Breezy- Do you have a light, in the pantry? I would want to really be able to see everything on the shelves...so some bright lighting would be wonderful!

I'm guessing you have a built in light, included with the vent, over the range. What about over the bench table? There's a light behind the bench...and one behind the chairs, but nothing directly over the table. Do you need a small pendant here?

While can lights are great for lighting up the area, have you thought any more about pendants over the island? Would the same kind that you have over the buffet, work over the island, or maybe the bench table? Did your lighting person have any suggestions? I've seen some really cute, small pendants used by Candice Olson that look great and provide light over a smaller table :)

Also, are you going to be highlighting any art/pictures? That's another thing I really like on Divine Design, how she uses the lighting to highlight certain features or art...and you have such a great wall for that in the dining room and that wall in the living room.

I'm also guessing you're already doing this, but just in case, are you having different dimmers for kitchen and family room? Do you have one line that can be left on low while watching TV? It's just amazing, how much you can enhance a room, with well planned lighting!

I have dimmers every which where.
Over the peninsula, over the tables, my can lights in the kitchen, then those over the dining area. And that's not talking about the bedrooms, den, living room, etc.

I highly, also recommend getting two-way switches. I can walk in the kitchen from the dining room & hit the switch so the lights are on ahead of me. I leave the room & can turn them off at either end.

Speaking of turning them off, I'd put a light in the pantry, but put it on a motion sensor or a pressure switch. LIke when you open a car door?

I have motion switches in my closets, bathrooms, mud room, laundry, garage, on the outside lights, front and back. I also put quad outlets in everywhere. It's not a heck of a lot more money (All my Decora outlets were given to me.) and I already fill most of them up. In the kitchen, office, & den (think stereo & tv stuff) I sometimes wish I'd gone with six. My point is you can never have enough 'ltricity!

If you have any question as to whether or not it's too dark, add a light. Better now than trying to do it later and fussing about it for years.

I like an operating room, too.

Christine

A couple of points that I would research a little more ; like lavender lass - I would consider pendant lights over the island rather than can lights. If that area is to be an informal eating area I think pendant lights would be nicer. They could be the same as or flow with/tie into the lights over the peninsula.
The can lights around the perimeter of the kitchen - it looks like that they are going to be placed right over the counter - is that right? They are usually placed more into the kitchen to avoid shadows formed from your head as it is leaning over to work.
Will you have any table lamps in the family room area? I'm concerned that the lighting in the kitchen/informal eating area and family room is all very utilitarian - with nothing "pretty" in it. "Pretty" can still be functional but can also add some decorating depth to the space.

Maybe post this on the lighting forum and see what kind of feedback you get.
I don't know about distances that lights should be placed etc. Have you checked with code in your area regarding electrical for both plugs and lights?

LL--there is a light in the pantry. It's hard to see the blue line on my plan above, but it'll be a strip of light above the door, on a switch. The lighting lady didn't seem to give any thought to the kitchen table, did she? I want some light there too.

I'm still struggling with pendants over the island. From what I've read, the best height for pendants is 60-66" off the floor. I stand 67-68" (depending on my stress level)off the floor. Those pendants would be right in my view across the room to the family room. I think they would bug me I was looking at some smaller ones for over the peninsula as that area isn't big. Are you saying pendants IN ADDITION to the cans as drawn?

I don't want a jumble of stuff in and hanging from the ceiling.

I'll put dimmers somewhere--wherever it makes some sense.

Christine--The temporary house we're in now has dimmers in every single room. It drives me nuts. I have never onced used any of them in the 5 months we've lived here except the one in the masterbath on occassion for brushing my teeth late at night. You reminded me that I'll need to figure out my switch placement too!

Blfenton--sorry I didn't reply earlier. The main function of the island is prep. That's the spot where super bright light is the most important to me. Would pendants give me better light for prep?

The lighting lady was very specific about placing those cans where she did saying that I wouldn't get shadows. I have no clue about cans so thats why I posted. They should really be placed over the aisles? That wouldn't produce shadows?

The family room will have one table lamp somewhere near the letter F where it says Family Room. I need floor outlets there too. How about a wall sconce on each side of the FR TV cabs? I did consider replacing all of the FR cans with two ceiling fixtures, but is that enough lights?

I posted on the Lighting Forum too. It's just not as active as here.

Hi Breezy,

I agree with BLfenton - I think your cans are placed too close to your cabinets. My designer placed a row of cans in the aisle between my island and perimeter cooktop. I have six can lights in the aisle (one on each side), plus one over the sink and my light that is part of my hood. In addition, I have two pendants over my island and UCLs (Xenon round) under each upper cabinet. When everything is on full blast, I have A TON of light!

