Sloppy seconds??? Offensive on so many levels.... Bringing up her nationality???Racist to be sure.....Called step family forum??? BMs, your children may be a part of a step family, but you are not...You are on the outside looking into a stepfamily...Maybe the forum should be called step mom, step dad forum, so we actually could vent(or whine)with out all the hidden agendas.....I actually came to this site, looking for insight into what I could do to better have a relationship with Sks,and yes vent to someone walking in my shoes, and frankly dont want BMs views, they ARE the cause all the stress in my case ....Some of the BMs make me want to gag with their viewpoints ie, sloppy seconds, the one who is SO SAD evil SM made her EX throw out all his BELOVED SHIRTS!! (give me a Break)to wear UNCOMFORTABLE YUPPIE SHIRTS!!!LOL My DH got rid of all his shirts and went to Hawaain shirts because he felt LIBERATED and FREE!!!!!And they, the ones that still SO MUCH love and care for the EX and the SM doesnt treat him right,(You did DIVORCE this guy, right?????)And EX husbands , you are advised to tell BM you will always love and respect her because she had your children??? Not neccessarily, You are capable of evil , nasty cruel treatment of EX and SM, why should you be loved and respected forever????? Why dont you write a book and call it ...Daddy doesnt love us anymore and its ALL HER FAULT????? And we ll all read it, and you can stop lurking here to validate your junk, jealousy, bitterness and hatred of SMs....Stop spreading your poison to your children and maybe we wont have to come to a website looking for help with the fallout....In the meantime, I ll guess I ll look for a site where YES I can actually WHINE(VENT)trying to resolve the bitterness you ve fostered toward me in your children (without any merit other than yeah, I m a sloppy second)Thank the Lord my DH treats me like a princess and totally gets what you re trying to do and supports me fully.......Good Luck with these beauties.... stepmoms out there!!!!! All the best for your efforts!!!!

Dotz, you make a valid point. We all sometimes want genuine advice and to truly understand different perspectives, and sometimes we all just want to vent. (I know I've taken both approaches already, and I'm pretty new on here!) Maybe this site (the administrator?) *could* set up additional forums. Broken down by, as you said, by family roles (i.e. SM, SK, BM, etc.) for the purposes of venting, and reserving this one (general "stepfamily") for those who are seeking interaction with folks with other perspectives, at least that day.

Let's face it, we're all somehow involved in a stepfamily situation (however one personally chooses to define it or set its parameters), so we're all going to have some anger and some biases that cross paths. I guess it's a question if, on a particular day (or in general), we feel like venting some of that anger full-on or if we feel like finding a peaceable solution. We don't always want a solution or to take the high road. I think we all strive for that, but we can't all be perfectly mature angels all the time.

So maybe we should have additional alternatives depending on what we're looking for on a given day.

Dotz, I agree with you too, but I'm the one that suggested that an exH tell his exW that he loves & respects her for giving him the children. I'm a step mom (BM also to 3) and dealing with a BM that abandoned her child to DH (& me) just a few months ago so we are still adjusting to some of the changes. She has been difficult and sometimes vindictive toward me & although it's upsetting that she doesn't call her daughter, it's a peaceful day for us when the phone doesn't ring. So, it's not that I think she deserves DH's love and respect, but if you love your stepchild, the least you can do is appreciate, perhaps the only good thing she has ever done in her life, in bringing those children into the world for you to love. That's all I meant. We, as women, sacrifice our bodies for the pregnancy and to give birth and if you love the child, you could at least appreciate where they come from. It doesn't mean the exH should worship her and bow to her demands. If he felt that way, he would have stayed married to her.

(and I guess in cases where she drank, smoked or did drugs while pregnant, I'd just be thankful for the baby but in most cases, there was a relationship and love between the parents when the children were born and that part should be respected.)

Oh, where to begin. First, I want to be clear that the SMs behavior, and the BFs complicit acceptance of it is what angered the CPS workers and the judge - which is what led to the severance of his vistation rights. You can say all you want about "biomoms" but the facts in this case are simply not in their favor. By anyone's measure.

Exhibit A: She slapped him so hard in the face for leaving a towel on the bathroom floor that she knocked him to the ground and left marks. Exhibit B: She threw a plate across the kitchen and broke it because he did not finish his "dinner," which was a frozen dinner that was still half frozen when she gave it to him.

Even with these facts at hand, many of you will still resort to "blaming the kid" or his BM for "spoiling" him - which most of you typically do without solid facts or evidence to support your argument, other than you "don't like her." Well, of course you don't. She's the ex and the mother of his children - she's been to the well already, so to speak and obviously it didn't work out for a reason. And you're invested in shifting blame and demonizing her because it simply won't do to actually put the responsibility on the BF for his own failings as a father. Your economic and social status depends on it. Look, it's not rocket science.

BM's also doing most of the heavylifting raising these kids while you *itch about your piddly, bare-minimum three days a month, two weeks a year, one visit a month or whatever and you STILL can't get past your own stupid B.S. and accept the fact that HE'S GOT CHILDREN THAT YOU AGREED TO TAKE ON WHEN YOU SIGNED THE MARRIAGE LICENSE.

To those of you who will undoubtedly find a way to blame the stepchild(ren) and their mothers in your own lives, I would say that you're simply justifying your own poor behavior. "But she's sloppy, he's lazy, disrespectful, ungrateful... yada, yada, yada, whatever." We've all heard it before. Kids are ungrateful and sloppy - well there's a newsflash, Einstein. Big deal.

