Silver Quite interesting reading. I have thought about EX and how he must feel about DD, or any woman that has been in his life. I do understand the conceptual thinking behind the term "limerance". I had a man that I felt that way about once. I never told him, figuring that if he felt anything for me he would approach me. There were a few mixed signals, I thought but he never made an attempt that was something that I knew for sure showed he was interested in me. He had enough chances to do that and he didn't. He thought of me as a friend or sister I guess. Or he would have gone for a little "roll in the hay" if I would have. He even introduced me to a girlfriend that he began dating and ended up getting her pregnant and they later married. Ouch! With EX's past ( if what he has said is true ) he undoubtedly has great fear of rejection. Again, if what he says is true, he wanted my DD to stay with him, build a future with him and he wanted a family with us. There are too many things though that are negatives to the success of their relationship that he is completely out of touch with which makes me think that he has a break with normal thought processes. This is evident with other actions...his extensive lying and his criminal behavior. My DD did not want to marry or have children ( my goodness, she is only 20 ) and he did. Very much in fact. I don't know that she will ever change her mind but he had said that he would rather have had her and no kids than to not have her at all. I don't know that it would have been something he could have easily lived with though. The age difference is something that was too vast....11 years...when dealing with her age group. Had they met when she was in her 30's or 40's or older then it would not have been as big a deal. I am sorry for him when it comes to honest, heartfelt feelings that he might have had for my DD. The fact that he could install such fear ( and continues to do so ) and the fact that he has told so many lies negates all of that though. It sucks to be rejected. Our family histories have a lot to do with whether or not we can process the rejection in a healthy way. Most of us have been and some of us have stepped over a line while dealing with it that we cringe at after having healed a bit. It is important to teach our kids that when they deal with peers or a romantic interest people have a right to reject them. In the long run it is for the best. I don't know how much EX has control over when it comes to his emotions about the breakup. I am sorry that I can't talk to him. It just can't happen. I want him to get help and to go onto have a happy life. More importantly though I want him to leave my DD alone and let her move on. Thanks for the thread and the link Silversword.

My son's greatest fear in his "I must be nice" is due to the fact the ex-DIL could fly off with the grandson and not return. I understand that. She has taken the grandson a couple times to Europe with her to visit her mother. She dumps grandson off there for 2 weeks while she travels around and enjoys herself then picks him back up, visits a day or two herself and then returns to the states. Grandson really hates this. Being stuck with someone he had never met, speaks little of his language, eats totally different foods than he is use to and won't allow him to call his father stating it cost to much. The other grandmother is kind to him and tries hard to bond with grandson, but the whole thing is upsetting to him. If the BM would remain with him during these visits at least the first few so they could get use to each other , but no, she can't be bothered. BM is a very selfish person and does not seems to have the ability to have empathy. Our fear is that grandson may be taken over there if ex-DIL gets too angry or things fail with new BF. So here I am , afraid to 'rock the boat' too strongly. I do think the above posters suggestions of trying to limit phone calls is the right direction, but I will have to talk to her at least once a week. Maybe texting would be best. Short messages which could be answered briefly in return without her thinking really I'm avoiding her. I do most the running back and forth for pick-ups so the new GF does not get stuck doing it. Grandson gets out of school at 1:30 on pick-up day and ex-DIL wants him picked up right away so she can be off doing her plans for 'her break' as she calls it. She would be 'best friends' with the GF if she could and bug the GF just as she does me. The one time the GF went to pick up grandson, BM had her come to the house, had made a late lunch and the GF really was put out listening to a couple of hours of BM rattle on and on. Bottomline, BM really needs to make a friend or two and instead she tries to go on as if we really will continue to be one big happy family including even the GF--we can all just be best friends. Sport games are usually on Sunday afternoon (Y sponsered) and I end up sitting with BM a few rows in front of son and GF, if not, then BM would be sitting with them. She invites us all out for dinner after which we decline. Then she pouts when son, GF, and either me or my husband and I take grandson out to eat without her and after drops off grandson, always running out and asking if we'd now like to come in for coffee. GF holds her own fairly well with BM if it's over the phone, but GF does not want to become best friends and for them to do non-parenting things together (shopping, lunch, ect). When BM called GF (not son, GF) to deliver 'rules' for bedtime, meals, acceptable activities, and whatnot the GF just listened but not agreeing. When son got home and told, he called BM and explained to her that those are the rules at BM's house but not the rules at his house and that she should talk to him. The more I think about this, I think it's time I have a long talk with ex-DIL and tell my son beforehand that I am going to. I don't think this all would be so hard to deal with if ex-DIL was born and raised in the states and we did not have to have the fear of her leaving the states with the grandson lurking in the background. None of us want to have a international custody battle and chance not being a part of the boy's life. Thanks for letting me unload.

