bestyears, I am with you on the intense need to plan. My older DS always knew what he wanted to do careerwise, knew he wanted a small liberal arts college, and knew he wanted to be in New England. That narrowed down our search very nicely so it was easy to make "the list." Fast forward, he dropped out freshman year, but that's another story, which some of you already know. Second DS, who is now a junior like your DD, has changed his mind several times about what he thinks he'd like to do. He has also changed his mind about location -- first it was "no way am I staying in Boston" (where we live) and now it's "I really like Northeastern." To make matters more interesting, this is the year where he has somewhat dropped the ball academically, bringing his GPA down several points thank you very much. This is my super-conscientious child who until this year, never got a grade below a B with maybe one exception. So our "list" keeps changing. He says he is bringing his GPA back up this semester. Let's hope. He also is now saying going to school in Boston would not be a bad idea, because he really doesn't like to fly (he was, actually still is, looking at a few schools in Chicago and DC). Six months ago, he only wanted to look at big schools in big cities. Now he wants to look at smaller schools in Maine. He is all over the place! We did the Johnson O'Conner aptitude testing last year. Link is below. We did it with our older DS too. We all found it fascinating, actually, and DH and I have both said we'd love to take it ourselves. However, up until that time, DS wanted to be a teacher. He has worked at an elementary afterschool program since 6th grade (first as volunteer, now as a paid teacher). He just has a knack for working with kids. When we met with the guy who did the testing, he told my son he would not enjoy teaching, he'd be bored, etc. Even though we told DS he should follow his heart and do what he loves, he soon after decided that teaching wasn't for him and that he wanted to major in business (which actually was not one of the top few career choices for him, though I think management was on the list somewhere). So right now, he's still saying business/market research, and every once in a while I say "...but you should look at schools that have education programs just in case." Anyway, I guess my point is that I am pretty sure my DS really has no idea what he wants to do. and we are basically looking at mostly larger schools that have a lot of options! Also, I think another good way to explore possibilities is through some kind of summer program. My DS worked at a music summer camp last summer and LOVED it (of course, because he is meant to be a teacher). But this summer he wants to explore the other side, so he will be an intern at an investment firm. I think for him, this is a fantastic idea, because he will see if working in that atmosphere is actually appealing to him or not. I have now been through this twice (one more to go) and I think junior year is the worst stage of parenting! Here is a link that might be useful: testing

A few things stand out to me. No offense, but I'm not totally sure how truly close you have been to him. Frankly it sounds like you're been buying his affection. How would you intend to get him out of his obligations? Has he signed up or is it still a consideration? I'm not so sure you could once signed up. His not being sure if the service is what he wants, is it cold feet or something eles? I think you're starting to realize the affect of your past treatment and I do applaud that you are pushing him to complete his education obligations. Spoiled kids are so common and I must say that at least here it doesn't seem like he's been caught up in so much of the activity that others get into. Instilling irresponsibilty so often has such detrimental effects whether it be crime, drugs or otherwise. Fortunately, it sounds like it hasn't gone that far in this case but IMO the service would still be a good thing for him. Now in fairness I should add that I believe ALL kids, male and female, should be required to serve a couple years as part of their education. I firmly believe it's a great experience and helpful for them. That said, and looking at what's been provided here, I think this fellow needs some help that the service can give him. Were it me, I'd keep him attending to his educational needs to qualify and if he's concerned that he's become "lazy", I'd make sure he starts a regiment of getting up in the morning, going to bed at night and perhaps even sign him up for a health club to begin working out preferably with a hardcore trainer. That would assist his overall health, assist his sleeping habits, help direct his concentration and probably give him some confidence in accomplishment that it sounds like he needs. It could help relieve at least part of the shock of the wake up regiment in the service. There's no question the Navy would be a wakeup call for him. We all know the risks too. But the potential benefits and possible outcome by not doing it would offset the risks IMO. I'm also concerned about the other kid said to be messed up. Whatever happens, I hope it all works out.

