosecute him even though he had it on his record that he had done it before to another gf's yound daughter. Mom stayed with him for several years. Later he killed a woman by chasing her onto a woman's porch and shooting her in the face 6 times. He then drove to his mothers neighborhood and killed himself.

Talk to a professional now. They will tell you how common it is to have kids lie about this kind of thing.

Personally, I don't think it matters if BF did/meant anything wrong by it. If a child is uncomfortable enough to tell dad/SM, then it's URGENT for mom to know and stop all contact alone with BF. It isn't to say BF did anything wrong, but it would be to protect BF if he didn't mean anything by it. I would not jump in blaming anyone or making any accusations, but tell mom that since SD has brought this to your attention, she is uncomfortable and for BF's sake, he should not be put in a position to have accusations made against him. False allegations are worse than true ones, in my opinion.

SD's comfort level with his behavior has to do with her perception and if she perceives anything inappropriate, it is better to be safe than sorry.... There is always the possibility of him actually doing something or her accusing him when he didn't. Why take that chance? I wouldn't want to be alone with her again, if I were him.

I should clarify --
I certainly don't mean to imply she was 'lying' and don't think she was.
There's clearly validity to her feelings and also some truth to the facts of what happened.

But it's such a complicated situation because the BF's intent is a huge factor in the seriousness of the situation.
If he truly was cluelessly kidding around (doesn't sound likely, but possible), then it's an unfortunate misunderstanding.
But if he's a perv with bad intentions, then what he has actually done is only the tip of a really sick iceberg.

My whole point was just that this is a very 'gray' area, and one with lots of room for interpretation -- which could go in either direction.
Which means you need to tread very carefully and avoid reacting too quickly and too emotionally so that you don't damage your/her credibility up front.

Thanks all. As Sweeby pointed out it is such a gray area. My sd is usually honest about things and I do not see why she would make up something like this. I would think if it was made up she would have added a lot worse than a kiss and a slap on the butt.

But sd only sees mom a few times a year and we don't want to jump the gun on this.

To answer Sweewby's questions:

How old is SD? SHE IS 13

How unbiased do you think she was with you? THE WAY SHE SAID IT ALL DID NOT SEEM LIKE AN ACT

Would she have embellished her story because you had a strong reaction? I REALLY TRIED NOT TO REACT AS SHE WAS SAYING IT AND KEPT MY VOICE NORMAL AND MY REACTION UNSEEN
Or might she have downplayed it to keep the peace? SHE HAS NOT SEEN HER MOM IN MONTHS, SO THIS HAPPENED A WHILE AGO AND I AM NOT SURE WHAT TO THINK ABOUT HER JUST NOW BRINGING THIS UP

Would she slant things to the 'creepy' to avoid going to Mom's? SHE GETS SAD AT TIMES THAT HER MOM DOES NOT SEE OR CALL HER MORE SO I DONT THINK SO

Would she distort things to deliberately start trouble? SHE HAS NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE

Or could she be looking for attention? POSSIBLE I GUESS
Did she tell her father?NO...AFTER TELLING ME I ASKED HER IF WE COULD SHARE THIS WITH HER FATHER AND SHE ASKED ME TO TELL HIM FOR HER

Her mother? NO

Did she ask you not to tell anyone?NO
Have there been any other incidents? YES...ONCE WITH A GIRL...THAT WAS ACTUALLY MY FIRST POST ON HERE...AND IT WAS ALL TRUE-THE GIRL ADMITTED TO THE INCIDENT AND HER PARENTS SAID IT HAD HAPPENED BEFORE

Have you looked this guy up on sex offender sites? YES AND DID NOT SEE HIM

And perhaps most importantly - How reasonable is BioMom? NOT REASONABLE AT ALL

Is she one of those desparate, needy women who 'need' a boyfriend (any BF) so badly that she'd ignore or worse, scold or blame her daughter? YES

Or is she approachable on the topic? NO

It is totally inappropriate for a man to smack his SD13 on the but. Totally. If she feels uncomfortable discussing this with her dad, I suspect she thinks this either is or is leading towards something inappropriate. Dad should tell CPS. She should not go back.

