There are some books about it for girls, i can't look right now. When i started my talks with DD, she said she already knew all that. Girls learn from each other. Some girls get monthly cycles as early as 9-10 years old, 9 is probably the age to at least start talking. This is never easy talk, with your own kids but especially SKs. I can't avice much, but good luck...

We are in the middle of this with my SD 9 .... I would call mom about it because its her daughter let her do it ... but she would have questions for me and I "didn't want to overstep my bounds" I would say talk to your mom .... but she still had questions ...

The books I got were from american girl ....
Anything in the american girl series
The care and keeping of you
The care and keeping of your feelings

And a couple of journals

My SD has sleep over with a cousin whose mom is very open more open than I would have been but it gave us a starting point ... My SD loved having the books

My SD has many questions when she comes home from the cousins but we refer her to the books ... they have seemed to help and are very kid friendly...

I know what you mean if it were yours you would know what to say and do but with someone else's kid how do you handle it .... scary times!!!

I've always just told my girls...at whatever age they've asked...that is what happens when you get old enough to have babies and just explained the menstuation process...not sex...that's a different question.

As for the sex talk, I picked my SD up from school one day (her aunt was pregnant at the time), and she says, "My mom told me where babies come from, and I think it's disgusting what you did with my dad" (we have a child together). So I replied, "Well, how do you think you got here?" To which she said, "Ew, you mean my dad did that with my mom too?!"

My point, it's never going to be a comfortable subject, not with your bio kids, not with your skids, but it will have to be dealt with. Due to my conversation with SD, I decided to give my BD (same age as SD) the details...just so she wouldn't hear it only from SD. I don't know if she thought she was ready, but I did it anyway.

As for your husband wanting you to give the talk, I would do it if I were you. Dads don't tend to be too comfortable in these issues with daughters, and a woman's perspective is worth a lot. Hope it goes well!!!

I'm very open and don't have a problem with what to say. I focused on telling my DD the physical aspects but I also want to focus a lot on the moral aspects. It's more than just saying "once a month, this happens" because when they hit puberty, there are other things, emotional issues, sexual feelings, moodiness, and those are the areas that I have a problem with. I don't think it's going to matter what I do or say, her mom is going to have a problem with anything that isn't coming from her. We already expect that. I'm not worried about overstepping bounds at the moment, if she has a problem with it, it's her problem.

I am more concerned with ending up with a girl gone wild. SD hasn't asked anything at all, yet she doesn't seem to know anything about basic stuff. She tries to act or talk like a teenager (tries to push her jeans down to her hips like low rise, shakes her butt, uses teenager language and attitude) and that is a big concern that once she hits real puberty, she's going to be a wild child. I didn't have this problem with my DD. I have been told that girls model after their mothers usually and there's nothing we can do to change that. My DD is creeped out by SD's behavior sometimes.

The books I suggested cover all that and will give her the basics to have conversations with you

Deals with the emotions not the behaviors though thats something you have to "break her of" .. pull your pants up your belly is hanging out ... this is not a runway/fashion show...

"Rolling of eyes" drives me nutz ... hubby was "oblivious" to it .... until we were watching tv one night and someone said something about rolling eyes... hubby said ok you are not nutz others complain about it too... ignoring you completely while you are two feet from them but if they are in their room yelling your name and you don't run to see what they want...

And the yeah yeahs or yeah huh whatever!!! ... makes my skin shrink :)

this is actually a really touchy subject with me right now. The oldest is my ss who is 10. I have been telling DH for a while now that he needs to have the talk with him. SS has made comments, asked questions here and there and done a few other things that made me realize Now, is the time to have the talk. Dh and I talked and talked and talked... he didnt know what to say. My view is that you should be as open and honest as possible. Don't lie don't say unrealistic things like the only time you can have sex is marriage. What he decided to tell him... you can go to jail for having sex and not even what sex actually is. I was so incredibly mad at him that I couldnt even discuss the subject anymore. Bm sends the kids to DH...DH doesnt want to talk about it. I let DH know that since this is the case if any of the kids ask me I will be honest and give them an honest answer from now on. He was fine with that but nonetheless. I think it is sooo important how you address the sex talk. With my parents it was soo taboo that I never thought I could have an open conversation with them about and to this day dont think I ever have. I wouldnt go into gory detail but I would be precise and I have no intention of saying to my daughter you can't have sex until marriage... I will tell her that it is such an incredibly sacred thing that you have to wait until you are emotionally and physically ready and you have be absolutely sure that it is what you want and no one else. I would also tell her that no matter what choices she makes to be smart and be safe about it. Everything that I have read suggests to make sure and say the actual names of the body parts not goofy made up names which I intend to use. My daughter is still pretty young so we are not there yet but she is most definately mature for her age in a lot of ways... so it will come soon. I know that this may not be the way a lot of people would handle it... but I truly hope that by being honest and talking about it openly my daughter will feel mroe at ease to come to me and talk to me about these issues when they become most important. (same with the other three)

