Dianne, I'm not Grainlady, but I make bread with TVP. It wasn't something I had planned, it was just that I actually bought too much TVP and was experimenting with ways to use it. Generally I just use any of my normal bread recipes but for one loaf I soak 1/2 cup of TVP in the recipe liquids for about 30 minutes prior to combining into the dry ingredients, and then adjust liquids up just a bit if the dough requires it. We haven't noticed any difference in taste.

I also found a recipe on Allrecipes.com, using cannellini beans in a recipe for healthy cookies. I don't know if you'd be interested in this or not. The link is below. I haven't tried it but I'm going to in the next few days. I hope Grainlady sees this as I'd like her opinion of the recipe. I understand from the reviews that it needs more liquid and I'm thinking maybe not drain the beans?? One reviewer said she used a different bean and the cookies were still good so maybe you could use soybeans in the recipe with good results. Only a few people said they could taste the beans.

Sorry about jumping in, I'll be watching this thread because I'm always interested in Grainlady's opinions. I have learned quite a lot from her and I really appreciate that she has the time and the patience to share her expertise. Thanks

Here is a link that might be useful: Power Cookies recipe

Thanks for the response Ilene. The Power Cookie recipe looks interesting. I have two toddler grandchildren who don't eat but are always interested when they hear the word cookie. Good way to sneak some protein into them.

I think I'll follow the advice given in one of the comments and add applesauce.

Why not ask this on the Cooking forum? Lots of knowledgeable people there. Personally, I think the Cornell bread isn't very tasty, but YMMV.

I started making Cornell Bread in the early 1970's. I have a whole book on the subject that incluedes 54 recipes. It was the inspiration to improve nutrition, protein, and fiber in bread. HOWEVER, I can do MUCH better than the Cornell Bread recipe for improved protein, nutrition, and fiber. They don't even use wholegrain flour, for heaven's sake....

I eventually tried to lower the glycemic impact of bread by incresing protein and using low-glycemic flours (spelt, barley, rye, oat) in my breads as well. So here's a bit of what I do after some study on the subject to increase the protein level.

#1 - I avoid soy as a food and would never eat raw milled soy flour. If I wouldn't consume soy, I'd certainly never feed it to children. I'd direct you to the book, "The Whole Soy Story" by Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN, or the link below.

But to your question... depending on your mills, you may or may not be able to mill soybeans - check your owner's manual. They are too hard for some mills.

Commercial soy flour is completely different than milling your own. The commercial soy flour has been milled, dried, oil removed (which quickly goes rancid), and lightly toasted. Commercial soy flour can also include processes with chemicals and solvents, as well as high (nutrient destroying) heat in the process.

TVP is one of the most highly processed foods on the planet. There's absolutely NOTHING "natural" or "healthy" left in it! The processing includes both toxic chemicals and solvents - YUM! Soy is also high on the list of foods that people are commonly allergic to.

#2 - What I use instead of soy flour is bean flour from small white beans (which I mill at home from dried beans). You can substitute a portion of bean flour in all kinds of baked goods. Nearly any redeeming quality you can find in the soybean, you will also find in other beans, without all the negative aspects of soy.

Small white beans have the least amount of bean flavor and are the best choice for bean flour in baked goods. Keep the milled white bean flour in the refrigerator or freezer.

#3 - You can increase the protein in bread by using high-protein flour. My wheat is 13.1% protein, so my flour is too. I add protein in the form of either whole amaranth seeds or I'll mill it with my seed mill into flour. The chia seeds (in the form of chia seed gel) I add to all my breads is yet another bonus in the fiber/nutrition/protein of the finished bread.

For a better choice than TVP, I can make "fake" meat from whole wheat flour because of the gluten protein.

*12-cups whole wheat flour makes 4 c. raw gluten.
*4-cups raw gluten bakes into 9 cups ground gluten.
*9-cups ground gluten pieces is = 3-pounds of hamburger (cooked)

All without chemical and solvents..... I'd choose wheat gluten (aka seitan) over TVP any day of the week. Plus I can make it myself.

So don't discount the flour in the bread. It's also a source of protein.