Oh dear... It would have been simpler in a way if it sounded like SD was just stirring the pot, but honestly, it doesn't. She sounds like a 13 year old kid who got a really creepy vibe from inappropriate behavior and knows just enough to know she smells something... In other words, she sounds very credible to me.

The time delay -- sounds right to me. Sounds like just the kind of thing a young girl would need to mull over and decide what to do about. Was it really 'creepy'? Could she have misunderstood it? And once she concluded that she didn't, then what to do...

Asking you to tell her dad - again, sounds just like a young girl who's maybe wondering if somehow she did something wrong. Or even if she didn't, is still very uncomfortable talking about anything remotely sexual with her Dad. Maybe scared he will blow a fuse on her behalf? Even the situation with the other girl -- all just part of a great big adolescent mess.

Most of all, I'm so sorry that Mom is a part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.

What are your legal rights? Do you even have the legal right to refuse to allow Mom visitation? Because I agree that she shouldn't have to go back there -- But at the same time, going straight to DSS/CPS or the police and alleging 'sexual abuse' for a swat on the butt and a hug and kiss (however inappropriate it was) -- could easily be twisted into sounding like "Dad's trying to keep my daughter from me!", and with so many charges of false accusations where custody is in dispute, this could easily backfire.

Can you go to your family law attorney and ask to have the custody arrangement re-worked so that SD sees Mom *the same amount of time* but only in places and times where the BF is not involved? Make it very clear that your intent is NOT to keep SD away from her Mom, only to keep her safe (and feeling safe) from BF? Which, as Ima pointed out, keeps BF safe from allegations of sexual misconduct?

I'm a sex crimes detective. This is what I do for a living. I absolutely think that he is beginning 'grooming' behaviors. He's testing the waters to see what he can get away with and how SD responds to his advances. You don't want to leave SD in the situation UNTIL something bad happens, but rather trust her judgement when she says that things feel uncomfortable. With all that said, we find that middle school aged children commonly have ulterior motives for these comments. Not always, but a lot of the time. Sometimes it could be for reasons as simple as SD wanting to have BM to herself, etc. There are special counselors tasked with interviewing children and teenagers for the purpose of determining if any sexual abuse has occurred without leading the child at all. These counselors are call Forensic Psychologists. Parents, counselors and teachers are required to report 'disclosures' made by children to police and department of children services. Please be mindful that allegations like these are serious and can turn everyone's world upside down, so make sure that the potential victim is credible. Also, if you believe something is going on, contact the police before confronting the perpetrator. A lot of the times, police contact the perp last. Tipping off the per that the police are involved can damage a case. Follow you police department's lead in handling the case. Detectives have many tricks up there sleeves, so you might be surprised what evidence they can collect to assist in prosecution.

I think this situation needs to be dealt with very delicately. I understand the bf's actions were strange and maybe grooming. I completely agree that it was not appropriate.

But with all he did being a smack on the butt, a hug, and a kiss that can unfortunately easily be explained off. Then your dh could end up looking like he is trying to keep sd from her mom or something.

If it were me I would let sd know she has every right to feel wierd about bf's actions. I would let her know that she needs to tell him to stop when he is making her feel uncomfortable. I would also arm her with a cell phone so she can text you if she is feeling like something wierd is going on.

Also, when bm wants to make plans to see sd I would find out if she will be working during that time. If she is then I would not have sd go.

I really think that this situation is hard.

My SD33 was much younger when it happened to her. She ended up telling a friend in her class, two years later. The friend told the teacher and so on.

Even if you SD doesn't see this man often I see that as no reason to not speak to authorities about the behavior. He will come into contact with many other kids even if SD sees her mom just a few times a year. Chances are she is not the only one that he has behaved with in this manner.
I do not see anything that he has done as innocent behavior. As said by others this sounds like grooming behavior. If a kid her age did this to her I would consider it stepping over the line and abusive/controlling behavior on a 13 year olds part if it had happened in the same manner.

