I meant adults take many years grieving, i didn't mean children. I think for adults to still hold on their past for so many years is unhealthy and it influences children in a bad way as well. I understand how hard it is though

My BF has a lot of anger towards his X, she left for TOM after 28 years of marriage. His grieving took a form of anger and it effects him and his health and frankly our relationship. I wonder if I would be able to stay in this realtionship, it effects me very bad. he didn't allow himself to grieve in a healthy manner, probably tried to move on too fast. His way of grieving is anger towards her, he doesn't want to be with her but his anger is very powerful. I don't think it is a healthy way. But i do not think that holding on somebody and being still in love with them after they left 9-10 years is healthy either.

FD, I know you meant spouses, not children. But Ima, it isnt always teh parent holding on. The feelings go both ways -- my DD is still hurting and her hurting hurts me.

FD, I dont know how long your BF has been divorced. They say time heals all wounds.

I know we feel the pain from our children. I also feel the pain my step daughter goes through every time her mom disappoints her. But, if a parent is distraught with grief for a very long time over their life, whether it's the ending of their marriage or other problems in their life, it's going to affect the children that much longer.

Children do hold on because when parents divorce, they divorce each other, not the child. The child may always hold onto the hope that their parents will get back together. It is very unhealthy for a parent to foster those feelings by hanging onto the same hope, which will only lead to the child being disappointed when it doesn't happen. It can be seen as normal for children to want their parents back together, but the reality is that eventually, they may realize that their parent's are not getting back together or that the parent's were not right for each other or whatever the situation is. They may learn to like or love their parent's new spouse. Sometimes, they are adults before any of that happens. And it's true, sometimes it never happens. Just as children don't usually appreciate everything their parents did for them until they become parents, they are not going to understand what happened to their family until they grow in maturity to understand adult relationships, and sometimes it only happens when you are in that situation. I think I got along best with my step mom because when I got into a relationship where I was raising my ex's children, I finally understood better where she was in my life. No, she didn't raise me but she had to deal with children that were not hers and until you wear those shoes, you can't possibly understand what it's like. Just as I can't understand how you must feel after being married for 25 years and having your husband cheat on you and leave you for another woman. I don't know that pain but I do know that life is short and it can be spent crying & hurting from the pain of what others do to us or we can pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and get back to living a life and making the most of it. I'm not implying that it's easy or done overnight. and time does not heal all wounds. Have you ever lost a child?

WOW! I am off the computer for a few days and sure missed a lot! I think that moving on is a healthy process that adults need to do after a marriage or relationship ends. After my first marriage ended I was devastated. I tried my hardest to make things work, not only for my but for my dd. My exh was just stubborn and immature and we could not make it work.

Years later, he is the one holding on to the unhealthy attachment. For years after we split he begged me to give things another chance. I had enough by the time I left, and by then he was just out of chances with me! He cried when I told him I was engaged, years after our divorce. He told me that he messed up and would always regret it.

Now I am married and I still feel his attachment to me is unhealthy. He has not been in a good relationship since we split, he always has girls on the side. And he feels the need to tell me about this. He tells me that he just can't be with one girl since me.

TOS, maybe you and him should get together. You could sit around together and wait for my marriage and your ex's relationship to end!

Sound silly? Well so is your attachment to your ex!

Love is PERMANENT. If you can "stop" loving someone, it means you never really loved them in the first place, that it was merely infatuation. It takes as much as 2-3 years for the infatuation, the chemical changes in the brain, to wear off - if, after four years or so, you still love your spouse then you can be pretty sure that it is mature, real love.

Sorry, I briefly forgot, Ima, about your 7 year relationship. I believe you did say though that after a few years you were only staying for his kids.

And I think I am a whole lot happier than the stepmothers here who complain constantly about their stepchildren and how their husbands don't stand up for their wives, spend too much money, let their children get away with too much, etc., etc. At least I can raise my kids pretty much as I see fit, and nobody is spending my money except me. I'd be even happier if I actually had more of it to spend. After reading all those posts in the "would you do it again" thread I think I am a lot better off than those women who "moved on" only to get way more than they bargained for.

kkny, it hasn't been long enough for him, he met me too early and it prompted his "moving on" too fast. I probably made a mistake by staying, I knew he wasn't ready. But in any case his trauma wasn't just due to her unexpectedly leaving. She had few affairs earlier in the marriage that she confessed and he stayed (I doubt he forgave, in fact I know he didn't, he spent most of his life angry at her). When she finally left for TOM he felt that he made a mistake not ending marriage when it happened first with different person/people/man/woman-seems she likes both. Also after she left he discovered some more evidence that led him to believe that she had more affairs than she confessed. Pl;us she is uninvolved with their DDs, doesn't help at all. What he experiences is: he wasted his life on her. Wrong victim mentality, but that's what it is. Not to sound mean but X is exceptionally unattractive woman and doesn't take care of herself besides everything else. I know not all about looks but it is a mystery to me in regards to her.