I think its up to you whether or not you get pendants or keep cans over your island. Our designer said the same to me. I wanted the pendants for decoration as we had no other pendants anywhere in the kitchen and I felt having them would really add something to my kitchen. Its all personal taste.

Here's a pic of my kitchen where you can get an idea of the can placement. You can see two can lights plus the ones over the sink. The third on that side is evenly spaced on the aisle. The other three are directly across from those on the other aisle. I think the proximity of the can lights to the cabinets and the closeness of them to each other might make it look like "ceiling acne".

Your family room lighting looks good. Will you also have some lamps? If our can lights in our FR are on at night we sometimes get reflection on our tv.

Rachel

Breezy- Measurements are always based on an averge. I'm 5'10" and if I put in pendants, they won't be hanging down, bumping me on the head...even if they're a little higher than recommended.

If your lighting lady didn't even plan for your kitchen table...maybe you need to find a different lighting specialist. Like anything else, I'd want three bids or estimates, before I decided...and maybe another place will do a better job with placement.

As for pendants, ask them what they think about the bench with table...and the height. It's going to take some creativity to really light that area up, because it's a unique idea. Any time you think outside the box, you need to find someone, who can also think outside the box, to help you make your area beautiful...and functional :)

breezygirl says "I'm still struggling with pendants over the island. From what I've read, the best height for pendants is 60-66" off the floor. I stand 67-68" (depending on my stress level)off the floor. Those pendants would be right in my view across the room to the family room. I think they would bug me "

how about adjustable pendants like what I've seen in the Pottery Barn catalog?

Here is a link that might be useful: Pottery Barn Porter Pendant (for those who like alliteration)

Breezy - I LOVE lots of light too, which was the driving force behind our kitchen addition. I needed more natural light( which I got and love love love) and when we put the lights in my husband was worrying about burning his retinas when they are all on!!LOL They are all on dimmers and there are mutliple switches to control them all.

The placement of the lights over the counters - we discussed this with both our designers and electrician to ensure no shadows would be cast. The cans need to be placed about 16-17" from the wall so they are in front of you as you stand working at the counter. Too far away from the wall and you will cast shadows. We have 4" cans - what size will you be using? It looks like you have 3 cans over about an 8' section. See my picture of our kitchen with 3 cans over two 8' sections to give an idea of what it will look like. I don't have any uppers though which may affect where they are placed. If you put cans over your aisles then they will cast shadows on your work surface..but if you have undercab lighting perhaps this becomes your task lighting for the counters? Sorry it is not the best picture because it wasn't taken to show the light placements. In the picture they look so small but believe me they give out a lot of bright light.

If you like adjustable pendants, try this site. I got them for either side of the bed in the MBR.

Here is a link that might be useful: cool pulley lights

Breezy- Here are a few pictures, to give you some lighting ideas, with your island/bench situation.

Obviously, not your style of kitchen, but if you just look at lighting...one has the cans over the island, with a small chandelier over the the table...the other has the pendants over the island and it looks like a can over the table.

I hope this helps....HAPPY BIRTHDAY :)

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Ohhh Breezygirl - I just feel awful and I am SO SORRY - I'm yelling in hopes that you will hear my apology. I just read your birthday post and feel like I am, inadvertently and through ignorance/stupidity part of the problem.
I had said that your pot lights shouldn't be over the counter - now I usually check my info before spouting off and this time I didn't. My pot lights ARE over the counter - they are equidistant between the cabinet fronts and the edge of the counter and so are probably about 18"-20" from the wall.
In our 20' x 10' open-ended G-shaped kitchen we have 6 potlights - 3 on either side of the aisle.
Over the peninsula we have 3 pendant lights set 36" over the counter. They are set high because my DS's are 6'4" and I am 5'8" and wanted to beable to see the view through them and out the window. And we have undercabinet lighting for the counter.
In our 20' x 13' eating area/sitting area combo (the peninsula actually straddles the boundary between the kitchen and eating area) we have 2 bowl-shaped fixtures each with 3x100W bulbs in them and then a table lamp in the sitting area.

So, I think, your can lights in the kitchen are fine as they are located. Over the island what about a couple of can lights and then over the table a light fixture (not a pendant but maybe your chosen pendants have a table fixture of the same family) which should be hung 30"-34" above the table. And if you hang it inline with your pendants it could be tied together.
Your family room is a conundrum. Personally, I prefer lighting fixtures, rather than can lights in a sitting/relaxing area. I find can lights - even on a dimmer - are a little utilitarian and harsh and actual fixtures can add ambiance to the space.