Yes it is a slippery slope but something has to be done. Like I said....he will be in contact with other young girls. Put it in the hands of professionals. Even then a lot of times they don't protect the children like they should. Or the laws don't. I would not want his behavior on my conscience. If my SD33's molester had been stopped when he messed with the first girl that was in his file then my SD wouldn't have been molested and the woman he shot would not have died. He was her English Professor at a Community College. She was married and when she went bact to her husband he couldn't take the rejection. He broke into their home and knifed the husband. Chased the woman down the street and killed her. These guys usually have other behaviors that aren't quite right also.

"I would let her know that she needs to tell him to stop when he is making her feel uncomfortable" - I am sorry I diagree. This is too much to put on a 13YO. Whether Dad chooses to talk to X or CPS first is a tough one, BUT TO EXPECT SD TO STAND UP TO A SF IS JUST UNREALISTIC AND UNFAIR. He is in a position of power.

"It is totally inappropriate for a man to smack his SD13 on the but. Totally."

I wholeheartedly agree.

This girl knows her in gut that something is *wrong* about what he's doing, but she is still too young to put her finger on what exactly that is. I think intuition is a POWERFUL TOOL and you and DH need to listen to SD's! She knows something is not right.

You need to find legal ways to protect her. I would not be comfortable sending her back to that house EVER. It takes one time for something to happen to forever change this girl's life. My (male) cousin was raped at 13 yrs old by his stepfather (on a 'male bonding' camping trip) and it forever changed him. He went from being a sweet kid to an arsonist, druggie and now he is serving 3 years in prison for gun/drug related charges. I am not one to place blame but my cousin's life went downhill when he was ASSAULTED and he did not tell anyone for YEARS--so the abuse continued over time. It did so much damage to him and I am SO SAD and ANFRY for him.

Please take your SD's concerns to heart and see what legal options you have in terms of not sending her back there.

I'm with the majority..something has to be done..call CPS and don't let her go back there. If you do and something else happens CPS might wonder why you waited. Kids usually don't lie about this stuff and I'm with KK...Do not expect her to stand up to a predator

This is worse than the predator at the candy store or whatever. SD cant just walk away.

On a related point to people on this board -- having a life does not mean having a husband. For everyone here who wishes that Dads X would get a life, get over it and get remarried, I would say, again, a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. Wish that dad's X would get a better job, improve her education if appropriate. Keep her house clean or cook better, if it needs it. But when you define happiness or success as having a husband, you put pressure on these things happening. Now obviously not every SF will be inappropriated, but when you define happiness as being married, then there is more pressure to be married.

I agree with two-thirds of that KKNY --

Getting on with life does NOT necessarily mean getting a "replacement man," and women who view life that way go through life with one foot in the hole, so to speak -- at a permanent disadvantage.

That said, The Right Man can make life so much more wonderful, and calling a true partnership a 'fish and a bicycle' simply sounds like sour grapes.

But back to the SD issue --
While I absolutely agree that telling SD to "stand up to BF" is not enough, it also has to be done. She can't NOT do it, because not saying "NO" is, to him, the same as saying "maybe." She has to give him a clear and unambiguous message that she is NOT to be messed with. Every girl, every woman needs to know how to send this message - and in a variety of ways. Kindly to the nice boy who worked his courage up for weeks to ask her to the school dance, civilly to the co-worker she doesn't like but has to work with, and FIRMLY to the jerk or creep whose interest is in itself inappropriate.

Helpwiththis - Sounds like it's time for you and Dad to go to the police and seek real advice.

Rachael_Rae - That is what you're suggesting, isn't it?

Its one thing to deal with the boy who asks you to a dance, its another with SF. Please dont put SD in this position.

And its not sour grapes, but I wouldnt expect anything less from most of this board.

1. smacked her backside. There's no excuse for this.

2. called her into bedroom. There's no excuse for this.

3. kissed her *on the lips*. There's no excuse for this.

I think I'd be over there making sure this creep knew that I'd cut his bells & his deck right off if he even winked at her again.

I'm with Sylvia.

I will share with you what I have shared with no one before to hopefully spare this little girl a pain-filled exhistance.