#4 You can choose whey protein powder over soy flour. You'll also be using a form of protein that is highest on the Protein Biological Value Chart and you get more absorbably protein from whey than you do soy. Whey protein is 100+, while soy protein concentrate is 74. Eggs are also a good way to increase the protein. Whole eggs are 88-100 on the BV chart. Milk is a higher form of absorbable protein than soy - coming in at a 91. So when you make enriched breads that include milk and eggs, you'll get more useable protein that from soy flour found in the Cornell Bread Recipe.

#5 - Be careful adding too much whey or dairy products to breads to increase the protein. If you notice your crust has the look of a roller coaster ride (all lumpy and bumpy, rather than nice and smooth), then you are adding too much.

There is an enzyme in whey, milk, and dried powdered milk that can seriously affect the volume, symmetry, cellular structure, and texture of bread when too much is used. If you use King Arthur Flour's - Baker's Special Dry Milk (item #1188) for the dry milk in the Cornell Bread Recipe, it's been processed to destroy the enzyme and doesn't have the destructive effects as regular non-fat dried milk powder - and all the benefits of added protein and calcium.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Soy Online Service

Well, that was educational, as always, Grainlady!

Looks like I have some TVP to throw out.

In the last couple of days, I was sent a link that maybe would be appropriate to show here. It's rather time consuming to watch, and it's pretty scarey.

There was a movie that was made quite a few years ago called "Soylent Green". It had Charlton Heston as the lead. It was scarey, too, but we all thought when we watched it that "this could never really happen". It's looking more and more like maybe it could.

Here is a link that might be useful: The World According to Monsanto

This weekend I'm going to experiment with the recipe using your recommended substitution of bean flour for the soy and whole wheat flour (with some whey protein mixed in) for the unbleached flour.

Is there a magic percentage of wheat flour to whey protein powder that I should follow?

I made my grandchildren some rolled oat/peanut butter/honey/raisin granola and added a few tablespoons of wheat germ for good measure. They seem to like it.

Grainlady, you are an incredible source of useful information. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.

Dianne

Dianne -

I study things just WAY too much - that never-ending inquiring mind thing...

If memory serves me, there was a formula that went along with the Cornell method: to a 1-cup measuring cup, add 1 T. soy flour, 1 T. dry milk powder, 1 t. wheat germ, then fill the cup with flour.

With this formula you could increase the protein in all kinds of baked goods using flour.

When you make breads with whole wheat flour or wheat germ, be sure to add some ascorbic acid powder to the mix. FYI, not all commercial whole wheat flour contain the germ. Many have it removed (by law) to increase the shelf-life since wheat germ oil goes rancid very quickly. Often, whole wheat flour is nothing more than white flour with some of the bran raked back in. Exceptions are Hodgson Mills and King Arthur, who mill the whole grain.

There is a substance call Glutathione in wheat germ which breaks down gluten - hence those short squat loaves of whole wheat bread... To counteract the negative effects of Glutathione add 1/8 t. ascorbic acid powder (aka Vitamin C powder) per loaf. Not only will it prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down; but the ascorbic acid will help repair gluten bonds that have already been broken.

Personally, I'd avoid the wheat germ and use freshly milled flaxmeal. You can mill it in a coffee/spice mill - use the light tan variety for better "eye" appeal. I add flaxmeal to all my baked goods and breads.

The only way to get all the nutritional benefits of the germ oil is to use freshly-milled whole wheat flour. In commercial wheat germ, you are assured nothing more than rancid oils, which is why the wheat germ is normally toasted - to cover the rancidity and it's the same with soy flour.

BTW - oils don't have to smell rancid to BE rancid. Once the bran is broken on a grain, oxygen immediately begins to degrade the germ oils. For the most healthful breads, mill your own flour and bake within a 3 hour period. Commercial whole wheat flours that have been left on the shelf for many months have lost large portions of the B Complex and C Vitamins. FRESH IS BEST when you are working with whole grains for optimal nutrition and the freshest oils possible.

I know - you're thinking you can't win for losing! I've been at this for over 30 years and wondered the same thing many times.

