do you have your heart set on sub z? personally, i loathed mine (a search on the appliance forum will reveal some in love with them and some not...). how would you feel about 30" fridge/freezer (separate units) columns by thermador? (i think they also come in 24"). just my .02. good luck!

Citydweller--- I am planning the exact same layout as you! My wall is between 11- 12' to include the 36' rangetop (the wolf one), and then the 27" all fridge and 27" all freezer. I've also been worried about the space on either side of the range getting too tight. Somebody here (selling on ebay but in Charlotte) is closing his store (Downsview kitchens) and is selling his 27" subzero displays. They were the kind you are mentioning --- top fridge, bottom freezer drawers. I considered it, but got worried about having a fridge on the left and right (above) and the freezers all in drawers --- my husband swore we'd never remember where to find stuff! I decided I'd be better off with the subzero 27" all fridge and a 27" all freezer. They each have a drawer above and 2 drawers below. They look great with the finished cabinetry --- like a piece of furniture. But.... I just got all of my appliance quotes and the subzero was nearly $2000 more expensive per unit than the Thermador columns kateskouros mentions. I loved the door and drawers combo of the subzero, but thought I could even panel the thermador to look the way I had in mind (haven't checked that yet). For $4000 difference, and bigger fridges, it seems like it is worth considering! My mom had subzeros and she got so sick of it that one day she gave it to her cleaning lady! Anyway, keep us posted --- I'll be interested to see what you decide! How big is that wall?

I don't think it is weird at all.

Here are few pics
{{!gwi}}

I have a single Sub-Zero 27" and it has been fine, however I have the looming concern that if it ever has to be replaced it will have to be replaced with another 27" Sub-Zero, because it is the only built in of this width, that I am aware of.

If you worked with a 30" increment, you would at least have more flexibility as several manufacturers make built ins of a 30" width.

My heart is not set on Subzero, but the DH's heart is. My parents and his parents have SZ and swear by them. We also have a friend who is a authorized SZ dealer, and is given us a great deal on the two units. However if there is a better options I am all ears!

I looked at the Thermador website an the 30' food column is 17 cubic ft where the two 27s would be 21cubic feet. Not sure how big of difference that makes.

Mythreesonsnc-
The wall is 14' and includes the cook top is the 48 Duel Fuel Wolf. We downsized to 27' because I need upper cabinets on that wall for dish/glass storage. I originally planned on glass/dish storage on the far wall, but a lot of people on this forum mentioned what a pain it would be to trek back and forth with dishes. The original 27' plan was to do the all fridge and all freezer, but I thought 15 cubic feet of fridge space was too little, which is how we came to the idea of buying two of the fridge/freezer units. I am slightly concerned I will have no idea where I put items in two different units.

palimpsest
That is a great point I had not considered.
Thanks!

Can I just go on vacation an come back to a finished house and kitchen!? Someone should start a business!

I think palimpset makes a great point, but I would not worry about having four freezer drawers. Isn't one basic of organization containerization of like items? That is what the freezer drawers will give you. For example, you can put meats in one, frozen veggies in another, ice cream in another, etc..

I have a 24" fridge dedicated to the kids, and I love having drawers on the bottom (though mine are internal drawers). The kids don't stand in front of an open freezer looking for ice cream-- they know just where to find it.

I just wanted to comment that I have that 27" sub zero and it's wonderful. Very pleased.

Morton5-

I was thinking along those same lines, but for the DH. The one furthest away from my cooking area will be for the DH so he doesn't have to bother me while I'm cooking. It's a brilliant plan, hopefully it will come to fruition!

Pirula-
How many people are in your household? Are you ever wishing you had more space?

There are three of us and we entertain alot. We also have sub zero fridge drawers elsewhere in the kitchen. But we shop several times a week, vice stocking up. The fridges are never full, except before a big party. I've never not had enough space.

Morton5-

I was thinking along those same lines, but for the DH. The one furthest away from my cooking area will be for the DH so he doesn't have to bother me while I'm cooking. It's a brilliant plan, hopefully it will come to fruition!