Anyways everyone needs to grieve and take time to heal, it hasn't been long enough for him, but certainly I hope he won't spend his whole life grieving.

"I think I am a lot better off than those women who "moved on" only to get way more than they bargained for."

Moving on doesn't have to include meeting someone new or having a new relationship. It means letting go of the old one that has ended. And it's just as unhealthy to begin a new one if you haven't let go of the old or to use it to move on. That's called a 'rebound' and it's not really fair to the person being used to rebound, which is why they usually don't work out.

and yes, I did stay in that relationship for the kids. The 'love' with him was NEVER infatuation kind of love. We were friends for almost three years before we began dating, so the total time was over ten years. There was a deep love, but it turned out to be more of a friendship love than a romantic love, which is part of why it didn't work out. It still required me to detach and emotionally move on. It was about three or four years before I felt that I had fully moved on. It was another couple of years more before I was ready to date again. And it gave me plenty of time to think about what I really wanted in my life and in a relationship.

No, Love is not permanent..But I guess I was just infatuated for 29 years!!!! LOL..Disagree with the notion, the longer the marriage, the deeper your attachment, I wouldnt put down the 7 year marriage just because yours lastest longer, as not as important or as deep as yours......Love chips away, day by day until there is none left...After 29 years, oh yeah, I moved on, never looked back, dont care about whats he does , wears, what his hobbies are, if he s happy or sad,if he has a girlfriend or not and yes we do have a child together, and that makes no difference to me.. dont have to have an unhealthy attachment to him because of that...I can say I appreciate his hard work and effort to turn the kid into a decent person(but we did that together)Happily remarried to a good guy and yep, moved on....Only problem is EXs unhealthy attachment to MY DH.....Lucky he s on to her too and does a great job of keeping her at bey.....Dont want this to sound cruel, I do feel for you, but its a person just like you that has me in knots every weekend.....

I remember attending a workshop about realtionships and psychologists who led the seminar explained how some people hang onto their past relationships or marriages for specific reasons for way too long.

First of all it excuses many of your own behaviors: I am still grieving, i am miserable, I still love him etc. Nobody can hold you up to any expectations: she is still grieving, let her alone. If you are still a victim, everybody feels pitty for you.

Second of all, it prevents you from taking a risk with new relationship. And even if you start dating, you are allowed to mess up a new relationship too. You are supposedly still not over your past. Your new partners (if you even allow youself to date) can not demand much from you: you are still getting over the past.

Third of all it makes you feel very important and focus on your own life and misery so much that nobody expects you to focus on anything else.

Overall holding on your past for too long is an excuse of not living your life to a full potential.

I also remember them saying that the best way to get over past relationships and victim mentality is to accept your own responsibility. It takes two people to ruin marriage or relatiosnhip. And even if you did nothing wrong and you were abused, you hold a responsibility for staying for too long in abusive relationship. In any case you share some repsonsibility in what happened. it is tough to admit you role in this, but it puts you in a driver seat and helps you to not feel like a victim. it helps to move on.

"It takes two people to ruin marriage or relatiosnhip."

But that is incorrect. It takes two people to maintain a relationship, but only one to destroy it.

"And even if you did nothing wrong and you were abused, you hold a responsibility for staying for too long in abusive relationship."

But what if she left after the first incidence of abuse? The relationship would still be toast. Would it still be her fault? What if the relationship ended because of mental illness or alcohol abuse? Is that still somehow the other spouse's fault? What if, as in a family I know, the husband gets hit by a tractor-trailer truck and suffers permanent brain damage, changing his personality dramatically. If that leads to the end of the relationship, is that still his wife's fault?

