Would it be cheaper to put alarms on the doors? When I lived (and built) in Fl, we had the option of either a pool fence or the door alarms. Actually, we had the door alarms (maybe they are code?) and only disabled them after we got the pool fence.
Jo

Not sure how a purchaser would know the fence is not code, unless they have owned a pool previously..I had a pool at the home i sold last spring, and purchased a home that didn't have a pool,but had a fence with wire mesh..We knew were going to install a pool, and were relieved the fence was in already.Much to our chagrin, the fence was NOT code...I think making the fence code would be your responsibility, as your pool exists

If it was reflected in the price and you disclosed that the fence wasn't to code, then reject installing a new fence. Personally I wouldn't know if a fence was to code until the inspection, and my price would have been negotiated without knowing the fence wasn't to code. After the inspection if it came up that the fence wasn't to code, I'd either ask the sellers to bring it up to code (it is a safety issue) or I'd walk.

Tell them to do it themselves.

I cannot tell that that there is anything wrong with the fence by looking at the photo.

I side with the buyer, they probably didn't know either.

Did you disclose it? if not, then buyer is correct.

You should offer a partial credit just to negotiate as best as possible.

To the FL poster - I think this fence is needed to keep people that are NOT in the home from drowning (e.g. kid down the street). So an alarm to the back doors won't affect that situation.

Depending where you live that fence is not to code and if I were buying it I'd be concerned about having to fix it so it was up to code.
I'd probably ask it either be made to code or reduce the price to reflect the work I was going to have to do.
Many places these days are getting tough on pool owners. Not only do you need a fence around the pool but a gate that a child can not open on their own.

The fence looks very nice. I don't understand what makes the existing fence 'unsafe' and not up to code.

Pools and even trampolines are considered "attractive nuisances" meaning that they pose a significant danger to all small children in the neighborhood who by their age do not understand the concept of trespassing and thereby could be killed or injured because they are or maybe naturally attracted to it. So whether or not your locality demands a fence or not you could still be held liable in the event a neighbors child drown in your pool unbeknownst to you.

"Did you disclose it? if not, then buyer is correct."

You do not have to disclose things that are obvious.

Ask your AHJ EXACTLY what the code is for pool fencing.
You should be able to get it in writing for only a nominal fee.

Is this the only fence that could keep neighborhood children out of your pool or is there another fence around your property? If this is the only fence then I would definitely fix it as it is a safety concern.

How is it it obvious that the fence is not up to code? How would a buyer know this?

Also, what would it take to bring it up to code? Is there some way you can work with the buyer to share the cost if you can't do this by closing?

What are the laws in your municipality? If the fence is not to code, then their lender may decline financing.

That fence looks like it would be easy for the average 6 or 7 YO to climb over.

Are you going to let this deal die because of $2800? What is the market like in your area?

I would meet them halfway and give them a credit of $1400 and tell them to fix it. If they leave it to you to fix, you could be held liable for any problems with the repairs. Let them be on the hook, not you.

Interesting responses.

I guess in my state, where A LOT of houses have pools, I assumed pool fences are generally common knowledge. Yes, I have seen fences that would be unclear to me if they were up to code (and would need to check/ask before making an offer). But my fence seems terribly obvious, even for the lay person. It is only 3 or 4 feet high, with a convienient little ledge to step on for the smaller kids. The bars are wide enough for my 2 yo to fit through. And there is a 2.5 foot space under one of the sections (where no brick ledge was built -- for whatever reason) that an adult could actually crawl under.

Incidentally, my buyer/investor just bought a home for himself down the street from me in November that has a pool. So I really think he already knew this.

Of course, it --should-- be properly fenced, but that wasn't the question. It's 'who should pay for it?' The person who's gonna live there? Or the person who no longer lives there?

I guess my question would be, why wasn't the fence brought up to code when *you* bought the house? Or has the code changed and you were grandfathered into the old one?

I think this might be one of those things where the seller might want to give some money and have the buyer do it after the sale, for liability reasons. What if the seller has it done and then a year or two down the road something goes wrong and the buyer claims the seller is liable for the faulty fence?

It would never occur to me whether it was or was not up to code. We recently considered a house that had a pool in the NE so most people do not have pools. I have no idea if the fence was to code or not. I was planning to put a removable child safe one around the pool anyway. It would never have occured to me to ask the sellers to pay for this

I do know that in my area a fence around a pool must be 6 feet as does anyone who has a pool or ever considered putting one in. I think he is playing you

My hunch is there are better looking fence options and he wants to get a freebie on one

With your last post, I'd have to say that he knew he could use it to bargain with. To me, $2800 sounds cheap to bring it to code, especially if it involves taking the old brick out.

I would find out the code as was mentioned. I would then consider getting an estimate for yourself, although I don't know if you'd have to disclose the estimate(s)

Is this the only thing getting in the way of the sale? If it is, I'd offer 1/2 of the cost and let them repair it themselves.

