This has to do with some personal preference issues, I think. I couldn't operate with a table in the middle of the kitchen...Chair backs in the way, making the table somewhat useless as workspace (too low anyway), and I don't want to dine in the middle of meal prep mess either. On the other hand, I LOVE the idea of an L shape, with island, walk-in pantry and a table in a peaceful and beautiful space...A chance to sit and enjoy the gorgeous view of the woods. Would you be able to put the dish storage on the leg of the L that is nearest the table? That would be recommended, I think. Ours is set up that way, with the actual dining space in a separet room through some glass pocket doors, but the table is only about 7 ft from the dish cupboards.

I think you're right about where to put the table. I once had my table in the kitchen with a great U-shaped kitchen that functioned well. Raised my five children in that house, baked a great deal and also canned. It worked well, but the table doubled as a work area, and the chairs in the way do bug me. I always ended up moving them out of the way. I guess if I was entirely thrilled with the idea, there wouldn't be all these questions in my mind.

I'm going to go with my original idea that you like, even though the steps to the table are longer. It seems that with just my husband and I at home now that I tend to set the food out in a convenient spot and we fill our plates before sitting down. (It's also been a necessity that way...we bought a tiny single wide to live in while we build. HATE having a total of 5 feet of counter space). At least we are on our land, but I'm anxious to have a house again. I'm trying to tone the square footage down and still get storage and a big kitchen.

I'm open to ANY ideas and pictures. Arranging this stuff is not as easy as it seems.

Sandy

LOL...I sure understand your situation! We lived in a 900 sq ft, 35 yr old single wide that was already on our land while we built. Only, we had 10 of us living in it, since we have 8 kids who were all still living at home full-time then. It was 'cozy' to say the least! But it was a great advantage to be living where we were DIY building. I can definitely relate to the aggravations of only 5 ft of counter space. You have my sympathies. :-)

Here is my floor plan. I have an extra wall of stuff you won't have, but that's because the kitchen was built to regularly accommodate up to 10 people in it at a time. If you ignore the baking ctr wall, and shrink the stove run a bit to fit in a fridge, you'd have a functional L with island. This is just to show how ours is situated to have the dishes near the eating areas.

I appreciate your pictures, etc. so much! Your kitchen is very beautiful.

Though we are just down to the two of us at home now, I still cook from scratch. I also like to can and freeze food and believe in self sufficiency. My favorite activity is baking, though I have to be careful about doing too much of that without kids visiting to help eat it. I hate cooking in here so much that we eat out a lot, and between that and the design stress, I'm getting pudgy.

I like the room you have for your freezer and extra refrigerator. I'm trying to incorporate space in the utility/laundry area for mine. Mine are fairly new and our house buyer didn't need them, so we brought them with us. They are sitting in our barn in a climate controlled room waiting for our house.

I've never had an island before and have always wanted one. I'd like this primarily as a baking island so I can roll up my sleeves and roll dough or knead bread. I hadn't considered putting anything in this island, such as a prep sink, but now I'm wondering if that might be nice for cutting up fresh veggies, or if it would get in the way. I see you have one in your island. Would you do it again?

I am also thinking of having two ranges rather than a cooktop and wall ovens. It's WAY cheaper and I would gain extra burners to boot. The second stove wouldn't get used all the time, but would certainly be handy at times. I had the top of the line GE gas convection range in my last house and it was the best stove I ever used. It out surpassed custom stuff I've had before. However, my mind is open regarding ranges.

I am also going to try to get my dishes as close to the table as I can, as you did.

I guess I should quit whining about our 900 square foot trailer considering the degree of coziness you had. I keep telling myself it's not forever. I can deal with small spaces for awhile, but when it comes to kitchen function....Grrrr! It sure beats renting somewhere though!

Sandy

We are even more alike, as I am a from-scratch cook and baker, too... Even moreso since I got my grain mill for making my own flour. The funnier similarity is that my initial plan was to get 2 GE Profile ranges to outfit the kitchen! (but electric, because I'd never cooked on gas before having this house.) It is too long a story to tell how my plan evolved from 2 ranges to a monstrous rangetop and dbl wall ovens, but the simple answer is that we have so many people doing things at once, it's better for us to have the cooking and baking task areas separated. So anyway, my point is that I understand about the price difference and the reasoning. It will be a little on the odd side, as people aren't used to seeing 2 ranges, but if it doesn't bother you, and you won't have to consider resale, what's most important is what works best for you.

I LOVE my prep sink! I just told another forum member this morning that if I had to do a kitchen again, and wanted to simplify or economize from what I have now, the prep sink is something I would definitely not give up, even when thinking of just working by myself. I love having a place to work on veggies that isn't over any dirty dishes, and even though I was hesitant to give up a clear island workspace for big baking projects, I find the sink too much of an asset, and I really still have enough room on the island. Placed like it is on the corner, it leaves most of the island free and clear, and I can use it from either the side or the end of the island equally well... So it serves me at the stove while I'm prepping and cooking (washing veggies, and filling & draining pots), and also serves me (or whomever else) is doing baking projects along the side. It's nice to have a water source for rinsing gooey hands or adding water to my bread mixer to start a big batch of dough.