At age 6 I was raped repeatedly by one of my mothers BF's, I told my mother & she did not believe me/ or didn't want to, whaterever. My mother went back & forth with this guy until he died of a heroin overdose. At this time I was left with a very kind hispanic family who kept me for almost a month before my grandmother came and got me.

Fast forward to age 13 her then BF would show me his privates accidentally, or rub up against me when my mother was at work, touch me inappropriately etc. Then he would place my hand on his penis. My mother again didn't believe me. I ran away, lived on the streets, in drug houses, I started acting out, using drugs, starving myself, abusing myself and letting boys/men take advantage me due to low self esteem. I did not care if I lived or died. This went on until I was 19 and had my son, which was the one and only reason I finally got it together..

The molestations only led to very poor self esteem, not repsecting myself and years and years of self abuse, suicidal thoughts, drug use & self loathing (this self loathing, depression and occasioanl suicidal thought-no plans, no worries please-continues to this day) and you all know where I'm at now. This was all before my mother married my wonderful saint of a SF.

I no longer blame my mother, I think it was just too awful for her to believe-and she had her own issues at the time. We have a decent/good relationship now but we never speak of the "awful" years before she met & married my SF. She has completely turnd her life around and is a good supportive mother/grandmother the past 20 yr.s. The subject is closed I will not speak of it to anyone in my family-ever. It is behind me. My SF does not know any of it and it would kill him if he did.

But I will say if what OP posted happened to my daughter I fear I would take the law into my own hands. I urge you & your DH to reassure your SD, call the police and not let her go back there-EVER. I never ever felt "safe" until I realized my SF cared, was a decent guy, wasn't going anywhere and wasn't just another creep. Actually he is the one that was there for me emotionally when my Bio Dad died when I was 15.

Your SD needs to be kept safe and she knows this guy is a creep/molester. Don't let her go and above all-KEEP HER SAFE.

~Cat

I agree that everything that creep did was inappropriate!

But I also know how some courts look at a custodial parent who interferes with the visitation of a non custodial parent. And there have been so many cases of false allegations that true ones like hers may not be believed.

What happens if dad tells bm, she does not want to believe it, and then she takes him to court for interfering with visitation? What if a judge gives bm custody because it is "in the best interest of the child to be allowed contact with both parents" and the father is not allowing that?

All I am saying is try to take ima's suggestion of letting the bm know the concerns. Try to word it like ima said with the "you don't want to leave bf alone with her because of possible allegations". Also arm the girl with the courage to say no to anyone who makes her feel uncomfortable and a cell phone for emergencies. If bm leaves the girl alone with bf let sd know she is to call you right away and you will pick her up!

If you jump the gun on this and not allow any visitation bm could slant it to make dad look like the problem. Thats all I am saying.

There are not "possible allegations" -- there are allegations. How do you "arm" girl to deal with SF? I said, its a tough call -- does DH go to mom or CPS first. If it were my kid, I would try to get her to tell a teacher or guidance counselor, so that an unbiased third party will hear this. The father is allowing contact with mom, just not with SF alone. I would ask an attorney if they could obtain an order of protection against SF. (I dont think, but could be wrong, that it is unliekly that any criminal charges could be pressed).

There are not "possible allegations" -- there are allegations. How do you "arm" girl to deal with SF? I said, its a tough call -- does DH go to mom or CPS first. If it were my kid, I would try to get her to tell a teacher or guidance counselor, so that an unbiased third party will hear this. The father is allowing contact with mom, just not with SF alone. I would ask an attorney if they could obtain an order of protection against SF. (I dont think, but could be wrong, that it is unliekly that any criminal charges could be pressed).

help,

Ah, a post after my own heart!

My husband's X once remarried a guy who was about 30 years her senior after only knowing him for about 6 weeks. I was managing a hotel and he was a VP at the very company that gave my hotel roughly 60% of our business, so I knew a lot of his subordinates because they were frequent guests at my hotel. (BM met him at my hotel's lounge because she apparently got some kind of "kick" out of coming into MY hotel to pick up men.)

