AAAAAND GC just sent me a pic of the island in. it is NOT what I asked for.

I asked for an overhang of 10" on the ends, with a 5" straight portion before it arches out to a total of 18". It does arch out to 18, but the ends only overhang 2.5", which means I'll probably only be able to seat 3 instead of 4 due to the lack of overhang on the ends.

It doesn't look bad. ButI need to see it IRL to see what the seating situation will now be. And I'm probably not going to do anything about it since I don't want to have to pick out another slab and I don't want to deal anymore. Gah I can't wait for this to be over. I'm so frustrated with this and a million other things with this renovation I could cry.

Oh, I'm so sorry! ACK! (Not to add heartbreak, but what's with that GINORMOUS chip out of the side of the overhang?!)

No, it's not normal to ask the GC to help install when you are paying them separately. They should know better - much much better.

Yes, contractors are very possessive of their tools and subs, and I'm sure that plays a small role here, but clearly the fault/incompetence is on the side of the installers.

I'd make sure to be putting in not just one but LOTS of complaint calls to Texiera - they don't want these buffoons representing them again, do they??

Take a deep breath and repeat to yourself: all will be well. All will be well.

Worst case scenario, you live with the crooked sink until the inspector comes, then have them replace it. :-(

**On the bright side, your stone is GAWgeous!**

Oh, no. I really feel for you, especially after your post yesterday. You wanted to be there for install and couldn't because of your sick cat.

I can relate with the feeling like you want to cry. The soapstone is beautiful though. And the kitchen is really coming along.

What is that arc cut out in the bottom right of the island?
If they have to come back on Friday I would mention this and see what they say. Do you have any more of the slab left? You should really get what you wanted and payed for.Sounds like they were not great with the install and your poor GC! Hope his hair is ok! I have no idea if what they asked of the GC is normal. I know my granite guys brought tools and cut the top of my cab a bit to get my sink in.

Good luck, take a deep breath....it will be beautiful when it's all done.

It's supposed to be a 5" straight line - not an arc. there's one on each side. basically the island was supposed to overhang 10" at the ends, then go straight for 4-5", then begin to arch out. but it doesn't go straight, it is notched notched only a coupld of inches, and the overhang is only 2.5", not 10". GC says IRL it looks nice, it's hard to see much from these pics.

Sigh. I tried Teixeira earlier but my salesman won't be in until 10. I'll try him in a few minutes.

So, now you can't get a stool on that short end because it's only 2.5 inches overhang? That would make me very mad too. If they are not going to replace it I would ask for some sort of compensation.

Wow, I love your island! The cutout edges are beautiful, even if that is not what you want. I am going to save that picture for my next kitchen if you don't mind. Everything looks great and I can't wait to see it all finished.

I used Bucks County Soapstone for my kitchen. The sink base had to be cut out before the installers arrival. Check your contract to see if that was part of the install. I know BCS did not want liability for any damage done to the cabinet, that is why is was not part of the install price.

Speaking of fire...I was cutting out my sink base when the installers arrived and my jigsaw caught on fire. The 2 installers luckily had a jigsaw in the truck and finished the cutout for me. That's crazy that it happened to someone else too. At least my hair survived intact.

I just got off the phone with my salesguy.

I told him I'm giving him a heads up that I'm pissed. I'm not going to be able to see it for myself for who knows how long (basically I'm just waiting for my cat to deteriorate to the point I have to put her down. I don't want to get pet sitters for her anymore at this point.) But my husband will be going this weekend. He said if it's unacceptable I can pick out a new slab and they'll replace it no charge. That the installer must not have understood what I was trying to explain. Not shocking since his english was just so-so. But I mean, they do this ALL THE TIME. I said 10" on the ends. With a 4-5" straight portion before the arch. For a total of 18" at the deepest point. I've seen this on other islands - it's not like it hasn't been done before.

I need a drink.

Geez, can't anyone just do the job they're being paid to do? I'd be upset too. Only you know if you can live with it. But that soapstone is GORGEOUS!

Deep breath, and as others said, put the call into Texeira. Make certain they know you're not happy about how it was cut, and the fact that they punted on the sink install. See what they offer, and decide if you can live with it or not.

In the process, make certain your GC know you appreciate his watchful eye and willingness to pitch in to make it work.