My Stepdaughter is 12. In my home, with my own four boys, we always openly talked about sex for as long as I can remember. My kids had all the information they needed from a very early age, and its never been something that has been uncomfortable or shied away from in my home with my own children. To this day , none of my kids is uncomfortable discussing sex, or relationships,or body parts, etc. Its what they grew up with.

However, I have deliberately avoided those kind of conversations when my stepchildren are around. My reasoning is that it is their mothers job to decide how much to tell them, how to handle the conversations , and what is appropriate and what isnt.

But.......I have had to change my position.

My stepchildrens mother lives in Louisiana, and for some reason, people there are so afraid of talking about sex. My stepdaughter needed a bra last winter - it was obvious. I mentioned it to her, and she said her mother said she couldnt have a bra until she was 13. I had my husband speak to her mother, mentioning that in today's world, its not good for a young girl to go without a bra once its needed. Her mom took the hint and backed down and bought a bra.

A few weeks later, one of my older kids made a comment about PMS in front of the 12 year old. I found out that not only did my SD not know about pms, she didnt know what a period was. She didnt know how babies were made. She thought that you had to be married to have a baby, and somehow it involved taking your clothes off with your husband, but thats all she knew. I was horrified, and shocked that a girl, at 12 years old, had been told NOTHING. SHe also had no idea about what kind of changes she would face during puberty. SHe had no sex ed in school, as Louisiana doesnt allow it to be taught. In her mothers house, any reference to body parts, or even the word sex, were supposed to be swear words, and were punished if they were used. I was dumbfounded.

So, I told her the basic facts. SD never told her mother that I have given her that info, but if mom finds out, so what? its just WRONG imo to let your own discomfort and fear keep you from equipping your children to understand and cope with life at the appropriate stage, and 12 is late for this info, imo.

I know it was her moms job, but her mome wasnt doing it. Someone had to.

I started my first period one summer when I was staying with my 60-something-year-old aunt, & while I had picked up a little data from my school friends ("you *have* to have periods or you can't have children? That's gross! more disgusting than s-e-x! & Not Fair!"), I wasn't prepared.

My aunt had to go to the drugstore & buy the supplies & show me how to use them & how to use cold water to get bloody stains out of white cotton underwear.

I was mortified.

Now what was my point?...

oh, yeah, momof4 is right:

*Now* is the time.

Give her the information now;
better that she has it before she needs it than that she needs it & doesn't have it.

Girls hit puberty so early now, & it's bad enough that it'll be a shock to you ("my baby!");
worse if it's a shock to her.

same with boys.

Did anyone else see that episode of Roseanne where the little boy suddenly stopped participating in class, refused to go to the blackboard, etc?

He just refused to participate & wouldn't tell the teacher why, so she called the parents in for a conference.
He wouldn't talk to his parents either, so they said he was being difficult & unreasonable & they banished him to his room.

turned out he was having erections.

(His dad told him it happened to all boys & to hold a book in front of his "lap".)

It would have been better if the little boy had been prepared & the brou-haha & publicity had been avoided.

("Your *parents* know? the *teacher* knows?")
mortifying

& I think I'd plan the lesson like a newspaper article.

You know, news stories cover the major points right in the first paragraph & add details in descending priority, so the reader will get the important facts immediately & will know what the story is about if he/she doesn't finish the whole story in one sitting .

Let her get the gist of being prepared for the physical events (before she yawns & fidgets & her eyes glaze over), & she'll pick up the rest, if not in the initial conversation, than in later chats.

& the later chats don't have to be big, explicit lectures;
they can be by-the-way type exchanges ("by the way, you're a young woman in some ways now; having periods means you are *biologically* grown-up, but you don't have be a grown-up all the time").