If I may intrude about your original question: Since your children are grown and gone, and this is your forever house, I think some table seating near the kitchen would be a very good idea. As people get older they tend to like counter seating less. Since it's usually just the two of you, it wouldn't have to be huge. Just enough to sit down without having to go across the whole room. Maybe even just a cafe table, or maybe a table height surface as part of the island.

I didn't have room for a permanent table area on my small island because that's also the walkway from the back door, and, conceivably, large things might be wheeled through that way. The back of the island was the best option for me, and I wanted a place my mother could sit and help, and which would be useful as we age, so I had a table attached to the back of the island with brackets. They're very strong and firm, and can take a lot of weight, but they also have catches so that the whole thing can fold flat under the 6" stone overhang.

BTW, I totally get the two range thing. Even so, do look at some of the larger ranges as well. There are some 48" ones that have a big and a small oven that seem very useful without taking over the whole kitchen. Though the two might be less expensive. BTW, one other reason to have the wall ovens instead is because bending to check, baste and stir, and lifting things out of range ovens gets harder as people age as well.

As Plllog already mentioned, I do prefer the wall oven for easier see and reach, and can only imagine I'll appreciate that more as the years go by. I also LOVE having drawers right under the cooktop for pots and pans. I never had a really good place for them before...In the sorry drawer under the range oven and in a lazy susan corner cab. Just not the same as the luxury of having them in 36" wide drawers right where I need them. Much better than having my legs up against the hot oven, too.

I was imagining, Plllog, that the table area she mentioned with the windows wouldn't be so far from the kitchen as to be too far from the kitchen for more casual, couple seating? Just not in the center... But maybe my imagination and the plan aren't the same! :)

Wow...The room, the climate, and the energy to grow your own grain! That's impressive...and blessed!

Hmmm...true. 20 steps could be 20 footfalls = approx. 13 feet, or 20 paces = approx. 50 feet.

Good point on the pot drawers!

What wonderful feedback I'm getting here. Wall ovens might be nice if I can find a brand that is as trouble free as my range was. (Some of the "high end" brands have horrible repair issues). I'm all ears here for what to look at. It would be nice not to have to bend so much.

I like the fact that you can put pots and pans below the cooktop. Again, is there a brand that doesn't have tons of complaints and is easy to clean. I don't care about status names. Just want something that works well and does what I want.

I'll see if my husband can help me post at least a partial layout of what a house designer did that would include the kitchen and laundry area. I think the basic concept is O.K. It has some wasted space and not enough walk in closets. I think it can be vastly improved on.

We are working with a house plan that currently is a rectangle consisting of a 34 foot dimension by aprox. 60 ft. dimension. The longest part will be oriented towards the woods. These dimensions may seem a bit odd to some, but we are copying the old Florida Cracker homesteads with full wraparound 8 ft. porch. Traditionally, they are a bit narrower than 34 feet, more like 28 to 30, but it's hard to fit a modern house into that dimension. If I stay 34 deep or below, I can have the traditional roofline that I love with the cracker design. Wider than that we get into modern roof design.

The kitchen including counters in the current plan runs the full 34 feet, and includes both the kitchen and seating area. It's a long haul and is basically two rooms without a wall, at least in my mind's eye. My goodness, that's almost like cooking in one end of this mobile home and dragging it to the other end to sit and eat.

The stress is that we are pressured to get plans to the blueprint stage in order to ensure we keep our original homestead exemption. We are already 7 months into the 24 months we are allowed from selling our house and using it on another. Keeping it is paramount to our property taxes.

We are truly blessed, as we found 10 acres that we love and I can't imagine ever moving from here. The landscape is very similar to Upstate N.Y. (where I am from originally), but without the gray skies 8 months of the year, and the snow. We're about 8 miles from town which is convenient, yet we are on a dirt road surrounded by farms. Yesterday we were having coffee and I looked out to see two escaped baby cows nibbling in our yard. One was licking the grill. Then they checked out the barn and went down to the pond. I let the neighbor know so they could fix their fence, but it was a fun sight.

Sandy

Wow, 34 feet IS long! :-) Our kitchen plus dining room only totals 22 ft, so you might have more of a challenge. Can't wait to see the plans.

Your property sounds wonderful! We had escaped cows a couple times in our last yard. The dogs were quite surprised! But I loved seeing them. No cows on this property, but deer and bunnies.

Rhome410,I have a question about your kitchen floor plan. I'm not very good at these things at all! It looks like you may have a kitchen table at the end of the kitchen area before getting into your dining room. Is your kitchen eat in with a "detatched" but near the kitchen formal dining room, or am I misreading it?

The other thing I can't figure out for myself is if the counters, cabinets, refrigerator, or what not extend a bit down into the space on one side of a cornered eating area, does it look strange? The other side is open to the great room.

Sandy

I'm not clear about your 2nd question. I'd really have to see what you meant on the plan.

We do have a small table in our kitchen. I first designed a really long island, but I just couldn't see my husband coming in to spend time with me while sitting at an island where there was work going on. I could see him sitting at a little table, and the other pluses would be that some of the kids could use it for schoolwork or a game while others were baking or cooking without being in the way or their stuff getting sticky or wet. It's been great for late-night talks with my almost grown daughters.