The question really isnt what would every body do. The question is, Are you willing to loose the buyer over $2800? Counter with a $1400 credit at closing and see if they'll go for that. In my state, this would have been picked up when a C of O search or Municipal search was done prior to closing. It would have to be corrected before the house could close. It may be different in your state.

A slightly tongue in cheek comment: You say you have already included this fence not being up to code in the price. This is what you get for pricing your house properly.

I don't suppose it would sit well to counter with a higher price on the house and a 2800.00 credit?
Can you give them some or all the 2800.00 credit and neogtiate on something else to make back a little?
If deciding between the credit and doing the fence - well by the time you find a contractor, the contractor screws it up and overcharges you - well I'd go with the credit which I don't think will begin to cover demolishing the fence, hauling it away, new fence and reseeding.

Just slap on some 7ft chain link fence from Lowes so that it is up to code. Probably less than $500.

interesting idea jrldh and in theory should conform to code, if it is placed around the outdide of the old fence. However, we are not trying for scare tactics or to piss off the buyer. You could say that you will credit the cost of a basic chain fence

I didn't mean to piss of the buyer. I think that if the fence isn't up to code and this is what the buyer is concerned about, a chain link fence would be a very easy way to fix this defect. I mean, removing the masonry and replacing it with some wrought iron fence that is up to code would be quite expensive and the expense is probably the main reason why this thread exists.

This assumes that the price reflect the condition of the current fence.

I thought house features have to conform to the code in effect at the time they were built, not the current code. Why is this any different? Not to say it wouldn't be a good idea to upgrade it, but at the buyer's expense, not the seller's.

You thought your price reflected the fixing of the fence....seems to me your buyer doesn't agree for whatever reason.

Buyers often miss details on homes they are purchasing till someone else brings up the subject like a spouse or girlfriend.

Your buyer just bought a house down the street with a pool. He might have gotten educated during that process about pools and NOW is making sure his butt is covered with this investment.

If the laws governing pools changed while you lived in the house and you didn't update and were not grandfathered into the clause you might have a problem on your hands if he can prove you knew you weren't grandfathered and did nothing about it, even if he walks away from the deal he could make life difficult for you.

Looking at the fence my suggestion would be if you have to fix it not to remove the pillars. Instead remove the wrought iron and replace it with stock that is closer together and taller and then make another run of fence around the pool just above that using the pillars as anchors for that.
IMHO removing the pillars is gonna cost more than the buyer is asking for and it could damage the pool itself I'd work with what I had there as much as possible.

suburbanmd -- if this were the case then homes built in the 50's wouldn't require smoke detectors, homes built in 1890 wouldn't require electricity , homes built in 1800 wouldn't require running water. If I'm selling a home with faulty electrical system it would indeed have to be brought up to code in order to sell it, at my own expense most likely or I wouldn't be able to sell it!! I guess I'm looking at a pool fence in the same way, it's a safety issue, it's not up to current code, the seller should fix it.

The heck with the issue of selling it. I think a bigger issue is that the current occupant has a two year old who can get through the fence right now, and right now the pool is open to intrusion from any neighborhood children who might find it fun to swim. This is a tragic accident waiting to happen, and I'm really pretty surprised that the owner lived in such a home without correcting a horrible safety issue like that, especially since she has children that could suffer the consequences of her inaction. This isn't an issue that has a thing to do with buying or selling. THis is a basic occupant safety and liability issue. If the home had a wiring issue that made it attactive for unsupervised children to easily contact an exposed wire and electrocute themselves, there wouldn't be any issue about whether or not it was up to code. It'd be an immediately rectified safety issue that wasn't even open to question. A pool with that fence in a home with small children and in a neighborhood with small children is a huge safety hazard, and it's also a giant lawsuit waiting to happen.

I think you are overreacting Live Wire

I doubt the OP lets her 2 year old around the pool or even out of teh house unsupervised

As for neighbor children, again children young enough to fall in are probably not running around the neighborhood alone. I do not allow my 10 year old out alone and I live in a nice neighborhood. Plus while it is hard to tell, it looks like there is another fence around the yard. Where I live that would be enough by code

If you have a pool in the yard you take precautions that you would not otherwise take. As for faulty wiring, that is between the buyer and seller to negotiate who pays for what. The only person in my state who could not transfer a house with faulty wiring would be a builder. Once it has a C of O, it is between the buyer and seller to negotiate. If something that is required to be disclosed is not disclosed that is a different story but if you have bad wiring you need to disclose it, not fix it. In this case the problem was pretty obvious

What I don't understand is why you even have to have a fence and why this fence not being up to code is your problem. I know a few people in AZ that has pools and brand new ones and don't have a separate pool fence, but just the fence around the property.