Why do people here CARE whether the ex-wives "move on" or not? If someone's loved one dies of cancer and they devote their life to raising money for cancer research, do you tell them they should "move on?" I doubt it - more likely they are admired for their commitment. Do you feel somehow threatened by the bond between the former husband and former wife? I suspect that is often the case.

Dotz,

And why are you in knots? What are you anxious about? Why does what his exW feel or do matter to you? Why does she take up so much space in YOUR thoughts?

TOS, people do not destroy perfectly nice relationship. Poeple usually destroy relationship that is already having problems, and usually problems are created by both. Or your partner is just no good and you share responsibility to choose bad partner for yourself. Of course if you leave after the first abuse, you don't share a responsibility. But most people do not leave right away and stay, so they share responsibility. And nobody becomes abusive one day and it does take time to build. Even if you trully did nothing wrong, you did choose a wrong person etc In most cases you knew about alchohol abuse prior to get into relationship or you denied the truth and didn't want to know. Of course sometimes you really trully did everything right but things just happen. I don't mean you have to beat yourself up, but i refuse to feel like a victim.

The only reason people care if X-wives moved on is because when they don't, it effects children, X and X's new partner. Other than that it is nobody's business.

when X-wife or X-husband do not move on, it doesn't mean they have some kind of special bond with former spouses. being obssessed with X's life is not the same as having spcial bond. Tos, You youself said you talk to your X only a half an hour a year, there is no bond. I have no feelings for my X and moved on loooong time ago, but I do talk to him regularly. So there actually is a bond of having a child together plus we are close to each other family members. He reguarly talks to my brother and I talk to his parents. So it is possible to move on and have a bond and it is possible to not move on and yet have no special bond.

Also sometimes people are not moving on because they are still angry at their Xs, they don't even talk to each other, hate each other and hate their X's cutrrent partners. So does it also mean they have special bond or just that they can't let it go and refuse to heal?

dies of cancer or leaves for TOW is not the same thing. being commited to cure the illness that killed your spouse is not the same as being commited to your spouse who left you for TOW. TOS, you surprise me. i know it is just an example but both situations are so different!

TOS is just making excuses for her unhealthy obsession over exh's life. She probably drills her kids about what goes on over there when they do go, that must be how she gets all her info on how his wife treats him (since she claims to only speak to him a 1/2 hour a year) And if you only talk that little then how do you know his wife always tells him what to say in the background? Does not add up.....someone has an issue with exaggeration!

Funny how TOS can come on here and pick apart sm's but can not take a good look at her own mess of a life. She seems to be a miserable person that hides behind the fact she was left for TOW. Bet her miserable nature probably led to the demise of her marriage, and maybe exh's depression...........

Oh wait....SAINT TOS DID NOTING WRONG! LMAO

Her own mess of a life? She has a job, and her kids are doing well. In my book thats not a mess of a life.

I love all the advice from "succesful" stepmoms, who are in one relationship after another.

"Why do people here CARE whether the ex-wives "move on" or not?"

I don't CARE if she's moved on, as long as she isn't causing problems in MY relationship. When the ex wife hasn't moved on and calls my husband to bring her a band aid because she ran out or calls him to ask him the phone number of their daughter's doctor (her daughter has gone there ALL her life) or she calls him to ask him for directions to the courthouse for their hearing, or she calls him to find out how much a part for her car costs, and when she isn't calling him, she's stopping by his work to talk or just hang out. It's not normal. He doesn't like it. He comes home and complains about it. He finally told her to leave him alone unless it had to do with their daughter and she got hostile with him. He's tried to be a nice guy and get along with her but when you have an ex that hasn't moved on and their behavior is affecting your life (and your new spouse) then YOU SHOULD CARE. If she wants to make a room in her house a shrine to my husband, I don't care. As long as it doesn't affect his child. (which it would since kids know when one parent is holding out hope. that's probably why your kids are so angry at him, because they see how much he's hurt their mom- and that hurts them)

kkny moving on doesn't mean being in a new relationship. Plenty of people moved on and do their thing remaining single but are not necessarilly still commited to their exes. Most of my adult life I was single by which I mean didn't date not just wasn't married. And at the same I wasn't attached to anyone from the past either, I moved on and did my own thing.

I think when you are left for TOW or TOM it hurts the most, but you wouldn't want to still be commited to that person. You would feel angry, but you would want to get on with your life and certainly not be commited to him/her. It must hurt a lot, no question. But isn't it why you would not want to be commited to them anymore and certainly wouldn't ever want them back after what they did?

ima,

So why do you care if I've moved on? I am certainly not causing any problems in your relationship with your husband.

