My guess is the sellers are very aware of your interest, and are playing that fact to their advantage..They have already "negotiated" a 5k increase from you..What you need to do is put out your "final" final offer,lol...and then walk away..You have spent a significant amount of time on this home already

I feel your pain. I have a hard time not being "in love" with houses that I want. But I think the realtor know you're very interested and is totally, totally yanking your chain.

The best thing to do, and I know this sounds insanely difficult, is to tell their realtor "forget it" and walk away.

We did that with a house for about 3 weeks, then came back with the same offer and all of a sudden they were willing to deal.

They're going to nickel and dime you to death through the whole negotiation unless you re-establish who's boss. Because right now it's not you...

They know that similar houses that have come on the market are listed lower and that they haven't sold in 8 weeks with a weekly open house.

They also know that you haven't purchased one of those similar houses instead.

The supply/demand thing can work on a very macro level.

You can't find any other house you like, and you've been looking--the supply is low.

They have a buyer who appears to really, really want *this* house--the demand is high.

Low supply + high demand = higher price.

Don't want the higher price? Change the supply (be willing to consider other houses) or the demand (go buy another house).

I'm a little lost - do they really have other interested buyers?
Or is that just a ploy?

Is your financing is solid?

I'd consider telling your realtor to resubmit your bid at your original (minus the 5,000 you increased to) bid with instructions to emphasize to their realtor (or put in writing to make sure the owners see it) that you have rock solid financing (so many deals are falling through these days!) and no house to sell - I think those things have got to mean a lot today. It sounds like you think their realtor is ok despite the whole "other buyer" bit, its the couple that's holding out - well, hopefully their realtor really is dosing them with reality but you never know.
Also instruct your realtor to tell them that you have plenty of time (true or untrue) to continue to look for houses and will do so, you won't buy a house over appraisal in a dropping market period, but if they change their mind please call in case you haven't found anything.
Once you've assured yourself that the owners have all the facts (always my biggest issue when going through 2 other people!)
Then tell yourself you aren't going to think about it and continue to look. I don't think buying a house that won't appraise for the price - especially when house prices continue to drop is a good idea.

too late for marys1000 advice, the OP has shown their cards..The better advice is to make a final offer, and run away if they try and "persuade" you to up the offer..Do not even respond to the counter

Don't forget, you ARE in a good position, although I know
it's tough living with Grandma and Grandpa. I gather that your delayed closing HAS closed? May 25? (Otherwise you're not in that good position yet.)

OTOH, the sellers of the house you think is OK, but not *wonderful*, are not in a good position. You are their only bidder and their new home will be ready to be paid for in full very soon. Unless your market is unique, RE is still dropping and foreclosures are rising.

Wipe the increased offer from your mind if you do bid again on "OK House". I know what my Brit friend woud advise: Make a lower offer and tell them that this is the best offer you will make; future offers will be less, and less, and less. (Has evidently worked for him.)

I know you want this to be 'over', but a bad deal won't accomplish that goal. Keep looking. Send the kids outside to play.

qdog - communication is always key-most people don't get the message the first few times and 2) they aren't losing anything by reinforcing the message that this is their offer - who knows?

Webe...
Hang in there. The sellers think they're going to get you no matter what. You've got to get them out of that thinking and the only way to do it is to ignore it completely and go find another house.

What about expired listings? Can your agent go through the mls to find houses that would fit your needs, but didn't sell and were taken off the market? Chances are the sellers still want to sell but don't want to relist in a bad market.

How about your agent putting a flier out to fellow agents stating what you're looking for and how ready you are to buy? Many times other agents know of properties about to go on the market. If there's a ready and willing buyer, that can be an incentive for a different agent to get their sellers off the fence to list.

What about community bulletin boards, church newsletters, etc.? Place an ad. Put up a flier.

In other words, be proactive in finding a house that's not currently listed. Oh and make sure your agent sends the flier to the listing agent of the house to show that you're moving on.

Remember, this is like dating. If you're doing all the pursuing, the other will sit back. Time for you to play hard to get.

If this were truly the only perfect house for you, I'd probably argue the opposite, if you can afford it and you can pay a higher down payment so the appraisal is not such an issue, and you planned on living there for the next 30 years, and...and...and... Then I'd say, pay the price and move forward. But I sense it's just your general stress level of the uncertainty that's getting to you. Try not to let it.

