I second the "there are way too many factors" to be able to determine how many days until harvest. Further, with "tenders," there are some varieties that are more adapted to colder nighttime temps, I think that those are the "early" versions, in tomato-speak? I have one variety this year that is supposedly 50 days, so we'll see. Of course, I have one variety of seed in my stash (I've never planted it) that is supposed to be so reliably self-polinating, and able to tolerate much cooler temps that it's supposed to be able to bloom and set fruit before you even see the bees. I can't remember what it is called offhand (maybe an "Arctic" variety?), but I do remember that what research I was able to do indicated the flavor wasn't worth the plant taking up a spot in my garden. All I know is when the first 'mater comes, it happens, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into something better than the pink mealy things that I occasionally break down and have in the wintertime. I'm in the beggining to harden off phase with my seedlings now, and my babies braved the cool last night--I think it got down to 57, which was warmer than the predicted 50. Do you think 3 degrees would make a difference, had they been planted out? This is where the debate really gets silly (considering the "all other things are never equal" angle), does 59 matter? what about 58, 57? 55? When does that extra degree REALLY make the first harvest later? Ultimately, I use the "days to maturity" as a guide to try and figure out which tomatoes will be likely coming earlier and which will be later in the grand scheme that is my garden. And I take it kind of like I take the weather forecast: besides baseball batting averages, the only folks that can be wrong SO often and still keep a job are those that predict the weather--and when I'll get my first tomato!

Sedona Beige. -- Eric

Lyfia, I hear you, but if the front "LR" was a dining room, in our family, it wouldn't get used. My entire life, I've always had an eat-in kitchen--grandparents have eat in kitchens, etc. When I lived in the midwest, everyone had a dining room in addition to the eat-in space, the the dining room was just really a craft area that got cleared 2x a year for large family gatherings. Both sets of grandparents live about 3 hours away, where the family farm also is. So, for larger family gatherings, we are much more likely to be at the farm (either at the grandparents' house, or the cousins) than here. 8 adults is probably the most I'll need to accommodate; a few more if you count kids, but kids are also happy to eat in a different spot than the adults. I think it most likely that if I had a really large gathering (once in 3 years that it might occur), I'd set up a separate table either in the LR or the FR to accommodate the extras. I like to use my peninsula now, as a "bar"/buffet area for those large type gatherings. Which brings me to Peke's long comments (thank you!)-- I would like to be able to have multiple areas in the kitchen where a couple people could work simultaneously without needing to occupy the same space. I think I prep like you--I'd be fine with a 32" counter space. But, I would also like the flexibility, that while I'm working in the 32" counterspace, someone could pour themselves a glass of milk without having to be in my space. Or, someone could be mixing brownies, say, and I could be prepping the next ingredient, without having to reach over them (that is getting more and more difficult as my older daughter is about armpit height now)... A lot of the time now, that mixing is done on the kitchen table (which means I'm carting water from sink to mixing bowl at the table, etc). Or, I just kick everyone out of the kitchen and do it myself. So, I envision the peninsula/island/extra counter to be another spot for someone to be able to work, without clogging up the whole kitchen function. I still want to keep a dining table (as opposed to a counter) because we do make an effort to eat, nightly, as a family, facing each other, etc. There is no TV in the same room or on during dinner. So, our dinner times really are the family conversation time. We've been lucky enough to make that choice and have it work well for our family. Our girls also really, really love that time. Bedtime is smoother when we've had that too. If I understand an eating counter correctly, they are more likely to sit everyone in a line (like what you'd see in most island bar seating arrangements). We prefer to sit in an L or C shape. My primary grocery is Costco (it also happens to be the closest one to my house). So, when I shop, things come home in bulk sizes. The walk-in pantry allows me to put too large items on the floor (and I can close the door). It really does function very well for me while still being fairly compact (since the door is an outswing, and on an angle. The inside is really shelves on 2 sides with a little extra floor space (and crawlspace access door)). The Family Room is games and toys. I really like Lisa's plan E, but also plan D. I think I can use the shape of the pantry in sena's recent post (21:23)--I also like the plan. And, YES! I DO LOVE GW for the amazing creativity, experiences shared, as well as eye to function that everyone has. In a few short days, we've covered many more iterations/variations of kitchen for my space than I've thought about for over a year! And, that is truly wonderful. My next Q to all you who are still reading: DO ANY OF YOU HAVE A DW/SINK relationship such as the one drawn in Sena's 21:23? (With the sink 90* to the DW)? I've never had this (which is why I've been stuck on a corner something). How does it work, as an efficiency thing?