Again, I am sooo sorry and I hope that your day improves. Wish I was closer to take the kids while you went shopping.

Rachel--Thanks for chiming in. Seeing your lights and hearing about your experience helps me. I never get tired of looking at your gorgeous kitchen!

LL--I don't want the pendants to be in my way visually or physically. Maybe I could find something shorter? You make an excellent point about her not planning for lights over the kitchen table. I felt like she was a bit old school in her designs and thinking too. She was the only choice in town. I'll have to find someone farther up I-5.

How on earth did you find those pics with the inset bench??? They sure help me think my idea of doing it isn't crazy! Thank you so much!

Mtnfever--I love those fixtures. I just saw them in Houzz the other day. They seem like they would only work with taller ceilings. Mine are only 7.5'. I should have put that in my opening post.

Muskokascp--I was planning on 6" cans to match the 6" cans in the living room at the bottom of the plan. Thanks for the pic. It helps me visualize. Love the floors!

Mtnrdredux--Cool lights indeed!

Blfenton--Don't feel bad. I was already guessing the lighting plan wasn't going to cut it. I think I like the suggestion of having cans over the island and a pendant over the kitchen table. Unfortunately, I always think about function more than form. I'll rethink the ceiling fixtures in the family room. The seating arrangement there precludes much light from the floor. How about a sconce on each side of the TV/entertainment center? Thanks for your birthday wishes.

For the recessed cans, what are you planning on using (incandescent, CFL, LED)? I ask because each has a different coverage area. To me, it seems like there are a lot of cans in the ceiling, very close together. You may be able to space them out more to lessen the "swiss cheese" effect. -- We're doing 6" LEDs and are running them about 4' apart on average.

I also would put a nice light/pendant over the sink rather than another can. (I know you have a window there, but a small pendant, could be really nice.

Overall the plan looks good, but I'd like to know more about the light types to ensure sufficent lumens everywhere.

Zacs--I don't like CFL and I've never seen LED. My other 6" cans are incandescent so I was planning those for the new ones. I thought about a pendant over the sink too. Do they work with low ceilings like I have?

And I forgot to answer the earlier question about light over the rangetop. Yes, the hood will have a light or two.

If you told your lighting person your ceiling height that may have been why she put can lighting in your family room area.
7'5" is 89" and you need to decide how much head clearance you want for people walking around. If you're putting lights over coffee tables you have more leeway for this exercise.

If you want clearance of say 6'8" (or 80") that gives you a possible light height of 9" that you can fit. That means you need to be looking at "flush mount" lights for lighting installed on the ceiling.
There's a really good website (connected to a Vancouver lighting store) but it then connects to a lot of suppliers. You can put in your requirements, for eg, flushmount, type of finishings, type of style, etc, and it will give you a bunch of examples. If you see anything that might work your local shop can probably get it. Failing wanting to do that, it would at least show you examples of stuff that is available. You can even look up pendant lights.
I'm going to try to connect it but if I don't, just google Robinson lighting and then go to the lighting section.

Hi again. One of the first questions the designer asked was my ceiling height. It's actually 91". Every extra inch counts at my height. ;)

Thanks for the website referral. I've been looking at some of the major lighting company websites, but then I had to go back to plumbing issues.

I really want a drum shade/chandelier for the dining room so I could work from there.

I appreciate your help today.

Wendy

Even a pretty flush mount light over the sink would look nice. For some reason to me, a sink looks better with a light fixture above it. (Now, mind you, in my own kitchen you will not see the light ... but we have a skylight directly over it and will be "hiding" a cheap-o track light up in it.)

If you're going incandescent just to match the others, there are LEDs that can be installed easily to replace the older lights as well. I love the warm light from the Cree CR6 LEDs. I'm putting new ones in all the cans in the kitchen and replaced all of the old cans with the Home Depot version (~$50 per can but will last ~15 years). All in all, the energy usage in my new kitchen for lights equals what I used to spend on ONE incandescent light. (I'm now using less than 100 watts for the whole kitchen including 7 LEDs cans, 1 CFL pendent, 1 LED track and the LED undercabinets!) This was a splurge -- but a good one.

PS: Happy Birthday!

Your plan seems not too bad. Remember that under-cabinet lights add an important "fill" and are really cool nightlights too. I'd move the cans above the counters out another 2 inches so they also wash some light onto the cabinet fronts.
I'd make sure the two sets of lights were switched separately.
How high are your ceilings? If you can get away with 5" cans, try to do so; they are much less obtrusive (not as commercial-looking) as the 6" versions.
Use Alzak-type trims. They eliminate glare from the bulb. You only see the illumination, not the source.
Casey

A Very Merry Unbirthday, breezy. Hope your chickadee is feeling better, and you as well.