My kids are angry at him because he has betrayed them, and because he continues to treat all but one of them poorly. One of my now adult kids said, shortly after he left, "How could he do that - he knows how I [the child] feel about adultery." You can't tell me they didn't feel it was a personal betrayal. (I am not certain he actually did know how she felt about adultery, but that is beside the point).

Finedreams,

No, I think it is a valid example. Lots of people dedicate their lives, perhaps even become obsessed, with something related to their loved one's death - whether through disease, accident, or murder - yet that is generally regarded as commitment or dedication. Yet when I say that I love my exH, somehow that bothers the SM's. I think it has something to do with insecurity on their part.

And the reason I know she always talks over him in the background - because half an hour of five minute conversations over about 9 years is still 54 conversations, give or take - and she has talked over almost every one of them.

Posted by kkny (My Page) on Fri, Feb 1, 08 at 19:35

"Her own mess of a life? She has a job, and her kids are doing well. In my book thats not a mess of a life.
I love all the advice from "succesful" stepmoms, who are in one relationship after another. "
TOS,
Emotionally her life sounds like a mess! Maybe it is just low self-esteem or maybe it is obsession....but longing for your exh 9 years after he left you for a woman he cheated on you with and is married to is not healthy! And her hatred towards sm's just because she does not like her childrens sm does not signal emotional success either! And as far as your comment on sm's who are in one relationship after another.....well that certainly does not apply to me! And even someone who has been in quite a few relationships that involved children has valid opinions about stepfamilies based on their experiences to bring to the table.....probably more valid than someone who is not part of a stepfamily (YOU!!!)

I am not SM so I do not feel any insecurity when you say you love your X. Even if I would ever become SM your love for your X would not cause my insecurity. I just feel kind of angry because this, pardon my language, moron cheated, doesn't treat his kids right, practically abandoned them, and you say you love him! I don't know what kind of love you mean, but you sure deserve better than still loving a complete jerk after 9 years! I don't like when other women are abused or when they are made fools off or are mistreated. What he did to you and espcially kids is unacceptable and that's precisely why still loving him makes no sense to me, and it is not reciprocated! Why on earth would you want to continue holding onto him and carrying so much? Let this jerk go.

Well said finedreams! TOS claims to be a "professional" who is college educated. I guess book smarts does not always go hand in hand with common sense!

Love is unconditional (yeah, I know that's a title of a country song, but true nonetheless). One of my kids used to think that if you were angry at someone, that meant you no longer loved them, at least during the time you were angry. I assume most mothers would disagree - I certainly love my kids all the time, even when I am angry at them. Same thing for my exH.

I don't think he is a complete jerk. I think depression was an important factor, as is fear of financial insecurity. (Apparently fear of poverty is "Peniaphobia" - there's a name for everything I guess). He was a good man for well over two decades - probably more, before I met him. But that counts for nothing?

I think sometimes people only love the man they know someone could be, not the man they actually are.

"So why do you care if I've moved on? I am certainly not causing any problems in your relationship with your husband."

I don't really CARE if you've moved on. I really don't. I think it's sad, but I don't 'care'. and I agree with mom2emall, that your failure to move on or your obsession of him that you blame on his wife, well that hatred you have for her fuels the way you talk to all SM's and the way you present yourself here, so yes, in a way it does affect ME.

The love for your children is unconditional. The love for your parent's is unconditional. Maybe even grandparents or aunt/uncles and siblings. But an ex husband that cheated on you? Nope. What about an ex husband that beats up on you? or an ex husband that abuses your child? or one that goes on a killing rampage? Are you going to stand by your man, just because you're love is unconditional? What if he cleans out your bank account and leaves you penniless. (with children) or does a fraudulent joint tax return and you go to jail for it or have to pay for what he did? Where do you draw the line between what you will accept under the blanket of 'unconditional' love?

TOS only love between children and parents can be unconditional. All other relationship require some form of reciprocation. Love that doesn't require anything not even a regular communication is just a type of erotomania and obsession. It is not in a human nature to love completely unconditonally unless we talk about our children. Even when they mistreat us or abandon us and we never see them again, we will love them. All other cases require some form of communication between people and reciprocation. For love to continue existance it has to meet our needs: emotional closeness, intimacy etc.

