He is certainly within his legal rights to insist that BioMom follow the terms of the custody arrangement and share the cost and burden of traveling.

But is it smart? If the relationship is cordial and friendly, if taking things 'legal' would change that, and if Dad can afford it -- then those are all factors for him to consider.

I thinkthe burden of traveling the cost should be shared...and the biom should also make the effor to meet half way...
but the switching of schools and homes bother me...its sounds that their life with her is unstable.
How about taking custody? would your man be up to the challenge of taking custody of the girls so they can have a steady home, one place , not moving about?

I agree with Maria. Unfortunately Sweeby, sometimes things are only 'cordial and friendly' when one person is doing all the compromising and the other person is getting their way. It only becomes a problem when the 'doormat' stands up for themselves. If the situation is truly cordial and friendly, he should be able to voice his concerns and ask that she bring the children as scheduled and discuss his concern about her moving his kids from school to school. If she reacts with hostility that he wants her to be reasonable by doing what she's supposed to be doing (in bringing the kids to him), then it's not really a cordial and friendly relationship. If the situation were reversed and he was supposed to bring the kids to her, I am sure that she would not sit quietly and say nothing if he failed to do so. It may only be a friendly situation is she's allowed to ignore the court order to take the kids to him and she's allowed to move around as she pleases.

and I don't know how much he makes but 3k a month in support is A LOT. Especially when he has to bear the expense of going to visit them and only gets to see them every other month. At the very least, I would look into going back to change the support to reflect the cost of visiting. Obviously if she isn't bringing the kids, she doesn't have that expense and if that's part of the support amount, it should be changed.

"Unfortunately Sweeby, sometimes things are only 'cordial and friendly' when one person is doing all the compromising and the other person is getting their way. It only becomes a problem when the 'doormat' stands up for themselves. "

You're absolutely right - without question.
And it isn't fair.
But my concern was for the welfare of the children rather than the 'fairness' to OP's husband.
I do hope that it's possible to have both -- but sometimes it isn't.

I dont think anyone except the BF can say whether 3K for CS is a lot. Depending on what he earns, it could be less than state standards. Everyone here is from different economic standards, and it can be hard to tell. He may even know about raises/bonuses that may increase that number. X may have agreed to a number less than state standards subject to her being able to move to low cost area.

"I think she knows the extent she is gouging and manipulating him because she has nervously agreed on more than one occasion to reimburse him for rental car, gas, etc. " Other people might say she has tried to be fair by paying by reimbursing for expenses.

In any event, if he has already agreed to her moving away, I think it is going to be tough to get around that.

OP can suggest to her BF that he try to get X to pay for monthly trips for him there. Presumably BF and his attorney will deal with it.

kkny, I agree. But my point is that the court may have given her more in support so she could bring the children to him and she's not. If it's worked into the support amount, she should be using that money to make sure their kids see their father when they are supposed to.

And he may have agreed to let her move away, but if she's moving from place to place, he may get around that by telling the court that he thought she was going to be stable and stay in one place. Now that she's proven she's not going to be stable, he may have a valid claim to seek a modification.

It never occured to me to pay for DD's tickets to visit dad or his tickets to visit her. he wants to see his daughter, so he pays. But then again he didn't pay 3K a month in CS. Most people don't make 3K a month, let alone paying that much. I wish i get that much CS, maybe then I would help him to pay for tickets. Other than that no way. It is his daughter too, not just mine.

Thanks so much for all the good discussion. A few answers and additions...

I am sure that BF would definitely love to have his daughters with him full-time in the future. He is a very involved and capable parent and maybe at some point things could change on that front. They absolutely adore him. He is so good with them - it makes me think of the kind of parent I wish I could be someday.

I think he is very cooperative in his interaction with the EX partly for the sake of his daughters and partly because that is his nature, but unfortunately there is not always a lot of reciprocity from her end; I have seen her hostility go from 0 to 10 very quickly. He is very smart to have phone conversations with her and then follow up with an e-mail summary so everything is in writing; she does the same.

