Get the child support adjusted, especially if he's paying on a older, higher salary. Tell Dad to get to the court and amend the visitation by court order...the BM WILL go back on her word and manipulate the situation and verbal agreement to suit her needs. If you get these issues dealt with by court order then BM can be punished for contempt of court order if she reneges on any visitation..best way to go. As for inclusions, just ask for what he wants and the court will decide.

I understand why you are waiting for a child support adjustment... it makes sense to wait until the time split is on paper.

Things you might include are:

* Times & places of pickup/drop off.
* Who transports when.
* What happens if one has to cancel or is going to be late? (Depending on the people & circumstances, that can be a major issue later on... if one parent makes plans for when the child is not there and the other parent cancels a lot, maybe even to ruin the plans, etc. Stuff happens once in a while but if it becomes a habit, then there are going to be problems)
* Who has decision making if the parents can't agree. (I've seen where the parent with primary care has the final decision but must discuss it with the other parent and I've seen it where the parties are to take it to a third party to decide if they can't agree) In an emergency, the parent with the child is usually given the decision making for emergency care.
* Who pays for transportation in the situation where the child is taken out of state and not brought back as agreed & the other parent arranges for the child's return? I've heard of that happening on this forum I think.
* Phone calls~ it can be vague or specific but if there might be a problem with phone calls, get something in writing that outlines what should be happening.

Basically, you know your situation and both parents. Figure out what are potential problems and iron it out now. Of course, when my DH and his ex signed their last agreement, I had written it for them. I was very specific about times & everything they had agreed to and several months later, she decided she didn't like the terms. She has tried to ignore the order (their agreement was submitted to the court and made into an order) and now all DH has to do is wave the order and say "it says...." and if BM wants to change it more in her favor, she needs to go back to court. He isn't completely thrilled with everything it says, but he didn't like her changing things on him or before they had an order, she would threaten to not let him see his daughter, which now he knows she can't do.

One thing your DH may also want to address is ROFR (Right of First Refusal) -- if one parent isnt able or doesnt want to be with child, that parent has to call the other and offer them to have the child. If your DH wants this, he has to suggest what a reasonable time (not 10 minutes) for this to apply is. Then he has to decide what conditions he wants -- bearing in mind it applies to him as well as her.

would a parent always have to call the other parent whenever kid is not with them? what if kid is planning visiting grandmas, or going for sleepover to aunt's house, or going to the movies wiht the older siblings etc. does mom have to always offer to dads first? in this case kids would never visit grandparents or older siblings or whoever else. other relatives are also important. kids cannot always be with mom or dad. how does it work? just wonder.

My hubby has every day of the year covered ... holidays, birthdays, non school days, half days, vacation weeks, summer vacation weeks, hospital stays, I mean everything. Except phone calls and ROFR but they have a verbal agreement on ROFR now ... but going to court at the end Feb again getting phonecalls and ROFR added.

If he already has wed and sat ... why not ask for EOFriday? instead of EOW

Holidays? do even year christmas odd years thanksgiving and new years. something like that ... this way

look up visitation schedules online they have samples see what one he might like and adjust according to their needs.

Thats why I suggest people work out terms for ROFR. Of course children should be able to visit other relatives, but if dad has EOW and then the other weekends the kids are with GM EOW, that balance might not be fair. Certianly to me if Dad only has the kids two nights a week, and GM has them every weekend, that to me, absent other factors, doesnt seem fair. Like everything else, the devil is in the details. And we dont know the facts. Is GM really wanting to spend all that time with the kids, or is she helping out with babsysitting. Honestly, I have always let my DD see her dad and my former in laws whenever she wanted. Problem is teens are usually in favor of lengthly GP visits.

Depending on what state you live in if you pay child support not through the courts it is considered a gift. When you do go to court you can be required to pay back support. I would advise talking to attorney about it. The ex can always say she only recieved gifts. This happened to my ex after he paid child support for 3 years not through a court order. He even showed the court his copies of the checks and they still made him pay back child support. So I would check it out to make sure that he doesn't end up having to pay it twice.

One thing I did RIGHT in my papers:

X wanted 1st, 3rd and 5th weekends. I made the attorney specify 1st, 3rd and 5th FRIDAYS. That way a weekend could not be misinterpreted as beginning on a Saturday or a Thursday.

