Before Vinyl Siding: Rip-off shingles, or go over them??

14 years ago

First off - the house is a 100yr old 2-story, and has stained wood shingles (not sure if they are original, but they are in fairly poor shape - dry, brittle, and had curled (at some point the bottom of the shingles were nailed down to stop the curl). The house has about ~3,000 sq ft of surface area.

I had two separate vinyl siding contractors come do a consulation. The first guy brought a pretty nice looking Alside insulated siding product called Prodigy. It's backed with 1" of styrofoam (R5 value), comes in long lengths (16'), and has a very realistic textured. He said the only way to do it right was to have all the existing shingles ripped-off, wrap the house with breathable Tyvek, and then install the new siding. He quoted the job at $24k (including the all the aluminum trim, etc.).

The second guy brought a somewhat less attractive Certain Teed product called Monogram 46. It did not have any insulated backing (he called that a gimmick). It also came in 16' lengths though. He said it was actually unnecessary to stip all the old shingles off, and instead proposed to cover them up flat with a foam board, and then install the siding ontop of the board. He quoted the job at $16k, including all aluminum trim, etc.

Does anyone know if it's really necessary to strip-off all the old shingles before installing the siding? There does not appear to be any water damage issues with the existing old shingles, however the first guy said it's important get the old shingles off to avoid any issues with moisture or mold underneath the new siding. The second guy said any moisture under the siding would evaporate when the sun hits the house (of course, the north side doesn't see much sun)...

Also any opinions on an insulated siding vs. non-insulated. The house right now has no insulation, and is located in the Boston area. Some walls will be insulated from the inside during interior renovations, and we may get blown-in at some point.

Thanks in advance to those of you with vinyl siding experience!

Featured Answer

Stephen Costa

4 years ago

last modified: 4 years ago

Hi Ana, I'm still around! Though yes, I don't hang around this forum anymore.

So in the time that I made my original post, I finished that old house renovation and then proceeded onto the next project (built a custom home from scratch!). Based on all my experiences, I can safely say that yes, you should absolutely strip off the old shingles/siding before putting up vinyl. For all the reasons stated by others above.

In the case of my 100yr old house reno, I ended up NOT doing vinyl at all, instead I found a great Brazilian crew that stripped the old shingles, removed the old tar-paper on the house sheathing and re-wrapped it with Tyvek, and then installed new red cedar shingles. The economy was down then, and they got a deal on a supply of Grade-A real shingles. They were very skilled and did an amazing job matching the original detailed shingle patterns, particularly around the front porch arches - never would get that level of detail out of vinyl. We also replaced all the exterior window & door trim with PVC trim (and re-flashed everything). We definitely went more the restoration route on that project, both outside the house and inside where I re-did all the original natural woodwork. Was a lot of work but so worth it in the end. Also as the original outside shingles had been removed, I had the opportunity to blow-in insulation all around the house (from the outside).

On my new build house, I also did shingles. And there again, I realized the importance of installing a good house wrap (in this case I installed one that allows better drainage behind the shingles/siding).

You may have already started your project by now, but if not definitely strip the shingles if you can. I'm also happy to give you the contact info for the crew that re-shingled my old house. They don't do vinyl but if you were interested in sticking with wood siding they're great. We ended up painting the new shingles there with a top-shelf Benjamin Moore Aura paint. I've been by the house several times since selling it and the paint is not peeling yet.

Here's some pics our house / siding job:

100yr old house renovation

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Comments (12)

sierraeast
14 years ago
I agree with siding guy # 1. Stripping off the old shingles allows you to check ou the condition of the walls to spot any possible rotted areas.It also gives you a chance to insulate any areas that aren't, and seal any areas that need to be addreseed. You can also inspect around window and door openings for flashings that need to be installed properly coinciding with the tyvek. It would also be a time to consider if you want any outside electrical boxes or water spiquets installed before they start wrapping. I've only heard positives about insulated vinyl sidings, not a gimmick. Besides the small amount of insulation, the most important aspect to it is that it adds rigidity ot the panel when the neighbors kids baseball hits it! Tends to hold up to abuse a tad better than non-insulated vinyl. You might ask for an estimate for foam board panels rather than the tyvek for a better insulated wall. That might lead to furring out window and door trims to meet the extra width.
User
14 years ago
Definately the first guy!

Having pulled siding off houses, there can be lots of bad stuff underneath. And leaving worn out siding, especially shingles, can often lead to shingles dropping and really creating a hassle.