I have been friendly with her on the one occasion we met face-to-face and I have gone out of my way to get along because (a) I know it is best for the girls and (b) I remember clearly how I felt about my father's GFs who were "rude" to my mom. (It was war!) She found out about me several months into our relationship, and started at first sending me e-mail forwards, then personal e-mails where she admitted her curiousity about me and that she had "Googled" me, then she requested that I be her friend on Facebook, etc. But although I have no problem with her, I know what she is capable of and do not want to underestimate or alienate her, so I have just limited our interaction and set some boundaries (she sees my limited profile on Facebook). She has seemed to be fine with that, and mostly the feedback I have gotten is that she thinks I am a responsible and nice person (but of course she gripes because I am ten years younger and blond - LOL). I also respect her right to know who is spending time with her daughters.

When it comes to recalculating the CS...BF saw his original attorney last fall and asked for it to be recalculated, but it is pending submission of her paystubs; through this process BF found out she now has a job but has never reported that income to the court. She also needs to submit receipts for daycare costs but is dragging her feet. I am not sure of all the details but apparently it was complicated...the wedding took place in one state, the divorce in another, now she lives in another state and we live in yet another...I do not know much on these issues and how these things are calculated but BF should probably get a new lawyer - his seems flaky to me and disinterested in doing his job to completion.

One good thing is that when BF asked to know what the money was going towards EX quickly enrolled the kids in many activities they had never been involved with before(horseback riding and musical lessons, gymnastics, etc.). They seem happier and less bored, too.

I tend to agree with Sweeby, that taking this to court for a modification may be justified, to get some of the fathers travel expenses taken into account, BUT, doing so will almost certainly cause tension between the parents and most likely will spill over onto the children.

Is it really worth it? its just money, and child support doesnt last forever.

Also, since there is a difference of several states, and the children are fairly young, you are likely to have custody limited to several weeks in summer and every other holiday, should it go before a judge and both parents not agree on every month.

You should always be careful which battles you pick, because sometimes you dont get the results you expect

After thinking on this, you would have to be making one helluva lot of money to have to pay 3k in child support for two children.

How is it that someone who is making that much money cant afford a car?

I wonder if OP's boyfriend is being totally honest with her.

Well, after taxes and retirement contributions, let's say BF is bringing in $75k/yr. That means every pay period he is paid approximately $2884. Half of that goes to BM, leaving approximately $1442 every two weeks. His share of the rent for a tiny 1-bedroom is $1500 and for the major metropolitan area where we are living that is a bargain. He still pays health and dental insurance for both daughters (and himself, of course), and makes heavy payments on tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt that even BM has acknowledged she left him with. Whatever is left over goes to entertainment, visiting the girls, oh and yes - eating! Hopefully this brings some clarity, because this man is working 70 hour weeks in a highly professional field and living like a starving student.

Unfortunately, where we live, many have high salaries (as I do) but the money just seems to go to the high cost of living and what it took to get us here (in my case, $60k of student loans).

Oh yes...and as for owning a car, it is cost-prohibitive and inconvenient in this city to own a car. Parking in our building runs $300/monthly and $27/day at the office, and of course you would also have registration, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. I am not sure what the percentage of folks owning a vehicle in this area are, but it is unusually low due to the circumstances. Luckily for us no-car people (which is hard for me still to acknowledge given that I really am a California girl at heart) we have a highly developed public transportation system. Many also rent zipcar/flexcar by the hour to zoom around and run errands.

there isnt a state out there ( not even California) that would require someone making 75k a year to pay out 2880 per month in child support. Your boyfriend must be paying alimony as well. YOur boyfriend probably agreed to it at the time because divorce tends to put people into shock for a while, and we agree to things that really arent in our best interest.

I would suggest that if he is making that little, he really should file for modification, regardless of what kind of tension it would cause. Since the support order was made originally in a state that you no longer live in, and the mother doesnt live in the original state either, you are required under UIFSA to file in the state of the other person. The person seeking modification must file in the state of person not seeking it. What state is the mother in?

what you DONT want , is the mother filing first, since california has pretty high support awards, and most southern states dont.