Also if this fence was built at the time the pool was installed then it is most likely grandfathered in if it was to code at that time. Why should the seller be responsible for something being up to the latest code?

If the seller was responsible for anything that was built at a time when the code was different to always brings things up to code when selling we would be tearing down a lot of walls etc. to sell. Codes changes often and even a house that is 1 years old most likely has something that isn't meeting the current code, but it met the code when it was built.

BTW I do understand the safety issues of having a pool, but I also think a parent has to be responsible for their children and watch them too, which I'm sure the OP is doing.

I would have your realtor tell them that this was factored into the price when you accepted a lower offer. They guy is most likely just seeing what he can get and somehow seems to know that you really need to sell. Being that you went a lot lower on your price already. If he then wants to pull out you can come back with an offer to take care of it.

Hmmm, lost my post. But yeah, like the last two said, our curious 2 yo is ALWAYS supervised. I can't even leave him alone in the house where it's supposedly safe! And there are three locks (and ALWAYS locked) between him and the pool. The yard is also well-fenced from the outside world. My DH & I grew up around unfenced pools, so this isn't as big a deal to us as many. You just always watch your kids, end of story. And they learn to swim very early. We once tried to get a fence, but couldn't afford it (hence selling the house, among other things). That's a long story.

Anyway, counter has been made and it looks like everything is still on track.

Julie - what did you counter? I'd be interested in learning from your experiences here.

I have to chime in here. Having experienced two home sales in San Diego county, a fence built to code was required by our homeowners insurance. They inspected the house prior to writing coverage. I don't remember the specifics, but basically the fence needed to be tall enough to keep out small children and it had to have a self-closing gate. The code did not require a fence if the property had enough natural barriers (like a hillside or ravine that would make it difficult to access the pool area from outside the property line).

He only had two contigencies, fix/credit the roof and fix/credit the pool fence. It is common practice for the burden of a pool fence to fall on the buyer around here. So, I gave him the credit for the roof and rejected the pool fence. Contract fell through today. He's an investor and had his contractor look at the property the other day (while all this was going on). They said it will take more money than what they planned, to do what they want to do to the house. So I'm back on the market. Yay me.

Check with your local building code dept to prevent future problems.

"if this were the case then homes built in the 50's wouldn't require smoke detectors, homes built in 1890 wouldn't require electricity , homes built in 1800 wouldn't require running water. If I'm selling a home with faulty electrical system it would indeed have to be brought up to code in order to sell it, at my own expense most likely or I wouldn't be able to sell it!!"

The general rule for any property is that it only is required to comply with the building code in affect at the date of construction.
Specific exceptions to this have been made over the years in plumbing and electrical, but rarely in structural.
The plumbing requirements have occurred over the years since this is a publicly shared item, and defective equipment could lead to contamination of the supply.
That said, if your house has lead water lines you are probably not required to replace them.
Lead DWV lines have not been allowed for many years, but they still work fine.
Knob & tube electric wiring is still in the NEC, though there are restrictions on extending to or modifying old installations (and the parts have not been made in many years).
GFCI receptacles to serve the kitchen counter are such a safety upgrade that many jurisdictions have required them to be added, but this is still not the norm.
The NEC is on a 3 year cycle. Has anyone come back and inspected?
Have you been told to bring your house up to the most recent code?
60C insulation (PVC) in NM cable (and AC also) is no longer allowed.
It was used for at least 50 years.
Ready to tear out your wiring?

"What I don't understand is why you even have to have a fence and why this fence not being up to code is your problem. I know a few people in AZ that has pools and brand new ones and don't have a separate pool fence, but just the fence around the property."

Codes regarding fence pools vary from city to city here in AZ, though most of the major cities in the east valley, with the exception of Gilbert iirc, do require them. However, pools are definitely considered to be an attractive nuisance and, yes, children have drowned after trespassing and getting into the pools in neighbors' yards.

I guess it wasn't clear to me how the buyer should have known about the fence. If it was stated on the writeup that the pool fence is not up to code, then I could understand it. However, I would not expect the average buyer to know that. I think that just lowering the price due to the fence without obviously stating the issue doesn't cut it. Especially since folks will look at the lower price thinking "score!" and then on realizing the issue ask for compensation.

On the other hand, I can see not wanting to state negative things on the listing, but if the price was adjusted adequately then it should be fine. Of course, buyers will always over-estimate the cost of repairs, isn't that a rule? I don't know the house prices in your area, but $2800 seems like not much when it will lose you the sale. Of course it depends on what the market is like also.

All that said, I'm sorry to hear that the contract fell through. Best of luck with the next buyer!

You do realize this post is about a year old. I believe the OP sold her house eventually.

Yes, Julie did sell the house, also bought one.

Back at the time, Julie was not able to do repairs or credit from what I remember as her DH was out of work or something to that effect.

Thankfully it all worked out in the end.

Julie, if you do come back, how is the new house doing?