Good luck---can't wait to see the sink installed!

It's so beautiful! For what it's worth I think the swooped edge looks great. To me it's a very cool touch (I'm not sure I would like it as much with wings off each side).

Did you pay for the wings? Are they on the drawings and included in the square footage? I didn't think 10" unsupported was as common as say 6". I know it's considered "okay" but it's pretty rare and I know my installer prefers to err on the side of caution.

I can't speak technically about the sink installation. I can certainly relate to grabbing the next sink off the stack (did you get one that was a custom size?) and not realizing until I got to where I was going that the fabrication had been screwed up. As for cutting the hole I've had it go both ways (each side has done it and each side has both insisted/refused to do it) so I feel like it's more of a grey area. But again, I'm with a company so I'm always working with people we have contracted with.

That said, I don't have any doubt Texiera will work with you to make sure your happy. I've seen them work with people here on the forum before AND they've worked with my company before when we were in a bind because of things we'd screwed up.

Unless your contract states otherwise, in most cases the cabinet is prepped for an apron sink by the carpenter, not the countertop people. Sink install usually means attaching it to the counter, not the cabinet.

Sorry to hear about your cat.

I did ask him about that and he did say that it was to be cut for them - so GC will have to get over it. ;-)

Oh, I'm so sorry, first your glazing, then your cat (so sorry to hear about your cat!) and now this with the soapstone, I'd be crying and drinking by now too!

As far as your island, I too think that it is beautiful soapstone and think that the smaller "swooped" cutouts are cool and may be less of a problem with someone banging their hips, heads (if young kids), etc. on it and they are unique.

As to the sink cut out, our cabinet guy had to cut out the sink base, DSU, our soapstone company, was very specific about that and our cabinet guy knew from the time we picked an apron front sink that he would need to do that. Our soapstone is being installed tomorrow and our cabinet guy will be here either today or tomorrow to cut out the other opening for the drain for the sink. Sorry your GC caught his hair on fire, but I'm glad he was there to help out!

I'm surprised they didn't template your kitchen...or did they? Our company sent someone out last week to lay these sheets of stuff on the cabinets and they did a whole mock up of our kitchen, some companies use lasers to mock it up, but I've not heard of a company not templating before install. Maybe I missed that, and they did do it, but the fabricator got it slightly wrong?

At least it's beautiful stone, and sort of what you wanted (though I completely understand your not being happy) and luckily it sounds like it's a decent company who will make it right either way. If you don't replace it, I would ask for some sort of compensation though, because it's NOT what you ordered!

Good luck and hopefully all of this frustration you've been having means that you'll have smooth sailing for the rest of the time you own the house!

Kat :)

They did template it - though for the island, they didn't do the pieces of shim or whatever it is they use to create the shape. I told him what I wanted, he wrote it on a piece of graph paper and then did a (rough) sketch of what the island would look like. The sketch was crude and so it wasn't easy to tell the scale (impossible to tell the overhang since it was a "top view"), difficult to tell how much the ends notched before arching.) So I reiterated the distances again, he nodded and said no problem. I was under the impression this was no biggie for him. (BTW, I'm using installers employed by Teixeira, not my own installers. I believe they fabricate there - they were doing that, I thought, when I went to pick my slab.)

At first I was freaked b/c circuspeanut thought the notch was a big chip and positano didn't know what it even was - I called my contractor again and he assured me that it looked nice (and I actually trust him - he's very picky and has definite opinions on things, and would tell me immediately if it looked like crap. I trust his opinion.) It is hard to tell exactly from the pic, but as of now I'm not so upset about the looks of it, but that it took a seat away. This is a very small house (VERY small) but we have lots of guests since it's a summer place, and I kind of thought I needed that seat.

I do love the stone, though. :-) They aren't going to oil it until they come back to do the sink. If my GC weren't so busy and focused on my staircase (which he's building custom and I guess is pretty tricky at certain points, from a carpentry perspective) I'd ask him to oil it for me now. LOL

Well it is up to you about being shorter than you wanted or the contract says if you want it redone. But as far as the cab being cut to fit perfectly our contractor did and there is no way I would have wanted stone people cutting my cabs.

wellll...