I have done the uifsa route. Its not that bad, and it sounds like it well may be worth it, since your boyfriend is being hosed.

The 75K is after tax and retirmenet contributions. That seems to be what OP are saying. That likely means over 100 gross, maybe 120 with contributions. so I am not certain the 36K is off the chart. As to the old CC, if he agreed to that in the divorce, it is over and done. But all OP can do is suggest her BF discuss with his lawyer.

My understanding is that no alimony was or is being paid, due to the fact that BM left for TOM, who she then married as soon as the ink was dry on the divorce decree.

As for visitation, I will suggest that BF discuss with his lawyer, or better yet, hire an attorney that is willing to really give the situation the looking-over it deserves. I know he would never want to do anything to cause tension or to take away his financial support of the girls. But one thing that definitely needs to change is the element of the distance and its effect on visitation. It just makes me so sad to see a loving parent have to jump through such hoops to see children. I think it is natural to wonder about other people's situations, and compare notes on how they make it work. I really appreciate the answers from the ladies who have weighed in.

I think Kathline makes a good point in saying that sometimes shock causes people to not see things clearly; BF is from abroad and I think had no precedent to understand the ugliness of ("American") divorce.

oops, me bad.

I read right over the part where she said after taxes and retirement. It still seems high, with the travel cost, but no longer out of the realm of possibility. ANd you are right, with retirement, there is no way of knowing how much he puts away for that, so he may be making quite a bit.

Part of the award is probably for her daycare costs, which mom is required to show proof of. I know in my husbands case, when they were first divorced, he was required to pay his ex wifes daycare costs, which she estimated at 7500 per year. It turned out to be 3500 per year, and child support was adjusted accordingly.

Just as a thought, the two girls are old enough to fly as unaccompanied minors on direct flights within the usa. If you take the visits back for a court ruling, it might be worth exploring the possibility of flying the girls for visits, rather than your boyfriend driving across country, staying in a hotel, renting a car, etc. It also will help the girls feel more at home with their father, if they can experience time with him in his own home, rather than in a hotel somewhere. Certainly for summer visits at least, they can spend some time at your boyfriends home.

I dont think a five year old should be flying as an unaccompanied minor, even with her 9 yr old. My DD flew as an uncompanied minor when she was 10, on a non-stop flight, AND THE AIRLINE STILL LOST HER. WHEN X WENT TO PICK HER UP THEY HAD NO RECORD OF HER. GRRRR.

5-year-old? No, absolutelly not. We have years of experience with UM.

DD used to flight as unaccompanied minor starting age 10, several times a year back and forth (10-11 hour flight total with one stop in between) and most of the time she was left by herself with very little supervision if any etc Luckily she was always very responsible. It is amiracle nothing happened to her.

Unaccompanied minor is not something to use unless you are very desperate, and no 5-years-old absolutelly "no"!!!

British Airways seem to be the best with unaccompanied minor system. Northwestern/KLM is very bad. Lufthanza is OK with the exception when they insisted to speak to DD in German which she doesn't speak. lol Don't remember about others, we used so many of them

my BF's X left him for TOM and yet insisted on alimony because some time ago she only worked part time. In our state it is no fault, doesn't matter who left who.

out of curiosity did she get alimony??

My son has been flying as an UM since he was 7. He is now 14, as of yesterday :), and we havent ever had a problem. Mind, he was flying non stop flights only, until he was 11.

My ex husband and I split the cost of flights for my sons visits, and when we realized that instead of paying for three flights, since someone would have to accompany the child there and back before and after the visit, we could pay for one non stop, then my son would be able to visit that much more frequently.

I dont think i woould have wanted my son flying overseas as an UM though. NOn stop flights are pretty hard to screw up.

You have to balance the need of the child to spend time with dad, against the finances of the visit. I think the children benefit greatly from increased time with dad, and that can only come if people are willing to look at all options to make it affordable.