Well, I was talking to some of her future husband's subordinates late on night about their upcoming wedding, and when I told them the news they seemed very uncomfortable because most of them knew BM (meaning they had sex with her), and told me that their "boss" usually went for much younger girls--like around the ages of 13 and 14! Considering the fact my husband's daughter were almost that age and absolutely drop-dead gorgeous, this concerned me, however when I told my husband, he didn't seem too worried at the time because he felt his daughters were pretty savy. Just to be on the safe side though, he rented a video on "inappropriate adult touching" and had them watch it.

Well, BM divorced that clown within a year and we didn't think anything of it, until one day when we were visiting my husband's parents who had received some videos from BM of the girls that they wanted us to watch. Most of the videos were fairly innocent--until we got to their last Christmas video, which depicted their new StepDad sitting on a couch, wearing nothing but a Santa's hat, tie and white silk boxer shorts, with little red hearts on them! Then we watched as he had each girl perform little dances for him before sitting them on his lap and rather lewdly asking, "And what would you like Santa to bring you for Christmas little girl?" Along with tickling them and, well....OH MY GOD! Also, as she had married him in October, this indicated the video had been shot less than 2 months after their marriage!

My husband grabbed that tape and brought it to an attorney who told him if he had gotten it before she divorced that scumbag, he could have used it to file for custody, but as she had already divorced him, there was nothing he could do. I STILL can't believe not only that BM actually had the nerve to send that tape to MY husband's PARENTS, but that they also didn't see a single thing wrong with it!

Even more disturbing is the fact that it was obvious that BM was the one filming the video, and it was pretty clear that the girls were extremely uncomfortable with their Stepdad's behavior. And worse, my husband's children never said a single word about that tape, or anything about their Stepdad either. It wasn't until years later we learned that BM and they attended counseling for quite some time after she divorced him! BM of course, denied anything "inappropriate" ever happened with him--as if that videotape wasn't enough! My husband's daughters have denied it as well.

So to answer your question as to whether the BF was out of line? YES! Do his actions make him pedophile material? Possibly, but based on that sole incident, probably not much you can do--yet. Most likely you'll have to bide you time and see how this unfolds.

Best of luck!

IMO by telling you that this happened to her she is asking for your help. She should not be expected to do anything about it. She is depending on you to do that. I agree with getting a third party involved....you should do that now not her. Please don't belabor the issue. Just contact someone. Do it anonymously if you feel that you need to but do it. I always go by the motto that if they are willing to trust you with a little bit of info then it is quite possible that there is a lot that they haven't told you.

A lot of grown women are set back by the advances of creepy men and don't know how to appropriately handle the situation. To expect a child to handle it is absurd. Yes there are things that a child should be taught to say to someone but like I said.....the ball is your court now. Don't drop it.

Helpwiththis,

Please keep us posted. We all feel for this poor girl.

kissing on the lips and smacking her butt is absolutelly inapprpopriate. SD should not go there until the matter is investigated.

I agree wiht kkny that it is really not a girl's job to put stop to this, it is legal authority job.

It's easy to be outraged and say SD shouldn't have to go back there and shouldn't have to be the one to put a stop to this --

But the LAW doesn't work that way!

If there's a custody order and Dad and Help break it by withholding custody -- a.k.a. protecting SD by not making her go there -- then Dad and Help are in contempt of court and a judge very well might order SD to go over anyway. It could also make them appear to be manipulating SD and manufacturing her 'story' just to withhold custody. That happens.

So I'm sorry to say, not letting/making SD go back there is just not a viable suggestion if there's a custody order to the contrary. If there's NOT a custody order spelling out Mom's rights, then absolutely. So is there?

As to asking SD to stand up to BF --
I agree it's hard and unpleasant, and that in a perfect world, she shouldn't have to do that. But if she has to go back there are see BF, and if he tries something 'borderline' or 'over the line' again -- What is she supposed to do? Call for help - Yes. But before that? She needs to be able to tell him "Stop that!" If she can say that, she will feel Empowered; if she can't, she will feel Victimized. Of course saying "No" isn't enough. But not saying "No" is nothing --

I disaagree. She is 13 and has reached out for help. I said it is a tough call if Dad should go to X or CPS first. This is not a peer or stranger harrasing her. Dont put it all on her. Dad does have options, go for emergency order of protection, etc. Go for emergency order saying mom has to be there. Suggest to SD she complain to school or GC.

