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anwinesp

Nail-hole roof leaks

anwinesp
18 years ago

It snowed a few days ago, and the snow is still on the roof, because it's been mostly below freezing since then. The roof has a steep pitch.

I went up to the attic, and to my horror, I saw that most of the nails sticking through the ceiling from the roof shingles are wet and slowly dripping. This roof is only nine years old.

What can be done about this (short of replacing the roof, of course!)? I've called a roofing contractor, but he can't come until the snow melts.

Anne

Comments (12)

  • over_n_under
    18 years ago

    Call a different roofing contractor. You shouldn't have to wait until spring to get this figured out.

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  • sdello
    18 years ago

    The roofer didn't say wait until the spring, he said until the snow melts.

    For water to drip through the nail holes it has to be melted and essentially standing. You say the roof has a steel pitch. It should run off unles there is something blocking it.

    You don't say where on the ceiling that the water is coming through. High near the ridge, or low near the eaves?

    Sounds like you have an ice dm problem, but without kowing the specific geomtery it is difficult to figure out the water source. Could be a bad flashing at a peneration allowing water to get below the shingles from above.

    Pictures would help.

    I don't blame a roofer for not wanting to climb on a snow covered roof. You could hire someone to remove the snow as opposed to waiting until it all melts off. Again, this option depends on the conditions of the building. Multi-story, pitch, access, etc.

    HTH

  • sdello
    18 years ago

    sorry for the double post. I fixed the most obvious typos.

    The roofer didn't say wait until the spring, he said until the snow melts.

    For water to drip through the nail holes it has to be melted and essentially standing. You say the roof has a steep pitch. It should run off unless there is something blocking it.

    You don't say where on the ceiling that the water is coming through. High near the ridge, or low near the soffits?

    Sounds like you have an ice dam problem, but without knowing the specific geometry it is difficult to figure out the water source. Could be a bad flashing at a penetration allowing water to get below the shingles from above.

    Pictures would help.

    I don't blame a roofer for not wanting to climb on a snow covered roof. You could hire someone to remove the snow as opposed to waiting until it all melts off. Again, this option depends on the conditions of the building. Multi-story, pitch, access, etc.

    HTH

  • anwinesp
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thank you so much for the responses. Here's more info.

    We had replacement vinyl windows installed a couple of years ago, include the two side (gable) windows. Other than the two windows, the attic isn't ventilated. This is an old house and surely not properly insulated. If there is insulation in the attic (other than the walls, which are lined with thick sheets of polystyrene), it's under the floorboards. I would have to pry them up to see if there's insulation under them.

    I've create a link (below) to a picture of my house (coincidentally, the pic was taken when there was snow on the roof).

    There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to which nails are wet. It seems to be many of the nails, all over the roof---I checked a large number of them, and many were moist and some were dripping wet, even high, near the ridge. Some of the nails are indeed rusted, so this obviously is not a brand-new problem.

    I'm in central/northern New Jersey, and it has been unusually cold lately.

    Would it help if I opened both attic windows a little, so air moves across the attic and lowers the humidity?

    BTW, the snow will probably melt within the next few days. The roofer will contact me next week, the receptionist said. What kind of fix am I most likely looking at?

    Here is a link that might be useful: Picture of house

  • dwightrahl
    18 years ago

    If you have no ventilation in the attic (like ridge venting or "forget me not" vent boxes on the roof) I would think that opening the gable end windows to allow some air flow would be a good idea. But, close them if it starts to rain/snow/sleet so that you don't compound your moisture problems. Keeping the attic space cold will prevent the snow on the roof from melting over a warm area and then re-freezing over a cold one (which leads to ice dams).

    What is the condition of the roof sheathing where you have wet nails? Does the wood appear to be wet, or soft, or clearly rotting?

    Dwight

  • anwinesp
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    "What is the condition of the roof sheathing where you have wet nails? Does the wood appear to be wet, or soft, or clearly rotting?"

    Most of the wood is bone dry. I notice a couple of damp areas, however. There's no rotting or soft wood.

    I'll go open the windows now---thanks for your help!

