How low can a header go?? Help.

13 years ago

I posted this on the kitchen site (as that is where I've been hanging out lately), but was hoping that someone over here might be able to help. Here's my original post and some responses thus far:

So they have begun knocking down my supporting walls (yikes), and now I'm second guessing things. Specifically, the contractor is putting in two headers to hold up the second floor of the house - good idea not to have the house drop in. However, the headers look much lower than I imagined they would. Can anyone give me an idea of what an acceptable height for a header would be? If my ceilings are only 8 foot and these things are another foot below that - am I crazy??? Help. I'm feeling a bit sea sick.

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Posted by sue36 (My Page) on Sat, Sep 18, 10 at 23:52

Is this going to look like a framed opening or just a beam hanging down? If a beam, I think it will look low.

Headers should be engineered based on the load and the width of the opening. Dimensional lumber results in a larger header. You can used an engineered product or steel and the header will be smaller.

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Posted by manhattan42 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 19, 10 at 8:10

Code required minimum height under a header or beam is 6'8". (80")

Thats the same height as a doorway opening.

If your headers are 12" below ceiling height, they will be 84"...slightly above door opening height and well above minimum.

------------

One way to reduce the header projection below the ceiling or to eliminate it altogether is to build what is called a 'blind header'.

A 'blind header' is built right up into the ceiling. Rather than support the joists under the ceiling, the joists are attached to it.

The result is a flush ceiling or a much less pronounced projection of the header below ceiling level.

See if it is possible for your builder to use this technique.

Posted by missmuffet (My Page) on Sun, Sep 19, 10 at 9:12

Thank you both so much for responding.

Sue36 - It will look like a beam, and there will be two intersecting each other. We had asked our contractor about using steel and he said that it flexes more than the engineered product. He is using an LVL-LAM beam (a double 2x12 that is spanning 12 feet.

Manhattan42 - I'm curious about the blind header. How does a blind header attach to the existing joist and still support the weight of the wall? Even if I could reduce these headers by six inches, it would be fantastic.

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Comments (2)

snoonyb
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"there will be two intersecting each other."

Unless you have two bearing walls, one is perpendicular to the bearing point and the other is parallel with it.
IE. one is carrying the weight of the joist, and the other is carrying the combined weight and transferring that load too knew bearing points.

A "blind" or recessed header is just that, recessed into the joist cavity and the joists are connected to it with simpson connectors.
In many cases the "headers" in place will roughly describe an altered "T" or "L".
It is also the case that when the size of the carrying members is greater in height than the depth of the joist bay, the headers may be partially exposed.

A conversation with your contractor will go yards to clear this up.
macv
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The suggestion that an LVL beam would deflect less than a steel beam for a given depth is not true. Steel has a Modulus of Elasticity 15 times that of Laminated Veneer Lumber so in the real world a built up LVL beam would usually have to be about 50% taller than a steel beam to meet the minimum deflection requirement. You need someone more qualified (or honest) to design this structure.

If cost is not the limiting issue the shortest height beam would be steel (probably only 8" tall) and putting it above the ceiling should hide it completely.

I recently put a 15 ft. beam above a ceiling supporting a floor and a roof ridge beam above and it required an W8x21 (8" tall, 21 plf) steel beam.

Where I live an LVL or steel beam would have to be stamped by an engineer since such elements are not covered by prescriptive building codes.
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I wanted to say a couple of things, all of them very generic. You are indicating that your ceilings are 8 feet and that your header sticks down another foot, so a 12" header. A 12" header is a pretty standard size particularly when there is a second story above it. By standard I mean I'm not surprised to hear it's that large. It's true that switching away from a standard wood beam to a gluelam would make the header small but not substantially so. You might gain an inch or so. You might need to switch up to a steel beam in order to get a 4" difference and a steel beam is an entirely different chicken. It will cost much more and usually needs to be okayed by an engineer before placement. I wanted to point out that a blind header is necessarily more expensive than a standard header install. I can't tell you how MUCH more but definitely expect additional money to be involved. Most headers hang down way further than expected. Good luck!
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How low can a header go?? Help.

Comments (2)

snoonyb

macv

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