Teixeira saw this thread and had the owner of the company call me from Brazil. So I thought I should clarify:

They are willing to fix the island at no charge (as I said before) if I choose to do so. Like I said, DH is going this weekend to look at at it, and I'll be going whenever I can if he leaves it up to me. Like I said before, I'm not so upset with the looks, but about losing the seat. but once I see it IRL I'll decide if gaining the seat is worth the hassle of picking a new slab and having this one removed/new slab installed. If I choose to live with it it will be by choice.

and as I said before, they are fixing the sink and installing it on Friday, so we can meet our OC deadline for insurance. And we were expected to have the cutout done on the sink base (the original question of this post) so GC has been told it was his responsibility and sorry his hair got fried in the meantime LOL.

The owner was very apologetic and wanted me to know that they'd do whatever necessary to make it right me happy. That sometimes things go wrong but the important thing is how they handle it - and they are taking responsibility and making things right. So that's all I can really ask for.

I know how stressful this must be to try to coordinate things from a distance, especially when you have your kitty to worry about. I just wanted to send you some positive kitchen vibes and say I hope things go more smoothly from here on out.

As others have said, it is customary for the GC or cabinet maker to prepare the cabinets for the stone people, and that includes doing the cut-out for an apron sink. Without drawings with careful measurements, the problem with the shape of your overhang seems almost inevitable. It should definitely be the responsibility of the fabricator to ensure he has a perfect understanding of what you want, and the only way to do that with something like your overhang is with measured drawings. I'm glad to hear they will make sure you're happy with it, one way or the other.

In my experience, GCs do tend to be particularly critical about the work of people they don't hire. In fact, I found it rather comical how my GC would complain to me about the cabinet maker and then the cabinet maker would complain to me about the GC. It was beyond silly and in the end, all the work was fine. I think there is just a general CYA attitude.

I will say that BOTH the GC and the cabinet maker raved about the work that Florida Joshua did with my soapstone. Both said they had never seen better craftsmanship on a counter top. M. Teixeira has a similarly great reputation for doing good work and for doing just what you said--making sure things are right in the end. Tough to ask for much more than that. That said, I hope you love it when you see it and don't need to go through the hassle of a change.

FWIW, I thought the notches were an intentional design...I love them and wish I had thought to do so...

That said, the stone IS beautiful....and as they are willing to make things right, I'm sure in the end you will be thrilled with the outcome...this too shall pass.

Hang in there...

I'd have them redo that island. I just wouldn't want to give up the seating.

With the cabinets, its my understanding that they always have the cabinet guy cut out for the apron sink, however - it should have been square.

I'm glad that Teixeira is on top of it. I really like a company that will put in the effort to notice a thread like this and make sure that its made right.

Oh boy. I am so sorry you are dealing with this long distance while you are saying goodbye to your kitty.

As others have said, your stone is beautiful. The fuctionality would be a prime consideration for me though, so think about how you will use the kitchen and how you hoped to be able to entertain. Even if it means picking another slab that may be worth it.

We have seating for only three at our island (planned that way), but I have found that when we entertain no one wants to leave the kitchen! Even though we usually have at least 6 for dinner, and so normally eat in the dining room, we could have planned for a fourth seat at the island. I do have a fourth stool we can pull out for pre dinner nibbles, drinks etc, and we're lucky that the layout affords us the space to have people mingle comfortablely. That extra seat is one thing I might have done differently, though.

It will work out and when you're sitting at that island in your gorgeous new kitchen, this will be but a distant memory...

Hang in there,
Eliz

You're right Elizpiz. I'll need to think hard about the seating. I admit i'm getting to the point where I just want it DONE - this whole house reno has been going on since October and I'm pretty much over it. ;-) Hence my willingness to just accept. But you're right.

It's going to be beautiful - but at this moment we're getting hit with a TON of things at once - painter needs paint colors NOW (don't have them, can't until I can get there and throw up samples), just found out the upper roof (we have a mansard, the "straight" part is cedar shake, but the "top" is very old shingle) has decided to fail and jeopardize all the new floors/walls inside by big time leaking. So I'm also trying to pick shingle color, order lighting, deal with finalizing landscape/new fence plans, get defective corner sink for 1/2 bath replaced, pick a doorbell, doorknobs, mudroom tile, backsplash, I could go ON AND ON. lolol. It just really would have been nice if no other surprises popped up right now.