-Grainlady

Please excuse me if I'm beating this subject to death. I'd like to develop a basic recipe that provides optimal protein for my family. I'm no stranger to freshly ground wheat and bread making but I've always stuck to the basics.

You say, "If memory serves me, there was a formula that went along with the Cornell method: to a 1-cup measuring cup, add 1 T. soy flour, 1 T. dry milk powder, 1 t. wheat germ, then fill the cup with flour."

I'll substitute (all freshly milled)
1. bean flour for the soy
2. light flax for the wheat germ
3. hard white wheat berries for the unbleached flour

Where does the whey protein come in?

You should write a book, Grainlady, I'd be first in line to buy 5 copies!

Whey protein powder can be used instead of soy. Bean flour is another alternative for soy. Bean flour is cheaper than whey, but is much lower on the BV chart. You get more usable protein from whey than beans, BUT, whey (or too much of it) can affect the loaf - so you'll have to do some experimenting. Whey or bean flour - your choice... You may find a combination of them works best. And try to find the small white beans for bean flour - they have the least amount of bean flavor.

No book necessary, they've already been published and I've purchased many of the books containing the information I've shared - which is why I'm a favorite customer at book stores and amazon.com. ;-).

-Grainlady

Just stumbled onto this fascinating discussion. A little late ;-> Are the substitutes a one to one ratio of the cornell bread recipe. i.e. 1 tbls of soy = 1 tbls of whey?
Thanks

Now THIS is too funny.

Today, nearly 2 years from my original post, I had a group of friends to my house to learn how to make bread. We made Grainlady's version of Cornell Bread along with fresh butter from cream.

Here's the recipe I used:

CORNELL BREAD VARIATION Three 8x4 inch loaves

3 cups warm water (105-115 degrees)
2 packets (4� tsp) active dry yeast
2 Tbsp honey or sugar
3 tsp salt
2 Tbsp vegetable oil
6 cups milled wheat
1/2 cup white bean flour
3/4 cup nonfat dry milk
3 Tbsp freshly milled light tan flax seed
3/8 tsp ascorbic acid powder

1. In a large mixing bowl, dissolve yeast in warm water. Stir in honey, salt, and oil.
To a 1-cup measuring cup, add 1 Tbsp white bean flour, 1 Tbsp dry milk powder, 1 tsp flax seed, then fill the cup with flour.

2. Combine three cups of the flour with the white bean flour, dry milk, and flax seed; add to yeast mixture. Add more flour, 1/2 cup at a time, to make dough stuff enough to knead easily.

3. Turn dough onto a lightly floured board. Knead about ten minutes or until smooth and elastic, adding flour as needed to keep the dough from sticking.

4. Place dough in a lightly oiled bowl, turning to oil the top. Cover with a clean towel and let rise in a warm place until double; about one hour.

5. Punch dough down and turn onto lightly oiled board. Divide dough into three equal portions and shape each into a loaf. Place in greased 8x4 inch pans. Cover with a clean towel and let rise until double; about one hour.

6. Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Bake 30 to 35 minutes or until bread sounds hollow when tapped. Remove from pan and cool on wire rack.

WOW!!! What's old is new again..... ;-)

dian57, your recipe looks great!

I have a new-and-improved add-in choice since this thread - it's High-Maize Resistant Starch. High-Maize would be a good substitute for wheat germ (measure-for-measure) in the Cornell Bread Recipe. Wheat germ is unnecessary in the Cornell Bread Recipe IF you use at least a portion of freshly-milled whole wheat flour in the recipe to begin with...fresh wheat germ is already available in whole wheat flour.

Milling your own flour will also assure the highest amount of nutrients from the wheat. This is why I find it amazing the Cornell Recipe didn't use whole wheat flour in the first place. The nutrients in freshly-milled whole wheat flour begin to degrade within 3-hours of milling, and the wheat germ oil oxidizes quickly. You will find wheat germ purchased as an individual ingredient is basically a rancid product - which means it's a free-radical, which is destructive to the body. The rancidity in the wheat germ purchased commercially is covered by the toasting they do to the raw germ. Rancid oils don't have to smell rancid to BE rancid. If they smell rancid, then they have been rancid for a VERY long time. If you want to add wheat germ to a recipe, add freshly-milled whole wheat flour - it's in there...