How can love that you describe can meet your needs for emotional intimacy? You don't even talk or see each other much.

"Do you feel somehow threatened by the bond between the former husband and former wife?"

I don't think most second wives feel this way. I know I don't. The bond that existed is in the past.

I think that if your truly in love with someone and they do what your ex did to you then that love fades and eventually goes away. To keep "love" so long for someone who ended things so poorly is more like the infactuation you mentioned before in the beginning of relationships.

My ex is a great father most of the time, and was a wonderful friend to me before we dated. He was great boyfriend for the first few years of our relationship, but then he began to drink a lot and treat me horribly while I was pregnant and after our child was born. I loved him dearly at one time, but that love faded and over time disappeared. I still care about him and would not wish anything horrible on him, but I do not concern myself with his gf's or daily life. And even if I was single I would never have taken him back after how poorly he treated me during such a difficult time in my life. Maybe I just value myself more than you value yourself?

NO HIS GOOD DOES NOT COUNT FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE!!! Stop excusing your exh's behavior to depression and financial insecurities. He was a jerk, and obviously still is! GET OVER HIM and stop this "I still love him because we were married so long" BS. You do sound like they typical abused woman. People ask battered women why they stayed and many say "because I love him". Pathetic! It is not love, its fear and/or obsession.

tos, i don't think just leaving you makes him a jerk. But he abandoned his kids, doesn't see them much, doesn't want them around etc Depression or finacial needs is not a good excuse. If he was a good man for 20 years, it is good, that's why you loved him, he is not as good anymore-not taking care of his kids the way he should, so you can remember good times but loving him now?

you can forgive your X and have a good relationship with him, but loving him just because he did something good over 10 years ago is too funny.

I think forgiveness is important and it is healthy.

But to continue to love someone who did what TOS' husband did, is not healthy. I don't care about the tears he shed in front of the counselor and I don't care about his depression. He didn't turn around and stop what he was doing. He charged ahead and he left his family.

His character may have been good for a good many years, but that all changed when he had an affair and trashed his own family for TOW.

and even after he left his wife he could still be a good parent to his kids, but he doesn't even let them to come over as to not upset his current wife. this alone would kill any kind of love in me. People who mistreat my child don't deserve my love. and tos can blame SM for it. he is the parent not SM, it was his choice to ignore his kids. he is depressed, so what? what a great excuse..

TOS seems full of excuses for this man. It is really sad that someone can be so attached to someone who has hurt them and their children so badly, especially after such a long time has passed. Maybe some counseling will help TOS find closure with her marriage and let her get over her feelings for this man so she can move on with her life and stop letting him take up so much space in her head on a daily basis. Usually TOS annoys me with her jumping all over stepparents, but right now I feel sorry for her. It must really be awful to be so hung up on your past.

TOS The reason my stomach is in knots, is that I dont know, week to week,what kind of crazy behavior, EX (I m all over it now,as she says is ) going to exhibit at SS s basketball game... I m a pretty conservative person. And when NUTJOB is there, you never know what will happen.. Grandma, (her mom has assaulted me and told me MY DH will ALWAYS be her son in law)Was UM....... sorta offended cuz HE ALREADY HAS A MOTHER IN LAW

well dotz, I know that knots in the stomach feeling (read my thread 'frustrated') Every week it's something new. Today, she didn't disappoint. She threw a fit because DH (CP) told her she needs to stop taking SD out of school early on Friday's. She's NCP and is supposed to pick her up when school lets out at 2pm. Usually, she calls and says she'll be here at 3 or 4, then it was 6 or 8. It's been as late as 9:30. When she isn't late, she pulls her out of school early. She's never been "on time". He's let it go several times but he finally took the order to the school and said no more. Now she's claiming he tricked her into signing it. She's also saying that I am being abusive to her daughter and that we don't inform her of anything. DH had told her that he is concerned about SD missing time from school (because in addition to being taken out early, SD has missed school on Mondays after getting sick at BM's) and she's struggling to keep up. (she had to learn a lot of 1st & 2nd grade math concepts this year in 3rd grade because when she was with her mom before, her mom was doing a lot of her homework for her if she didn't get it.) She's doing much better now but still a little behind where she should be. Well, BM says that the reason she is doing poorly in school is because of the treatment she gets from me. Let's see, I get her up and make her breakfast & pack her lunch. I am there after school and help her with her homework. I cook her dinner. I take her to counseling. I buy her whatever she needs. I take her to girl scouts. Yes, I'm the problem. I'm the evil stepmother. and she's the victim in all this. DH tricked her into signing over physical custody three weeks after she met some guy and moved three hours away. We're the horrible people that are keeping her from her baby, because she can't pick her up an hour or two early from school. I'm the terrible person that feeds her baby oatmeal instead of ice cream for breakfast. and how dare I tell her baby to take a good shower.. oh, the wickedness of ME!!!