One thing I wish I had clarified in my papers:

My papers restrict me to living in county "A" and adjacent counties. It says that X does pick-up and drop-off while the child lives in county "A" (I have residential custody) and it says that I do pick-up and drop-off if the child moves out of county "A". My attorney told me that X does pick-up and drop-off if we both move out of county "A", but she didn't specify that in the papers. I really wish I had made sure the papers clarified who does pick-up and drop-off if BOTH parents move out of the county, because X tries everything possible to get me to do it and it gets really old.

I let DS see X's family during my times of "posession" (not my word; papers' word). But, if I'd had to do it all over again (God forbid), I would specify that if DS is with X's family during my times of posession, they are to contact me for all problems and emergencies. We've had incidents where X has refused to let me pick up DS on my time of possession from his parents' house. Sure, I could legally do it, but how would it make DS feel to have the cops show up at his GP's house? Not really worth it. And we also had incidents where GM relayed incorrect information to X about my pick-up and drop-off plans.

Thank you all.

He has outlined holidays, Every other year.
He wants Wed. night as well as every other Fri-Sun. And he wants ROFR if she is going to be somewhere else for more then 5 hours.
In our case we really dont have a problem with pick up drop off or phone calls.
We have no prob. with his DD seeing her Great Grandma. But at 89 years old we think its a little much for her to be there every other weekend Fri-Sun. BM dumps her there on her weekends.

Basically we just want all of this in writing because we are tired of making plans, having BM agree, and then not remembering or changing it because she had something come up. She planned a karate class on Dad's time without consulting Dad. Riduculous. We just want to avoid that.

His CS gets taken out of his check and put automatically into hers. So he has been paying and there is an order. We don't want to get that changed until she signs the visitaion agreement. I'm sure she will be pissed about less $$ and less inclined to sign if we try to do it all together.

And does he understand that he will have to live with ROFR too.

what kkny is trying to say is that if bm cant leave kiddo with gm or whoever else for more than 5 hours... ditto goes for dad leaving kiddo with you. If you dont want that to be the case make sure to make some sort of exclusion for marital partners or whatever... something fair for both sides

My agreement is ROFR with no one other than parents. No third party pickups and dropoffs.

Our order includes parents, step-parents and adult siblings for pick-up/drop-off. This has been good at both ends. Step-dad can pick SD up from airport when she goes to visit, if Mom is tied up at work. And I can pick up when she comes home from visiting Mom if DH is out of town or at work.

I think 5 hours might seem a bit too restrictive. Our kids have certainly spent more than 5 hours at a family gathering or with friends, etc. I might specify "overnight" or "length of time that interferes with bedtime".

Our order allows me to pick up SD if DH is working (usually on Monday holidays where SD is out of school & at BM's for 3 day weekends but DH still has to work on the holiday).

BM has been having fits for weeks because she wants to send her mom to pick up SD for her and DH won't let her and the order says BM is to pick up SD herself. (He says if she were working & paying her support, he would let it go & let grandma pick her up but since she won't work or pay a penny, she can come get her herself... she certainly has the time)

They don't have a ROFR clause in their agreement. It might not matter if they did, BM left SD with grandma on one of her weekends and told SD to keep it a secret, which SD did. (Which is also why grandma is not allowed to pick up SD for BM now) Of course, BM is welcome to come pick up her daughter after school and keep her until DH gets home from work if she doesn't want me watching her. (of course she won't because she lives too far away now, but when they had 50/50, she charged DH a babysitting fee to keep/watch her own daughter after school until he got off work on his weeks.)

Ours includes steps as well. It has a whole paragraph outlining that I, by name, have the right to be involved in all parts of child's life, which includes pick up/drop off, make medical decisions and view records, attend school conferences and make decisions, attend any child related activities, volunteer at school/sports, care for child for prolonged periods of time, etc. All I can't specifically do is sign forms for marriage or military.

Some other tidbits we added:
parenting time is subject to child's outside activities and NCP has to make child available for their activities.

If child is to be outside NCP's care for any part of visitation we are to be notified. We have the right to meet any person this time would be spent with.

Parties can not use child as a messenger. They can not speak ill of either parent or step. All communication, excluding pleasantries of the day, will be done via phone or email away from the child.

Parents must abide by car seat laws.

Right to communicate via phone, letter or email w/o monitoring or interruption.

