Kitchen Layout Critique

10 years ago

Hi everyone!

I know that there are many experienced and knowledgeable people on this board and me and my husband don't fall into that category lol.

We are about to finalize our kitchen plan and put in the order and dont want to have over looked any details.

We cant afford a designer so we we at things on our own and are looking for input about our kitchen design to try to ensure we don't end up with a 'what the hell were we thinking!" moment once the reno is done.

I have been reading up on previous posts to try to cover all our bases but we are still hesitant to pull the trigger. Any suggestions, comments, words of caution with our plan?

Any thoughts would help!

Thanks in advance

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Comments (12)

Disaster28
Original Author
10 years ago
Here is the overhead of the layout. The island base is 4ft wide with a 12 inch over hang and approximately 8ft 2 inc long. There is a bump out at the stove which isnt shown. There is 4 ft cabinet to cabinet between the island and the stove wall cabinets.
greenhaven
10 years ago
Did you plan for a dishwasher?
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Stacy, If you're going back to the drawing board, try a layout (among other variations) that follows how your food as it flows through the kitchen. (Sorry to be boringly posting my familiar theme, again!) Where does it come in the kitchen? Where is it stored -pantry, fridge cupboards? Then imagine a path that extends from the storage to prep > Have prep sink nearby or on the direct pathway to prep area (to wash those veggies or add water to the frozen peas or wash your own hands after handling the food). Many people find trash is most important here rather than at dish-scraping point near DW. HAving two trashes is OK, as well Cooking point (with at least one oven right under the hood to capture smoke and smell from roasted or broiled meat) > Handy storage near stove area for those items that are dished into directly from stove. Could be individual plates, or platters, depending on your style of everyday service (no need for all dishes here, just whatever pieces the food is usually put in or on before it goes to the table). It's better to have to walk into the the pantry to fetch a rarely-used pot/pan, than to have to walk to get the dishes you plunk the food on at every meal. > Path to food eating area > Path back to main clean-up point (with DW, trash if desired, obviously sink, etc.) This should be away from pathway between food storage and cooking/prep. It's good if there's dish storage nearby for easy of emptying DW. But don't store serving pieces (plates or platters) here if it means you have to walk away from cooking to retrieve them. Instead take those steps to their storage place at the (calmer, less critical???) point when you're just putting things away. When the food is done, the service dishes should be immediately at hand. For the accessory zone of a separate baking area, do a version of this same planning. Figure where to put your eating area after you've worked out your cooking flow plan. After all, it's a kitchen not a dining room, right? Think food flow, first, then populate an efficient plan with all the goodies you see in kitchen-porn pictures. If you start with all the goodies then you'll end up designing around them and that subordinates the work flow to the stuff arrrangement, if you see what I mean. You will still have pretty, but pretty based on efficiency, not a list of wanna-haves. Less angst, too, because less chance you have to give up on something your heart is really ,set on, or worse pivot the whole function of the kitchen around a feature that drives the design without making it easier, or more pleasant, to get your family fed a thousand times every year. Also no kitchen design is ever completely perfect, from the efficicency point of view, but don't give up until you've wrung every morsel of ease-of-use out of whatever spatial constraints you have. I think some of the biggest gains come in repeatedly tweaking the plan even after you've got the basic outline of the zones. The little changes you work out now while you can still make small alterations will lessen the regrets later. Even after you've got the bones, try things like walking through your most-common meal preps: draw the paths you'd take on your proposed plan. Think about where the other people will fetch up. Make cardboard boxes the size of your drawer interiors and stow your stuff (or try to!). Forget storing "likes with likes", store stuff according to where you use it first, feel free to break up sets. It doesn't usually cost any more to work the kinks out at this stage, so you can be as lavish with your thought and consideration as the most expensive custom kitchen ever created. Have fun, L.
