diclemeg, In the past I have treated moderate areas of POA that kept coming back. 20-50 sq/ft areas, and some smaller. These areas are a bit shady and damp, very good POA enviroment. I hit the POA with round up. Waited for the death. Then heavily aerated the spots, or vigorously raked them to loosen the first inch or 2 of soil. Seeded with elite KBG, raked in seeds. Well, in weeks these areas were mostly KBG. But by next spring there were more POA spots in different places. I was able to grow mostly KBG in the areas that I killed off the POA. The following year, more POA showed up, but not because of my actions, but the more due to the shady damp area of my front lawn I was trying to grow KBG. I gave up treating this area until I get rid of the trees that shade it. What's my point? I can't imagine your entire lawn shady and damp like my front corner where I keep getting loads of POA no matter what. You may have just been unlucky in your first attempt at seeding...or maybe it was the heavy dosage of the wrong fertilizer that stunted your KBG growth that allowed the POA to dominate. What can you do? Get some RU now, and carefully spray the POA. Hopefully it will kill it, it is pretty late to try, but worth a shot. Next...wait. Wait until the ground is frozen solid. Then spread some KBG seed on the bare spots, dormant seed. Then wait, do nothing. Enjoy the winter and forget about the grass. Wait until at least the middle of May before doing anything. Hopefully the seeds will have sprouted. Oh, there will be some POA, but there will be some KBG there too. This will improve your situation, it won't fix it, but it will help and really is all you can do now at this time of the year. It is better than waiting for next spring to take action.

What Howard says about light matches my own experience: Getting the light right is extremely difficult, and you need to be on-site to do it. Even then, it is hard to be certain what to do. Decision making under uncertainty. Just get used to the idea you will never be *sure* The only thing I have found useful is increasing my personal knowledge of where and how hot the sun is at my house at different times of the day and times of year. It is a cumulation of information about your situation over time. To move a plant to more light, the following schedule works quite well: Two days in total shade. Then, start with 15' of sun on the 3rd day, doubling the length of exposure every day. So day 4 they get 30', Day 5 is 1 hour, Day 6 is 2 hours. Day 7 is 4 hours. When I move at that pace, I usually don't get burn. If you move faster than that, you can get serious burns. Howard is also right that your problem may actually turn out to be not enough light rather than too much. If you want to know how much light is under a tree, check out the grass and weeds growing under it. Elongated, skinny weeds mean not enough light to properly grow anything.

turf toes, Your front yard certainly looks better than mine did at the same time two years ago. I'm not sure I believe that 100% (lol), but thank you very much! Your lawn was actually what inspired me to renovate mine. All last winter my plan was to overseed this fall with seed purchased from a big box store. Then I came across those photos of your lawn on another forum (which also lead me to this forum), and I knew right then that was the lawn I wanted! I think it even listed the cultivators that you used. So thanks again! The above statement is 100% true! Hey, how about some updated photos of your project this year! Paul, You are quit welcome! I have gotten alot out of this forum for myself, so it feels good to be able to help someone along the way. You are going to have a sweet looking back yard next year, and you'll be a pro by next year should you decide to do the front! FWIW, I just went out and mowed again (mulched this time)at 2-1/4" , wow I'm not use to cutting that low! 3" was always what i've done in the past. There are actually a few area's that really still have not been mowed. All of them are where there was either a small flower bed or a burning bush, I wonder if I should throw some organics stuff down there? Even though I will be fertilizing with TB with iron on Sunday.

Sheehan...that yellow fruit is: Otaheite gooseberry (Phyllanthus acidus). Sucked. Might be okay with lots of sugar added. Coralred...You will only find longkong in the markets, rarely any other variety or plain langsat. Everything else is considered sub par. In fact, longkong was the only thing found growing everywhere we went. John...everything was safe and sound upon my return. The neighbor did a good job keeping things alive for those two weeks. The mayong chid is actually making a comeback even with all the dieback.