IMO, the whole Jamie Lynn Spears situation is th perfect opportunity to have a discussion with our kids about sex, babies, contraception and choices.

Seems we're all so concerned about telling them HOW, and HOW is not really the issue. They can get the HOWs from books, from friends, even from pure instinct. A few basics on the HOW are needed, but then, move on to the WHEN and WHY / WHY NOT discussions.

I had one fairly long conversation with my older son when he was 14. His dad had covered the core medical aspects, but I wanted to talk to him about the values end. It was fairly easy to start the conversation with a statement along the lines of "He was too young to be doing this now, but he needed to have the information to make the right decision when the time came." -- And there was something about just stating that "This is a way off" that made the subject more comfortable. And the end of that conversation? "In the next couple of days, I'm going to go to the drugstore and I'm going to buy some condoms and I'm just going to put them in your dresser drawer. I want you to move them to some other spot that you will know about and I won't, so you'll know I'm not checking up on you. And I want you to promise me that when the time comes, you will USE one of these! Do you know how?" (Big Blush - muttered 'yes')

And we've had several more discussions since then, all focused on helping him decide WHEN to say yes, and how to say "No" or "Not yet" when that was his decision. Knock on wood, things are still going well...

Being a single parent, I had to talk to my sons and I don't know about how father's deal with it, but after I told them about "protection" and the physical/emotional aspects of sex, I also discussed further from a girls perspective. I talked to them about respecting girls (and even girls that throw themselves at them, as they may not have respect for themselves) I talked to them about motives girls may have to use sex to get "love" or a baby to love. I talked to them about the consequences of casual sex... and how it affects girls differently than boys usually.

Sweeby, this is brilliant!!
"In the next couple of days, I'm going to go to the drugstore and I'm going to buy some condoms and I'm just going to put them in your dresser drawer...."
I'm going to try to remember that one!

Kathline, a woman I know was in the same boat growing up that your SD was in with her mom. She actually wound up having sex at age 12 before she knew what it was or what its possible consequences were. She was pretty sure she wasn't "supposed to be" doing what was going on, but didn't really know how to talk about it or tell her 13yo BF no. It's hard to say no to something you have no name for.
Our schools offer sex ed, but the parents have the option to pull the kid out of that class. So, she didn't know the proper names for any body parts until she was about 15. What a nightmare.
I say good for you for educating your SD!

On a funny note, a friend of mine has a VERY frank daughter (now age 14). When she was 4, she walked up to my friend and said "Mom, I want to know why you need a man to have a baby and I don't want you to gross me out or give me any bullsh17."
Wow! Now THAT's a tall order - don't gross her out AND don't give her any bullsh17? Seems like one or the other is pretty much guaranteed.

As for what my mom did with me - I knew the logistical facts of sex at about 8 and that it's "what grown ups do when they really love each other". As I got older, she brought up birth control and safe sex, morals and values, that it should ALWAYS be 100% consensual and a boy who pressures you doesn't really love you, etc etc. Some things were brought up casually and in passing, and some were brought up as "I'd like to have a private conversation with you sometime soon. How about tomorrow after school?"
I think her approach worked fairly well... I dated my high school BF (a very nice boy) for about a year and a half and never had sex with him because I wasn't ready yet. I started dating a different very nice boy in grade twelve and first had well-protected sex with him after about six months, when I was 17 and we were in (teenage) love.

kathline- although obviously I have the idea that I want everything to be open and honest when talking about sex relationships etc. I was just curious how you approached it. I have thought about it a lot and I can't handle the version of the sex talk that my DH had with his sons "You can go to jail for having sex" I have read a lot of different articles about how is the best way to build that kind of openess but I am really starting from scratch here. It is not something my parents ever did (they sound alot like the louisiana parents) and it is not something DH ever had or is comfortable talking about with the kids. Anyways, I was just looking for ideas or pointers. I like sweeby's idea but I don't think my boys are at that level yet.