Secondly, take an honest look at what many SMs on the previous posts and other websites have to say about their little stepdarlings: "I can't stand my stepson," "Just his very existence is what is bothersome." "I dread the weekends when she comes over." "I don't know what it is about her that I can't stand." "I blame it all on her Bio mom." "She acts just like her mother." "I just want them to go away, is that bad?" "I just want to be with him and my own kids."

And my personal favorite: "I just want the fairytale." LOL. I think that's SO funny when you consider that Cinderella was living with her STEPmother and her two horrible daughters. So the question then becomes, just exactly WHICH side of that fairytale do you want to be on? Because I can asure you, honey, that you're not Cinderella.

That, ladies is priceless. And it's an important question. Look, the Internet is chock full of SMs running around complaining and moaning about their stepkids and their BMs. But it's the children who suffer from the fallout from the adults around them.

I would also venture a tea-leaf guess: to those of you high-minded gals that are SOOO sure that these rotten stepchildren of yours are being brainwashed and ruined by their mothers while their poor put-upon Father is simply a victim while you're just a helpless consort, I think you should be aware that the divorce rate for Second Marriages hovers at over 80 PERCENT. EIGHTY. PERCENT.

So it is highly, highly likely - ALMOST PROBABLE - that you will someday find yourselves divorced and shuttling your own children with this man back and forth and dealing with lawyers and judges and visitation and exs and former in-laws and horrible holidays and crappy new girlfriends.

And you'll be right back here *itching and moaning about your ex and the fact that he is engaging in the same behaviors that got him in to this fix to begin with ALL OVER AGAIN.

So, I'm going back to my original declarative statement. If being a stepparent is SOOOO horrible and if the kids are SOOOO rotten and their mother is SOOOO crazy...

Then get out. Grow up. Or move on.

okay , okay, I admit it.

I am one of those horrible second wives, who pointedly suggested to hubby that he throw out the slogan tee shirts while we were dating.

:D

Most of us .... live with our SC full-time and mom has visitation .... from very sparce visitation to a set schedule. And as long as we accompany mom's every whim things go just fine. But the minute something "extra" has to be asked of mom its a battle...

Where was Cinderella's dad?

Why didn't he stand up to the "Evil SM"?

Exactly. Where was Cinderella's DAD? Of course, he was out getting laid while the Evil SM and her two ugly daughter's were left to deal with his absence and his "baggage" (Cinderella.)

I think Fairy Godmother should find him and kick his *ss.

I've been the single mother raising my daughter alone and I've been the stepchild. I can tell you I wasn't a nice stepchild. It's a strained relationship & I tried to make my stepparents life miserable. I wasn't going to be controlled, I didn't like anyone my parents were with, & I did get physical with them. I didn't blame my parents....I blamed the steps(I found their very being repulsive). Now, after many years of life maturing me & much understanding....I love my SD. He is very good to my mom. My Dad...he's decided to do life solo. I really wish he had someone to share his life with now. I think many stepchildren will also mature & find that if the step parent is good to the parent....that's a wonderful thing to have. Unfortunately, there will be selfish skids just as there are selfish biological kids. Also as a BM, I kissed the steps my X's girlfriend walked on. She was only 18 when my X met her but she was very kind. I knew she would be spending time with my daughter. She also had a 2 year old son. I took to him too. She was very pretty & I told her this & told her what a good mom I thought she was..especially for being so young. She isn't with X anylonger but has gotten her degree & turned out great. She's now 30. This definetly didn't happen with my DH's ex. She is horrible & I will discuss it here. You need to look up the definition of whining. It's audible. It's sound. Growing up & moving on is what I did & that's why I'm now a good stepdaughter. I commend these women who take on this role, it's a thankless job much of the time. Did this woman who was physically violent to your son get charged with anything? I would have wanted to kick her a** but I wouldn't take it out on these SM's. You should be giving them encouragement & advice....in hopes of making it easier for all involved in the lives of children. Disrespect & anger breed disrespect and anger. Don't you want your son in a better world than that?

GGG....I m sure NOBODY here advocates hitting a child, step, bio or foster , whatever, but your anger and resentment are dripping thru your post...You are shouldering all the child rearing, while Hub gets to skate off into the sunset into his new life...Why dont you PAY us CS to do that if its too much for you to handle, and you can visit 3 days a month....Dont you think that some dads would love the comfort of having and raising his child in his home if he could, for the privledge of seeing them and being involved every day if the court see that they are both equally fit parents? Custody is more often skewed in the BMs favor, I ll bet you yourself fought tooth and nail to make sure you had full custody and ample Child support and visitation that suited you not Dad....Sounds like your EX was a rat Bast***D, a cheater, maybe not involved...And you are wishing our marriages will fail, and that will prove you the VICTOR how???? You are still angry with Dad, it bleeds thru your post....For sure, some of your children are making our lives more difficult than they have to be, but sounds like you are the one that needs to grow up and move on...Kathline...LOVE the shirt remark......

Guess Cinderella's mom should have chosen a better man to have children with.... she must be rolling in her grave!!!!

Okay, so I thought I was going to stay out of this one but...