Added to that is the fact that leaving the old, adding foamboard and new vinyl adds an inch to an inch and a half to the thickness of the total siding. That means extending window trim/sills, electrical receptacles, and makes it much more difficult to connect gutter downspouts/etc.
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I too live in an older home. Plus I own 4 other older homes. We are a young couple that is just trying to provide people with decent places to live. I really dont like the look of vinyl but I would rather put it over the asphalt shingle siding somebody put on one of our houses YEARS ago than try to remove it and fix all the wood siding, if that would even be possible. We dont have the time to do the stripping ourselves, and we dont have the money to pay somebody to strip the houses down to the wood to restore them. Our house already has really old siding on it. And because they are older homes they are very drafty, and the heating bills are outragous. I dont understand why people would get soo upset. They do all still have original woodwork and wood floors inside that I try very hard to take care of. People do what they have to do. And sometime with the extra insulation in siding it helps in more than just looks of the house. And alot of time you can choose to keep some of the character of the house. Does it make me a bad person because I just had new windows installed in one of the houses? Vinyl, double hung at that. No, it makes me responsible. The drafts that were in that house are now gone. The heating and cooling bills will go down. And it makes it easier for people to keep windows clean on the inside and the outside. Sometimes what we need to do and what we wish we could do are two different things. I am really sorry that you all feel so strongly towards people for what they put on their own houses. I pray every day that my neighbor will get siding put on his house. We live in an old neighborhood (with brick streets even) and his house has asphalt siding on it. It doesnt flow well with the rest of the houses. In my defense, I am eagerly awaiting the day they pull the old siding off my house so I can see what it used to look like!!!!
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The house wrap(Tyvec/etc.) will eliminate a lot of the air holes. That will block a lot of the wind by itself. The R value of the foam board is in the 3-4R range. It does not replace wall cavity insulation, but adds to it and also helps seal air leaks. What Bill said about the baseboards/electrical is true. However, house wrap when properly installed can solve a lot of those issues. I am all for preserving the look of old houses, but houses built in the 1800's and into the first half of the 1900's were not built with any energy conservation/effeciency in mind at all. Plus, many of the materials used were all that was available and needed periodic maintenance. Those are now expensive and uncomfortable houses in which to live without extensive upgrading. I remember a house in which i lived when I was young. Even then I loved the big front porch, the screened sleeping porch(with a huge feather bed). But, it was cold in the winter, we had to have individual heaters in the rooms we used the most, and hotter than all get out in the summer. Our present house was built in 1965 and was upgraded with insulated steel and insulated plastic(looks like cedar shake shingles) siding. Still has the original windows, but has two piece storms over the windows. I added more insulation in the attic and we can relax in below zero weather in summer sleep wear.
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Stephen Costa
Original Author
14 years ago
Ok, well this week a 3rd guy is coming... I won't prompt him and will see what he says. From the phone conversation he sounds like he's less exclusive in terms of the manufacturer/product he prefers to install. Sounds like he'd install whatever I want, and would advise based on my interests/objectives.

Will update on how it goes!
joed
14 years ago
If the walls aren't insulated I would also consider blowing insulation into the wall after the siding is stipped.
Ana Archibald
4 years ago
Stephen- I sesee this post is 1010 years old but I came across it because I'm in a similar situation, and also in the Boston area. Would love to know what you ended up going with and who!
cat_ky
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
It is unlikely that this guy is even anywhere near this forum. You would have been better to have made a post of your own, rather than drag up a 2010 post. I would go with option no. 1. It is the better option and well worth the extra money. I would never put siding over old siding. Good Luck to you.
DavidR
4 years ago
Glad to hear you went with shingles and restoration. Vinyl siding is a good upgrade for generic tract homes with deteriorating Masonite or other cheap original wood siding, but it almost breaks my heart to see a historic, character-rich home wrapped in bland vinyl.
Stephen Costa
4 years ago
@davidR, yeah it became apparent pretty quickly that vinyl wasn't the way to go with this house, at all. Way too much character, would've been a sin.
karen_e_vandewater
4 years ago
Stephen - I'm in your area and would love to get the contact information on the crew you used.... just bought a 100 year old house that needs shingles replaced and trying to decide what to do. with them.... thank you for the information!!
Stephen Costa
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
@karen_e_vandewater - sure thing, this is them: http://www.expressremodelinggroup.com/

The owner Wagner has expanded the business quite a bit I think since they worked our project.
Izzy Mn
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Just have to say really pretty house. I see it had a historic plate.

The interior looks like my great-great grandparents house that was a bed and breakfast for a while and stayed there for a few nights. Gave owner some pictures of gggf who built it and some history. It is about four times the size, kitchen redone looks very similar to yours also. The owners at the time tried to get it designated as a historic home but because of the vinyl siding (which matches really well the original size shape and color, even though any accent trim done in wood) the vinyl disqualified it from such designation.

http://weisschoice.com/property.php?ID=937

Before Vinyl Siding: Rip-off shingles, or go over them??

Stephen Costa

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Before Vinyl Siding: Rip-off shingles, or go over them??

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