Kitchen Layout Critique and Help with Pass Thru

13 years ago

Hi Everyone,

I've posted only a few times before, mainly for my bathroom remodel. Now we are onto the Kitchen and working with a cabinet maker to finalize a design. I was hoping to post some pictures of the layout and ask if anyone sees any red flags or ways to improve the design, in addition, the big question I have is how does the pass thru from the Kitchen into our 'Great' room look. For me it's very unbalanced, but we want to leave a good open space for open living. Here are some pictures:

From kitchen design

From kitchen design
{{gwi:1679932}}From kitchen design

This Photo is only for perspective with the surrounding rooms, it doesn't show final kitchen design.

For appliances, I have a non-counter depth fridge (32" deep), a 30" range, a large ventahood, 32" sink, will be buying a 30" advantium, 24" dishwasher, and I'm trying to find a place for my 24" wide wine cooler.

Any thoughts on the layout???

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Comments (5)

worldmom
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Do you need the L-seating arrangement in the island, or could the wine cooler go in the end of the island (across from the pass-through)?

And regarding the pass-through, what I'm not liking about it is that narrow strip of wall. Does it need to be there for support, or could it just be open? If it were me, I would flank the opening with two tall, narrow cabinet units rather than having the single wider one on the right and the skinny wall on the left. I'm big on symmetry. ;o)

I also think I might experiment with swapping the fridge and range locations because that bulky fridge kind of boxes in the access (and light) from the patio doors. Even if you went with a cabinet depth fridge, there would be a lot more open space with the range and range cabinetry on the window/door side of the kitchen. The drawback is that I think the island would have to be shortened up a bit.
roemama
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Worldmom,

Thanks so much for the reply. Your thoughts are great, I've contemplated these same things, but my DH has talked me out of some of the design changes.

The L-seating is because a wall blocks off half of the island (closest to the range wall) and that extra seat at the end gives us 4 total. But I'll look at it again. I would love to have straight seating and added island cabinetry.

I love symmetry too! I think that is what is mostly bugging me that it's off balance. Plus I'm not sure how it will look from the other side (the great room). My DH, aka the electrician, thinks it would be too hard to run the electrical if we have cabinets on both ends, but nothing is too hard!

I wish I could swap the fridge and the range, in fact, I wish I could move the sink. But I don't have enough clearance near the sink to have a range there too. Hmmm...