First of all I think I can safely say that not one of the women or men (since we do have the occasional guy) on this board would cadone or even try to justify ANYONE slapping a child so hard in the face that they fell to the ground or throwing a plate across the room for not eating their food. And I would further point out that almost all of the responses that you have gotten to your very one sided angry and quite frankly highly insulting rant about SMs in general has been to console you on what must have been a very difficult and very tragic happening in your life and that of your child. Personally, I would blame not only the stepmother but more so the father for allowing anyone in his child's life that wouldnt treat his children like gold. And further for not walking away from that person the very moment that person abused his child. That my dear is far worse in my opinion.

And, I as with the other SMs on this board come here for advise on how to handle the oh so many difficult situations that come up with blended/step families, and to pour out our feelings of frustration only to find out hey it is normal to get frustrated. And, most of us are in a position of raising our SKids with little or no help from the BM... which is not something most of us signed up for but have accepted graciously and with all of it rewards and complications. Not, one of us has ever deemed to say that we are perfect as I would hope that no parent would ever attempt to claim. We have all made our mistakes but this is exactly why we are here...to bounce ideas off of one another and to find the best possible path. I can not personally vouch for other websites since this is the only one that I have been to that people actually respond.. but the women on here are not the stepmothers you describe. And, there have been many times that the women on this board sm and bm alike have jumped on someone who stated "they hate their stepchildren" "they wish they didnt exist" and so on. Our advice being... get out of the relationship then the children do not deserve it. Maybe they should not have been jumped on but it goes to futher disprove your completely unjustified description of step moms in general.

I know that I spend everyday of my life working to improve my childrens lives in general. And it is silly to assume that Sm's stay with their husbands for social or financial status. I know I myself would be much better off financially if it were just me and my daughter. What I do is out of love for my family (skids included).

And calling us sloppy seconds (which is a laugh in so many ways in my situation) and spouting statistics like 80% of second marriages fail does little to validate your point. My repsonse would be really...have you ever heard the 90%of statistics are made up on the spot?? And I personally, never make decisions based upon statistics...I follow my heart and what is right. Even if you told me there was a 100% chance of my relationship failing I would say... I am sorry but that is not what my heart says and I have to stay true to it and myself.

And, on a side note... I am one of those second wives that had to change up the wardrobe a little..I had to let DH know that socks pulled up to the knees when wearing shorts...so not cool..I threw out all of those socks and got the low cut kind... :-)

Dearest Garden Girl, it appears you have narrowmindedly chosen to read only those posts that support your venom. Have you read any from the multiple step moms who are married to the custodial father and care for their skids on a daily basis? Perhaps you chose to overlook the posts regarding the biomoms who have abandoned their kids, or those who lost custody of their kids due to their own poor choices and behaviors. How about the moms allow their new boyfriends/husbands to mistreat their children because the man becomes their priority? Where are your righteous comments about these "BM's also doing most of the heavylifting raising these kids."??? Oh wait - guess you can't really support that speculation with fact now, can you?

You are not the center of the universe. Your experiences do not create the norm. Your self-absorbed hate, however, does create a pretty clear picture as to why some women can be a total nightmare to deal with, birth mom or not. It's not your place in the marital ladder that makes you a bi#*h. YOU make you one.

Perhaps you should do a little more reading before getting up on your "I am right and the world is wrong" soapbox again. You just make yourself sound more unexperienced, small minded and obsesive each time you write. A shame.

I keep hearing that and it is not true. I had no idea what I was getting into when I married my husband. I whined and moan about it for years, to my family and my closest friends. They listened and it was therapy for me. In my opinion that is what this forum is about, venting and visiting with others in a similar situation, maybe learning something from others about handling it. I had no idea how hurtful the situation could be or I would not have married into it.

Didn't Cinderella's dad die? I thought the evil step mom killed (poisoned( him.... or he got sick & died? Walt Disney must have hated step mom's. If you look at the underlying messages in many of his movies, it's quite disturbing. Not anything I would call a fairytale, unless you're depraved.

actually, i always thought it interesting that Many of the characters didnt have a mom.. cinderella, pocahontas, snow white, little mermaid, belle, jasmin, lilo... and many other lost their dad or both parents, tarzan, the aristocats, bambi(lost mom), lion king... its odd when you think about it.

and yes cinderella's dad died

Well said jonesy. When I married my dh I knew he had sole custody of his 3 children and I would be helping raise them. I knew that my son would go from only child to one of 4 children and it would take work. What I did not expect was all the drama his exwife would try to create. I did not know that making my child feel "included" with my dh's kids would have been so much work. (though now they all get along as if they were real brothers and sisters) I did not know at the time that my dh's ex would move so far away from her children and have more kids and make my skids feel so unimportant to her. I did not know that I would want to cry after hearing from my skids about things that happened on their few weeks with their mother last summer. I did not know that I would cry after seeing my sd bawl her eyes out over a picture her mom sent her with her new kids, and hear my sd say that her mom has a "happy" family now and does not need her or her siblings. Who would have known these things would happen! But, in life we never know what to expect. You just go with it and try to make the best of it all.

Being a stepmom has been difficult at times, but joyful most of the time. If I could go back in time I would do nothing differently. I love my dh and my skids. I would never hurt any of them. Not all sm's are the same as the one in your case, or the same as Cinderellas. I think this forum is an excellent place for sm's to come and talk about their lives. In my friends and family I do not have anyone in the same situation I am in, but on here I do. It is nice to come on here and give and get advice or to just let it all out. If you do not like the sm's on here your free to leave and go to another forum.