Boy...this was a posting and a half to read but definitely shows some different ideas on what parents and teachers think about discipline in a class. All I can add is that each group of children and for that matter each child will react differently to different ways of handling a situations. I think group punishment is needed as a foregound to control an entire class who is out of control but not as a continual way of controling certain disruptive students. Once a teacher has the feel for who is causing the problem then that individual needs to be dealt with just as a parent when discovering which child broke the house rules or made the mistake. When in doubt everyone gets punished and it has to be explained that this is being done to avoid favorism. The child causing the problem should also be given a chance to come forward and appologize without punishment if they choose to with in a certain time frame after which a punish applies. If you gain the trust of a child and treat them like a real person 9 out of 10 children will respond. They want exactly what we want to be respected and noticed for our good acts. Children who act out have found it the only way to get attention and don't care anymore that it's negative attention just as long as someone is seeing them. I have four children with very different personalities. Each has their own way of getting attention when they feel they are not getting any...multiply that by how ever many and you have aclass full of children all trying to get one adults attention so they feel SEEN. It must be the hardest thing for a teacher to deal with everyday. It is as a parent to four, and because I have grown to know them so well I know what they are doing. When my 9 year old son who is easily bored starts to act like a clown I know he wants mom to spend sometime with him or he needs something to interesting to do while I am busy. When my 11 year old son talks my ear off I know he has had a day and a half and needs to download his feelings, when my 7 year old daughter gets clingy with me I know it's time to do an activity with just her and I, When my 2 year old is pulling at my shirt for something for the upteenth time I know it's her turn. It's not easy to figure out what each child needs individually but as a parent we have only a few children and need to take the time to know as a teacher wouldn't always have that time and has 30 students or more to get to know in under a year. That's when the group discipline needs to come into play and then be broken down to find out the individual needs within a short time frame. My suggestion is discuss it with the class in an open forum explaining the need for rules and the rewards of following them then stick to them and show your students that you respect them and they will respect you. That makes the difference in whether they will learn from you or ignore you.The best teachers I have meet have been strict with class ediquette but reward their students with respect and privelges of being a helper rather than give them material things as a reward.

A lot of four year and two year colleges also offer certificate programs. For example, I taught for a while at Temple University Ambler and they offer a certificate program in landscaping. Classes were at night and on the weekends, designed for people who worked full time jobs. Something like that would allow your son to "dabble" and also connect with peers who had similar lives and aptitudes. He could use the certificate to get his foot in the door for a job that would give him hands on experience. There are even online certificate programs that may not be all that great but could be used to leverage an entry-level job. And I will echo what Lascatx said, if your son hasn't found his passion and way in life yet, it is extremely stressful for him. During my "floundering" years I often cried myself to sleep and I remember distinctly sitting in the middle of my bedroom on the floor just trying to will myself to die. Luckily my parents were reasonable supportive and also I give a lot of credit to my dad who encouraged me to just get out and try things and have experiences. I teach college and I see so many students who are moribund in their lives, ruled by the fear of failing, since they have always had pressure to do well at everything they did. One of the things that happened to me on that backpacking course is I went from being a complete disaster as both a hiker and camper, to being one of the leaders of the group. In fact, I went from getting a joke award after the first week for being "Leader of the Pack." (which was sarcasm) to gaining the nickname "The Kootenay Flash" for my performance on the most grueling leg of the trip in Kootenay National Park in Canada. I had to push through all the difficulties and I got support from some fellow classmates. This experience had such a profound effect on me that I have been a student of this phenomenon all my life, both living it, and then turning around and teaching and mentoring students. So many young people today grow up in an atmosphere of constant negativity and being picked on and picked at for any little thing they do that is not perfect. Just listen to what is on TV, it's mostly snark and nit-picking. Anyone who does anything, a thousand talking-heads will pick it apart down to the most minute level. Everyone is an armchair quarterback on the Internet. This creates a mindset in young people when they are constantly exposed to this, either among their peers or with their families. These young people need acceptance and support that encourages them to try something, and then when they come up against the inevitable point when it doesn't turn out perfectly, they need the acceptance and encouragement that sometimes, just doing it and being just "average" is plenty good. I see so many students who have to either be perfect or they quit something completely. They end up quite miserable because they can never live up to the impossible standards they set for themselves. They give up a dream because they didn't have success right out of the gate, so they deem it impossible. These students need to get exposed to the law of averages!! I introduce them to the "Pinkmountain Method," which is keep trying and failing until you succeed! I tell them just to do and do and do, don't worry about the eventual outcome, and eventually, by the law of averages, something will stick!! The only sure fire way to fail is to never try. I have many case studies where the "Pinkmountain Method" has worked! For example, I once had a student who was absolutely convinced that she would never get this internship in Washington DC working for her state's senator. She figured there would be tons of people more qualified than her. And I told her, "And they're probably NOT going to apply for the same reason as you! Just apply, you have nothing to lose." This was a case of her not doing something because she felt she wasn't "perfect" enough. She applied, got the internship, made connections in DC and got another internship that led to a full time job that she loved. Got a big "thank you" note from her on that one! I wouldn't prescribe anything for your son, I would just have him maybe get the book"Wishcraft" by Barbra Sher, to get his juices going on some ideas. It wouldn't hurt for you to explore some certificate programs, (some are online), internships, summer jobs, seminars, etc. It has been my experience that high school and college career counseling services are complete crap. I know there are exceptions, but in many places they just push paper and don't know the students they are supposed to be helping well enough to mentor them. Administering an aptitude test will not help a student find their passion, you have to know the themes and personality type of the person, which may be completely unrelated to how they fill out a multiple choice questionnaire!!!!! Just encourage him to experience things, without pressure. Adopt a "what the heck, give it a try" attitude. Another resources is the "Strength Finder" series, which helps people identify their strengths and put them to work for them in their careers. It's not all that expensive and I like that you can access "Action Plans" with this resource. Clifton Strengths Finder