Thanks so much for all your advice, I have a lot to think about!
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Angie - yes, it looks like two islands in the current layout. Hi Kathie - I would change this to a standard L+island instead of a U + 2 islands (as it is now). So, here are my suggestions: 1. Leave the fridge and range where they are on left wall 2. Get rid of the right wall of cabinetry entirely. 3. Put the ovens all the way to the right on the bottom wall. 4. Move DW between sink and oven. Or, if you are a big baker, you can leave the DW where it is and instead lower the counter between sink and ovens to be 30" high, which I am told is good for rolling out dough. 5. Put island with prep sink, long side facing the range/fridge wall. Have the bottom-most cabinet in the island be a 24" side set of drawers that faces downward - that will help your dish storage situation. Put a 15" overhang for seating on the top and right sides of that island, or 12" deep cabinets there if you don't want seating. I would probably put the prep sink at the top of the island to allow access to a sink to folks from the DR and create a secondary prep zone at the top part of the island. 6. You also have room for 10" deep tall pantry cabinets along the right wall if you so wish. A shallow pantry holds a lot and is much better than a deeper one since you are easily able to see what you have and nothing gets lost in the back of it. Cindyandmocha's finished kitchen has a great one. 7. This is a strictly aesthetic choice, but I feel your kitchen is very top-heavy with upper cabinetry. Only you can say if you need all that storage. What I would consider is putting in a triple window that will echo the windows (doors?) in the dining room. I would also take the window down to the counter as it's a beautiful look and really brings the outdoors in. Here is a link with some great pics. You have a big family, so the above layout is good in that it gives you four potential prep zones (either side of the prep sink, plus either side of the cleanup sink) for any kitchen helpers. It also leaves you 48" aisles on both sides of the island which is the NKBA recommended minimum for more than one cook, as well as seating for any one who would like to hang out.
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Last first (because that's how my mind works): Yes, practigal, I can change layout (not the location); however, it will not give me any payback in the community development, and, frankly, I don't want to spend the dinero to completely redo the kitchen. My retirement income and time will be better spent on FUN (and wine - see below)! chibimimi - 1 thought; 2 great minds! Here's the photo I pulled off GW last night that had me re-thinking whether I wanted a drawer stack or a cabinet: You have no idea how much I troll this site. I'm more of a lurker these last 6.5 years, getting vicarious thrills from all of you! I also thought I might install a wine cooler there, but all the ones I like that seemed to fit got low ratings due to noise, so I scotched that idea. Then, someone on GW linked to an article about James Beard (maybe about his culinary school?) with this picture: I thought, what? Wait, wouldn't this work behind a cabinet door? So I got out of bed, emptied one of the pullout drawers in the existing pantry and loaded it with wine: I could get at least 3 (maybe 4) pullouts in the cabinet (15 or 20 bottles!) and a drawer above to hold accessories. I would need to locate cradles for the bottles or drive myself crazy listening to glass rolling around every time I opened or closed the drawer. Trash or wine? What a choice. robo - I'm keeping the end wall so I can use 2 different cabinets. The existing kitchen cabinetry definitely looks "kitcheny" vis a vis my more formal LR/DR furniture. While I don't mind it showing through to the LR/DR, I want to coordinate the new DR-facing cabinetry with the DR furniture (natural cherry). The new cherry cabinets will abut the existing white ones. The existing finished wall is 5 inches and there's a 2.5-inch filler between the DW and the pantry. I could probably gain 2 inches just by rotating the studs 90 degrees. The remaining wall needs to incorporate light switches. Can that work if the studs are rotated? For electrical code I might have to replace the existing outlet that's on the 10-inch rise to the right of the sink. Mockett opportunity? I'll explore with the designer and framer to see if I could gain enough to get an 18-inch cabinet. Great idea! Olychik - Thank you! All that I've said in this current post is based on making the counter one level! By the way, if anyone knows where I could get pulls like those pictured in the following photo, that's what I'd like in gold (brass?) on the new DR cabinets, which will coordinate with some of the LR furniture. I'm envisioning slab front cabs, no external drawer, but one at the top inside. Oh, boy! When I'm in the midst of construction hiccups and delays, I'll have to remember how much fun it's been planning this stuff. FWIW, here's the overall layout of the place:
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Another idea... First, though, please realize that with a small space compromises are often needed. However, I think this layout has few, the primary being the sink is not under a window -- it's b/w the two windows. This does have the advantage that the Prep Zone workspace is in front of the window, many people prefer this setup. The other, minor, compromise is that the refrigerator does not have landing space directly next to it. It does, however, have landing space within the NKBA guidelines of no more than 48" away (the perimeter counters are 43" away). To make it even easier to get food to/from the Refrigerator (and Pantry cabs), I suggest a small rolling cart (there's an example at the end of this post). What does the layout have? Separation of the primary work zones...Prep, Cooking, Cleanup Follows the Kitchen workflow of Refrigerator --> Sink --> Prep Workspace --> Range Plenty of prep workspace A secondary Prep Zone using the Cleanup Zone Real vent hood over the range 18" pullout pantry 24" tall cabinet with...tray storage on top, additional food/dish storage below the trays, an alcove for a countertop MW at counter-height, and more additional food/dish storage below the alcove (in drawers). The upper cabinet above the sink and b/w the two windows is only 9" deep so there's more "face room" while working at the sink. If you don't need the storage, you could eliminate it altogether. Pots & pans in the corner susan Note that I extended the wall on the right side to hide most of the refrigerator from the other rooms "below". This isn't necessary from a functional standpoint, but it is for aesthetic reasons if you're someone who doesn't like to see things sticking out. The wall, however, can be no deeper than the refrigerator box b/c the doors must stick out past all adjacent items. (The Refrigerator is surrounded by finished end panels, so it wouldn't be stainless steel sticking out.) . [Select/click on an image to a larger version] Layout: . Zone Map: . . Rolling Cart example (found on Home Depot site) https://www.homedepot.com/p/StyleWell-Glenville-White-Single-Kitchen-Cart-SK17787Cr2-BBW/304083100
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marcolo
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I agree that the skinny wall looks odd, at least in the renderings. Symmetry was also the first thing I thought of.

You know, your layout is a fairly classic L w/ island, in the proper order of fridge, sink, prep space and range. However, as someone planning a similar but more modest layout, I'm wondering: Where do dishes and glasses go? While you're chopping garlic, is someone reaching in front of your eyes for a water glass? If you prep on the island, is someone reaching into a dish drawer under you?

This is one issue I've never figured out with these layouts. I unload the dishwasher and....what?
roemama
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
OK, that's two votes for too skinny of a wall, I'm going to work on changing the balance of the pass thru - I'll layout having two pantry cabinets with the pass thru in the middle and see how that feels.

Marcolo,
I think its a challenge for every kitchen - where does your dishware and glassware go? I plan on keeping the glasses closest to the fridge in the upper cabinet. Grab a glass and get some OJ type of operation. And the dishwasher is somewhat close to it as well for off loading glasses. As far as the dishes, I plan to keep them in the lower drawers in the island. I'm pretty sure most of my prep will be closer to the range which will be plenty of room for someone to grab a dish while I'm prepping. And close enough to the range for times when I want to grab a dish to plate a seared entree or whatnot.

I'm also the only cook/baker, and I do all the prep, which makes it easier for me. So there isn't many others in the kitchen with me other than tasting and keeping me company aside from an occasional dinner party when friends help out. One day that might change when I have kids that love to cook and bake.

Good luck with your planning! What stage are you at?
roemama
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I made some changes to the pass thru, how does this look?

Elevation #1:
From kitchen design

Elevation #2:
From kitchen design

Plan (smudged):
From kitchen design

Kitchen Layout Critique and Help with Pass Thru

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worldmom

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Kitchen Layout Critique and Help with Pass Thru

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