Mom2emall..Well said, as I said in an earlier post, I came here for help and advice, not to get banged on and insulted by the very people that happen to be causing my particular pain....Start your own.... I m a bitter EX and proud of it and wont quit til I try to screw up your (fill in the blank) marriage, relationship, your relationship with my kid, et al...... And who said on the thread, I wanted a fairy tale to begin with, I missed that, and would like to go back and read that post.....

When I met my DH, his ex seemed very involved. In fact, we met on an internet dating service that he stated, "I'm not looking for a mother for my child, she has one." and on our first date, he talked of how great they got along. It was a plus for him because every guy that I had dated previously that talked bad about his ex, I never saw again. I absolutely did not want to deal with court battles or drama of any sort.

For the first year or so, she was very nice to me. Their arrangement was each had alternating weeks. They did seem to get along great but I started noticing that she would often call him and ask him to keep their daughter a couple extra days or get her a couple of days early (always on the weekends) but I didn't think it was a big deal. That was, until the first time he asked her to keep her on a weekend that we wanted to take a trip. She said no. Okay, we canceled our trip (or rescheduled for a weekend she was with her mom) and when her mom found out it was rescheduled, she tried to get him to take his daughter on that (her) weekend and that was the only time I've ever heard him say no to taking her more time. I also noticed that she never made up any of the time she asked him to keep their daughter. But, she was the one involved in her school (says she was PTA president, which we later found out was a lie) and took tae kwon do lessons together with her and from outward appearances, she looked like a great mom... almost 'super' mom. There were some problems when we got engaged and he moved in with me but I didn't think it was too serious. After we got married, her problems with me escalated but she was still taking care of her daughter 50% of the time.

A year after we married, she met her new BF and gave up physical custody to DH and then I was thrust into the role of full time step mom. I wasn't asked or informed. She moved without even telling us anything. So, no I didn't know what I was getting into when I married him. I thought his daughter had a stable & responsible mom and then she pulled the rug out from under us. Even so, I love kids and have done all I can to make the situation easier for SD. I cried every time I was alone for the first two weeks because I knew how much it was hurting her daughter. I couldn't imagine a mother leaving her child like that. I understood the gravity of it but my step daughter didn't. She also cried but I couldn't cry in front of her. I had to be strong and take her to counseling and comfort her and try to help her adjust to a new life. And for that, I get treated like crap from my step daughter because she misses her mom and sees me as the person keeping her from her mom. She doesn't want to blame her dad so I get the brunt of it. Do I hate her or resent her? Not at all. I resent her mother for putting her through this and no, I don't think all bio moms are this way. I think most of us biomoms love our children and would lay down our lives for our children, but it shocked the hell out of me that there are biomom's that can walk away. I've seen it more than once and it never shocks me any less when another mom leaves her kids. Sure, I know dads do it too and it's just as bad. But a Mother's love to me, is stronger because we carry our children inside of us. We feel them flutter and kick. We birth them and breastfeed and take care of their every need for the first part of their life. I'm sure some dads are more involved than others but most are likely working to provide while the mom cares for her baby. My step daughter's mom has never worked and prided herself on being a SAHM. Surely, she spent more time with her daughter than my husband that was at work. I don't really understand how she can leave (both of her daughters) for a guy she only had known a couple of weeks.

Let's face it ladies, this woman is so angry about what happened that she will see no other way but hers and she just wants to blame someone. That's why she's here. She doesn't see where we are asking for advice about our menus, or asking for opinions on varying things that have absolutely nothing to do with complaining about our children.

I can understand her anger. I'd be p!ssed too just like any single one of us would. I can't imagine smacking my SD around, the thought is absolutely strange to me, not only because she's bigger than I am (taller and weighs more), but because it's strange to me why anyone would want to smack their children around. A swat on the rump is one thing when they're babies and learning, but you can't yank an 11 year old boy (my son) up and bust their butt for an offense. Sorry it doesn't work like that.

Like I said, I understand the anger, I just don't understand the hate behind the anger. Chances are if she met us on the street, didn't know our home life, and talked to us for a while, we'd walk out friends, but her hate blinds her. It's very similar to racism, only towards step moms.

She doesn't realize is what kind of hearts you all have. I sincerely enjoy logging on daily and reading the messages that we all share and responding with my opinions. What we have is a community of women with big hearts who want to do the best for their kids: SK's, BK's, & FBK's. If she can't see that, it's her problem, it's not mine. I refuse to let her racism towards SM's mess up my day or cause me to waste precious energy telling her how the cow ate the cabbage and all about my situation at home. It's none of her business and since she just wants to use it against us anyways, eh. To hell with her.

I realize what the problem was now - I treated my exH like an equal partner, not like my seventh child. I was more concerned with what he wanted to wear, to do, to eat, than what I thought he should be doing. It never would have occurred to me to tell or even ask him to throw out his clothing, or gifts from his first wife, etc.

Apparently most of the women here not only were not looking for the Alpha males of romance novels, but also not for equal partners. They are looking for, or at least treating their husbands as if they were, the omega males of sitcoms. I was shocked when I read on this board that many of the husbands are incapable of managing money. I didn't think anyone over 10 would even consider using a debit card when they knew there was no money in the bank. But I suppose if they aren't grown-up enough to handle a debit card, perhaps they aren't grown-up enough to choose their own clothes or know when to come in out of the rain.