Kathline,

Let me tell you what happened to my DD on a non-stop flight from New York to Washington DC. I take child to boarding area (which let me add in todays security world, when you get a "gate pass" to take a child to the gate, it is an automatic search for you). I pay the fee for unacompanied minor. Take child to boarding agent. Complete paperwork. Child gets on plane. Bad weather. Plane delayed. Other flight combined with childs, more people get on. Plane goes to Washington. Flight attendatns have no record of UM. Child gets off plane and is walking around airport. FLIGHT ATTENDANTS COULD CARE LESS, THREATEN TO ARREST X WHEN HE COMPLAINS. PRESIDENT OF AIRLINE CALLS X THE NEXT DAY TO TRY TO APOLOGIZE. In short, the airline personnel dont have the time OR INCLINATION to care for UMs, even if you pay for the fee. And thank god, my DD is old enougth to go to bathroom etc. WHAT HAPPENS IF BAD WEATHER AND FLIGHT REROUTED??.

I would probably have hit the roof and expected compensation from the airline, if I had been you.

Things can certainly happen, there are no guarantees. However, overall, UM service is pretty safe for nonstop flights, and people who use it regularly are usually satisfied.

I dont think anyone should be forced into it, however, the way the courts handle it here, is if the child is old enough to fly UM, then the parent who objects to using UM service is welcome, at their own expense, to accompany the child on the trips. Otherwise, UM will be allowed.

I admit, I was nervous when my son first began flying UM. I am not at all nervous about it any more, but perhaps that is because I have had seven years, on average 12-16 flights per year, where my son has flown UM and nothing has happened. I am sure if I had a nasty experience like yours, particularly early on, I would feel differently about it.

Yes there was compensation, but I dont think anything can make me forget the time when we coudnt find DD.

I also worry about children being molested by someone sitting next to them (yes that has happened, once the press reported by a relious official -- unbeleivable).

no, she didn't. she makes good money and the fact that at some point long time ago she was making less means nothing, when lawyer told her that she withdrew the claim. BF pays for SD's college and other stuff, mom contributed nothing starting the day she moved out. She got huge inheritance going her way (over a million) and she got a lot of his retirement and half the house etc. When she kept talking about alimony, BF's lawyer said that if she insists then lawyer will expose multiple affairs that BF has prove of, and one of the affairs was with a former student of hers (she is a high school teacher). She got scared of publicity and withdrew the claim. She makes good money so what alimony was she talking about?

DD had no other choice buy fly oversees with UM, way too expensive for anybody to fly her back and forth. Yes, first couple of years I thought I will have a heart attack, but I got used to. She still flies back and forth, now between 3 countries, but she is grown now.

good for him..I was just curious... because I was thinking there is no way I would give one cent to someone who did that to me. But, then the courts have a wacked out version of what is right and what is fair sometimes.

she also moved out when he was on a business trip and took the whole house with her, all the furniture, dishes, everything, she only left his bedroom (she had her own bedroom) in tact. She didn't tell anybody she is moving out, when he returned home and found empty house he found a note from her that she is moving in with B.. and she left a voice mail to DDs: "I left dad and moved in with TOM". DDs were upset she didn't tell them. He never asked compensation for the furniture or anything else. When I met him his house had nothing in it, no chair to sit on. And she had guts to ask for alimony.

PS
and two days before moving with TOM she took BF out on a date, comedy club and a restaurant and acted very affectionatelly, in the meanwhile she already had apt rented with TOM and moving truck arranged. BF had no clue. and she dared to ask for alimony!

I am not the judgmental type, and I really believe you never know the reasons for someone else's decisions until you walk in their shoes (if you ever even can). I also do not consider myself terribly naive.

But I have wondered time and again why my BF's EX did what she did. By that I mean, have an affair, decide to leave her husband after getting a new mortgage and breastfeeding second daughter, ransack the house while BF was at work and leave a mess in front of her daughters, use BF's inheritance money to move them several states away, secretly remarry, and buy and subsequently have to sell several houses and have the kids change schools because she and new hubby did not plan their budget well. I have wondered to the point where it is unreasonable of me - some things do not and should not make sense.