And my poor kitty on top of it all.

K: A couple of days ago I posted some questions about supporting a curved island. Your island looks almost like what I'm going to do (curving out to 18 inches in the middle.) I, too, am hoping to be able to seat four. What did you use for supports? Also what are the dimensions of your island? And forgive me for the multiple questions, but what soapstone is that you've used? I think it's all beautiful by the way. I'm glad the company is working with you. I think we'll be using them as well, though we'll use the NC branch.

Ack!

It's so frustrating when things don't go as planned. Have to say first though- that though not as functional- I really do like the look of the cutout/arc, and if you do get the island redone, I'd consider having the arc included instead of the 5" straight piece.

But, you may not want to hear this - we also had a problem with communication with the builder of our custom made vanity- again language played a role- but we have to take some responsibility cuz he built it off rough plans drawn up in his store- you'd think we would have known better. I'm kicking myself, when the granite was being templated, DH drew up very specific drawings/instructions (he's an engineer), and things turned out as planned. Now, we know, if we get this carpenter to build anything else for us, to have EVERYTHING down in clear language in writing.

Well I talked with and showed pics to some dear friends of ours whose opinions I trust - and they say to leave it as is. that the arc would not be enough with the 10" overhang at the corners, and we can't go deeper. I do like the notches now - it just took me a bit b/c it wasn't what I had originally planned.

Rachelen you're right - Lesson learned (I'm learning lots from this whole reno LOL) - I wrote them down, thought that was enough, thought it was pretty straight forward. Guess not. ;-) But I think in the end it's going to be for the best.

ncamy, we have corbels that we ordered with the cabinetry. Due to this change, we will have 2 sort of at the centers, so the middle stool would have them on either side, so to speak. They are I think 10", but since the overhang is 18" and they are between seats, I'm hoping they're not in the way. The island is 84" long. When I first started the soapstone hunt I was working with Dorado, and they mentioned a brace that could be mounted INSIDE the cabinets - they strongly warned against corbels (b/c of knee hitting) and so wanted to do that.

Ours is the DARK julia from Teixeira - there are two, one more green - this one is mostly black with just bits of green when it's oiled. It's beeeeeuuuutiful. :-) here is my island slab right when it was oiled (it darkens after a couple of hours - but here you can see where the swirls are better in the photo.

It's .... COSMIC!

I KNOW! It looks like galaxies. Of course it's alot more subtle after it darkens. but that's exactly what DH and I both said when we saw it - galaxies. :-)

I love your soapstone - I'm looking at Teixeira too - I was leaning towards the Brazilian Nights ('cuz it's on sale AND I like it), but I am very drawn to the Julia - I love the subtle greens in it. I should probably suck it up and pay the extra $1k.

Who oiled your island?

Due to space constraints our island overhang is only 9". Having read this forum for the last 5 months I was very worried it wouldn't be comfortable for anyone but my children. Now that the counter is in, I can say that it works just fine. So you might want to think about getting those 10" back.

lovelilynne, in the oiled closeup that was at the showroom, the day I picked out the slab. They oiled it. The one that's the island installed is unoiled, though. I'm DYING to oil my island to see. OMG I'm dying to go there to see.

Chachashea, the issue is, if we begin with a 10" overhang, and end up still at 18", the concern is the "curve" won't be curved enough, not very pronounced - I kind of like the curve as it is now. it would just sort of bend a little. So to get a nice curve, we'd need to extend the overhang at the deepest point at least a few inches , and I don't have a single inch to spare.

so now, do I give up the curve for the seat? And go through the hassle? I can still seat 4 there in a pinch - it's just that they won't have lots of overhang. The overhang at the seating point for the two side barstools is 13" now.

I really like the curvy notches, they look like a unique design element. :)

As far as seating, my old island had seating for 3, this one has seating for 2, and it's rare for more than one person to sit at the island. So you'll have to decide what works for your family.

As the owner of M. Teixeira Soapstone, what is said about my company is very important to me, so I'd like to respond to the original posting as well as some of the comments that I have read on this thread:

First of all I'd like to make it absolutely clear that we cannot guarantee that 100% of our jobs will be perfect, please throw the first stone, who can.