Iam in a similar situation with my SD. I know it is time to have the talk and it looks like I am going to have to be the one to do it. BM isn't around very often..hasn't called in a month and a half (this is normal for our family)
so I am the main female figure at home. Talked to hubby about it he wants to put it off as long as possible...SD came homme the other day andasked to shave her legs..I almost dropped my cup! I think I was 12 before I shaved..SD says she doesn't want to ever wear shorts again because all the other girls in her class have shaved legs....wow! I told hubby it is time and that if he prefered we could do the talk together...said absolutely not he didnt want to be there but he wanted me to wait a few more weeks....am planning to broach the subject to him again in a few days. She needs to have accurate information and I definately want to emphasize values, and saving yourself until you are ready because that is not examples that I dont think she sees when she sees BM.
Good luck nd I think if you are the main caregiver of a SK and Bio parent isn't around or willing to be available to SK than it is your responsibility to make sure hye are informed so they can make positive choices.

On a side note: I have noticed the leg shaving thing a few times. And, just from my own experiance as a kid. I have a what is described as an olive complexion and I get very tan very easily. Also, my hair is dark very thick hair as well. My parents had a firm stance (well mostly my mother) about shaving legs. I could not do it until I was thirteen. Well long before thirteen is middle school and for a girl with dark hair and tan complexion I had dark hair on my legs. It was one of the most embarrassing experiances of my life. I hate when the other girls would pick on me because of that. I would refuse to wear shorts or dresses until my mother made me. If it is a big issue for your daughters... I personally would not push the issue. Out of the things to make one feel better about ones self I think shaving is a fairly harmless one. I ended up ignoring my mom and shaving in secret. (obviously wrong... but that is how desperate I felt about it at the time) And how good I felt about myself once I was able to take away that one thing that made me feel inferior was so amazing.

Last summer my sd's mom was yet again pregnant. So she decided to have the sex talk with my sd on a visit. She told my sd actual terms and was way too descriptive! My sd came home and began talking about sex a lot while we had company was over. We were mortified! And upset, it seems bm talked about positions, oral sex, and everything! I was waiting to hear that mom and her recent bf demonstrated next!

I ended up posting on here a while ago about my sd deciding to "try" this stuff with a girl she was friends with. Her friend brought up the idea and my sd was all too curious after her moms info!

If we could do it over again I would have immediately followed my sd's new information with a WHEN, WHY/WHY NOT discussion. At the time I was just so in awe at her mothers discussion with her I was speechless. When I told my dh about the new info my sd had filled me on he was embarassed and wanted to pretend it did not happen.

After the incident with her friend we had the talk with her about WHEN, WHY/WHY NOT. I also had this conversation with my dd because I wanted her to hear it all from me, not her ss.

Luckily I had the period talk with both girls a few years ago because my sd was starting to develop and complained of cramps. I figured that time was coming so I sat them both down and gave them the info on what might happen in the near future and how normal it is and not to be scared. I also talked about hygene and stuff.

I think that it is important to be honest and answer their questions. (but some things, like what my dh's ex told my sd, are better left unsaid!)

Of course a parent should use "actual terms" when talking about sex with their child. You want them to use euphemisms, so the child doesn't know what her friends are talking about?

It is important to talk about oral sex with one's child. Apparently it is very common about young teens, and a lot of them do not realize that they have to worry about STD's.

I used actual terms with my daughter and maybe the difference is that it's not really something you sit down and explain all at once. There is such thing as giving too much information, too soon. What I understood was to allow the child to ask questions and give age appropriate answers periodically and not overwhelm the child with EVERYTHING. It really depends on the age and maturity level of the child.

With "actual terms" I mean blowjobs--and her mother told her how that is done, "doggy-style", "missionary position", anal sex, etc.......those are the things her mother told her.

ok, that's NOT cool

Exactly...and people wonder why I read e-mails between sd and bm. Some things need to be seen, printed, and stored in a "just in case" file where we document everything! In the future it may prove to be helpful in keeping sd safe.

What the heck does this have to do with emails? I got the impression that the mother and daughter discussed sex in person.

