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laurielou177

tile-in sinks and to wall mount faucet or not

laurielou177
13 years ago

My husband checked out sinks yesterday. Looking for double bowl tile-in. Not 100% we are doing tile, but good chance. Place he went said silagranite not available for tile-in and also said the double bowl cast-irons (they sell Kohler) don't come in a wall mount. He suggested brookfild tile-in by Kohler.It comes in 4 or 5 hole. Salesman also said wall mount faucet not necessary, which I know it's not, but was suggested here that would reduce cleaning around faucet openings w/tile around. And, we may decide not worth the expense to change to wall mount. It does look like it would reduce cleaning though and certainly looks cool. So, any suggestions for double bowl tile-in sinks that would allow wall mount, or standard sink mount? This is for 1918 foursquare. Also, any thoughts on wall mount vs not? I have to admit, even though I love the look of separate hot and cold for sink faucet, and am using an old pedestal sink for bathroom w/separate hot and cold, I'm not even sure if it's going to be practical enough to have that in kitchen where I often bump our single faucet handle w/back of hand after front has been covered w/raw chicken. Love all things period, but am wondering if practicality may need to win out on this one. Maybe there's something kind of "period-inspired" but totally not period that would have just the one handle?

Comments (19)

  • natschultz
    13 years ago

    I don't know about tile-in sinks without faucet holes, but I know you CAN get period looking porcelain handled single-lever faucets. We put in a porcelain single-lever shower handle when the original (4 separate!) tub / shower controls could no longer be fixed. I'm kind of thinking a farmhouse sink with a high backsplash might be the easiest way to go with the sink - you can tile right up to and around the edges with your trim tile (contrasting the hex, right?) and mount the faucet on the back.

  • dianalo
    13 years ago

    Our new faucet is a wall mount and I love it. It does not get gunk around the base like our old one did, and I have to admit, I just plain love the look of it.
    It has levers, so I can bump with the back of my hand if my hand is dirty. 2 bumps vs 1 is not a huge problem, lol. I think sometimes we are so concerned with saving a step or motion that we can over-think things. Go with your gut on this one.

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  • artemis78
    13 years ago

    For the sink, another option if you want a wall-mount faucet is to do an undermount install (any of the Kohler undermount cast iron sinks would work for that) and ring the sink with quarter round trim or whatever other trim you like. In that case, you just cover the faucet holes with whatever you're using to mount the tile. Needs a good installer to get it even, but that's true of a tile counter in general. This is also a really common period install, so that's an added bonus!

    We have always had a wall-mount faucet in our house and kept it in the remodel since we liked it. Biggest downside is just that the plumbing is in the wall, so if anything goes wrong it's a bigger fix than plumbing that's in the sink cabinet. (We also had to retrofit our plumbing with accessible shut-off valves by recessing a box into the wall for them to meet current code.) Upside is that there's no plumbing in the sink cabinet, so there's room for other stuff there---we have a double trash pullout there. The two handles have never bothered me, though (I actually had never thought about it one way or the other until coming to GW where it would be discussed at length!) The biggest thing for us is having the hot water set to not go over a certain temp---you can do that at the water heater (which is what we do) or locally at the faucet. That means I can turn on just the hot when I want warm water and not worry about getting scalded. That way, I turn on the hot tap for warm water (dishes, hands) and cold for cold water (drinking, cooking), and very rarely mix the two. The other thing we changed is to switch from a faucet with controls on the front to one with the controls on the top---this makes it much easier to turn the faucet with one hand. HTH!

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    I have tile, and a deck mounted faucet on a Kohler tile-in sink. There's no trouble cleaning around it. The problem with cleaning a faucet on tile is if the faucet is mounted directly on the tile, rather than on the sink deck.

    There are a lot of deckless sinks that can be put into a tile surface. You just need a wide enough flange to accept the quarter round, and a skilled enough installer to get the underlayment and waterproofing right.

    There are a lot of period inspired, single lever faucets out there, in all price ranges, if you're willing to accept deck mounted.