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OK, that's two votes for too skinny of a wall, I'm going to work on changing the balance of the pass thru - I'll layout having two pantry cabinets with the pass thru in the middle and see how that feels. Marcolo, I think its a challenge for every kitchen - where does your dishware and glassware go? I plan on keeping the glasses closest to the fridge in the upper cabinet. Grab a glass and get some OJ type of operation. And the dishwasher is somewhat close to it as well for off loading glasses. As far as the dishes, I plan to keep them in the lower drawers in the island. I'm pretty sure most of my prep will be closer to the range which will be plenty of room for someone to grab a dish while I'm prepping. And close enough to the range for times when I want to grab a dish to plate a seared entree or whatnot. I'm also the only cook/baker, and I do all the prep, which makes it easier for me. So there isn't many others in the kitchen with me other than tasting and keeping me company aside from an occasional dinner party when friends help out. One day that might change when I have kids that love to cook and bake. Good luck with your planning! What stage are you at?
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Here's another option. It keeps the curved peninsula counter space and allows 5 seats - I think I like it better in this case as well. Just be sure to make the curve deep enough so there is at least 15" of clear overhang for all seats - including the end seats. The Kitchen side, however, is not angled, it's an L plus galley - much more functional and it gives you more space and better work zones. The Prep and Cooking Zones are separated from the Cleanup Zone so you can have someone cleaning up or loading/unloading the DW while others are prepping and cooking The DR doorway has been moved so the Prep & Cooking Zones are protected from through traffic. The new doorway location directs people straight through the Kitchen with no wandering into the Prep and Cooking Zones "accidentally". The primary and secondary Prep Zones are located such that the cook is facing "the action" (the FR and Dinette and backyard) and can converse with those sitting at the counter. The range is against a wall for better venting and situated so that someone can be cooking while someone else is prepping. The MW is on the periphery so both cooks and non-cooks can get to it easily and the non-cooks won't get in the way of those cooking/prepping. If you don't like the MW drawers, you could put a MW on the counter there, but I think it would be tight. Another option would be to put the MW on the counter next to the refrigerator or hang it from the upper above the DW - but only if the DW is on the left (Option A, more info about that below). For the DW on the right (Option B), I'm not a fan of the MW over the DW. For either option, I think an on-the-counter MW in that location would take too much space away from the Cleanup Zone. Personally, I think the MW drawer is the best - it's very easy to use for all ages/heights and it doesn't take away counter space or hang in your face. The refrigerator is also on the periphery for the same reason. In addition, the new location makes it easy to access it from the Kitchen, DR, Dinette, FR, and outside/Porch. The Cleanup Zone wall is 3" deeper than standard. This gives you extra space behind the sink for faucet, etc., makes it easier to clean behind the sink, and gives you more workspace on that side due to the extra 3" of depth. Those 3" make a difference!! Dish Storage is located in the Cleanup Zone - it's easily accessed from the DW, DR, and Dinette - all without getting in the way of the Prep and Cooking Zones. The Dish Hutch is 30" wide with a 27"D base cabinet and a 15"D upper cabinet. The upper cabinet can go to the counter for more storage and for a hutch look. DW - it could be on either side of the cleanup sink. I could argue for either location. Option A (my preferred): On the left, it would be closer to the Dish Hutch and it does not block the entrance to the Kitchen from the Dinette. It does block the DR...
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Here's another way of looking at your space. I think your plan is too crammed to one end and the dishwasher in the corner is a compromise I'd try to avoid. This give you seating in the kitchen, but it adds work space. the compromise is that if you have a counter depth fridge, it's about a foot farther away from the sink than the recommended maximum of 9 feet. however, by being on the other side of the kitchen, all quick drinks, snacks, microwave use, coffee maker, etc. could all be contained on that left wall outside of the clean up and cooking zones around the range and the sink.
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Disaster28
Original Author
10 years ago
Yes the dishwasher is in the island to the right of the sink. To the left of the sink is the pull out garbage receptacle.
annkh_nd
10 years ago
How high are the ceilings? How high will the cabinets go?

What's under the "glass cabinet to counter"? The base cabinet next to that is shown with doors - do you have a specific reason for having doors there instead of drawers?

How wide are the little cabinets on each side of the range? Will those be pullouts? I love the range between the windows, but I'm not sure I love those little cabinets. What kind of hood are you planning? It might look better without the cabs.

