Malhgold...you said the 2nd option was "...over in the snack area just south of the DR door...". Do you mean in the DR itself? Or did you mean north-east of the DR door or south (sort of) of the Great Room door...actually in that hallway?

In both cases, I think I prefer it where you have it in the layout you posted. It's easily accessible to both the kitchen and the snack area. If it's in the snack area, it's not very accessible to the kitchen and would be, I think, a pain to get food for cooking.

Having the Advantium next to the refrigerator is a big plus IMO.

It think the best location for the coffee maker is in the snack area on the counter that's adjacent to the kitchen. As to the toaster oven, perhaps you could find a place for it elsewhere...maybe in the little "garage" to the left of the Advantium in your layout. If not, then at the end of the snack counter would probably work...along w/the coffee maker.

HTH!

The snack area is to the left of where the arrows are pointing that indicates where the Great Room is. Basically, in the vestibule leading to the Great Room. There are a couple of cabinets showing on the layout and the rest got cut off.

Everyone, I think, is likely to want you to have everything handy to the main kitchen, while you were trying to keep the snack and breakfast area separated, because of a history at your house at traffic pile-ups by the fridge and adjacent counters...right where you want to be working or doing cleanup. If you have frig/freezer, coffee, AND toaster oven in the main kitchen, is there anything left for the snack area?

It also may be easily missed that you have frig drawers planned in the prep sink/range area.

I've already told Malhgold my opinion, but will post it here just to add it to the discussion. I think both ways work, but have been leaning toward the frig/freezer in the snack area, kind of like having them in a pantry. They aren't, afterall, crucial to cooking, with the frig drawers by the range. The frig column would be at the kitchen end, and still close to what would be a nicely open counter, and the island, where they do a lot of casual dining. Then the snack and bfast tasks can be accomplished at the open counter or in the snack area, but still out of the work area. If the frig is on that short wall of the kitchen, I think the family will likely revert to pattern, standing there with the doors open, then tending to their tasks on the adjacent counter, where there won't be enough room, and recreating the traffic tie-ups she doesn't like now. Just my 2 cents. :-)

As I said, I think either will work, and it's just nice to have you so close to a plan that you like.

Did you give up the 2 island idea, or is that still kicking around in your mind?

It looks like there's no longer an undercounter refrigerator in the snack area. If not, I agree with Rhome, that the fridge will work better there since you have the drawers in the island. Keeping the freezer in the main part of the kitchen, with the advantium next to it, would leave you more counter space in the snack area and add an extra two feet in the kitchen, giving you more counter space, upper cabinets and room for the toaster oven. Isn't that the whole point of the freedom towers? I know you were worried about the 24" width refrigerator; if you separated the fridge and freezer, you could fit a 30" one in the snack area.

Of course, it you love the look of the two towers side by side, that changes everything. In that case, I'm not sure what I'd do. I think, like Rhome, I'd move them to the snack area.

You could leave the frig in the kitchen, move the freezer to the snack area, omit the frig drawers in the island and put an undercounter frig in the snack area.

My gut reaction is that I would keep them as drawn and move the fridge drawers to the snack center to accomplish the traffic out of the kitchen objective. Moving a major kitchen piece to the snack area would seem to make that worse in my mind.

I LOVE my fridge drawers, but we use ours in the breakfast room. I'd love them in the kitchen too, but frankly, I use a lot of stuff that wouldn't all fit in the fridge drawers for cooking -- the meat, the cheese, the eggs and butter, the condiments, the produce, and more condiments. The drawers could be great for meat and produce, but where I don't see them working as well would be all the condiments and such. And what you need at a snack center works so easily in the drawers. That's really not that far from what we have, and it's working very well.

So, Lascatx, you don't think the fridge would be too far from the range and prep areas, crossing zones besides, by having it where it is drawn? It creates the potential of having an open dw in between the cook and the fridge. I hope you know that I'm not arguing, but just asking your opinion. The fridge location has been the hardest thing, and, actually, the subject of Malhgold's very first post about her layout...many moons ago... ;-)

I would also rather see the refrigerator drawers in the snack area or an UC refrigerator. I think the main refrigerator really belongs in the kitchen, not the snack area. The freezer, especially, I think belongs in the kitchen if you use frozen veggies and other frozen foods for dinner.