  • laurielou177
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks for all the options. Love the wall mount, just don't know if we'll go w/it if adds lots to cost. Still waiting to finish plan for cabinets so we can get an estimate on that and know where we are starting from w/$.Sounds like some good options though w/out wall mount and even w/single lever, though some good easy turn on options noted even w/hot and cold separate. It sounds like the most important thing is to have someone w/experience putting in small tile around the sink. Hoping that's possible here. We are in upstate NY and there are plenty of older homes, where people would restore to period, so hoping that won't be too tough.Haven't gotten that far yet, but all your different options helps to know what's possible. And yes, hoping to have 2 in hex on counter and a contrasting trim around sink and outer edge of counter. Maybe not black. Maybe blue, green or grey depending on what floor color we end up going with. Right now, cabinets will be yellow.

  • laurielou177
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Someone asked about us using 2 inch hex, instead of 1. I like the 1 inch, but am just thinking 2 inch reduces grout lines just that much more. I'm still kind of confused about all the advantages and disadvantes of different types of tile, grouts and installation methods. Seem to be several views. Think I'll partly need to find someone who's found a method that works for their installation. Need someone who's done some period looking stuff.

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    Since you're going for an historic look, if you can find an old time, experienced tile setter, you can have your hex tiles sloped to give you drainboards that flow into the sink. You might even be able to get them set in wet mortar rather than quickset and grout. It takes more reinforcement, but gives you an indestructible surface. I do have a mortar bed, but quickset to that, but I also have large format tiles that don't lend themselves to the whole slope thing.

    By all of that I mean, don't just find someone who has done "period looking" stuff, but go for the real deal who knows how to do it the way they used to.

  • davidro1
    13 years ago

    Chicago Faucets. Period, all brass, low lead, high quality, wall mounts.

  • marcolo
    13 years ago

    If you want the look of two levers or handles, but greater convenience, just install a TapMaster. When you need water, you use your toes, not your hands.

  • natschultz
    13 years ago

    I agree with 2" hex on counter - that was the norm - 1" was for floors. I also prefer color to b&w, but finding colored 2" hex today will be really hard, so maybe white hex with colored trim. Make sure it is has a glaze around the sink though. I like pale blue or green with yellow cabs.

    I HIGHLY recommend the book "Bungalow Kitchens". Reading it was like reading the diary of my house, and it has fantastic pictures of old original cabinets and counters.

    I think JohnLiu gave the link to pics from his vintage kitchen tour on you older reticulated tile post - find that thread and look at the pics - it has a few awesome colored 2" hex counter pics.

    As for the tile, I mentioned this on your tile post, and plllog mentioned it here: You will NEED to have it set in real "mud", NOT Thinset! Being Upstate you'll probably be more likey to find someone who can do it. Try contacting local Historical Societies or house museums to find out who does their repair work. Alternatively, try to find a marble flooring installer - marble floors are supposed to be set on a mud bed as well (but an old school tile guy would be best).

    As for using an undermount sink and tiling over it, I'm not sure if this will work. The problem is what will the sink actually be attached to? Only the 3/4" plywood? Will that work? You have to find out from the sink manufacturers. Another problem will be the size of the undermount rim - because it will be below the plywood, your QR tile will have to go onto the actual sink rim to hide the plywood edge, and if the rim is too narrow it won't be structurally sound.

  • marcolo
    13 years ago

    I think Pratt & Lambert has colored hex, unless it's Mission Tile West.

  • John Liu
    13 years ago

    Why is mud better than thinset? I'm trying to get educated. When I tiled my old kitchen counters (and floor, and shower) I used thinset - no-one told me different. Is that a specific requirement for hex tile?

  • natschultz
    13 years ago

    In a previous post OP had asked about reticulated tile. That is cut after firing so it can be butt up with minimal grout lines. The benefit is the look - like antique tile, but the problem is expansion / contraction. With modern grout lines the grout / Thinset can expand and contract without cracking the tiles. But if there is no space between, if the tiles don't expand and the cement backerboard does the tile can crack. Because a real "mud" base is like 1" thick the tiles actually move with the mud. Honestly I'm guessing it can expand up and down more vs. side to side, because it is so thick. Of course you cannot see this with the human eye, but porcelain expands/ contracts less than cement.