What I can guarantee is that 100% of our clients will be treated with professionalism, efficiency,respect and any problems that should arise from our installations, will be addressed immediately, as this one was and all the other ones have been since I opened my doors in 1998.

Some of the comments here were not only unfair and made without any regard to the actual facts, but they were based on a third party , from another trade, making judgments on our work.

I consider a buffoon, one that makes uneducated comments , such as "circuspeanut", who called my professional installer a buffoon, and yet could not tell the difference between a radius cut on the stone and a "ginormous chip" on the stone". I do not make any comments on plastic surgery, to avoid making a fool of myself, I stick to what I am an expert on, and that is soapstone and airplanes( I am also a commercial pilot).

My conclusion to this thread is that we could not have done more to this client, and her concerns/complaints were immediately addressed. Unfortunately you do not see this level of professionalism amongst our trade, and that is why I believe, many people jump the gun in making comments and judgments.

We will all make some mistakes, at some point, the way M. Teixeira Soapstone handles these issues is what sets us aside from all the others.

Sincerely,

Roger M. Teixeira

Roger,

I think that the OP made it very clear that you were doing the utmost to fix the issue and several of us, including myself, have commented on other threads about the fact that you all did take full responsibility for the mistake and worked quickly to try and resolve the issue. Some other posters on here can testify that they were not so fortunate.

As far as the prospect of you losing business because of this particular situation, I think on the contrary, you were shown in a positive light as a company that didn't shirk your responsibilities and stepped up to the plate to take care of things, at least that was my take anyway. A later poster even mentions that she is thinking of using your company and that she liked the soapstone and never mentions being dissuaded by the OP's issue.

I also think that this forum helped your customer realize that it was a fortuitous mistake in some ways, and although it wasn't what she had intended, it ended up being a surprise instead of a full on mistake. It is true that everyone makes mistakes and that things get lost in translation especially during stressful times with lots of decisions being made, but as you said it's how the mistake is handled that counts in the long run, at least for me anyway.

I also think that this is a public forum and so everyone has a right to their own opinion. I can certainly understand that as the owner of the company you were dismayed to hear people you employ being referred to in a way you found less than flattering, but it was still the other poster's right to express her opinion as you have done now as well.

JMHO

Kat :)

Hello Kat,

I agree with your comments, and do respect all postings on this public forum.

One last thing I'd like to clarify, on the original posting, is regarding the sink installation:

When we sell a sink and go to the client's house to take field measurements, and the client does not have cabinets that are ready to accept apron sinks, we instruct the clients on what needs to be done to the cabinetry in order for it to accept our sink. We cannot take responsibility to make adjustments to cabinets, we are not prepared to work on wood or any other type of cabinetry. That is the reason why the GC had to step in and make adjustments to the cabinets, so we could finish installing the sink.Working on another company's product is a liability none of us in the trade is wiling to have.

If the client was not informed about what we needed done to install the sink, than please accept my apologies, but I find this very unlikely since we do this on a daily basis.

We had all necessary tools to deal with our soapstone installation and were 100% prepared to deal with all aspects of the soapstone installation.

Regards

Roger M. Teixeira

Yikes! I heartily apologize for any grief my hasty words might have caused any of the involved parties. They were merely intended to provide quick emotional solidarity based on a situation as described subjectively, not serve as any kind of final objective judgment.

To reassure Mr. Texiera, I believe that most consumers are able to filter internet message forums in that light, although I do regret that I appear to have alienated a potential future supplier of my own soapstone counters.

buffoonishly,
cp

Roger,

This will be my last response because I think the issues have been resolved and everyone is moving on to greener pastures hopefully.

I think we all reached out to kpaquette because she has had a number of unfortunate issues arise during this long distance remodel. Remodeling from far away is in and of itself a stressful process, but she has had several other problems and is also dealing with an ailing cat who is a beloved family pet so we wanted to reach out and give her a big internet hug.

Most of us did also point out that the sink cut out was the responsibility of the cabinetmaker and she (OP) conceded that point fairly early on. That can be one of those things that gets lost in translation. I myself have had several things slip through the cracks and I'm here everyday, but between subs speaking to my husband and also to me, we sometimes fail to communicate everything to one another.