I think you should go back to the other post you have where Linda gave you the advice of having the appraisal done in 24 hours after an offer and if it doesn't appraise you are free to pull out. That's the only way I'd say ok to the $15 more and if it doesn't appraise they are now screwed and know it.

I feel for you, I really do. I was out there for 7 months and was ready to just stay where I was. I'd walked so many houses there were days I couldn't do anything else because my back hurt from walking & driving around. It's the pits. I know you like this house but the owners don't seem ready to give it up for what ever reason. They are now playing games. Maybe you should write a new lower offer.

I also like the advice about looking at expired listings. That's a really good idea.

Good luck.

how is it living with the in laws? Can you tolerate it for a few months?

I agree completely. Reject the counter. Wait 1-3 weeks. Go back with a LOWER price. Tell your agent that every subsequent offer will be less.

I took a similar approach in buying the house we're living in now. Seller rejected my offer but countered. I rejected his counter. Standoff for a few weeks. I went back with a lower price. Another rejection from the seller. I said, "Fine, sell it to somebody else." Seller's agent phones about 2 months later & says his client will accept my offer. I said, "Well, my initial excitement about the house has worn off now & I'm not sure I'm still interested. I'll think about it." I did nothing for 10 days. Then, I went back $22K lower than first offer. Seller was MAD, MAD, MAD! I said, "It's OK, I understand. Sell it to somebody else." Two days later, seller accepted our lower offer. The entire process chewed up almost four months. Our seller had already purchased, closed, & moved into a new house. They really needed to sell. I just had to wait them out. To be successful with this approach you have to be willing to walk away from the house & go find something else you like as much or better.

Hang in there. And get control of the situation! They are jerking you around.

Good luck.

/tricia

To be successful with this approach you have to be willing to walk away from the house & go find something else you like as much or better.
Very, very true, leave the emotions at the door, or pay more if you must have it, just accept that you are willing to pay not to risk losing it.
Don't get angry at the seller it is their house, they can ask what ever they want. Don't take it personal.

Thanks to all for letting me vent it out here.

Without getting into too much detail - we had not followed up on this house since our last offer which was when I posted back in April? I knew it was for sale but totally skipped over the house on my internet/mls searches. I had pretty much washed my hands of it.

With regard to our fiscal position: Yes, we did finally close on our own home 5/25 so I've got $$ in the bank. We will be putting 20% down on our next home and still having some $$ remaining after paying closing costs. We have high credit scores and a low car payment at 0% financing. We are living at in-laws and it has not been too bad. We are also saving money while living there.

They're OP was 319,900 - that is when we made our offer which was 45K under asking (I researched comps/the town info/mortage on the home then). About 5 weeks ago they dropped 10K and we did nothing - they called us to say they'd take $305 and we said Thanks, but no thanks. Anyway, Sat. my husband is looking in paper and sees the home down another 10K - we decide to revisit the house since we aren't finding anything we would like to buy. We have the story I laid out above except to say that we were firm when they called back the last time stating they wanted to be at X $ range and we told them our offer would remain the same and was on the table for 1 hour. I told my husband we would not pursue this house again but if THEY contacted us we were going down in our offer. He agreed. Thier realtor I think was a little shocked that we were sticking with our offer, not willing to offer more or split the difference of 15K AND put a deadline on the offer.

I agree that they do know we like the house but they lost a buyer, with excellent credit, money to put down and no house to sell. It is what it is.

As far as thier realtor, the same woman was at the open houses - she seems nice enough and not pushy. She and another woman are listed as the realtors and I think the negotiating was with her not the woman at the open houses. Although, she is the one who originally told us the house was overpriced, they knew it, and in April at the open house there was supposedly some woman there on her 3rd showing of the home and this time there were 2 other ghost offers that somehow disappeared.

My guess is that now that the house is under 300K that it will sell- houses in that range seem to. However, today it is still listed on the MLS as active. Only time will tell.

If there is a neighborhood you are particularly interested in, or a set of houses that appeal to you, you might consider sending letters to the owners expressing interest and seeing if anyone is looking to sell in the near future. We did that (sent 90, yes 90! letters) and got about half a dozen responses, one of which seems on its way to working out. If it does, that $40 in stamps will have been well worth it

I'd walk away. Sounds like you're dealing with some pretty dumb sellers or those who don't need to sell. I wouldn't waste my time on a house that only partially meets my needs.