    Around a sink or shower this is very important because the cement / mortar will expand when it gets wet.

    The old tiles were mudded directly in - when we had to replace some tiles on the shower wall to replace the leaking tub/ shower controls the entire 1" thick chunk of mud came out with it. Some repro tile places sell "Mud Cap" tiles - they are deep cap trim tiles, so if your tile starts before the ceiling you actually see the 1" depth difference between the plaster wall above and curving trim above the field tile - inside the curve is hollow and filled with mud.

  • artemis78
    13 years ago

    The Kohler undermount sinks are a good option if you go that route; they mount to the cabinet box rather than to the counter, and they have double rims so that you have room to tile (or, with stone, to have a bit of an overhang) while the rim of the sink itself is inset a bit.

    I would really start by finding someone who specializes in this work---that was the most valuable thing for us when we were considering tile counters. Once we found a tilesetter who was very familiar with period tilework, many of these questions were easily resolved because he knew what worked and what didn't. (Of course, once we found out his price, we gave up all together---but I do think with this work, you get what you pay for!) I think you're out east, too, so you may do better on pricing than on the West Coast.

  • artemis78
    13 years ago

    (Oh, and I second the rec for Bungalow Kitchens; the author is from our city so many of the houses featured in the book are actually here as well---it's always fun when one comes up for sale! That was a big plus in our search because, though new tile counters are uncommon these days, they were the norm in the 20s and 30s when a lot of homes here were built, so there are many older ones still out there with tilesetters in town who specialize in working with them.)

  • davidro1
    13 years ago

    laurielou177 you can safely ignore information that you read from time to time posted here and there which is not confirmed by others. Tilesetters do frequent the internet: in the bathrooms forum and in tilesetters' forums of which there are several. you might read something different over there, which two or three people will confirm.

    johnliu, thinset is good and not worse than mud; mud is good and not better than thinset.

  • Circus Peanut
    13 years ago

    For really excellent tile advice, do post on the John Bridge Tile Forum, where numerous helpful tile experts contribute regularly. That will be your most reputable source for accurate countertop tiling information. You can search his forum for threads on 'countertops' for lots of good insights. They are very friendly to newcomers and homeowners.

    Two things I'd recommend based on my own tiling experience: use the newer epoxy grout because it's almost bombproof vis-a-vis stains; and use rectified glazed hex tile which is perfectly flat, for the thinnest possible groutlines.

    I'm a huge fan of wall-mounted faucets from the looks alone, but live in Maine with a sink on an outside wall and was (possibly unjustifiedly?) fearful of freezing pipes. If you can find a style that works for your washing habits, I'd go for it. Davidro is right - Chicago faucets makes some gorgeous, heavy-duty wall-mount faucetry.

    Maybe paddle handles would make it easier to manipulate one-handedly with dripping chickeny fingers?

    It's a lovely project: have fun and make sure to keep us fellow period-bungalow-obsessers updated!

    Tile forum link below:

    Here is a link that might be useful: John Bridge: Expert Tile Advice for Newbies

  • marcolo
    13 years ago

    Re: Plumbing in the wall. I think it was arlosmom who built out a sort of pony wall in front of the real exterior wall, so that the plumbing actually ran through that, in interior space and safe from freezing. The added benefit was a cute little shelf on top, in front of the window.

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    Thinset is a perfectly good product. Many tiles are appropriate with thinset. The thing about installing tiles in wet mortar is authenticity. They look different. They feel different. They act different in an earthquake, though that's not a big concern here. Mudded in is permanent. Done expertly, especially with the rectified hexes, it's the smoothest you'll get. You have to wait weeks to let it cure. IMHO, worth it for this kind of counter.

    Nothing wrong with thinset, however. Just different.

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