Pirula-
How many people are in your household? Are you ever wishing you had more space?

we've got the SZ 27" all freezer and all fridges (3 weeks of usage so far!!) and LOVE them. I am amazed at how much space just the 27" fridge is providing us. Our family consists of DH, myself, 2 young girls and one on the way :). I, too was making myself NUTS with calculating cubic feet comparison charts. I should add that we do have a beverage center in the butler's that holds all the beer, wine, juice boxes and soda. I also thought of your idea (2 of the top/bottom configuration), but just for simplicity and fresh food organization we went with the 'all' units. I do think it will work for you, and the drawers for the freezer would be great for organization. Not sure if you wanted the ice maker, but this way you could get it in just one of the units - it does take up most of that drawer. Do consider the lack of drawers for fridge items though since they only would have the small compartment (I use it for cheeses). You would be really limited for your veggie/fruits storage.

here's some pictures to give you an idea of what you could fit!

freezer top compartment

freezer top drawer

freezer ice maker drawer

Fridge main compartment

Fridge - door storage

Fridge top drawer - veggie compartments

Fridge bottom drawer - I use for fruits

I've got mine separated - here's a view of that wall

HTH!!!

Thanks for the photos!!They really help visualize. I am going NUTS with how many cubic feet we will have/need. I am concerned with the lack of fridge drawer space we will have. If we get the two fridge/freezer units we will have a whopping 5 cubic ft more of fridge space. I have no idea if we need that 5 more cubic feet! In the DH's mind bigger is better! HA

Mairin, Your kitchen is BEAUTIFUL --- I already had it saved in my inspiration folder --- but I don't think I noticed that you had that fridge/ freezer set-up! So glad you posted again with them. Do you mind telling me how long your wall is (from the left of the farthest fridge (or freezer) unit to the right of the other one?

City dweller --- Your appliances are going to be great --- I'd buy the subzero in a heartbeat if I had a friend in the business! Keep us posted!

Mairin-

I totally forgot to mention, that I too love your kitchen! I remember you posts about the Ann Sacks tile or the back splash, and have been in kitchen envy since! My mind is totally focused on appliances today!

MythreesonsNC-

I can't wait for real appliances!! We have crap in out current condo. Luckily, the house came with a 30' Wolf that I'm going to move over to the condo to use for the next 1.5 yrs until we move in! Our friend deals with Bosch, Miele, and Wolf so we are very lucky! There is no way I would be getting these amazing appliances if she was not in the business.

mythreesonsnc: the stovetop/fridge/freezer wall is 195" long from end of fridge to freezer.

sfcitydweller: no matter your decision, you really can't go wrong! it's gonna be awesome. I have gone from using the cheapest of the Fridgedaire appliances from the ding and dent store in our old place to all these great appliances here - HEAVEN!! I can't stop baking and cooking.

thanks for the compliments - one of these days I'll actually decide on a table and stools and post my official kitchen!

Mairin-

I have about 2 feet less then you do. Waaa-Waaa. How big is your cooktop and how much counter space do you have on either side? Also how big is your island?

The cooktop is a 36" wolf, with 50" of counter on each side. If you're looking to cut this down - definitely a possibility. I use the space on the left while at the cooktop, but the space to the right I use primarily as my baking center (but frankly, I'm also on the island a lot for this as I like to spread out!!).

The island is 110" long by 48 1/2" wide (this is the granite I measured)

Can't wait to hear about your island too - right now mine is planned for 11 feet by 5'6" - I have even less space on my range wall than you both (grrr) -- just about 12' upon closer inspection. Oh well, but really, I do wonder if it will be OK -- Mairin --- if you lost the pair of cabinets (looking at it on the upper level) on both sides (keeping the single door cabinet) and squished the fridge/ freezer toward the center, would it work still, or do you think it would be way too tight? I know it will not be as spacious as your awesome set up, but could it work?

Citydweller --- does your friend want to become a dealer out here in NC? :-)
I'm jealous, all great brands --- I walk into the subzero / wolf kitchen showroom and get heart palpitations!

oops, mythreesons - we crossposted!

The 'double' cabs (both above and below) are 29" wide on each side (had to squeeze these down to allow for the framing around the SZs. I do think this could work, giving you adequate landing space/mixing/prep. I just would never want to do without the 6 18" drawers that flank my cooktop :). The other 6 inches are my pullout spice legs (which are also a dream, but is a luxury). It definitely can work if you have another work space (like an island)!