Sweeby, the reason that there are laws that say that sex between guards and prisoners even if consenting is that the law recognizes that some people are not in a position to say no. To say that Dad can not unilaterally change custody does not mean put it all on SD. At a miminum, he can call mom. Whether he wants to be tactful as Ima suggests, or tell mom he will file charges with police of child endangerment if she continues to leave SD along with SF is up to him.

I would contact CPS or the police or my lawyer....a professional and tell them what has taken place. Contact the school counselor, whom ever you feel that you can speak to and get the opinion of someone that deals with this type of thing. They can tell you what your next step should be.

It would be a shame but I think SD would have the flu or some other contagious aliment the next time that visitation rolls around and she would not go. I would risk a contempt of court issue in the case of possible molestation. That would bring you before the judge and then you could bring it out into the open. Perhaps if BM new what the situation was she would not want to push the visitation order not being honored.

I find it obscene that anyone would suggest sending a child into a situation that could potentially be dangerous or cause them emotional trauma.

My SD33 used to come home from her visitation with her mom and vomit. I told her father that something was going on and he did nothing. I asked her " Has David done something to you? Has he touched you?" She lied and said no. He had threatened to kill her mother or us if she told. I think unless you have been put into that situation you have no idea what you are asking of this girl.

You'll get over the repercussions of not having her go until you have worked out that the BF isn't present much easier than you would get over putting her in harms way. My daughter would not be returning until I felt and she felt comfortable. Period.

If it were my daughter, I would absolutely violate the order and refuse to send her back.

First, I would document the allegation ASAP. Contact CPS, her counselor and/or the police department. There may not be enough to file criminal charges, but they will take an incident report and it will be documented.

Second, I would contact the other parent and inform him/her of the situation and discuss possible solutions. The only acceptable solution would be for the child to never be left alone with this guy. If mom refuses to agree to that, then I would inform her that DD is not visiting again until she is guaranteed to not leave her alone with that guy.

Third, I would file a motion to ask for an order to ensure SD is not left with SD alone and/or reducing visitation. If a visitation is scheduled before a court hearing, I would refuse to send her, unless the police were called and I was forced to release her. (and I probably would not be sitting at home waiting for the police to take her)

I'm not giving any legal advice here, this is just what I would do if it were me in this situation. As a parent, it is my job to protect my daughter and I would take my chances with the court. Yes, the Judge may find that she has to go, after a hearing. But, I couldn't sleep at night if I didn't do EVERYTHING possible to prevent my daughter being placed in a situation where she can be victimized. Given the allegations, I find it hard to believe a court would not order that the daughter is to only be there if the mom is there with her. I guess it could happen but at the very least, I would do everything possible to make that happen.

That is just my 2 cents.

I agree with believer..

As a molest victim/rape survivor, I NEVER told my parents or anyone. The shame and guilt are too great. There is fear of disappointing your parents and guilt... feeling or wondering if it was YOUR fault.

Way too much for a child (or even some adults) to handle. Rape is the least reported crime for a reason. It's significant that this little girl has asked for help by telling someone.

I agree with imaommy. sweeby, i don't care if I would violate some kind of oder. If someone molests my child, i protect my child first. nothing can be as important. so if custody order says minor children should be in the same house with child molesters, i should blindly follow it? i am very surpised sweeby you would say that. didn't expect from you.

exactly, imaommy, the very fact that a little girl told someone is significant and it is huge cry for help. who cares about some court orders at this point.

I can see (and am infavor of) SD "having the flu" to stall for a week or two while investigations occur -- but I'm thinking long term.

What does the custody order say?
Because unilaterally breaking it is more likely to be counter-productive, causing the court to suspect custodial interferance rather than potential for abuse.
The core of our legal system works under the presumption of innocence!
So BF is presumed innocent until proven guilty. And right now, if SD's story is 100% accurate, all he's even 'guilty' of is questionable conduct - not criminal.

Definitely call CPS and the police, and start the ball rolling.
Stall for a few weks if you can -- the Flu, a friend in tow, an outside event that BM can attend with SD...
But be smart about winning the WAR - not just the BATTLE.