Having a husband that's not so great with money is not tantamount to marrying a child. Many people are not so smart with their money, either because they weren't raised to be or their wants just outweigh their means and they deal with that improperly. It's obvious the number of adults that get in over their head with money from the foreclosure crisis right now.

Me, if my checkbook's off a penny when I balance it, I'm looking for my penny, but I've never seen my husband balance his checkbook. I think in many relationships either the wife or husband is just plain better with money so that's the person who handles most of it. What's the problem with that?

It's the same as any other aspect of day-to-day life in a marriage that people learn to deal with in the way that suits them best. For example, I hate yardwork, but my husband is a landscaper, so he does ALL of the yardwork. Does that mean I'm too much of a child to use a lawn mower? No. He's just good at it, and I let him do it. He's awful at laundry, so I do the laundry, (and when his underwear have holes in them, I throw them out, even though I know he probably wouldn't have:)

Relationships are give and take, and it sounds as if TOS's relationship with her exH was give, give, give, and he seems to have done all the taking. I don't know that I'd like that too much, and it obviously didn't work out too well for her.

On a funny side note, in the summer when it rains and my husband can't mow his lawns, he grabs a raincoat and goes fishing, so I guess he's too immature to know when to come in out of the rain too:)

I am not very good with finances and anything what goes with finances. I mean i work hard, but I am plain stupid when it comes to investments, keeping in budget, balancing etc. It doesn't mean i am a child, it just means that this is the area where i am not good at. So what? Nobody should ever marry me? I am good at other stuff.

The post from tos could not be more hilarious.... I am assuming she is referring to the few of us that joked about tossing out our DH's clothes or in my case socks... And describing my husband as anything but an alpha male is ridiculously funny. Ofcourse, one small exert from an incredibly long post is picked out as the prime example of why our husbands are little more than children. I mean it couldnt be my husbands total lack of fashion sense and the reason why I as a chick go shopping with him for clothes because he has no idea the difference between boot cut jeans and relaxed fit jeans much less which style will suit his body type... I am sure that knowing this would suddenly classify him as an adult capable of making grown up decisions but since he doesn't ..I suppose. But, then again just the other day it was pouring rain outside and I decided to take the kids out and play in the rain... so since I don't know to come in out of the rain either...I guess it's a whole house full of children.

"I was more concerned with what he wanted to wear, to do, to eat, than what I thought he should be doing."

What the heck does this mean because it sounds to me like you DID treat him like a 7th child. If he was equal, why would you be concerned about those things if he's a capable adult?

My husband is excellent at keeping house, doing yard work, fixing things, managing money, and even does his & his daughter's laundry. (he'll throw away a sock if it starts to get a hole) So, he's hardly a child. However, he couldn't cook to save his life, he thinks slaving over the stove is a box of hamburger helper. and fashion sense? He works for a dealership and almost every shirt he owns has the Chevy bow tie on it.... except the few shirts I bought him and he only wears those when we go on vacation.

I'm confused though, TOS. Is your exH an Alpha male or an Omega male? After all, he's under his wife's thumb and money... does that mean he didn't manage his own very well? Perhaps he's more of a child than you realize.

BF gave up on himself last years of his marriage to X. He literally bought no clothes, his clothes was ill fitted and plain in a bad condition and not appropriate for any kind of situations. He never had any suit or any dress- up clothes because they never went anywhere last 15-20 years of marriage. Well she did with TOMs and TOWs lol. Not him. And X looks like she didn't care of apperance either. So no wonder his clothes was ugly.

He had to buy a suit for few special occasions and some other decent clothes so we can show up on public. Plus he has no family here, but I have mine and we do have get togethers and parties here and there. He simply had to buy nicer clothes to not embarass me around friends or family. It was his words very soon after we met: i cannot dress up like this to embarass you, please help me shop for clothes.

I know I am not a wife, but maybe new wives do have to help guys with clothes because guys didn't care about their apperance in their previous relationships. Usually when marriage starts falling apart people don't care how they look. I remember myself and my X shortly before separation. Not a pretty picture. Sometimes warddrobe or new hair style manifests a new beginning.

My BF was married 22 years and did not know how to handle money when he divorced (this according to what he told me, I was not around to see). His wife had always done it. In retrospect he does not think this was an acceptable situation; here you had a middle-aged man with grown children who did not know how to pay bills what things cost how to budget, nor did he really know how his family's money was being spent; it sounds ridiculous but apparently true, and this is a perfectly responsible intelligent grown man, held down jobs supported his family had been in the military, etc. Yes, he learned but what if rather than get divorced when his kids were nearly grown, his wife had died when the kids were young or become seriously ill or whatever and he had to handle family finances with three young children and no knowledge of what to do. It's one thing to help each other out with things the other is not so good at or would prefer not to do, but everyone should be minimally capable of handling basic necessary life skills (what bills need to be paid, how much things cost, how to budget, how to keep your house and car from falling apart, how to feed yourself, how to take care of the kids) with not too steep of a learning curve; you really never know what life will throw at you. And some people really aren't, which can be difficult to understand for people (like me) who've always known everyone around them to be personally competent and basic skills. I have a grandmother who never learned to drive (perfectly competent adult in every other way), and we are talking someone who lived on a farm, not a city girl with public transportation and taxis and whatever that could be used in an emergency.