Just cause it is more info than you would have given doesn't make it wrong to talk about it. If I were that detailed, my kids would probably say TMI and leave the room, but neither you nor I are that girl's mother, and how much info she gives her daughter is her business, not ours.

theotherside, not all BM's are as wonderful as you with their children. It is up to the BM to tell her child what she wants to tell her, but it does become dad & SM's business the minute that they are the ones left to deal with the aftermath (and that happens when the child lives with them). It would be different in a shared custody arrangement, but just yesterday I went to check on SD ten minutes after she turned off the shower and she should have been dressed and finishing up her bedtime routine. She was practicing dancing naked in front of her mirror. (you might recall that a while back, she was dancing in her underwear) She writes about wanting to be a stripper. But I guess it's nothing to be concerned about, is it? Is that normal behavior for an 8 year old?

or is it something her mom should deal with? Oh yeah, her mom is the one that put thong underwear on her when she was six. I wonder why she aspires to be a nude dancer.... hmmm

Dancing in front of the mirror is normal, dressed or undressed. No, wanting to be a stripper is not cool, but it will probably pass. If you will make a big deal out of it, she will probably rebell and end up either a stripper or pregnant at 15.
Thongs are crazy, at any age. I accidentally bought a 3-pack thinking those are bikinis. I tried one and suffered for few hours. Pardon me, it is soooo uncomfortable. DD tried another pair from the pack, suffered through that too. We threw the pack out. Who can wear them, they are terrible.

That's all BM wears. Of course SD wants to be like her mom, I understand that. I didn't make a big deal about it, I tell her counselor (outside her presence) so they can talk about life goals. I've put her in girl scouts. We're trying to get her interested in things that don't involve being sexy.

and just for a little background, SD was found with about ten or fifteen barbie & ken dolls, all naked posed in sexual positions a few months ago. I know that having "play" weddings and kissing stuff is normal, fully naked and posed in every position you can imagine, I'm not so sure???

and she's been saying she wants to be a stripper since she was 5 or 6. DH didn't take it seriously at first. Now, we're not so sure.

I agree with finedreams, that dancing in front of a mirror naked at that age is perfectly normal. Or at any age. I think it would be a mistake to make a big deal out of her saying she wants to be a stripper. It is likely to just result in her continuing to say so just to get your goat.

Com'n how do you know what underwear BM wears? I can't believe what you are saying. She can wear whatever she wants.

As about stripping maybe you can suggest that there are other jobs out there. Little girl might not know what else is available.

TOS, at any age? Hhhmm I wish I can still look like i can dance naked in front of the mirror. Dressed maybe. Naked? Not so much hahaha

The 2 little boys who belonged to ex (I never felt like "stepmother", I was more "Auntie Mame" I guess, they had functional parents) were talked to in a matter-of-fact way from the time they could talk themselves, & they always used grown-up terms.

There wasn't any big sitting-down, here's-the-dreadful-secret discussions.

Not only does it make sense to use correct terms, it makes for some interesting/funny conversations:

Once, when I was bathing the younger one, who was about 30 months old at the time, I said, "Well, have I washed everything?", & he replied, enunciating distinctly: "No, syl-vi-a, you did-dn't wash my peen-us."

(I said, "Ah. Well. Here's the washcloth; how about if you do that yourself?")

I can see why you'd be distressed Ima --

Just out of curiosity, what does BioMom do for a living?
And are you totally sure she's not in the sex trade?
I mean, for an 8 year old, that's really way too much information.

I can understand being totally open. Being frank and uninhibited about sex. But that's not what's going on here -- BioMom is being very explicit about 'sexy' and saying absolutely nothing about biology or reproduction. I mean, what better way to assure a teen pregnancy?

Sweeby, from what I know, here's bio mom's history.

She was being treated for mental health issues throughout high school. (from court records)
She hooked up with her first husband before his divorce was final and had an abortion so his wife wouldn't find out about her. As soon as his divorce was final, she announced she's pregnant and he married her. When their daughter was 11 months old, she took off and left the baby with him while she went to spend the weekend with a male co-worker. In her statement, she said they were just friends. Her husband filed for divorce. In his statements, he said she liked to party, had a drinking problem and told him she had once had a drug problem with her ex BF. After a trial, he was given shared custody. She moved six hours away (back to her mom's) and took the baby. The court did not change custody but she moved before the court found out. (from court records)
She lived with her mom & collected child support for her baby while she dated. When she met DH, she was living with her mom and moved in with him right away. Within a few months she was pregnant. She drank but not in excess. When she drank, she would try to talk him into having "parties" where she wanted to invite other couples into swapping. He said no way. He says he thought it was the alcohol talking. Within a year of the baby being born, he suspected she was cheating and discovered she had taken his credit card and charged over 2K on it from Mary Kay. He broke up with her and moved her back into her mom's house, keeping SD because her mom didn't want two kids there. A few months later, she allowed BM to keep SD every other week. (from DH's side of it)
When I met DH, BM was still living with her mom. She had an out of the area BF that slept with her in her room at her mom's house when he came to visit. She shared her room with both of her girls. She denies she's ever had sex with him in front of her daughters but SD says she saw them. SD was between 4-6 when that happened.
BM doesn't work. The only job I have ever known her to have is a summer job at the community pool where she works the snack bar dressed in her bikini. She takes both girls with her and that's what they do in the summer. (She thought we were being unreasonable when we complained every other week that SD kept getting swimmers ear and we were having to take her to the doctor. We offered to keep her while she works so SD wouldn't keep getting ear infections or swimmers ear)
When we were going through the court custody battle, a quick computer search of her name brought up several websites that she had joined for group sex, swapping, same sex clubs, etc. She also posted things on her myspace, including pictures. She posted things about her 'parties' and clubbing. DH didn't have a clue about her underground lifestyle and if you saw her walking down the street, she looks like an all american PTA mom from suburbia.

