Why not just use the intellitouch and take advantage of the extended warranty, and the native integration of all of your components.

Racket,

It did intend to use Intellitouch but the designer is now pushing for the Aqualink and says it would aork fine. I am a born skeptic so I always check for myself and can find no such documentation.

As for the warranty, I would still have plenty of Pentair parts: pumps, filter, heater. As I am doing this job owner-builder does the extended warranty still apply, or is that only through pool builders?

According the the PDA owners manual, the jandy system is capable of controlling both.

I am still not quite sure why the designer is pushing so hard for the jandy system. I think head to head the Intellitouch beats it hands down.

I am also not sure if the PDA can control the Intellibrites.

I know it can color set and sync them like the SAM lights, but it may not be able to execute the scene commands.

Working fine and actually getting support are two different worlds. Take ipod for example. How many knock offs are there that support the ipod functionality? Not all are made by Apple. Will you go to Apple when your ipod fails to work in these units? No, the ipod was designed to work in Apple products and others have copied Apple. It's a gamble.

The latest version of Aqualink, rev O, will support the IntelliFlo. The inventor of the pump says good luck. If your pump fails on a non-Pentair cntroller, they are not obligated to provide warranty. Other companies are trying to copy protocol to take advantage of the new technology.

It is clear you are dumping a ton of money into this project. If you are sold on Jandy, go with their 8 speed pump. If you are sold on IntelliFlo, go with the IntelliTouch. EasyTouch is great but you are going high dollar here so you may want to stick with IntelliTouch. The newest version of the EasyTouch will support the IntelliBrite lights. Jandy will not be able to address the light functions directly. The MobileTouch is an awesome unit but comes at a high price. Keep that in mind.

Hey repair guy, have you seen Pentair's new MobileTouch2 unit? I was at Superior the other day and a guy behind the desk was showing it off. It looked much smaller than the previous model. The guy behind the counter said the price was also much lower than before.

Repair guy as usual is right - Aqualink will support the IntelliFlo VS and VF models. Also warranty will be an issue if a service call is made and the pump is fine but the controller is an issue. I am sure the same hold true the other way.
linda mac is also right and Mobi 2 is out and is smaller, greater range (500' ft) and 35% less than the Mobi.

Lastly chulaman - The latest version of IntelliFlo was released this week. All the bells of the VS 4x160 pump but the pump is approved as a anti entrapment pump and meets the ASME A112.19.17 anti- body protection code.
Several parts of the country require an additional SVRS device at the homeowner cost of $700-1200.00. Now this will not be an additional cost as the SVRS is now built into the IntelliFlo pump technology.
In the pool business this is a gigantic leap forward. (Amongst other features this pump has 8 settable speeds and a lock out feature that enables an installer to lock out someone from changing a set speed. This is important with commercial pools due to flow rate requirements on commercial pools.
This pump is new and in addition to the 4x160 and variable flow model pumps.

Deek

Deeker--

Thanks for the great information regarding the new Pentair IntelliFlo pump. On the issue of voiding the warranty on Pentair products when using another company's controllers--I had expressed this concern to the PBs I met with. As a "layperson," my concerns were brushed aside, since the PBs say they support what they put in. BUT, my question was for how long . . . and then you pay of course. Also, I did not find anyone offering/promoting using the 3 or more items from Pentair and getting the extended warranty (which I found out about through exchanges like this one).

Can you provide the specific model number to specify in a quote to get the new pump? Is there anything in writing I could put in front of a PB where Pentair states that using non-Pentair controllers voids the warranty? None of the builders I had contacted using the Pentair/Sta-rite products offered the Pentair controllers.

Chulaman --- Where are you located that you are planning on doing an owner build? Have you had any experience doing this before? What advice can you provide in this regard? Thanks.

Racket & Repair Guy --- Thanks for your advice. Everyone has there own opinion of whose system is best, but my inclination is to stick to one manufacturer. Also, where do I get info on the new MobileTouch unit?

Deeker - That is great information on the new pump. I took a look @ Pentair's web site and see the info on the "Commercial IntelliFlo VS+SVRS Variable Speed Pump" but have not seen pricing, so do not know what the real savings would be. Also, although I specified a VF on the pool, for the spa I was using a 4x160 as a wanted the higher possible flow rates and saw no need for the extra features of the VF. Also, the Pentair owner's manuals shows 160 GPM rating for the 4x160 ("IntelliFlo 4 100 operates at a maximum system flow of 100 gallons per minute (GPM)"), but only 130 GPM for the VF ("The IntelliFlo pump can adapt to any application up to 130 gallons per minute").I need the higher flow on the spa setup.