The problem with pics posted here is that you may be able to see the location of the fixtures, but it is often difficult to tell what other lighting (.e.g. professional lighting or camera flash) was provided for the pics themselves.

When you are cooking all day and all night, what you want is task lighting, including UCLs, pendants at a proper height over your island, and light over your range.

When you are sweeping the floor in the wee hours of the morning, THEN the cans will definitely come in handy, dimmable or not.

I think you need

Zacsdaddy--thanks for the LED info. I'll see if I have time to check those out. I like the idea of a flushmount above the sink. It would be something interesting without a stalactite hanging in my face. Thanks for the birthday wishes.

Casey--I only have that one 3' stretch of uppers in the top left corner. I will UC lights there. Xenon? My ceilings are 91.5" short. I didn't know 5" cans existed! That seems like it would be better than 4" (I find them too small) and better than the large 6". I'll google Alzak.

Honorbiltkit--Thanks for your unbirthday wishes. DD seems to feel a bit better today. She slept through the night at least. I want major task lighting when I'm cooking! I get confused about what kind of lights provide task lighting. More to research...

John--That's exactly what I'm after!! ;)

Is there any standard of wattage per square foot in a kitchen?

Since I can't have cans, I was hoping I could avoid them completely. Have people gotten by with just task lighting? That's what I have now (two 75W wall lamps near range, 100W little IKEA mini strip over the sink and a 50/100/150 W table lamp on the counter) and I find it quite satisfactory. This cooking space is smaller than my new kitchen will be (almost no counter space, etc.) so I was expecting to need more fixtures, including some pendants or spots over the narrow island. Plus I'll have a range hood with its own lights over the range.

What am I missing about the need for so much light in a kitchen? I just don't get it! I look at the kitchen pics here and think/thought that all that illumination is just for the pics .... is it really necessary? My new kitchen is not a hang-out or eating place - just work space.

L

I need light. Over the past couple of years that need has increased dramatically. I don't know how old you are, but I'm told it happens as we age. My old kitchen had one ceiling fixture with two 60 watt bulbs, a small can over the sink, and the light from the OTR MW. I constantly had shadows everywhere and it drove me BONKERS!! I had to add a couple of lamps under the uppers to help, but it still wasn't enough.

I move fast in the kitchen. I cook a lot and am over-ambitious with what I try to make. Consequently, I'm in a hurry. With kids fussing around left and right, toys flying through the kitchen, cats pestering me for food, my stomach growling because I'm hungry, and Children's Songs From Around the World blaring in the other room, I worry about my very sharp knives relieving me of a much-needed finger because I have trouble really seeing where its landing.

Like I said, I want maximum light when I'm going through this daily battle. When it's over, I'm happy to turn the lights down a bit.

Other dimly lit rooms in my house bother me too. As does my MIL's house where she insists that its mood lighting to have a single lamp from the family room light up a dark dining room during a meal.

I hear you, Breezy! I have a ton of can lights in my new kitchen. What I did do, however, is make sure they were wired on separate switches in zones.

I have the clean-up sink, coffee bar, frig on one zone, then the cooktop zone, then the island zone, and then the buffet zone. I'll have a pendant over the sink and sconces over the buffet with a TV in between. ;D

All the switches are in very handy locations, but I don't have to have everything on at once. There are very few occasions where everything is on all at once, but they can be if I need it.

The single middle one directly over the mantle is left on at night sometimes, at least until my UC lighting is finished.

No pendants for me either for the same reasons you stated. I will have flush mount ceiling fan in a some rustic design. Everyone tried to talk me out of that too!

I have cans in every room, but they are not the first lights we turn on in the other rooms. I have sconces and lamps as well.

The only thing I noticed on your plan is that the can light over the bench may create a shadow on that diners' plates. You may need a light over the table to compensate for that.

Breezy,
Thanks for your reply.

I'm in my 60's and haven't seen an increase in need for higher light levels, yet.

But perhaps one of the reasons the low lights that I have been usng is because they are not mounted on the ceiling but at a low level, i.e. below shelf above sink, on the wall not much higher than my head and table lamp on my counter. All these, though relatively low wattage compared to the ambient light plans I see here, concentrate on putting light right on the surfaces where I need it, and I'm never working in my own shadow as the light is usually falling in front of me, or from the side, straight to the work surfaces.

It's clear I have to put some more thought into this area of my kitchen plan.

L