"But be smart about winning the WAR - not just the BATTLE."

I understand what Sweeby means. After going through the court system (well, really watching my DH go through it), I have become pretty jaded. Justice does NOT always prevail and the courts do NOT always protect children.

Sweeby is right....what this girl has said happened is AWFUL and it completely sounds like she is telling the truth. I don't doubt her claims at all. BUT so far---the guy has just behaved in a QUESTIONABLE manner, nothing criminal has happened yet.

So, while I am in total favor of protecting this girl, I don't think SM and dad can just say "no more visitation" without some careful planning and perhaps even legal representation.

If they withold visitation, it is possible that they could LOSE their own visitation---and SD will wind up living in her mom's house. How does THAT protect her?

Dad and SM need to document---talk to the police---and talk to CPS and see what their legal options are. Then they need to proceed carefully. A flu or strep throat would go a long way in buying some time....

But they can't just outright DENY visitation, they need to be sneaky about it while getting all their ducks in a row.

It's a shame that that's how the court system works...but in cases like this, it DOES require people to work around it.

The longer dad waits to report what his daughter has disclosed, the less credibility he will have if and when he does. Time is of the essence. It needs to be reported ASAP.

While I personally, would violate the order if I had to, at the same time, I would bring the issue to the court to get an order. If it were possible, I would seek a temporary order to keep the SF from being around SD without BM there. Of course, the best solution is to get BM to agree to not allow SF to be around SD alone. and SD is a teenager that likely, can easily come up with activities or excuses to not go. The courts will likely consider the child's wishes and not usually force a teenager to visit a parent if they don't want to.

Wanted to let you all know dh had a sit down with bm Sat night. Me and SD were out to dinner (on purpose).

BM was very defensive dh said. But in the end she agreed not to leave sd alone with bf again. DH even went as far as telling her we will provide transportation if she has something come up and needs to work or something and needs sd to come home.

So hopefully this is as far as it will need to go. BM rarely sees sd as it is.

This is good news.

Does SD have a cell phone? If not, and I know people here have different views as to age a child can have cell phone, can you get her one that only allows her to call set numbers, such as yours, and 911. Also, I use a "safe" word with my DD. If she says it on the phone, it means come get her no questions asked. We started this so she wouldnt have to sound like a weeney in front of any kids, if people starting doing things she felt uncomfortable with. The last word was milk. As in, you need to pick up milk, I had the last.

Help - Sexual assault (or any kind of abuse) on a step-child is much more common than people think. It's rampant! My cousin, my aunt and my X's niece were all abused by their mother's SO. It's terrible, but look at the facts:

1. A girl is becoming a woman at your SD's age. She's getting breasts, curves and she's starting to make herself look pretty for the boys.

2. A man who is not biologically related to the girl sees this transformation.

3. He is left alone with a young girl that he could quite possibly be attracted to.

To add to all of this, your SD doesn't live with him so he doesn't ever have a chance to develop any kind of parental bond for her. To him, she's just a guest in his home. It's a RECIPE FOR DISASTER!

I know there are a lot of great men out there that would never do anything like that. But, really, is it something that is so unbelievable? If the child were not his wife's child, no one would think twice about him thinking a young girl is attractive. How many men are attracted to young celebrities like Miley Cyrus or even the Olsen twins a few years ago?

IT'S DISGUSTING THE FACINATION MEN HAVE WITH YOUNG GIRLS!

It's all over the news all the time. Some woman's boyfriend went to jail fir molesting her kids and she let it happen because she didn't think it would happen.

No offense to anyone here as I know most of us are proactive with our kids/stepkids, but we, as women, need to see the reality that most men are not these evolved creatures that we see through our rose-colored glasses.

I think it's a good idea for any women with a teenage daughter limit the time our daughters have with any man that's not biologically related.

I've even told this to my BF about his DD's SF. He was way too close to her for years. She would be naked around him, sleep in the same bed with him and BM, and he would spank her. I suggested to my BF that he suggest to BM that they not let their daughter spend much time with him alone. Just too many chances for something to happen or something to be misconstrued.