Her actions are, of course, more of a function of her personality and whatever she felt the situation was than the fact she is a bio-mom or whatever other role she may fall into. If someone has a history of displaying weak, selfish behavior, the same can be expected in the future. Even if she despised her husband, anyone who knows him could see what a devoted, capable and attentive father he is. It is really a shame to have moved so far away for the convenience of having built-in babysitters in the form of relatives. I am always shocked to hear when her plans for bringing them north every other month (per court order) inevitably "don't work out" that she tells them, "I don't know why you can't see your dad - ask him to explain."

Whenever I enter into an agreement with someone, if I am compelled to leave it I do so with dignity and respect for all involved. The saddest thing was when his older daughter at the age of 8 said to us, "Mom said she left you so that she could finally be happy in life. But she still doesn't seem happy to me." Kids should not be burdened with worrying about these things. I am a child of divorce and I remember the pain well.

I agree with nocalgirl, I don't judge when people decide to leave marriage. If you are unhappy, leave. But do it more or less nicely. At least inform the other party and the kids. Don't just dissapear. BF admits that he did a lot wrong too, it is not like he was an angel, but he deserved dignity to be told that she planned leaving.

And really you are not taking your husband of 28 years to a comedy club and a nice restaurant, sit there and laugh, when you already ordered a moving truck and have a new place rented with TOM. It is plain cruel.

kkny,

That must have been horrible. Just reading about it makes my stomach churn. Your daughter must have been terrified. There is absolutely no way I would let my 12 year old (who is, admittedly, more than a little oblivious as well as a little scared of flying) fly as an UM. My oldest flew overseas when she was 16, then had to take a train by herself (the Luftansa folks were very helpful, and did speak to her in English). There is a world of difference between a 12 year old (at least my 12 year old) and a 16 year old.

I was terrified. Was on cell phone with her Dad. I said she was on the plane. He said the airline said she wasnt. Apparently when the airline "combined" the two flights, they didnt notifiy all concrned there was a UM on the flight. the flight attendants are supposed to walk the UM off the plane and arrange for handoff. So to people who think short non-stop flights shouldnt be a problem, I say dont count on it.

Yeap, the whole UM thing suppose to work nicely and it is apparently not so. In many years of flying several times a year DD avoided accidents (not like poor kkny's DD had, awful) but she was left by herself a lot. At least that's what she said. Many chidlren fly UM without accidents, often that's the only option to get them where they need to be. It is unrealistic and way too expensive to fly them yourself all the time. I guess you just have to hope that nothing gonna happen.

This post is from many months ago...just a quick update.

BF advised BM a month or more ago in an e-mail that many things have changed since the custody agreement was put in place nearly four years ago, including his going from being a homeowner to a renter, having a car and then no longer having a car, both of the girls old enough to be in school and no longer needing daycare, the cost of gas, etc. etc. He stated that he thought she was disrupting the visitation by not bringing them here, and proposed to her that she begin funding his trips 8 hours away to her state so that he can see DD9 and DD5. She agreed, and not only that, she wired the cash! It was a real stunner. Now I am convinced that she is terrified of being taken to court for an adjustment. She later revealed in tears that she is supporting two homes and two mortgages and with the economy and the housing market the way it is, she wanted to cry poormouth. WELL, she has 2.5 salaries to operate on, while BF has .5, and hasn't got an owned thing to his name, so how does she think he feels?

Apparently the girls will be coming to us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and I am crossing my fingers that it happens! In the meantime, I turned 30 recently - now she can no longer roll her eyes and say I'm that blond in my 20s!!

"I turned 30 recently - now she can no longer roll her eyes and say I'm that blond in my 20s!!"

LMAO ~ too funny!!!

I'd also suggest that he get any changes/agreements in writing, even if it's via emails that he can print out. Good luck!!!