TOS before defining my post "rants" and writing that i intentionally confuse your answers to scaruso with the answers to my las posts, please read it: my last post begins with : "Finally you answered to MY very simple question: "Would you like somebody collecting porn OF YOUR OWN CHILDREN and his father or stepmother not reporting him ? " Reread my last post and show me where I misquoted you, otherwise I will report you to the boards'adminstrator as somebody advocating not reporting sexual offenders (CHILD PORN COLLECTORS, even of just 2 images of prepubescent girls ARE SEXUAL OFFENDERS). It is time you came out from your moral and legal ambiguity on this point To get this matter absolutely clear, as it concerns the moral position and action to take in view of even the possibility of such an heinous crime like the sexual exploitation of minors, i will cite INTEGRALLY your next to last post. YOU wrote: "She did not say he had a huge collection of CHILD porn. She said he had a large collection of porn, which made her uncomfortable. She did not specify whether she was certain the girls (I assume they were female) were definitely children, whether the pictures were definitely pornographic or were pictures that were just inappropriate or creepy when in the possession of a teenage boy, or whether the pictures were taken by an adult or something that a girl took herself and stupidly posted on myspace. We weren't there so we don't know what was going on. My daughter who is in her mid-twenties was once mistaken for a middle schooler, and that was in person, not just from a photograph. How do we know that the "preteen" she referred to wasn't really 17? For that matter, how does one know that the "18+" pornographic pictures readily available on the Internet are not really of girls younger than that? Obviously no reasonable person wants anyone to take or possess pornographic pictures of their children. I wouldn't want anyone to take or possess any pictures of my children, period, unless there was a good, logical reason for doing so. No, I wouldn't expect his parents to report him to the police, especially if he were a teenager. I would want them to get him help from a mental health professional." This is your original next to last post. About its first statementI i must remind you and the board'administrators that EVEN THE SUSPICION of sexual exploitation of minors must be reported and investigated: if the said photoes are 2 or 100, of 17 year old or a prepubescent-looking 25 year old, according to the law against sexual exploitation of minors, can not and should be left to the judgement of the families and friends of the possible offenders... About the second statement , I see that you don't like the idea of somebody's having any kind of photoes of YOUR OWN children without good reason. So I will ask you for the SECOND TIME (the first was in my last "raving" post) why you find acceptable for somebody to collect naked photoes of somebody's else children, I would like a clear answer from such a moral, quick to judge person like you, always so certain about other people's and particularly step parents'behaviours. About the third statement of your next to last post: finding mental help for a kiddie porn collector is not acceptable in the eyes of the law for the simple reason that, provided that the sexual offender agree to get treated, while his family or friends find the right help, he is free to continue the sexual exploitation of minors. So the choice of reporting this kind of crimes is not given to parents, mates, spouse and not even to maids, cleaners, employees or even to anonymous web users etc..: if you stumble upon even of a dubious (even if it could be of a young 18+ and not a real 14) picture you must report it and if during an investigation comes out that somebody saw such a picture or site and did not report he can be charged with aiding and abetting and rightly so. BTW, if , as you say in your last post: "I have received spam with those words in the subject a couple of times, along with all the spam for enlarging body parts I don't have. Neither you nor I have actually seen the pictures." please report the sites you are receiving such a spam from so the relevant authorities can investigate them and you will not incur in the risk to being possibly aiding and abetting criminals. I don't see how a person like you, so invested in protecting children from any real and perceived ills and from a child-hostile culture , can be so carefree about this and condone even the possibility to be compliciting with children's sexual exploitation. I would expect somebody like you to be up in arms at the first