Thank you everyone I know I am being a bit sensitive and probably a bit insecure and worrying when I should be grateful. Our living situation makes me insecure. I blame my mother lol it's something I deal with in therapy but I still have made any headway on it. I have lived the 'with money' life with my ex and even when I say, id rather have love than money any day, since I've had both, I still wish I owned my own home, in a neighborhood full of kid with my own flowerbed to dig in and my own walls to paint. It's a goal. We are close but it's been a long two years. Mostly because I have legal fees out the you know what... And I married a man that never planned to marry or have a family and so he never planned for the future. At our ages we are just starting and we have two kids to raise... One is half way out the door ... My son will be settled and in a home in a neighborhood before he starts school and he probably won't remember that if it weren't for hand me down clothes, he might have not have been dressed the last two years. Thank goodness for our blessings because we have always been able to pay the bills, afford extras for the kids and cover the little things that come up in life. I come from a home where we never moved. My mom still lives in the home she bought 42 years ago when she married my biodad. Our lives were always very settled and we all went to the same schools, had the same teachers etc. Grew up with the same neighbors and friends. Dd has moved 3 times in her life, has been to 2 schools and I'm just feeling guilty that we aren't as settled as we should be. I know people move all the time but for someone that came from such a settled background, it's hard to justify to myself my unsettled feelings. I know my Dd doesn't care, I'm sure she doesn't. She is too worried about what books she is going to read and what performance she will do at the talent show. With that said, she hears a lot from her dad about how crappy we live. I know he and sm are just trying to upset me and maybe even make her think the grass is greener over there. I would not say I am jealous of them at all but I feel insecure that he COULD provide a more stable environment for Dd as far as a home goes. Nothing more. I provide fine for her mentally, emotionally, financially. He has made comments that with the amount of support he pays we should be living in a better area. Couldn't be further from the truth but I internalize it and I worry that as Dd gets older, she is going to buy in to what he says to her. And she won't want to be with me anymore. It's just a fear I'm sure there is no basis for it but it is my feelings and I can't do anything but accept the way things are and move on. Thanks again for letting me vent here and giving me great advice. I really appreciate it!!!

"Apparently this is not uncommon with latin women" As a latina, I take offense to that generalization. From your post, would it be correct to assume guy is latino too? It sounds like a big mess that I'd go running as fast as I could in the opposite direction. 1) he doesn't tell you he has a child until he knew you were in love & hooked? 2) he let you do all the work while he stayed in the background? 3) he is married through an immigration scam? 4) he has major issues with immigration and family law? 5) he won't go see his child unless you are there? Is it about seeing his child or showing his ex he has you? or is he too much of a wuss to go alone? 6) he waited until his daughter was 2 years old & then put her through a paternity test? What if she had not been his biologically? Would he have bailed on her? Are you married to him? If not, run, run, run!!! He's already proven he is not honest, faithful, mature, trustworthy, or responsible. You are suffering in anxiety and stress over HIS mess! My suggestion is get as far from him as possible before you have a child with him and cause another child the kind of grief he is already causing his daughter. I could tell you about all the latin men in my family but then that would be generalizing but let me just say that I married a white guy for good reason! There is something about machismo with the guys in my family.