It looks like a nice space.
Cindy103d
10 years ago
Having just the one glass cabinet down to the counter would bother my sense of symmetry. Each of those aspects alone would bother me, but together it would feel like they weren't part of the same kitchen.

Consider eliminating both the small cabinets between the windows. It would open up the space visually.

Is there a reason to stop the pantry pull-outs with three? Seems like you could have a lot of great storage if you continued them higher.
greenhaven
10 years ago
I am a third for losing those tiny cabs next to the range space or hood. They will not gain you anything you cannot get6 with surrounding cabinets.
Disaster28
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for all the comments!

- ceilings are 8 ft and cabinets will be going to ceiling (with a riser and crown moulding)

- in the end cabinet (under glass cabinet) there will be a built in wine/beverage centre

- the base cabinet has doors with a top drawer simply because its what we are used to! We have never lived in a kitchen with all drawers and we assumed that some base cabinets should have doors

- cabinets on side of range hood (which is a chimney style) are not pull outs and are 12' wide. I plan to use them for spices and tea. I was hoping that for this purpose they would suffice as I'm not sure where else I would put those items if I removed those cabinets

- as for only having one glass cabinet; it was something we struggled with. We were originally going to have the two small cabinets beside the range hood also be glass but with them being so narrow we nixed that idea. We have seen the glass cabinet to the counter and fell in love with the idea and would really like to keep it. Plus it helps with having a place to display our fancy champagne glasses we got for our wedding without having to buy a "huge and totally not my thing" hutch

Thank you again for the input.....it is nice to get different and experienced perspectives
annkh_nd
10 years ago
I had a 12" cabinet next to the stove in my old kitchen - spices and teas! It was not especially useful, though I suppose if I had two of them, with half as much stuff in each, it wouldn't have been so hard to find things. A 12" cab is deeper than wide, and feels like a cave. In your case especially, where the cabinets would block the light and view from the windows, I would skip them.

Several people here have used a top drawer for spices, and been very happy with the result. I've posted a link below to a good thread.

Drawers are much more efficient than doors, but it's important to figure out what will go where. My cabinets were custom built, so I was able to specify drawer heights, to make sure the things I would put there would fit. For example, I have cake pans stored vertically in the bottom drawer of a 3-drawer stack, so I needed over 10" of usable height. The middle drawer in that stack got whatever room was left.

Here is a link that might be useful: Spice drawer thread
dilly_ny
10 years ago
Where is you dining table?
Cindy103d
10 years ago
We had spices in a narrow cabinet before and it was a constant hunt for the spice we needed. Have them in a drawer now and love it! Also moved my tea collection to a top drawer - great use of space.
greenhaven
10 years ago
Dittto annkhs whole first parargraph. I just tore out my two 12ers because they were impossible to sort through for what I needed. Mine will now go in a top drawer beside the stove.
Disaster28
Original Author
10 years ago
The dining table is on the left side of the drawing. The main floor is open concept and you can see the kitchen from the front door (the door is located across from the range).

Since it seems that the general feeling is the two cabinets beside the hood vent are awkward we were playing with the idea of having them be glass door cabinets. I did some mock ups of the kitchen without cabinets and the traditional part of me just has a hard time wrapping my head around that sort of 'look'.
We decided to go with spice pullouts beside the range to compensate.

I was thinking that maybe that would kinda have somewhat of the same effect as open shelving....sorta....or am I totally off the mark.

Oh and there are three pull outs in the pantry and the rest are fixed shelving.
I took a look at the spice drawer idea and now I want more drawers!!! I thought I wouldn't have a use for top drawers but now I'm hooked. Thankfully I have 5.

On another note....are posts beside the fridge visually that important? They are 4 inches wide for each and take up a total of 8 inches of space. We have a regular (not built in) fridge. Not sure if I want to sacrifice the space and the money to get them.

And of course....thanks for your input:)

Can't wait for the day I get to post reveal pics:)

Kitchen Layout Critique

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Disaster28
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