I don't think she wants to leave the city, but I will ask!

Since we are doing the 48' Wolf, we are only going to have about 30' wide of counter space flanking the cook top. I"m currently working with the number in our condo an I find it completely acceptable. I will also have the island right there. Our island is going to be 60' x 42', your islands cold eat my island for dinner! Does anyone think 30'of counter space is too little?

I was also thinking of doing 24' upper cabinets not the full 30' so there is a little space between the cabs and my hood. Thought?

Mairin,
Sorry for the crosspost --- you've made my day though with your pics and measurements!
Here is my sad little picture of what I was planning --- after seeing yours, I think I don't need my hood to be so big (I can actually get an upper on each side) - somebody posted about this ratio the other day, so I think my 36" cooktop can have a 42" hood (I also was just trying to sketch the space, so the hood in reality is too high up as well). Also, I have the spice legs planned too -- had them in my last kitchen, LOVED them! After your recommendation about not wanting to lose the drawers, I'm thinking that might be much more efficient than the drawer and doors -- THANK YOU!!

Citydweller -- I guess I am all about crossposting today! Just excited to have 2 people with a similar set-up --- I'm really just kidding about the Subzero person here --- Geez - San Francisco or NC? Hmmm.....

I like your idea about leaving the space by your hood - what kind of backsplash are you planning? How will it "end" with the space between cabs and hood?

I think the 30" landing space is great -- especially with the island to work on. I wouldn't even question that much. My current cooktop has 21" on one side, 24" on the other (weird -- the symmetry issues kill me) but the space really isn't an issue.

my3sonsNC-

I hope you like your new name! hehehe. I knew you were kidding, I was trying to be clever back, but I think it was lost in cyber space!

I am SO excited to find two other with similar layouts, especially one that is finished.

For the back splash I really want something like Artistic Tile Opera Glass(Wolfgang white), but in light translucent green. Second choice is Statuary 4x6 subway tiles.
http://www.annsacks.com/onlinecatalog/program.jsp?cat=268804&coll=278704&prg=1687104

Thoughts?

Here is a link that might be useful: Artistic Tile Opera Glass

WOW --- I got sucked into the website looking at these --- so amazing! What are your cabinets again? I love the statuary especially.

The Ann Sacks showroom is unreal. I could just walk around for hours with my mouth open.

Cabinets are raised panel white painted. We like Schuler Sheffield Maple in White Icing, but we are getting a final quote from a custom guy on Sat. The best part about the Schuler is the price, $25k! If the custom guy can come within 10K of Schuler we will prob go custom. I also got a Poggen Pohl quote for about $65k, the color photo above is the PP kitchen, but I think that's too much for white painted cabinets!

A little background about the house/project. We bought a very typical Marina style 1924 bungalow in SF and are gutting most of the interior. The DH and I have very modern taste but to keep with the style of the house we are doing a very traditional SF kitchen, so when we sell we aren't limiting the buying pool. I would like to put a few edgy touches, but nothing over the top.

I think your choices will be perfect for your setting. I agree about the 65k --- there are so many cabinetmakers offering great discounts right now, and so many custom individuals that it seems like you can get great cabinets without paying an absolute fortune. I just got quotes from one cabinet person here --- that fridge / range wall, butlers pantry (11 ft. run), and giant island, all $10,000 --- couldn't believe it --- thought it was a misprint....he even does inset doors - though it was not quoted that way, that will be an upcharge). I figured he missed part of my kitchen (there will be several other areas on the plan) --- somehow I know in the end it will not be $10,000, but I was psyched for the moment! Anyway, hope your custom guy gives you a great quote.