It's not nearly large enough for us to use for family meals, so I didn't really plan it there for eating, but when we do weekday breakfasts or quick lunches in shifts, it gets used for that. So I guess I could've said, and much shorter, "Yes, it's a possible eat-in kitchen with the detached dining room right off of it."

Another thing that made it a better choice than the long island is the ability to get from the dishes across to the 2nd fridge and the breakfast counter without maneuvering clear around a huge island.

Here are more photos to show how the plan looks in person...

Toward the dining room:

From table toward stove and baking side:

a LO would help. depending on the LO maybe part of that kitchen length could be shorten to be a storage room or pantry.

how about a 5 or 6 burner cook top and double wall ovens? sounds like you have room for it all.

it does look as if rhome has a dining room off to the right of her kitchen.

yrs and yrs ago I looked out my kitchen sliding door to see the neighbors calf a few ft away. there probably wasn't 8' from our door to the drop off to the creek below us. when the neighbors later offered us some fresh cut steaks, I couldn't accept them.

Thanks everyone, so much! I've been brainstorming a lot today, and I've come up with a few scenarios for the kitchen. I think some things will be a tradeoff, as it's most likely impossible to hit perfection. Right now I'm working on punching a large pantry or two in the space that I feel is available behind the kitchen area. I remember my grandmother's turn of the century house with a huge walk in pantry and very little cabinets, and realize how much better that worked for her than today's thinking with long strung out rows of cabinets that never hold enough storage. Grandma turned out amazing meals.

One idea I am working on, (though I absolutely love the island idea), is having the table a little more central to the kitchen while preserving enough view out windows to keep from feeling boxed in. I can plan to have enough room around the table to work without banging into chairs since this is a clean slate with new construction. My husband likes keeping me company at a kitchen table and in no way would ever sit at island seating. He is not a fan of islands. Living in a dinky mobile home with the table in my face has been nice in one respect...we're actually together and meals are homier.

I have a theory about the kitchen changes that are appearing these days. People are putting stools and chairs around their islands. I feel it is a craving to getting back to the feeling that we all get when sitting at someone's kitchen table that's actually in their kitchen. My husband has made it clear he would never sit at such an arrangement, so I guess we won't be doing that! Nothing wrong with it, just doesn't work for my man.

In my last kitchen we were sort of isolated from one another with the table down at the end of the kitchen 20 feet away, and me making dinner. I was resentful sometimes. Despite the fact we were technically together, we really were not. It's amazing what a few feet can do emotionally. It was a beautiful kitchen, and helped sell our house, but it was not emotionally satisfying.
I'm trying to see if a traditional farm type layout (involves the table as part of the kitchen) can somehow mesh with modern ideals. I think it can if the counters and appliance are set up correctly and efficiently. One of my grown daughters remarked that she was getting away from having an island in the kitchen and wanted to get back to the days when they were growing up, with the table as our hub. She suggested a nice island on casters that could be a decorative part of the kitchen when wheeled out of the way. I do feel I need that extra "farm table, aka island" for extra workspace sometimes, but perhaps not every day.

Rhome 410, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your husband sitting nearby at a table, and the late night talks with your children. There's just something about a comfortable table in the kitchen.

Your pictures have helped me a great deal. When I get my plan sketched out once and for all, I'd like you to see it. I'm putting my table back into my kitchen, but not as a tight squeeze. It may even be a little off set. I do know I'm not trucking 20 or more feet from my stove and dish cupboard to set a table and clean up again.

This forum has been great. It helps work the confusion out of one's brain!

I had a chuckle about the steak offer from the neighbor. My husband joked that we had veal right out our doorsteps, and I told him I won't ever eat a baby cow. He keeps saying I could have made him veal parmeson. What a character he is! We've thought about raising beef for ourselves, but I think I would get attatched and wouldn't be able to kill it. It'd be easier to get one from a local farmer all set to go in the freezer.

Sandy

Can't wait to see your plans!

Sandy,

The central farm table idea (much loved in theory here under the moniker "Waltons table") can work well given your space, especially if you're not particularly tall. Tables are great for rolling dough, and I have lots of fond memories of sitting at my mother's table making cookies, arranging vegetable and pickle trays, grating cheese, cleaning peas and beans, etc. Very congenial. As long as you have enough standing work surface against your walls, and don't want to be standing looking out at the view, you don't need the island.

I think your daughter is onto something with the rolling island!

LOL about the beef cows. We had a family friend who was growing sheep for wool. He bought a Scottish Highland cow ... because she was cute? I'm not sure why, but he adored her. Then he decided she needed company and bought two more. He tried to breed them with frozen shipped sperm, but it didn't take. They needed to be bred for their health so he hired an Angus bull who was better at the whole process. :) Three bull calves. Should have been veal when they were weaned. They were mutts. He "never quite got around to it", and then they weren't veal any more. And he never got around to it. Smart to know yourself and not put yourself through having three useless (from a farming perspective) bulls running around.