Malhgold, are you really going to be making all your breakfasts & lunches in the snack area? That's the main pathway b/w the Great Room and the kitchen/DR/etc. It seems to me that planning on doing so much cooking in that area is just asking for traffic congestion problems. It sounds like the only time you will be using the main kitchen in any given day is for dinner...and the main kitchen is where you have the most room plus your informal seating.

I'm also just trying to help, not argue!

I think if ref drawers are near the range, it would work fine. If I remember correctly, malhgold doesn't entertain a lot, so I'm not worried about re-creating the pile-up and having it block the hallway to the great room.

I am kinda staring at the positioning of the advantium next to the ref on the counter and wondering which way its door opens. If the ref moved out, the advantium could move to the end of the counter nearest the snack center?

Buehl--Good points about the freezer. What do you think of keeping the frig in the kitchen, moving the freezer to the snack area & using a freezer drawer (for frozen veggies, etc.) on the island? Thinking about my own kitchen frig/ freezer, it would be great if I could separate the cooking stuff from the ice cream, parrot food, frozen pizzas, popsicles that I have to burrow past to find the green pepper, chives & broccoli.

I think this may be coming down to the ways different people do different things.

Not understanding the perception that there be any 'cooking' in the hallway? Except for toast and snack items in a small microwave? The original idea was to get the toaster oven and maybe micro away from the work area, so the crowd (her family) isn't under her feet every time they feel hungry.

IF I need the freezer for making dinner, I usually access it once. It doesn't need to take up prime real estate, which is why my all-freezer is in an alcove across from my walk-in pantry. It was first planned for a storage room down the hall...That wouldn't have bothered me either, except for wanting quicker access to ice.

I had the same thought about the Advantium, bmorepanic...If she doesn't want to use room for her small microwave in the snack area, the location you mentioned, I think, would be the perfect position between both places. Might be good near the cooking area if the snack area doesn't need it. (But, M, I know you mentioned using a current micro in the snack area...If it dies, would you get another or want everyone to start using the Advantium instead? That could make a big difference in where you want the Adv.)

It may be how you expect to use it, but I'd rather be crossing the DW than crossing the DW and around the island and across a hall to get to the fridge and freezer for anything that isn't in the drawers. I also see my use and have a hard time getting past the things that we put into a firdge and into the drawers. They fit how I cook and use them, but even then, we do have to cross over to the other for something now and then. You definitely want to minimize that.

I went back to look at the OP. It seems like the main con to the fridge and freezer in the kitchen is the toaster. I do more cooking and going into the fridge than making toast. A toaster is a small appliance that can go almost anywhere. You can easily grab a loaf of bread and move it to the toaster. How often do you do that in a day or a week and how often do you open your fridge? What do you wnat to be in the fridge drawers, what will fit and store well there and what else will you need to cook in a day or in a week?

For my own use, I would be comfortable with the freezer being in the snack area, but I think I want my 13 cu ft of fridge in the kitchen and the 5 cu ft in the snack area. What's more important for you?

I'm also one to build to suit your own needs and not worry too much about resale, and I do believe that most folks buy a kitchen that looks nice without thinking about how it will function. However, I do have to wonder if your larger fridge and freezer, especially built-ins you would want to boast about, outside the main kitchen work area would draw notice and give pause to potential buyers.

I do agree with rhome that it can work either way. What we are all telling you is based on what we have and how we work, how we are used to working. There's no substitute for studying the pieces and your own working and cooking habits to figure out what will fir where and where and how you need it. It's the part that DH said made his brain hurt.

I think it's looking nice and it is good to see something gelling for you. Good luck with the nits.

Thanks for all the help. I sort of figured everyone might have a different opinion, because as Lascatx said, everyone does function differently.

I'm actually starting to wonder if it's the fact that the frig and clean up sink are in the same spot as in my current kitchen that is really causing all the issues. Maybe if I move the clean up sink to the island that would help alleviate that pile up in the corner. I could then have the toaster/coffee maker under the window and move the frig drawers to the right side of the clean up sink. Prep sink would either go away or could put a small one where the current clean up sink is.

Just a thought.