In her specific situation I would be concerned about her actions. But, I will point out that I have walked into my daughters room and she was dancing around in her underwear. I asked her what she was doing. She said " I was going to dress up but I forgot. I wanted to dance to the song on the movie" My girl.. She's a hoot. So I would say that it is normal to an extent but that with the added sexy I want to be a stripper attitude it is cause for concern. Heck, I was concerned when my girls said they wanted to grow up and not work and just have a boyfriend take care of them... I gave them a whole speech on being able to do what you want and have your own things... my independent woman speech.
And thongs on any child below say like 16ish is just seriously unacceptable. I wasn't entirely cool when my daughters grandma sent her home in a bra (at 4)

And as I said using real terms is a good idea... but taking it to the point of blow jobs and doggie style is wreckless and irresponsible in my mind.

What? Why would anyone put a bra on a four year old? They have no breasts to put in it!

daughter wanted to be like grandma... grandma thought it was cute so she bought her some of those lacy training bra deals. I didn't think it was so cute.

Poor little girl!

Can hubs document the websites, sex clubs, & sexualization of his daughter & go to court for full custody/termination of mother's rights?

We've documented the sites she was on (she even had an ad on craigs list for other couples) but has since removed them now that she's with new BF. I even have a little concern for his kids, knowing how she is. But they live with their mom and only see their dad on every other weekend, as long as their dad is staying sober. We have full physical custody as BM signed it over when she was first with new BF almost five months ago. Now, she's been saying she only wanted DH to have full custody temporarily until she got settled with new BF and now she expects him to let her take sD to live with her full time. Obviously, he said no. BM has no idea how much trauma all of this has caused her daughter. We've told her of the troubles at school, and invited her to counseling sessions but she's not willing to go. She doesn't think there is any problem at all. The fact that she doesn't even have her older daughter with her is a big indication that she probably doesn't really want her kids with her, she just wants to use the threat of taking away SD to get DH to do what she wants all the time.

I'm so sorry.

It's so frustrating & so infuriating that people who cause tremendous misery never care, & it seems like they often don't have any consequences.

It sounds like all you can do is keep documenting *everything*, even conversations, & print out any craigslist posts, etc, that you find, & you might encourage stepdaughter to keep a daily journal.

& keep on making sure that she sees & hears & reads that a girl/woman's sexuality is a normal, integral part of her identity & her day-to-day life & not a commodity to sell.

I wish all of you the best.

"Com'n how do you know what underwear BM wears? I can't believe what you are saying. She can wear whatever she wants."

When SD told us her mom put thong underwear on her, I was shocked but DH said when they lived together, that's all she wore, if she wore anything at all. I told him that was too much information.

"As about stripping maybe you can suggest that there are other jobs out there. Little girl might not know what else is available"

We have both talked to her about other jobs but she's come up with wanting to be a cheerleader for the NFL or America's next top model. Everything she wants to do has to do with being sexy or looks. We are trying to get her interested in other things. We even thought that signing her up for some religious training would be good for her, but BM shot that down and threw a fit. Right now, I'm also trying to get her involved in team sports, which I think is a good way to learn how to get along with others. She has a hard time with getting/keeping friends. Part of it is that she talks that way with her friends, they go home and tell their parents and we get calls from the parents, "can you keep your daughter away from mine."