    Anne

  • sdello
    18 years ago

    Is the underside of the attic heated space? or a floor with no insulation that covers heated space? So when you go to the top level of your house your looking directly at the underside of the roof deck with the nail points penetrating through.

    Based on this and looking at your picture, I suspect that, as jannsu said, you're getting condensation on the nail shaft from the humid interior air contacting the cold nail shafts, as opposed to your roof leaking.

    Short term band-aid might be to dehumidify the attic. Better solution is to isolate (with insulation) and ventilate the underside of the roof deck. This keeps the roof deck and roofing cold and insulate this from heated part of the house. Should also do wonders for your heating bill.

    HTH

  • dwightrahl
    18 years ago

    "Short term band-aid might be to dehumidify the attic. Better solution is to isolate (with insulation) and ventilate the underside of the roof deck. This keeps the roof deck and roofing cold and insulate this from heated part of the house. Should also do wonders for your heating bill."

    Just to add some detail to this excellent suggestion - to do this properly, you need to provide a path for the outside air to enter the attic, run along the underside of the roof sheathing, and then exit at the ridge. This is generally achieved by providing openings in the soffit along the eaves (use a hole saw to bore round openings into which fit "louvered" inserts, or cut rectangular openings and install grills much like the covers for indoor forced-air registers - either way, do this between each pair of roof rafters), install "proper vents" which are foam or cardboard "troughs", the edges of which are stapled to the roof sheathing and run from the soffit to the ridge, and finally, a ridge vent. Once the soffit openings, proper vents, and ridge vent is in place, you can fill the remaining space between the roof rafters with insulation and apply a vapor barrier (on the attic side of the insulation, not the roof side).

    If you do not allow a path for air to pass along the underside of the roof, insulating is likely to make your problem worse over the long haul. This is because the insulation can become damp, and finally wet, over the course of time, and actually hold moisture against the underside of your roof. This will lead to rotten roof sheathing, as well as deterioration due to the freeze/thaw cycle.

    Good luck,

    Dwight

  • anwinesp
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    To clarify: The attic is unheated space. There are floorboards, so we can walk up there (though not for the entire footprint, as the roof slopes down toward the perimeter). I see the nails coming directly though the roof deck. I don't know what's on top of the roof deck; the roof was done 12 years ago, so I would think it was covered in a relatively modern fashion.

    So you're saying I should insulate under the roof deck, rather than under the attic floor?

    Thanks again for all your help!

    Anne

  • dwightrahl
    18 years ago

    Hi Anne,

    You can choose either place to insulate, but from what appears to be happening, I'd guess that any existing insulation in the attic floor is probably inadequate, and is likely lacking a proper, continuous vapor barrier. I say this because it seems that the concensus is that warm, moist air is making its way into the attic from the rooms below, with that moisture condensing on the cold nails coming through the roof sheathing.

    If you choose to insulate the attic floor, you need to make sure that you have a proper vapor barrier between the insulation itself and the heated space below. The problem will be getting a continuous vapor barrier in place - this is much more difficult to do once the ceiling's drywall below the attic has been installed. It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination - it can just be somewhat difficult to acheive.

    If there isn't already insulation in the attic floor, I should think that the easiest approach would be to insulate between the roof rafters, and install a continuous vapor barrier, connected to the undersides of the the rafters. From an air circulation standpoint, and from an insulation standpoint, this brings the attic space inside the overall building envelope.

    If there is already insulation in the attic floor, you will need to remove it (as well as any existing vapor barrier that may be present) if you choose to insulate between the roof rafters. But, for that matter, even if you don't choose to insulate between the roof rafters, you should remove any existing insulation in the attic floor anyway in order to address the moisture infiltration issue that is ultimately leading to the condensation on the nails.

    If it was my house, I would likely remove any insulation in the attic floor and insulate between the roof rafters. This will have the effect of keeping the attic cooler in the summer, thereby lightening your cooling load for the rooms below. Plus, it's easier to get proper insulation and vapor barrier installed between the roof rafters than in the existing attic floor (just my opinion - others may agree or disagree...).

    Sorry for being so long-winded! Good luck!

    Dwight

  • anwinesp
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Wow, thanks, Dwight---and everyone else!

    Anne

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