I actually like what you're suggesting...your island is big enough to accommodate a big sink w/workspace on both sides + DW and you appear to have plenty of overhang room for seating w/o having to worry about splashing. I think I would go ahead and put a small prep sink where the old sink was to allow the possibility of prepping while someone is cleaning up or to have 2 prep areas. Also, you wouldn't have to cross the aisle w/hot pasta.

HTH!

I think it could be minorly worse. Instead of the pile-up being mostly at the edge, it would be immediately behind you with everyone to-ing and fro-ing to the same sink you are trying to use.

bmore-what if there is a prep sink where the current clean up sink is, on the perimeter under the window?

Does anyone have an issue with the island "sticking out" beyond the threshhold to the Great Room?

Agreeing with what bmore said, plus, you didn't want cleanup mess on your island...and now what would be the use of all that cabinetry in the vestibule? --Time to quit thinking! ;-D

Really, I do think maybe some of this needs to stew a bit. If you can with the current kitchen very much in the way, try to wander through your space and do a lot of imagining. Look from every angle, in and out of the kitchen.

What do you see? What do you want to see? How will it be to walk here and there to perform different tasks? Can it work right if the sink and frig are back where they live now, with other things so different? Or do those need to change, too? Will it feel the same and be disappointing that you didn't 'fix' that when you had the chance? And I don't mean walk around quickly and decide what 'can work, even though it's just a little inconvenient'. I mean really feel the space and the layouts and let your gut do some of the talking. Go with how you'll love it. You've never headed toward what's expected, but yearn for something unique, but that works, of course...but for your family, not someone else's. Think of what YOU have in your frig and freezer and how you need to use those appliances... Remember how you wanted the snack area to function and 'see' where it will do that best. Remember the other things that were important on your list.

I spent hours staring at renderings and plans for our kitchen...Getting to know it, imagining how it would feel to walk into it and work in it,...and sometimes realizing something needed fixing or changing. It really did help. Maybe you need renderings of both ideas. You know where to get them!

You've put in a lot of time and work to get you to this plan with these 2 alternatives. I hate to see you take a step or 6 back, and start changing the whole thing again. But, of course, I'm with you if that's really what you want to do; if you feel that with this plan you'd be 'settling.' We don't want that!

Not much time right now, but wanted to addressthe fridge sink issue. My new fridge and sink are in the same places they were, but they function differently because we added the fridge drawers in the breakfast room and a prep sink on the opposite side of the island and took away some of the traffic in both cases. Same location may not function the same if other actors are changed. You gootta run through it in you mind -- breakfast, lunch and dinner and the in betweens.

Malhgold, why did you take the undercounter fridge out of the snack area? It seems to me that if you put it back there, traffic would flow the way you want. The kids could fix themselves snacks and get drinks, then have the option of sitting at the island (which isn't far at all) or in the family room (if that's allowed) and all without getting underfoot. You then have your beautiful towers side by side, fully accessible for cooking etc. and you get another cabinet in the island instead of the fridge drawers. You could even do a SZ fridge/freezer drawer in the snack area if ice is important.

I know what it's like to keep going round and round trying to get it right. I'm to the point where I just don't want to think about my layout anymore, but we're need to order cabinets soon if we want to be done by fall so I really have to finalize it. I'm getting dangerously close to just throwing up my arms and declaring "It's only a kitchen! I want my life back!".

cheri - I feel your pain!!! Honestly, I can't remember why I took those frig drawers out of the snack area. As I'm sure you can understand, one change leads to another and then you can't really remember where you started. Maybe that is the answer. Put the frig drawers back there and that will help keep "others" from constant interference in the kitchen. Off to the KD this afternoon. We'll see what happens. Thanks!!

Kind of late chiming in, but I have to say that the layout as shown is very, very similar to mine, and the work flow is fabulous. The range, fridge, and both sinks are in the same spots (actually my prep sink is at the left end of the island). My dishwasher is on the other side of the sink, and my pantry is across the island, but otherwise it's very similar. Anyway, I just wanted to say that your layout will work.

I agree that moving your fridge drawers over to the snack area would solve a lot of problems. Also, is that your MW next to the fridge? Moving that to the snack area would seem to make sense, as well.