whiff of child porn.. But maybe I am a 44 year old moralistic prude and you are a middle age tolerant and think-the-best-about-anybody-especially-if-a-stepkid lady.... Now, about your last post : - about your precisation in your next -to-last post on the difference between B&D and S&M: as in numerous threeads on this forum you expressed yourself vehemently agaist plain, vanilla dating for divorced and even widowed parents I was just curious about your open attitude on this particular activities, so I wrote (in my last post) : "And you are open and knowledgeable to bondage too, as I see from your last post: "I think "Men dressed in leather having sex with women in bondage" is B&D, not S&M, which involves pain": again would be okay for YOUR OWN ADULT CHILDREN to be involved in BONDAGE & DOMINATION as long it is not SADISM & MASOCHISM, involving pain ? Just let us know with a yes or no please, so we can know where you stand on this ... Maybe you feel that B&D (but maybe not S&M ?) is okay as long it is not adulterous" Really, I was just curious and I see that you answered me right on in your last post: "And why would I care if consenting single/married-to-each-other partners were into B&D, just because I have no interest in it?" So I understood correctly that you are okay with B&D for consenting adults (does this include your adult children ? for them you would approve B&D but not engaging in adultery ? and what about somebody collecting photoes of your adult children engaging in such acts? would it be okay for you once your children are old enough to give their consent ?) but NOT with plain vanilla dating for divorced/widowed parents ? Just let us know CLEARLY your moral opinion on this, you are always so quick to express yourself on any other matter regarding marriage, families and stepfamilies.... About the second statement of your last post: "Scaruso and her husband are in a much better position to judge whether the SS was actually committing a crime than either you or I. " Interesting . If according to you (but not the laws on Minors'Sexual Exploitation) scaruso and her soon to be ex husband are in a much better position than you and me to judge their stepson's porn collection, they are also in a much better position to judge if this young man is mentally ill or not so you had no business in writing in your next to last post (to scaruso) : "Since your H was adopted, he will probably never know the medical history of his parents, which could be relevant to your stepson's behavior. I know you disagree, but there is such a wide range of mental illnesses and behavioral disorders your stepson could be afflicted with. At a minimum, I am relatively certain he could be diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and executive function disorder." So the "incoherency" you accusing me of in your last angry post (you don't like it when somebody does not back off to your prepotence, isn'it) is all yours. Again, as in my last "ranting" post, I must ask you : "are you a trained psychiatrist ? are you licensed to diagnose online ?" Yes or not, please. If not, you are not more qualified than me on discussing this stepson'mental state and anyway, once again scaruso and her soon to be ex husband think he is not mentally ill (as according to you they are the most competent ones). So if scaruso and her soon to be ex are the most competent in ascertaining if this 26 year old is mentally ill and they think he is not, ALL your previous posts on mental illnesses in convicted offenders, serial killers, collectors of child porn -that according to your second to last post, should not be reported but helped by mental health practictioners- DO NOT APPLY HERE: if THIS 26 year old guy is not mentally ill, he can find himself a job, if he is collecting child porn (2 or 1000 photoes makes no difference) he should be in jail and not in a mental hospital... Lastly, i think the majority of posters on this forum see very well that you are ready to embrace any outrageous statement or position just to go against stepparents. I expect your apologies on the "intentional misquoting" (there was no misquoting, intentional or not) and "ranting" otherwise it will be clear to everybody as you are here in bad faith, just to badger and bully people coming on this forum to look for support and advice, kind and polite people that mostly try to ignore you (as I usually do at least when you are not advocating anything illegal, like not reporting the possible sexual exploitation of minors, or dangerous, like getting 8 year old girls sitting on the front seat) or even to be gracious and charitable about your bitterness and scorn.