It is one thing to say I'm not very good with finances or my husband has no fashion sense or can't cook. It is another if you don't know how to pay your bills or what is acceptable to wear to your job or how to grocery shop. It is a matter of degree, and really it can be difficult to tell from one sentence written on the internet "I handle the bills, my husband doesn't worry about it" if someone just means they are the one who physically takes the time to send the money to gas company while hubby is mowing the lawn, or if husband really doesn't know anything about what bills they have or where the money goes. It can mean either, and one makes perfect sense and the other really sounds problematic.

Unrelated comments about guys and fashion style.

My dad always had good fashion sense but as he started getting older something really weird is going on. Both me and my mom think that he is so desperatlly doesn't want to get old that he buys this weird looking clothes. At my mom's bd party he was wearing bright green aligator skin shiny pointy toe shoes. I mean i am serious. He is 70, still works full time-engineer, looks very well and young, is a in a great shape, plays tennis and wins championships in his age category, but bright green aligator shoes???? more so he demonstrated it to everybody at the party. Ouch. Ouch.

And my BF bought tall cowboy boots, he is not a cowboy style man, he can't wear them no where-certainly not to work, he looks ridicilous in them, he looks like in a Halloween party. But he looks at them standing by the wall and looks happy. Midlife life crisis? hahaha

exactly FD!! When I met DH his clothes were illfitting... old and really looked liked they had been purchased back in the 80's... I don't judge by a persons appearance but I think it is important to keep up your own image and self. I think looking nice and dressing nice effects the attitude... Getting nice, properly fitting clothes can do wonders for someone's self esteem and I was more than happy to go shopping with DH when we first met and we still shop together...

When you are so hung up in a bad situation for an extended period of time...sometimes you forget to take care of yourself.

My SIL cannot do antyhing by herself, doesn't know how to pay bills and what bills have to be paid, where is the bank etc. She knows nothing. It is all on my brother. i don't know what would happen if something happens to my brother. They would be in a big trouble.

As far as the wardrobe thing, people like to please their partners with their appearance, what's wrong with that? I'm perfectly capable of selecting a flattering hairstyle for myself, but I know my BF likes my hair long, so guess what I'm humoring him and letting it grow. I wouldn't dream of telling him how to dress (he dresses himself better than I would, in fact I'm tempted to let him loose on my wardrobe) but if he decided one day to say grow a beard, I might mention that I prefer to be able to see his face :).

that's kind of funny... DH and I have an ongoing deal.. he doesn't shave his goatee (sp?) and I don't cut my hair short. It works I ..love his goatee and he loves long hair. :-)

Quirk, it *is* a good idea to get at least a rudimentary grasp on the parts of life we aren't good at or don't enjoy.

When my aunt's husband died (in 1972 so we're not talking pre-WWI farm wife here), my mother had to take her to the bank to put her signature on the signature card & to the grocery store where she showed her how to write a check.

For nearly a year afterward, my aunt got little "surprises" in the mail, as statements came in from banks where she didn't know they had an account, investments she didn't know about, etc.

Who knows if she ever collected on all the life insurance?
She didn't know if there were policies, safe deposit boxes, nothing!

FD, maybe your father really does know he's old & he can get away with anything he wants!

ima,

No, I didn't treat him like a child. That was the point of my post. I didn't decide for him what he liked to eat or wear or do. If I were buying a present for him, I tried to buy something he actually liked, not something that I wanted him to have. If I were grocery shopping, I wouldn't buy the sauce with mushroooms in it because I like them and for some reason thought it would benefit him to learn to like them too.

Quirk is right. Everyone should have a basic knowledge of finances and other essential skills. There was a post awhile back in which several posters described how their husbands did not have even rudimentary knowledge of budgeting. In one case the bank had threatened the guy with being arrested for fraud if he bounced one more check, and more than one poster had taken away her husband's ATM card.

My exH did quite a lot, in areas such as home repair, cooking, etc. I think it was a pretty equal partnership.

I don't think my exH was either an alpha or an omega male. He seems like the latter now, but since he will apparently do anything for financial security (well, I'm sure there are lots of illegal things he wouldn't do) it is a little hard to tell whether he is just acting the part of an omega male.

To be honest, I didnt even read past the 'sloppy seconds'. Talk about driving your audience away from the getgo! In my humble opinion, given the level of anger and hostility displayed by this BM, she stands a good chance of doing nearly as much damage to her son as his Dad and SM! Some anger managment counseling would be GREATLY beneficial for her, both for her sake and her son's.

LOL! I couldn't agree with you more! I'm sure she displays some of the "symptoms" from Ima's checklist in another post. Hmmm... anger management, what a novel idea!

What I find interesting is that many people (not everyone) assumes that the divorce occured because the husband was unfaithful (of course that happens) and remarried the woman he had an affair with...so I'm sure many of the women here who do not fall into that category find that reference offensive... DH and I were both divorced long before we began to date and I don't consider him sloppy seconds. He married his girlfriend when she "accidentally" got pregnant, supported her, and did his best to make it work. They got divorced after she revealed that she was leaving him for a man she had been seeing for several months. He was relieved as he would have stayed with her for life. What I find remarkable is this gal got what she wanted and she is still unhappy so I suppose sometimes the BM has to Grow Up and Move On.