The reason I posted this thread was because while I know what to tell her about sex, I have a harder time knowing what to say to her about respecting herself because I feel like whatever I say is going to be contradicting to what her mom has already been teaching/showing her. I don't want her to get the feeling that I am saying her mom is wrong (even though I think she is) because I don't think SD is going to want to hear anything different than what her mom says.

Unless you happen to be good at them, I think team sports are a great way to destroy your self-esteem.

Perhaps you are making too big a deal about her career aspirations. She is only a kid. At her age I wanted to be a cowboy. My parents didn't try to get me interested in other things, they didn't tell me that it was too violent an occupation, they didn't tell me that there really isn't much demand for gunslingers nowadays, or even that, technically, girls couldn't grow up to be cowboys. They just let me enjoy being a kid, bought me cowboy boots, a cowboy hat and a pair of six shooters (though I wasn't allowed to use caps).

Oh, and I had a friend who actually was a NFL cheerleader for awhile. She was one of the sweetest girls I have ever known.

"but neither you nor I are that girl's mother, and how much info she gives her daughter is her business, not ours."

So you think it is fine to tell a young girl about blowjobs and sexual positions and anal sex? Come on!! And it most certainly is my business since "her" daughter lives with ME full-time and my dd is around her all the time. I would not have told my dd so much info and do not want my sd telling her all that info! I think it was in VERY poor taste for my sd's bm to tell her so much vulgar information. Next thing you know she will be showing her a porno to teach her how to do it all "well" and you will be on her supporting that because it is "her" daughter that she sees once every few months----with that visitation she qualifies more like an acquaintance!

Are you going to "protect" your daughter from those other kids in her school who already know (sometimes from personal experience) about blowjobs and sexual positions and anal sex?

Are you going to read every book she reads, and see every movie?

Personally, I would rather protect my children from the dangers of misinformation.

Yes I am going to and have read every book and see/n every movie...

What I have told my SD8 is ... not to share everything she knows with other girls at school because not every girl her age knows stuff ... lots of parents are scared to talk to their little girls about grown up things be respectful of yourself and your friends ... you don't want the other girls mom's saying you can't play with them because of how you talk do you? But why didn't they tell them yet? because some moms and dads wait til their daughters are 10 sometimes even older. You know if you have questions you can ask me or mom.

She also asked when she could wear underwear like older sister (thongs) I told her when she could pay for them herself or 18 which ever comes first. :) You spend all day picking your butt now imagine if you had strings in there ...

When my daugher was 14 I told her ... no one remembers who the prom queen or best athlete was, who the nerds were in high school but everyone remembers the town tramp.... some reputations never go away....

When SD was in high school all the kids knew who the spanish teacher because when she was in HS she was a "slut". They didn't talk about her being a good teacher they talked about how rumors were going around she was a tramp in HS.... gave SD same speech everyone remembers who the easy girls were in HS. Not the virgins.

I don't think anyone is advocating that the children should compete for the position of Town Slut.

"Yes I am going to and have read every book and see/n every movie..."

You are kidding, right?

Something about calling things the way they are

There is a cartoon in this week's "New Yorker" issue.

This mom talks to teenager girl. Cartoon is called Heart-to-Heart Talk.

So mom gives a speech:
It is not like in my dauys people didn't do ANYTHING.
In my days people also did THINGS. You know not those CERTAIN things, but those OTHER certain things. But we only did them with CERTAIN people. But now those OTHER things seem to be done with whoever because these OTHER certain things seems to be less intimate than CERTAIN things rather than vice versa etc haha

Daughter sits and looks at mom terrified.

I thought this cartoon goes well with our discussion. How clear and specific you want parents to be.

WEll probably more clear and specific than: certain things and other more or less intimate other certain things. HHAAAA

I am not cheerleading or modeling type, neither is DD but it doesn't mean all cheerleaders or models are sluts or are stupid. Oh actually there was a research done that cheerleading in high school (in urban minority settings, I don't know if they did the research in wealthy neighbourhoods) and it is preventing teenage pregnancy, drugs etc. Girls who get involved are less likely to get pregnant while in school. i used to teach urban high school and we had a severe pregnancy issue. Like nonstop. None of the cheerleaders got pregnant or was even involved with boys. They were too busy and worried of not being able to stay cheerleaders. And modeling can bring pretty good money that can be used for college later. Well,stripping is entirelly different story.