Sorry for the RANT. It's been a stressed day... or just another Friday.

I disagree. Love is unconditional. Period.

There are some circumstances under which you wouldn't want to be in the same vicinity as your child, too - such as if he or she had tried to kill you. But you would still love your child.

Love has nothing to do with whether or not you would want someone back, or whether you see them often, etc. You can still love someone who is dead, for Pete's sake.

Perhaps I should have done everything I could have to have made the OW's life a living H***. Maybe I should have been calling my exH multiple times a day to ask what size shoes my kids wore.

If you love him as you say, wouldn't you want him to be happy and not miserable? if love is unconditional, you don't want to make their loved ones life's H** and want to see them happy. If you would terrorise his wife, it would hurt him as well. Both of them would be in a living H*** I don't want people whom I love to be unhappy and hurt. Your love is not unconditional, you are just angry at him and her (and rightly so) and feel that if not adultery you would still be together. You just cannot let him go because it hurts so much and maybe you wished you did somehting about it. But this is not unconditional love. Unconditional love is to let your loved ones go and be happy with whomever they choose. That's how we love our children. that's not how we love our partners, and definitelly not our Xs.

IMA, No problem with the rant..Thats what we re here for....Now lets plan for our usual Saturday morning Secret Society Of Stepmoms Cocktail/ Bash the REALLY GOOD BIO MOMS Party, Same time, same secret location!!! LOLOLOL

hahaha. As long as you don't bash me I let you, SMs, to have your secret party. lol

I will be there with you dotz and ima. Maybe we could invite TOS's dh's wife...she is a stepmom :)
Wouldn't it be interesting to hear her perspective on SAINT TOS?

PPPSSTTT Pass the wine and cheese please OMG Did you hear what Fine and TOS said this week??? SSSSHHH Whoops, there hhhheeeerrreee...LOLOLOL Fine, thanks for the laugh after a week of heartwrenching posts....Have a great weekend all

I love my children unconditionally. Unconditional love DOES NOT mean being ok with your children being happy with whomever they chose, or doing whatever they chose. What if whom they chose was YOUR boyfriend? Or your best friend's husband? What if joining the Mafia made them happy? What if embezzlement made them happy? What if shooting up on heroin made them happy? What if putting as many notches on their bedposts as possible made them happy?

The same concepts apply to my unconditional love for my exH.

Unconditional love for an exspouse who left you 9 years ago and married TOW, and neglects his children? Sounds pathetic......

No, just unconditional. By definition.

In parent-child relationships, the unconditional love is (usually) reciprocal. When a loved one dies, obviously it can't be reciprocal. But when it's one sided, it's sad. He's moved on and whether or not he's happy with his current wife, he obviously doesn't feel that same unconditional love for her. It's normal to care for someone when you are in a long term relationship, especially when they are the parent of your children, but caring is not the same as love.

IMO Love is not permanent or unconditional. Love is like a plant, it needs to be nurtured and cared for. I think people confuse love with need and the need might always be there, but not love. My love runs right along with respect. If the respect is destroyed it damages the love.

Well I am glad I am not in jonesy's immediate (or not immediate, for that matter) family.

I am curious about something. You make a distinction between "infatuation" and "mature love." (A distinction which I agree exists, by the way).

In making this distinction, you seem to always do so in the context of time....that the length of a relationship alone somehow determines the depth of the love.

Am I correct in my understanding of your thinking on this? If so, how long does a relationship have to last/endure for you to judge the bond between the lovers/partners/mates/spouses, etc as qualifying as "mature" love?

Looking forward to reading your response.

The chemical changes that occur in the brain that are associated with infatuation typically last no more than 2 to 3 years. If you are actually in frequent contact with someone (if it is a long distance relationship the infatuation stage can last longer), and you still love the person after three or so years have elapsed, it most likely has changed to mature love.