To the original poster of this--To act as if every SM hates her SKIDS is totally not true. My fiance (now ex-fiance) and I lived to together with his 6 yr old twins EOW for about 6 months and then to full time about a month ago or so. I was not legally their SM but played the role of the SM. BM is running from the law right now and has pretty much abandoned the kids. I did not go into the relationship thinking that one day I would have to act as "mommy" to twins because their own mom would skip town. My ex-fiance and me now have been together almost 3 years and within the last month or so was told that he will have the kids full time now. That was a big shock to me and my whole life has been turned upside. Everything has changed now. It has caused major stress between me and ex-fiance. He moved out this past weekend because things were getting too stressful for me. We are going to try and work on things but his kids can be out of control sometimes and that is more than I bargained for. So....if I whine about it...it is because I didn't ask for this. True...I knew he had kids going into the relationship however he never let on for a long time how bad his ex-wife was and that there was a chance he may get the kids full time one day. He let me in on that information after we moved in together.

His kids are typical kids I guess but the constant whining from them and fighting and crying over who takes a shower first, who brushes their teeth first and who daddy is going to carry to bed first and getting into things that they know they are not supposed to get into....have driven me to the point where I decided we can't live together if he is going to have them full time. They require every minute of their daddy's time....I started to feel like I didn't fit in the picture anymore.

I have never been bad to the kids when I have been around them depsite how I feel about them. I have never even let on to them that they are driving me nuts. Afterall I know they are just kids and have no idea where their mom is and why she left them. I have decided though that I am not the right person to take on helping to raise them.

So...of course I may whine about it. I feel like due to the drama that BM has created and the behavioral issues from the twins that have been thrown on me and changed my entire relationship with ex-fiance....I am little upset! If I had known it was going to be this way I never would have gotten involved and now I am emotionally attached to ex-fiance and have to face the fact that our relationship will never be the same again.

Bookworm,
I have twin almost 2 yearold boys. They are unbelievably busy, requiring constant attention. If I don't keep their minds occupied, they will dismantle my home. They are good little boys but so darn busy & that is stressful. I feel for you & sorry you've been put in that situation. The little guys are probably also dealing with alot of emotions if their mom just up & left. Poor litte guys. They're probably tyrants but you gotta feel sorry for the situation they're in.
The gardengirl person who started this thread is full of hostility. Maybe she doesn't realize it, she's probably been sloppyseconds numerous times.

mistihayes....your right they require constant attention. The twins are boy and girl and they always seem to be in competition with each other about everything. I understand that it is normal for twins or just siblings period...but I didn't expect it to be so difficult...I didn't even expect to have to be helping to raise them. I love their dad but feel like nothing is the same anymore. He is stressed out a lot trying to handle them and stays busy all the time between work and taking care of them. I have told him I would rather walk away and him build his relationship with his kids than stick around and let my anxiety trickle down to him and the kids. I do feel for his kids but I also have a daughter of my own and I have had major problems with her Dad keeping her from me and destroying my relationship with her. I know that I can not focus so much of my attention to my ex-fiances kids when I need to work on things with my own child. I know his kids are going through a lot and I hate that their mom is doing this to them but at the same time even though my daughter is pushing me away I think she misses me too and I know that I have to be a mom to her first before I can to anyone else's kids. It's tough though trying to handle them and missing my own child at the same time.

I just feel like BM's (Such as the one who started this thread) assume that all SM's are going to hate the SKIDS. I don't hate then but yes they stress me out. They are kids. In my case it is the BM that doesn't care about them.

I definitely think we all need to bear in mind important differences between SP's who have custody and/or are really engaged and in the trenches with the kids very often, in contrast with those who don't. When you're day-to-day raising kids, it's a ton of stress no matter if they're biologically yours or not. It's a huge repsonsibility that I have tremendous respect for (so much so that I know I'm not ready yet to have kids myself). I think it's normal to have occasional thoughts that approach "hate" (rage, frustration...) when you're exhausted day after day and frustrated/scared because you feel you've tried everything and have no idea how things can improve... While I maintan that it's important to try with all your might to rise above it and keep anything approaching "hate" out of your real decisions/actions towrd the kids... I also understand how challenging and even scary it can be to be a day-to-day parent. I have a lot more empathy for what the custodial SP's (or even EOW SP's) go through than SP's who only have to deal with the kids, like, 2 weeks out of a year and feel hate, etc. Frankly, I think if I was a custodial or EOW SP it might be hard not to resent hearing the complaints from the infrequent SP's.

Serenity, you make a good point. When I hear another SP complain, my first thought is 'you knew the kids existed' but it's all in what they are complaining about and like you said, how much time they spend. I have gotten frustrated with SD because she does side with her mom and ignores me or treats me with disrespect on behalf of her mom. It hurts and if I don't put it in perspective that this is a child and she's doing what comes naturally, protecting her mom, then it would be easier to 'hate' or feel angry toward her. But, she is a child. I have to keep telling myself that. At least with my own kids, I get to do things the way I think it should be done, with my step child, I sometimes have to go against my better judgment and do things the way her parents want it done. That's sometimes hard too.

"When you're day-to-day raising kids, it's a ton of stress no matter if they're biologically yours or not."