Have you thought about looking in outlying areas for houses or do you have to be in a specific town? DH and I live 80 miles round-trip from my job, but it's well worth it because we have twice the house that we'd have in town where I work. Just a thought...

Something I didn't see in your post is whether you will make your offer contingent on a home inspection (and, of course it's appraisal value).

I'm sort of wondering WHY it hasn't sold -- if it may be something other than price.

triciae is my hero. I'd never play a game of chicken with you. My wife and I have toyed with the idea of raising our selling price or lowering our offer after a counter, but never have. We usually just walk away.

Whether you are a buyer or seller, you and your spouse should privately decide your walk away point. NEVER give that info to your REA or the oppositions. And always stick to it.

Webe, good luck with your house hunting. I know the feeling of frustration with not being able to find what you want. It drove us to building a custom home.

triciae - you are my hero! Great story. I relayed it to my husband and he couldn't beleive it. He also kept bringing it up over the weekend - so it has sat in his mind.

In any event, we are looking in a few towns so we are not limited to one. We have three small children with the first starting Kindergarten in the fall so I've researched CT school systems - as well as taxes. We both commute to Hartford so that does come into play as does my husband and I both have family in north/central CT that we vistit/see often. We sold our home in a great small town however, I've been involved since January on a School project committee in that town (too lengthy to go into here) but due to town demographics education and the conditions of current school buildings are not a priority to a large portion of the town so we have eliminated it from our search.

We are re-assessing the towns we are looking at to buy a home since so far we can't seem to find anything we want to buy.

Off I go to check the MLS...........

OT: Schools. Don't get too hung up on 'best rated' vs. 'good enough'. My experience has been that kids do best if their parents expect it and help them at home.

When our DS was a baby we moved into the best rated HS district in Chicagoland. All the feeder schools were fine, yet there was constant jockeying by parents comparing every minor detail of each K-8 system. In hindsight, I realize it was just plain stupid. These were all excellent systems, but it was the nature of highly competitive parents to try to micro-manage. (Despite paying high taxes to maintain these excellent schools, some parents supported three additional *non-parochial* private schools in the area!)

Which kids did best? IMO it was those whose parents were involved with THEM, not overly involved tweaking the systems, and not 'absent' -- involved in their own work or play.

webe,

I earned my paycheck working for several banks as a commercial/construction work-out officer in several states including in New England. Was also responsible for selling REO inventory. That job sharpens ones negotiating skills. I can go a long time without blinking! LOL :)

As important as it is to hold steady during negotiation...it's also important to, "Know when to hold'em & know when to 'fold'em".

For every successful negotiation there is an action followed by a reaction (usually over reaction) & finally synthesis.

Knowing when to put your cards on the table and say, "Deal's done. I accept." is just as (or more) important than knowing when to hold tight.

Good luck finding a home you like. I live in Mystic. If I can help you can email me thru GW. If you are convinced that this is the house for you...don't give up. Retreat, regroup, & strike again.

/tricia

tricia ~

I washed my hands of the house a week ago when we pulled the offer. I posted here to vent and also to show the different things going on in the market here in CT. Me, I'm a total 'fence sitter' waiting for the right home to come up in one of my selected towns. School systems do matter as I just left a town where the School system is failing. I do get frustrated living with the in-laws but only b/c it's hard to be a family in your own home and then having to live with another family....... a bit cramped at times. BUT I am fortunate to have a place to stay. Now my husband on the other hand - he makes spur of the moment decisions and bad ones at that - but that is another story. He also has no patience. That being said.....

We have a realtor up in the Enfield area who we've used a couple times now - to buy and to sell. I do appreciate your input on this situation and offer to communicate. I've read your posts and responses on the GW and feel like I know you. Also, I LOVE mystic - before being married I was engaged to a guy who had a boat docked on the Mystic River down there. And I love Angie's Pizza!

I also wanted to put my situation out there. We have excellent credit, money to buy a home with 20% down and no home to sell. We made a good/great offer on a home and had checked with the town regarding mortgage currently on the home as well as history. We had a contractor come with us to see the house - We know they have a contract on another house that they already obtained a 3 month extension on back at the beginning of May and the house has been on the market a few months - we did our research. We made a good offer the home and the sellers still wanted more. It's 10 days past our negotiations and the house is still on the market - not my problem. I'm sure they have thier reasons as to why they didn't sell. That is thier right as a seller. If they call me - maybe we'll talk but I have no plans to pursue this home.

