Piddy, first being rescues who knows what occured or stress events prior. Some info. Salt ok for goldfish (well I raised them outdoors and inside as kid and used a pinch per Dr Innes) (I realize there are differing opinions on this so not judging one way or another) Unless you used huge amounts this mho had nothing to do with their deaths. (although I think I read somewhere it can exacerbate ammonia poisoning? BUT not sure if memory serves)(or was that help in nitrate nitrite poisoning) the old rule one inch per gallon (I read this and makes mucho sense) is ok for small flatish fish, but larger fish body mass needs to be considered. Ie a huge paccu for example might be 10 inches long well - the rule would provide a way inadequate tank size for such a fish. So need to go by mass. My first thought was too small a tank for four fish.. Just too much waste with goldfish so more tank for fewer fish. I said one in five gallon. That said they were relatively small, you had a filter, so that doesn't make sense to me, unless the water wasn't cycled, and fish waste (they are major waste producers) Had the tank been cycled? Ammonia spike that may have been missed? did you check ammonia? If you are changing water, is this such and amount (was filter new, ie no stuff, gravel or filter material with bacteria in it) that you cause recycling again. I have done much recent research on gourami disease and found also information on viral crossing with goldfish to gourami and other fishes now.. Almost epidemic overseas, an hidden... so could be something not to do with you at all. but, again, ammonia and too many fish in too small a space. Not re size but waste, esp if not cycled. How many water changes if not cycled - would need one a day. That said, I know when young some who had fish in bowls and they hung on for weeks and months sometimes longer as person changed water (ps was not me!) so maybe they were not well to begin with.. You as you say, have experience... sometimes in old innes book, he would say use water from pond or established tank, feed live worms, so on, salt water cure... to bring them about. Any other symptoms, spots, diseases that you notice. or just run down and die? Best Sherry How was their breathing. Gill coloration? Any obvious symptoms. Sometimes when I buy new fish, and am quaranteening one just quitely dies, just lays down and floats off. (I seperate and give low light planted tank for their ease) I figure they often have survived a nasty trip, horrible conditions at pet store (low ph, hose to fill tanks, guys often don't check temp, cooked some fish once, so on) so they just can't take it. poor things so maybe not knowing what they had been through prior, and even with your care in transportation, and new home they were just tired from stress and went over edge. (I make really long all day sometimes more water changes, dribble method (my petstore has extremely low ph 5, so go slow one degree in 24 hours is max per day. ) was the transfer to much a shock from where they were prior?

I'll tell ya what's the BIGGEST pain w/ bulbs. And this error in judgement was made our first planting season in our home (which is our 1st home). Hubbie insisted on landscaping fabric. Because as much as I LURVE gardening (read: addicted) from time to time, I get too immersed in other aspects of life (family, work, etc) and can't get around to weeding for a couple weeks. So, like I said, he insisted on landscape fabricing ALL the garden beds. Which is great in theory. A gi-normous PITA (pain in the *BLEEP*) in practice....particularly when it comes to bulbs. 'Cause low and behold, some bulbs seem to multiply. Like, crocus bulbs. And, apparantly, daffodil bulbs. So this past spring, I happen to notice these mounds of mulch in my beds. What's that?, I say to myself. Move the mulch only to discover tenting of the landscape fabric 'cause, yep, I've got new sprouts from new bulbs desperately trying to find their way out. **sigh** So this fall, I've gotta dig up ALL the bulbs I can find and transplant them to non-fabric'ed areas. And I must admit, as much as I love tulips, I haven't been all that jazzed about having them in the gardens. For what I planted in the last couple years I haven't exactly been thrilled with the result. I also think I made a BIG mistake w/ bulbs in general. I wanted color "here and there" in my very new garden beds (which equates to most of our yard). So I spread them out a bit. I'm finding that's not the way to go. So when I transplant, I'm going to do so in clumps. The lone bulb here and there (be it crocus or whatever) just doesn't paint a good picture come spring. Honestly, what I'm really considering is focusing on early/late blooming perennial purchases for the front yard and moving ALL my bulbs to the back yard. Having 'em all over the place doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

Wow--lots of good information. Westelle, I think the Central Valley may be comparable to our conditions here, so your listed plants are ones that will go on my list. Dicot, since our garden is on steeply sloping land, even with clay soil drainage is good. I let mints romp around in parts of my garden as well, but would Menta varieties grow in such dry conditions? I have a low-growing plant from a friend which I think is a catmint: I like it and am planning on taking bits of it to transplant to other areas for a low groundcover. I doesn't seem to interfere with daffodils coming up through it, is fragrant and pretty, and carefree. Do you use groundcover thymes? T. longicaulis is creeping and very handsome, there are the forms of T. serpyllum, and T. pulegioides is another good one. All these are fragrant, and well suited to droughty conditions. Thanks to both of you for your suggestions: they're really helpful. Melissa

I am probably not going to be posting many pics when asking questions any more because I find that too many people are only looking at the pictures, NOT reading the text, and thus their responses are either directly contrary to something I've said in the text (for instance "get rid of XYZ" or "the color of ABC is wrong" when I've already said in the accompanying that I love XYZ so it's not going anywhere or that the color of ABC is really more toward mauve when it shows up as puce in the picture) or have nothing at all to do with what I'm asking. I find that intensely frustrating. I have almost no pictures of my current house because it's still in "whatta dump" stage. No paint (walls need a TON of work), short on furniture, dreadfully designed kitchen that's a perpetual mess because there's nowhere to put things... and forget outside pictures, a few weeks ago we ripped out almost every trace of vegetation outside (and will not be replacing it until next year, probably fall '09 to get the end-of-season sales) due to a honeysuckle invasion that I swear was growing by feet per day and was starting to attack the porch. I'll happily post pictures of my previous house because I think I did a pretty decent job with it. We're not on Google Maps but we're kinda-sorta on Google Earth - but the best you can get is a fuzzy whitish blob in the midst of a bunch of other fuzzy whitish blobs on a fuzzy grayish stripe. No closeups. Our town is clearly not a high priority as far as Google is concerned! WRT security - we live in a somewhat iffy neighborhood so I am one HECK of a lot more worried about the people a dozen houses down the street breaking in looking for meth money than I am about someone trying to track me down via the Internet (I Googlebate every so often just to see what's out there re: me) from half a dozen states away. I've been email-stalked and -harassed a bunch of times in my 18 years online because of my outspoken ;-) opinions and my ISPs have always been helpful in dealing with it. However, I've had meet-ups with a whole slew of people I've met online over the years, twice flying nearly cross-country to do so, and it's been grand fun.