Expected phone call amount per week

Complete calendar schedule - what happens if holiday falls during the other parent's weekend, who gets birthdays, no school days, etc. Don't think that will all get figured out nicely later because it won't Think of every scenario and be VERY specific.

Take it from me - getting this all right now will save you many head aches later.

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How many phone calls per week does you agreement provide?

HaHa. BM doesn't have a problem at all with me picking up my SD. In fact, in a pinch she's even asked me to pick up her other daughter and take her to her grandmothers who lives 2 doors down from me. lol. But who knows. She could spaz out in the future so I will make sure he includes me on there as someone who can pick her up.

He doesn't have a problem living with ROFR. And he doesn't have a problem saying let the child go to a family members for more then 5 hours. So sometimes he will refuse. His main goal with the ROFR is he doesn't want DD dumped at great grandmas every other weekend. And he talked to her about the 5 hours. They agreed on it. He doesn't ever have to leave her with anyone for more then 3 hours anyway. But sometimes I do have her on no school days. I try to take thoes days off of work to do something fun with her. So I will see if he can exclude step parents from the ROFR. Phone calls are not a problem. There are no excessive ones or problems with that. If SD wants to talk to someone she can whenever she wants to. If she doesn't want to then neither parent pushes the issue.

Thanks for the new insights.

What may not be a problem today may be a issue tomorrow.... plan for the future.

Even as far as asking for a full week during the summer or one of the school weeks.

BM gets the kids winter break and 2 full weeks in the summer. He had to do this because she would go weeks with out seeing the kids so he had it put in for her to have uninterupted time with them ... she is better with visitation now but when he asked for it she couldn't be bothered with her kids.

It may seem like a lot to cover in the initial set up of paperwork but once its laid out its better all around for the stability of the children.

So JNM, how many phone calls?

OP, yes far better to spell it out. One reason I have no third party pickups is that they way I can make certain Dad is actually home with DD is going over there.

PS -- I think it best that the child be picked up by the parent whose house he is going to. ie, DD is going to visit Dad, he picks her up, and I go get her when visit over. That way child doesnt feel like he is being dumped off or gotten rid of, but someone who wants him is coming for him.

So your nanny isn't allowed to pick up your DD at her dad's or drop her off only you and ex?

Actually now, DD drives herself. But your right, agreement specifically dealt with OK for nanny to drive her. But nanny would only release her to parent.

Believe me, it has taken 6 years for me to realize how f-ed up my papers are. And I tried last month to get something clarified and they said sorry but there's nothing we can do. So now I just have to live with it.

You did the right thing by coming here and getting advice for your DH. I wish I'd have had this resource when I was 23 and stupid. LOL! No one in my family had been thhrough a divorce with children involved (dad was married 1 time before with no kids; mom was married 2 times before with no kids; and my parents are together; grandparents were all already gone; X's parents and grandparents are together).

MY attorney (yes, my very own attorney that I paid a lot of money to) screwed me out of 3 months of support and interest along with forgetting to put ROFR and possession of the dog in the papers. She waited almost 2 months after X and I signed the papers to file them AND didn't even put the date of the divorce hearing on the papers. I didn't know to look for those things. I just wanted to be done with him.

People change for different reasons. Just because they are cordial now, doesn't mean they will be later.

kkny I agree with you on that. My DH mostly picks her up himself. Sometimes he gets off of work at 1 or 2pm and is already home. I get off at 5 and work 2 miles from the sitters so I just pick her up on my way home. Instead of DH making an extra trip to go get her. Plus she gets to play with the other kids and her sister for a couple of hours.

Well he is at the lawyers right now so what is done is done.

Pseudo...he did clarify summer vacations and all that in there. Also clarifed extracurricular activities. She horseback rides on Saturdays now and they way it works is you pay for the 6 months of lessons in advance. So BM agreed to it on her weekends. But really she could change her mind at any time. So now it's on paper. And he's going to stipulate any verbal agreement to be in writing. So when it comes to renew another 6 months and she agrees we have something backing it up. WHew!! I hope we got everything right!

It gives each parent the right to contact every day prior to 8:30, with a minimum of every other night so that the child can't be consistently 'unavailable'. If the child is out of town that parent will make sure there is a call to the other at least every other day.

I like the way you look at transportation as all pick ups rather than pick ups and drop offs. That makes sense.