Meanwhile, another home in the neighborhood sold (it wasn't what we were looking for) and a new one just came on the market - we may go see. We like the neighborhood so it may be that we end up in that area anyway.

So with a positive attitude the search goes onward. I'm sure there is a house out there waiting for us.

Wendy

Hi Webe,

I'm in CT too, and friends down the street are in a similar situation. They sold their house and have found nothing they like. There was one possibility but their experience is the same. It seems as though the majority of sellers are used to "moving up" every 2 years or so and expect buyers to act the same as when the market was hot. They list high, reject a few low offers, then wind up reducing price to where those "low" offers were to begin with. After that, they receive even lower offers and find that they can't sell their house for what they owe since they haven't built any equity, so they tell the buyers that they need "such-and-such" a price, and well... You know what happens after that. If they had just accepted one of their earliest offers they'd be in good shape, but by playing games they just lost a sale and potentially much cash. And I don't think it's just a CT thing, either.

Regarding schools, in many parts of the country school systems are regional, so they don't have experience with each individual town funding its own school system. Here in CT we can live in a town with excellent schools, while a neighboring town has a failing system. The towns with great schools attract the wealthier residents who can afford higher taxes. That brings its own set of social issues as you can imagine...

Uncledave,

You bring up a good point with the CT schools (NE for that matter). Coming from the west, I was accustomed to school districts being administered at the county level. Here's there's virtually no county government. Poor NH has been suffering through school funding issues for the past dozen years it seems with their "donor" towns & such.

And you're right about the hopscotch social affect town school districts create throughout our state. Personally, and probably because I was indoctrinated in my young adult years in the west, I don't understand the mentality of "I live in Mystic, therefore, I don't want to support schools in Hartford." Just makes no sense, to me. We're all a part of CT. But, because of my attitude...I know better than to ever run for public office! I'd be tarred/feathered & run out of town on a broomstick! :)

Wendy,

Ya know, I've always believed most things work out the best & for a reason. Quite possibly, the house you offered on falls into that category. Good luck with your search. Hey, how's your gas prices? I'm a bit peeved. All around...Groton, Pawcatuck, Ledyard, etc. it's $4.359 but get into Mystic & the price jumps to $4.479. I like to support local but I'm getting just about ready to abandon my local gas station. I 'think' they are trying to stick it to the tourists & have forgotten that some of us actually LIVE in Mystic. :(

/tricia

tricia

Gas prices up here in the Hartford are appalling as well. We paid 4.19 at our usual local place but on the way there saw several stations on the main road (closer to airport) for 4.32 same day. We have relatives in MA and being temporarily in Enfield we are closer to the MA line and go over for Gas - last week we paid 3.89 a gallon.
You gotta love the gas tax in CT!

Webe, how are the roads in CT? Our gas tax in Minnesota has been the same since 1989 until recently when the legislature voted for a $.10/gal increase spread over the next few months/years? Our wonderful guv vetoed it, but the legislature over rode it.

We have Bridges That Fall Down and others in terrible condition (lots of bridge closings now), and the roads are awful. But then we have our "no new taxes" Governor (who might end up being the VP candidate with McCain) who instituted "fees" instead of taxes, and things still aren't getting done. Minnesota used to be one of the most progressive, innovative states in the country and we are slowly sliding down the toilet. But, you get what you pay for, and you don't get what you don't pay for!

Our gas is around $3.88/gallon at this moment.

I've been to Minnesota during the days of Jesse Ventura! I worked for an insurnace company based out of MN with offices in CT. In any event, I know you all have a lot of 'highways' but I was impressed by the lights on the entrance ramps so that there is no back ups/bottlenecks. We dont' have that in CT.
Our highways always appear to always have something going on but I think the roads are fair. We did away with toll booths loonnnggg ago but now with the Casinos and MGM Grand here in CT there is a ton more traffic on the roads and discussion in legislation to put some of the tolls back in on the highways that come into CT on the State lines of NY, MA and RI.

CT has the second highest prices for gas/gas tax - California is #1.

Webe, what area are you looking in? Someone posted at another place, they are in Winchester, have a house on 2 acres for $294k. If you are interested in looking at it online I can get your the MLS number.

Forget the realtors - look at FSBO's. I am selling my 7 room 3 bedroom ranch in Enfield for only 179900 because we are relocating. Email me at budrusty@aol.com for more info. I can even hook you up with a lender