I hate to have to point this out but...

Our entire society is teaching young girls that all that matters is looks. Every tv show, every famous celebrity that appeals to that age range, all flaunt appearance as the measure of a persons worth. Young girls today are being bombarded with totally the wrong messages.

This isnt just coming from the girls bio mom. Its coming from everywhere. There is intense pressure on girls to fit the standard from society, and from their peers.

Its very simplistic to blame it on biomom. Even if mom is encouraging daughter to show her sexy, its not the only place daughter is getting that message. And perhaps biomom also is being swayed by the message of society that looks are the most important thing for a woman. I know a lot of grown women who think that, just look at the explosion in cosmetic surgery for adults.

Its not an easy time to be a woman, of any age. Then again, it probably never was.

fine, I'm not against cheering or modeling. (although my niece did some modeling just out of high school and in the real world of modeling, it's cut throat and a lot of girls are expected to sleep with someone to get ahead, there's just so many beautiful girls competing and it does have a dark side)

If my SD was upbeat and perky with her attitude and wanted to do that, I'd encourage it. She doesn't have that personality but places a lot of emphasis on what boys think of her, not that it would be fun to cheer. Her behavior around boys is completely inappropriate. We went camping a couple of years ago and she grabbed her cousins crotch, following around my nephew (who was 17 at the time) and hanging all over boys. Her desire to be a cheerleader or model is about being sexy. I worry because a couple of months ago, she (3rd grader) was almost thrown off the bus for sitting on a boy's (8th grader) lap. She is big for her age and looks about 12, so that is a problem. When she was 5 (when I met her) she looked 8. Her mom thinks it's cute that she likes boys and encourages it. She didn't think it was a big deal to sleep with BF's in front of her girls. She dresses her in mini skirts & tank tops because that's SD how SD wants to dress. She puts temp tattoos on her belly and on her arms. I'm not against temp tattoos on most kids but SD has these problems with boundaries (with boys) and if she gets around the wrong boy, she's the perfect victim... It's very scary.

and TOS, we watch every movie before we allow SD to watch it. We don't watch every movie ever made but we know how she copies and likes to emulate some things and there are things in some movies that the average kid isn't going to be impacted by but SD will. It's not so crazy.

Children who are sexually abused sometimes act out:
they may make sexual overtures to other kids, do things like crotch-grabbing, french kissing, acting flirtatious & making suggestive "come-hither" poses, etc.

Things may have gone beyond clothing & posing & witnessing sexual activity.

I think I'd talk to a counsellor who works with sexually abused children.

I wish you the best.

sylvia, my first impression of her when I first met her was that she may have been abused in some way sexually. Her current counselor has explored it but if she was, she won't open up about it or she may have no memory of it. The only thing she has said is that she saw her mom & BF and we don't know if it was once or on a regular basis. It's funny you mention that come hither poses, when we took her on a cruise last year, we wanted to take a little video of her when we were walking back to the ship. She got up on a large rock and started posing like she was doing a magazine spread. If we are out and about, she practically gives herself whiplash if an older boy walks by (and stares). She has gotten better because we are constantly telling her what is not acceptable, but if she thinks nobody is looking, she does it anyway. Like I said, she's had a few friends' mom's call me and tell me to keep her away from their daughters. It has gotten better but we worry when she hits puberty, she'll get out of control.

That is also why I'm concerned about her older sister that is home alone with a computer (on myspace). IF SD was abused, it could likely mean her older sister was too (and at the very least, may have witnessed mom & BF). Not to mention that she may be having a difficult time dealing with her mom leaving her too. We don't know what other men have been around them. BM was dating a guy long distance for about five years but was seeing other guys from the tae kwon do studio where she took lessons with her girls. BM broke up with her long distance BF (the one that was sleeping over) right after we got married. In the year that followed, BM had a different new BF about every two or three weeks. We couldn't keep track of them. She went to Texas ten days before the court trial. When she left, she was seeing one guy. When she came back (the day before court) she had broken up with him and went on a date with a different one the day of court. Three weeks later, she met another new BF. She moved in with this new BF and that's who she's with now.

Yikes, I see why it's even more important for this little one to have positive female images & concepts.

I'm glad you're there for her.