Hey, my3 and sf!! I missed out on all these great details when I went to bed last night :)

my3: I LOVE the look of your cooktop wall - gorgeous! DEFINITELY go for drawers on either side if you can afford it. I now wish ALL my lowers were drawers due to their usefulness! With all that space on the island to work, you won't need more than 30".

sf: those tile choices are beautiful!!! I love both, really. I think the opera glass would give that little bit of 'edge' that you would want. The marble is always gorgeous and a classic. You can't go wrong, but your counters might influence the backsplash in a particular direction. What are your counters going to be?

my cabs are custom and got the kitchen and butler's walkthru for about $27k (and I live in Chicago, so it's not small town pricing :). My cabs are walnut with solid maple box, all soft close drawers and doors (a dream), all the glass, extra inserts, etc! You might be surprised what a small operation can offer you in quality and price.

mythreesons -- You can do a hood that long and high if you like that look and don't need a couple of small side cabinets above. I know my Best by Broan hood could be used higher than we mounted it (it is 36 inches above the cooktop). You need more cfms and calculate it in along with your turns and length of ducting. The wider capture area helps and deeper wouldn't hurt either.

The look is nice -- you just need to see if larger and more CFMs are in the budget or whether you need the upper storage space.

If Plain and Fancy is available in your area, I would check them out too. We are working on a kitchen that is white shaker cabinets, but it is the style where the raised panel is on the inside.

There is a bank of cabinets with glass doors front and back--which will triple the price of the cabinet, at least. There are 5 drawer bases and a double trash pullout--all just to give you some idea of the relative upgrading.

The cabinets, plus two vanities came in at $17K and some change

Wow, thank you all for the tips. Since my ceiling will be vaulted and the highest point will be above the hood, I do think the hood should be larger than average just for the scale? I will look into what you said Lascatx --- That is great, I didn't know that maybe I could actually make the hood a bit higher. I'm worried that if I make the hood the "correct" size, the little cabinets I can fit in will be puny looking since my wall is not as large as SFCitydweller and Mairin (I'd probably have about a 12 inch upper), so I might be better off just making a giant hood.... We'll see how it all works once the appliances, etc. are set.
We do have P&F around here, I'll have to look into their cabs. I too have a ridiculous amount of cabs planned - and of course I want all of the cool features (the little cabs above with the glass, lots of furniture look details, glass fronts to make things like pieces of furniture, smooth glides, you name it....) I am hoping that I can spring for all the bells and whistles (or at least some of them) in the kitchen, and butler's pantry, and then I can get something decent in the rest of the house to save money- we can always upgrade single bath vanities later (my kids are little --- 8, 6 and 4 so they don't need fancy, just something that will survive them)!
Thanks again for all of the help --- It is so nice --- DH tunes me out when I start discussing this stuff - no clue what I'm talking about.....

My3-
I've been hearing a lot about custom guys giving great quotes because they are hard up for work. Let's hope mine does! He is reasonably priced to begin with so hopefully he will have some recession pricing! He did the DH's parents house (10,000sq ft) with literally TONS of cabs. I'm talking every bathroom(6), entire HUGE kitchen (I think its about 1200 sq ft including eating area), all the built ins in the dinning room,bar area, plus two offices covered in built ins, and they specially formulated the stain to match a current piece of furniture, the total cost was less the 100k for everything installed. Here's to hoping my little kitchen will be reasonable!

Mairin-
I'm in love with the opera tile, but am slightly concerned about resale, bc people here want to see super traditional. We will see! The counter tops will most likely be leathered Virgina Mist. I've walked through a bunch of granite places and I keep coming back to the VM so I think it's a sign. I would love to have the island done in white marble, but I'm concerned about maintenance. I also think there may be to much going on if we do the island in a different material.

We unfortunately do not have P&F here. WAA-WAA.

Does the cabinet guy want to move here with the subzero pal --- I've got it all figured out, they can open up a little shop here, create all of the demos that miraculously fit perfectly in my house plan and when they are ready to re-do them in about a year, I'll *help them out* by taking them off their hands.... I'm very helpful that way.....

Seriously though, that is a great price for DH's parents --- was that recent? Well, here's hoping that we get to take advantage of some of those specials --- I always hear about them, but they never seem to materialize! Let us know after you meet him how it worked out!

I will let all my people know that they could move to NC and have a fabulous client base to start off with and a place too dump all their samples!