This is so true and I didn't realize until we had full custody of SD that it is even HARDER to raise a step child full time because with your own kids, you don't have to deal with a non custodial mother that feels she has the right to dictate how her child should be raised, even though she isn't the one raising her. And as a mother, I know that if my kids had lived with their dad, I would want to have input in how the kids are raised, so I'm not faulting a mom for feeling that. But, it does make it harder on the step mom. and I say mom instead of parent in this because I don't think as many non custodial fathers want to be decision makers in their children's lives the way the mothers do. I'm sure there are some so I'm not putting down fathers but even in intact families, many fathers let the women raise the children. I think women are more territorial of their children (and I'm not criticizing that, just pointing it out)

and I know I should probably let this go, but the OP uses the phrase 'sloppy seconds' in reference to step moms? Wouldn't the exH be the sloppy seconds if she had him first? It's bad enough to use a derogatory phrase like that to insult people, but if you are going to do so, at least know what it means.

I agree with you all, raising kids is tough but very rewarding. I had a SO w/ 2 children. These 2 kids were so precious. I took to them immediately & stayed w/ their Dad for several years. He had full custody & they saw their BM once in the 3 years we lived together. The little boy, Josh, loved his Mom dearly. I could tell when she came over the one time I met her. He squeezed her so tight. I hurt for him. The BM seemed really nice too, just not in a good place in her life. I commend most step & biological parents on this site & anyone who offers good advice. They are trying, looking for information to help the situation they're in.

Did you actually say "sloppy seconds"? Wow. That's really a little bit insulting. It is really hard being the parent who steps in to the sloppy mess left over by a cruddy first marriage sometimes too. I knew what I was in for but because I loves my boyfriend and fell equally in love with his kids I took it on. "Sloppy seconds" is a very underminded way to refer to your ex and children. The statement would include your children since they are in fact part of "baggage" you speak of. It comes off as cold towards them, not the new step mother.

This sounds like a classic case of parental alientation. Bad mouthing parents act superior. They put down the other parent in order to convince themselves they are the better parent and more deserving of love.

Such parents fail to appreciate the bad mouthing and bashing they use to bolster their own image as parents accomplishes the exact opposite. It demonstrates for all to see a severe parental deficiency: the willingness to sacrifice their children's needs in order to feed their own weak ego.

Sometimes a child's fear is so great and so emphatic that clear evidence of brainwashing is not enough to erase a measure of doubt about the target's parenting abilities.

When allegations of gross mistreatment or abuse are raised, the judge may decide it is better to err on the side of caution and restricts the child's contact with the estranged parent. In the interests of protecting the child from harm, the court inadvertently joins in emotional abuse by depriving the child of a loving relationship with one of their parents.

Geez it is awfully too bad CPS couldn't see the venom and hate you have shown here. You sound completely irrational and full of hate to me. And it is quite likely your little boy heard you call his stepmother "sloppy seconds" and that is likely the least of the poison you put in his ear.

You wicked, wicked woman.

Cinderella actually originated in China.

Actually Cinderella stories exist in numerous cultures and most likely developed independently.

GGG,

I think you are an internet troll who is just looking to stir up trouble because you feel unjustified and unhappy in your own life.

I think it is you who needs to get out, grow up and move on.

- Midwest Mommy

Now, for your assignment. TOS. You are to write your own version of Cinderella and parental alienation. You can set the story in any setting (time and place) that you like. It can be Auburn High School this year, the ghetto in the 1980s, the Australian Outback during the summer, on the Titanic in the early 1900s ... anything!

Be sure to follow the standard fairy tale conventions, like starting with a line similar to "Once upon a time..." and ending with a line similar to "And they lived happily ever after." In the story, use your creativity, but remember to keep your content and language appropriate.

GOOD LUCK;)

I had to have a smile at this. Sloppy seconds? Ummmm GG is up on a pedestal we ask? Perhaps she is no longer a "Yummy mummy?"

Colleen, a modern cinderella story? They all start with Once upon a time, but very rarely end with Happy ever after. I'm still waiting for mine!

I know this post started a while ago. However, I had to post because it's so ridiculous. I actually am new here but I got angry when I read this. I wonder if this original poster, has gotten remarried or will remarry. If so, good luck if he has his own kids. We'll see how perfect that goes for her. Stepmothers don't want issues with their stepkids. We come to these groups to get help and support on how to handle the issues we have come into, created or have been created for us by the other players in the situation and to deal with feelings we hold to ourselves and no one would understand if not a SP. So, for her to put Stepmothers under the same blanket as Bad, is insane. She had a horrendous problem with her son's father and her ex. That's certain. However, I'm sure some of it is just the X rated version and not all true as stated. But it does happen, I don't doubt there are SM and SF who hate their SK's. However, I don't think the ones who truly hate their SK's and don't care, are the ones who come to the support groups looking for advice. She'll have her own issues someday and maybe see how SP's feel when we really are faced with these issues.

I like Colleen777's latest. That kind of venome is not condusive to building healthy extended families. We all have to be the adults and it is harder than hell sometimes. I never ever EVER spit fire at my two girls biomom in front of them. They grow up and they figure it out. I want them to remember that daddy and Dana was NEVER ill towards mamma but mamma was always yelling at Dana and calling her names. Kid are ALOT smarter than what we give them credit for. They may ALREADY have the pieces put together for all I know. It's not for me to tell them their biomom is kindof crazy. They will figure it out soon enough and I'll just help them through it.