I add High-Maize Resistant Starch to all my recipes for baked goods anymore. Here's a bit of information from King Arthur Flour:

-Natural dietary fiber is derived from corn. It's an easy solution for adding fiber to your gluten-free diet.

-One serving of Hi-maize (about 1 1/2 tablespoons) contains 6g of non-soluble dietary fiber: about 20% to 25% of your suggested daily requirement.

-Substitute for up to 1/4 to 1/3 the flour in your baked goods; adjust up or down to taste.

-Add to soups, sauces, and smoothies.

-Wheat-free, soy-free, nut-free blend is packed in a dedicated gluten-free facility.

King Arthur - 12-ounces for $6.95.

I buy High-Maize 5-in-1 Fiber from Honeyville Grain.
$18.49 for 5-pounds. http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/hi-maize5-in-1-fiber.aspx

Here's what Honeyville Grain has to say about Hi-Maize:

Hi-maize has some real health benefits.

1. Hi-maize is lower in calories than the flour it replaces. Hi-maize delivers between 2-l kilocalories/gram while flour delivers 4 kilocalories/gram. Hi-maize also helps your body burn more fat and may lead to lower fat accumulation.
2. Hi-maize helps maintain healthy blood sugar levels in healthy individuals because Hi-maize increases insulin sensitivity in healthy people.
3. Hi-maize helps balance your energy in the hours following a meal. It has a lower impact in blood sugar and blood insulin than the flour it replaces. For individuals following a "carbohydrate-control" diet, it lowers the "net" or digestible carbohydrates in foods.
4. Hi-maize promotes digestive health. The fiber in Hi-maize is fermented within the large intestine and encourages the growth of friendly bacteria (a "prebiotic" fiber). It reduces harmful compounds such as ammonia, while producing beneficial compounds such as short-chain fatty acids like butyrate, the preferred fuel for colon cells. Hi-maize is ideal for use in a gluten-free diet.
5. Hi-maize is well tolerated. It is slowly fermented and does not produce the uncomfortable digestive side effects sometimes found with fiber.

I add a heaping tablespoon to my morning smoothie (homemade kefir, 100% fruit juice, flaxmeal, High-Maize and a nutritional supplement. I also substitute up to 15-20 percent of the flour in a recipe with High-Maize.

Another good substitute for wheat germ in the Cornell recipe is amaranth (I believe I mentioned it above in an earlier post). You could add whole amaranth seeds or amaranth flour (amaranth is so tiny it needs to be milled in a seed mill or in a coffee/spice mill). The seeds look like golden poppy seeds and I like to add amaranth seeds to quick breads. Amaranth flour is high in protein, and protein is why wheat germ is used in the recipe. The fiber content of amaranth is three times that of wheat, plus good amounts of iron and calcium. Amaranth also contains vitamin E (also found in wheat germ). Amaranth is easy to digest.

The Cornell Bread Recipe was a good start to improving nutrition, fiber and protein in bread, but there are a lot of other things you can add to your recipes way BEYOND what was used in this "old science" recipe.

-Grainlady

I find it interesting that you use corn as a gluten free product. My KC can not eat dog food with corn or gluten but many dog foods list both corn and corn gluten, especially the ones with faux meaty chunks. I have never tried making gluten from corn, have from wheat, so do not know how much gluten corn would have.

maifleur -

There must be some misunderstanding... Corn IS allowed in gluten-free diets in a number of forms. My mother was gluten-intolerant and used corn regularly, while my son was allergic to corn, so I'm somewhat familiar with this issue. BTW, gluten intolerance and grain allergies are not the same thing.

When it comes to canine grain allergies, it is my understanding it's not unusual for dogs to have problems digesting a variety of grains. But consider for a moment -- they are carnivores, not omnivores like humans are, and maybe feeding a large amount of grains to dogs, in the form of dog food, really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Perhaps the link below will give you more information.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Dog Food Advisor