I hope that's enough Helpwiththis...

You might want to have a talk with the police or school counselor anyway, just to get some documentation on file.
Yes, what he did wasn't criminal.
And yes, Mom said she wouldn't leave them alone together.
But if things ever do need to go further, having this step documented and time-stamped is probably a good idea.
And you might also want to print out this thread also, since your motives have always only been to protect SD.

RE: Is this inappropriate??

YES

I don't know if this is true in all states but recently in a family situation a 13 is legally allowed to say they do not want to visit other parent. As long as the custodial parent stays out of it, does not discourage or prevent child from seeing other parent. The 13 yr old has legal rights.
I agree with Sweeby's last post, report this and have some documentation of this inappropriate action of SD. Hopefully it will never be needed.

There was a case here in Texas, not far from where I live, where a man abducted and beat his GF's kids and even raped and killed the oldest, a girl. He left the younger one (a boy) to die in the woods, but the boy was found wandering around a cemetary, with a skull fracture and barely able to speak.

The man that did it was the common-law husband of the mother of the kids. According to the little boy who survived the attack, the mother heard what was going on but was afraid to come out of her room because she was afraid of what he would do to her.

She was convicted and sentenced to 23 years in prison for failing to protect her children. Below, there is a web address to the story. The girl was repeatedly molested by this terrible man and he even gave her his STD.

Whatever we do we have to protect our kids at all costs!!! Even if this man hadn't murdered this girl, he had already ruined her life by giving her a disease and taking away her innocence.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/slashed.throat.execution.2.846349.html

so true ashley. why wait for this horrors when something needs to be done right now? inform the authority and document it. and yes i would call CPs and police and everyone else. talking to BM is not enough. they will just cover up better.

if some man would smack DD on ner butt or kiss her on the lips at 13, my X would smack him upside his head so bad he would forget his name.

I'm with finedreams;
sexual predators laugh at the befuddled attempts of "decent" people to control them by talking to other people.

Tell the guy to his face, & make sure he believes it, that he will pay a devastating price for even looking at that child.

In fact, I think I'd tell him that he'll pay a devastating price if he doesn't move out of that house within the next 15 minutes.

Step between him & that little girl;
he's a predator who's getting ready to attack.

FD, I dont think my X would ever hit anyone, but his lawyers would be getting a order of protection faster than a speeding bullet. Not that I would ever let anything like this happen. And yes, Ashley girls get older so quickly. And so many young girls look like a younger prettier version of their mom.

"Also, I use a "safe" word with my DD. If she says it on the phone, it means come get her no questions asked. We started this so she wouldnt have to sound like a weeney in front of any kids, if people starting doing things she felt uncomfortable with. The last word was milk. As in, you need to pick up milk, I had the last."

That is a very good idea!

I know, kkny, haha my xhusband isn't violent type either but I think in this type of situation he probably would not control himself. I find it rather strange that helpwiththis's DH does not do enough about it. Is girl still allowed around BF?

"I find it rather strange that helpwiththis's DH does not do enough about it."

My DH is doing as much as he can about it. Him and his ex had a long drawn out custody battle. Part of the reason he got custody was because his ex made ridiculous accusations against him and they were proven false-long story. Also, she was an overreactor in court and had many outbursts. My dh is just trying to keep a level head in all of this and not do anything to jeapordize custody.

He is afraid if he makes a big stink about this instance then it will look as if he is making false accusations and trying to twist an innocent situation. As much as he would love to go kick moms bf's a** he is using self control.

We did purchase sd a cell phone and we have discussed a safe word with her. And as I mentioned bm said she will not be leaving sd alone with her bf again.

We have talked to sd about this and she says that she is comfortable going there again as long as bm is there and she can bring her cell phone. We have even shown her how to send us a text and erase it after it has been sent in case she needs to privately send us a message to come get her instead of calling us and being heard.

As much as we would love to just never have her go there again it is an option that we feel may backfire on us. We love sd dearly and are doing our best to protect her and maintain custody.

On the bright side bm has made no plans to see her in the near future and we have booked up some plans for the next few weekends with sd and her friends as well as family events.