All that said, I think it's nice that you wanted to set the record straight, and as a former sales/marketing person myself I think it's important to get both sides of a story out so that the reputation of your company isn't damaged. There are many glowing reports of Texiera on here so I don't really think there is much fear of that in your case.

I did have to chuckle a bit when I read you were a commercial pilot, my husband is also a pilot and even attended the Navy's Test Pilot School. Pilots tend to be a breed among themselves...very much about setting things straight and staying within the letter of the law so to speak! I hope you don't take that as an insult, it was just something I might have guessed on my own had you not mentioned it! ;-)

Kat :)

Hello Kat,

Now I feel bad for you, married to a pilot :-) just kidding, I know we get very annoying sometimes, as my own 11 year old daughter puts it. Navy Test Pilot School, now that's real flying!

This will be my last posting to this forum as well, I learned quite a bit from it, and perhaps, took some of the comments personally, but having started this company from a kiosk at a NJ mall , and brought to where it is today, with great sacrifice, what all of you think of my company, which carries my last name is very important, and all my employees know that, so I still treat the company as if it was that kiosk at the mall.

As for the cat, I am a pet lover too, I have two Macaws, and even talk to them on the phone when I am gone!

I strongly believe that one happy client will tell 5 people and one unhappy client will tell 50, with that in mind, we all at M. Teixeira Soapstone treat everyone as family, but we cannot win everyone's heart, some like Obama, and some like McCain, while some don't like either...

Well, Roger, I don't think I could even get soapstone from your company since I'm in Canada, but I will say your professionalism and concern for your companies reputation is both noble and heartwarming. I'd use you guys any day!

Roger, You're a commercial pilot, and Kat, you're married to one?? I'm a flight attendant for a major carrier, based in NYC. I even fly to Brazil from time to time. :-)

Lesmis is correct that the sink base prep detail "fell through the cracks" - I'm sure this was at least pointed out to me in my contract, which was in DH's possession, and it was one of those details that fell through the cracks. If I were dealing only with the kitchen in this remodel I might have caught that detail - but my head is swimming with a million other issues and it was forgotten. Anyway I think I pointed out that mistake early on.

Sadly, I had to put down my poor kitty last Sunday. It was time. Cancer is such a nasty disease.

So I went to the house to see the everything for myself earlier this week. The fixed sink is perfect, and I do love the shape of the island. While the island is beautiful, I am still unsure of the overhang. Roger, if you are still following this thread, I will contact your company later on, once my stools are in and I can evaluate it completely. DH is concerned that the overhang for the two outer stools won't be sufficient. I think it will be okay but I'll have to sit on a stool to get a real feel for it. That will be a few weeks, at least. (the house is still a construction zone, no furniture for a while.)

Anyway hopefully it will all be fine, but if not I know Roger and his team will take care of everything.

I'm so sorry about your kitty. ((()))

But so glad that things are working out in the kitchen! It's a great idea to play with the overhang with the stools - it's the only way you'll really know.

Can't wait to see more progress pix!
Eliz

If the carpenter needed to do the sink install (and I appreciate having to install a farmhouse sink, because I have installed one) then I think the least that MTex could have done was shown up when they said they would, not three hours late. If they needed the carpenter on-call, they should be willing to be back-charged for their failure to be prompt.
It's hard enough to scribe an apron front sink,(weight of unit plus the trial and error nature of scribing) but to have to start the project 1 hr. before quitting time is an affront, IMO. Did MTex make the carpenter unload and uncrate it as well? It's grievous to me when other trades show up on my job and start whining and cajoling my guys into doing various bits of their job for them; and why not try that underhanded play, since it's money out of my pocket and directly into theirs? Be wary of any tradesman who shirks his job onto others.

Casey

Kpaquette, I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty! I hope he/she is at peace now. We lost our Aussie almost 10 years ago to cancer at the very young age of 4 1/2 and if you ask my husband about it to this day he will get choked up...me too!

My husband was never a commercial pilot, but we have lots of friends who are and some of them fly out of NYC too! Wonder if you fly with them, that would be too funny! My hubby is on the other side of the fence now, he is a crash investigator for the NTSB...so you DON'T want to ever meet him! You or Roger!

Hope your bar stools work out and glad everything is coming along, can't wait to see pics!

Kat :)