My mouth literally dropped when DH's Mom told me the price! It was about 5 yrs ago, so when the market was booming. The cabinet guy had a 3yr + waiting list. DH's parents called to see if they could come do something small about 2 yrs ago and they said they were booking for 2yrs out! I forgot to mention they did their laundry room as well, which I think is comparable to my kitchen! The other thing about the cab people and DH parents is they live in a small town about 3 hrs away from SF and about 1hr away from any major city, so I'm pretty sure that is a reason cab guys prices are really palatable. We are meeting with the cab guy on Sat, for out initial meeting and to get his thoughts. I emailed him the floor plan and what we are looking for in terms of style, etc. I'm sure he will have a rough number for us! We also have a meeting with our architects tomorrow, who are consulting on design throughout the house, so I will report back with what they have to add! The link below is to a house the architects did, including the kitchen which we were in love with!

Here is a link that might be useful: Architect Kitchen

SFCD - WOW- I was away from my computer for the day --- so fun to log on and see the pics of the house your architect did. They do an AMAZING job! That house is really PERFECTLY done. Will be interested about your meeting today --- good luck!

My3-

The meeting was 3 hrs long! I drank a lot of wine post meeting! LOL They gave us about 10 different floor plan options for the upstairs and downstairs, but only one for the kitchen. I hate to tease you but my scanner is not working so I can't share! However, the idea was they would take the back wall of the kitchen in 4ft and give that 4 ft to the master. I would have a long narrow island running in the middle of the kitchen and no peninsula. The kitchen would have an archway open to the dinning room. We were not blown away by the this, mainly because you lose a lot of cabinets. They did move the outside staircase and door down 2 ft, basically where the current desk ends, this allows me to have the sink under the windows on the right wall that is currently bare. Hope that makes sense!

Glad you liked the architect photos! That house sold for 30% over asking! Hopefully ours will too, someday!

I can relate about the wine --- I had to go over plans with DH --- that required some wine, ok, a lot of wine!! Do you need the space in the master? Sounds like you have lots to think about with 10 different options --- wow. Hopefully one will work. I think I get the stair change -- did they give you floor plans or elevations? I think maybe the narrow island could be great --- but did you want / need the barstools? Will be curious to hear your thoughts once the dust has settled. Sounds like they have a comprehensive solution, and you have seen the end product of that other house, so you know it is going to be great --- why settle for 30% over asking --- I think you can top it!! :-)

I finally was able to upload the image from our Architect. This is a first drawing, so forgive the roughness! I'm going to give a brief description bc there is a lot going on!!

Let's start with the "left' wall, with the range. The freezer is going to be at the end across from the peninsula, not where it is in the drawing. This gives about 30' of counter space on either side of the cook top.

The back wall is going to have a furniture looking hutch about 4'wide. The curved wall is actually going to be a opening to the back hall. The previous desk/recipe area is going to become a pantry. We are going to see if it is possible to bump that wall out to become even with the outside staircase, so we could have a step in pantry. If we can't, it will still be a pantry but the specifics are yet to be determined!

The right wall now has the sink, dw, and trash pullouts! The Arch moved the doorway down so that the above items could be accommodated. There will be a large window or windows about this area.

The bottom 'wall' aka peninsula will now only have storage and the dinning room side will be raised to bar height.

The island will no longer have seating. Disregard the curved end, that part was the Architects doing, and I was not a fan. I was really looking forward to having seating at the island, but we can no longer have seating on the right side of the island, bc of the new sink area.

I should really start a new thread bc this is a far cry from my original post!!

{{!gwi}}

I notice in this last drawing that the refrigerator is near the back of the kitchen and the freezer is closest to the dining area.

All other things being equal, I would consider flipping their location so that the refrigerator is closer to the dining area. The fridge will then be more convenient.

Palimpset-

I agree. I would like the fridge closer to the dinning area as well. It will be a function of which way the units hinge. We are doing 27' Subzero All Fridge and All Freezer.

hey, sfcitydweller! I like the look of the layout, but agree with switching the fridge and freezer. You can choose hinge side on the Subzeros - nice benefit! My fridge is closer to the bfast nook table - easier for the, "mom, could I have more (fill in the blank)?". this location would leave non-cooks out of the bulk of the kitchen when accessing fridge for a piece of fruit/drink. I also think this might be a little more of a direct route from your fridge to your sink? Right now you can walk the passageway to your sink, but you do have to get around the island, which may feel like a barrier - really depends on how you cook/prepare. You probably should re-post to get all of the layout gurus on it!!!