NJfolks --- I am in the Orlando area and have permitted my project and hired most of my subs but have not actually started so I am not sure I can give much useful advice yet.

The IntelliFlo VS+SVRS is priced between the 4x160 model and the VF model.
The web site will change and include Residential and Commercial for this pump.
Deek

Missed a question from njfolks
The P/N for the new pump is 011017.
There will be some very - very strong language in the manual regarding using this pump with controllers other than a Pentair controller.
The reason for this is: this pump is an anti-entrapment pump meaning it "alarms out" and shuts the pump off if it senses obstruction on the suction side of the pump. The pump will then wait 2 minutes before trying to restart. If the obstruction is not sensed the pump will go into normal operation.
Because of the anti-entrapment feature Pentair will explicitly state that non-Pentair automation devices could fail. It one thing when automation does not communicate with a pump and turns your pool green; its a whole other thing when you are taking about entrapment.
Pentair does offer an IntelliCom which is a glorified timer and communication box that allows the pump to interface with competitorÂs automation. It costs a few hundred dollars. There is also an IntelliCom 2 that will be introduced the first of the year. Cost will be around 1/3rd the cost of the IntelliCom.
Both units will allow all the speeds to be timed by competitorÂs automation but you will not be able to see speed on the controller nor can you set speed of the pump from the controller.
Deek

Thanks Deek--

As I do not want to take over this thread I will ask for a review of the equipment I would like to specify (all Pentair) either for a PB or for possibly an owner-built project for a pool and spa combination. Either the PBs I spoke with previously either actually don't know about the limitations on the controller interactions or have other reasons why they fail to mention the shortcomings of mixing manufacturer's key operating equipment. In the case of this new pump it would be more than unprofessional if those PBs selling it don't point this important factor out to the consumer--it would be unconscionable. Thanks again.

So are you saying the new IntelliFlo VS+SVRS has 8 speeds rather than 4 in addition to the entrapment safety feature (which I like but I thought that is overcome by putting in 2 drains -- then again what do I know)?

Katherine

Virginia Graham law does not require SVRS on a pool with dual drains provided they ae 3' feet apart on center. A sinlge port suction or suction ports closer than 3' require SVRS.

SVRS is a second teir of enforcement. It is not the primary. Primary is the main drain cover. ALL covers must be replaced commercially by 12/20 if the pool is open for use. This is the largest endeavor I've ever seen. Virtually every cover under water today is non-compliant. The covers look the same but they are not. They have to hav ethe current code on them and the installation requires a specific gap in the pipe to cover bottom measurement based on pipe size.

The new 4x160 is about $150 more than the standard at distribution.

The huge liablity lies here in VGB law. BY law, a it is illegal to enter into commerce a non-compliant cover. By law, residential pools are exempt for now. A company buys a cover that is compliant on 12/21 and pops in onto a residential spa. That installation is now out of compliance for VGB law as it may not have the proper gap under the cover. The pool guy is ignorant of the fact and the owner is told this cover is compliant. Everyone pays at time of accident and the accident is far more likely to occur in a backyard than it is a public pool.

This is the insanity of the law and lawmakers. They are ignorant of what really happens. Commercial builders are far less likely to take short cuts than a residential guy. They should have started in the yard with this law.

Stay away from the SAVI lights - they are only ETL certified. I know that the IntelliBrites are UL certified which is a much more stringent standard. I have seen some scary lights that claim to be ETL certified that I would not want installed in my pool...

Every pool builder and pool owner should read this document.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mismatching lights and niches can be a SHOCKING combination

"They are ignorant of what really happens. Commercial builders are far less likely to take short cuts than a residential guy. They should have started in the yard with this law."

Maybe in California, in our market the hack builders tend to do a lot of the apartment and hotel pools. Even with health department oversight I have seen a lot of crazy stuff done.. Compound that with the 100X larger bather loads, the chance disaster is far greater.

I don't believe that there is a problem with ETL, and using appropriate niches is somewhat of a common sense issue. However, if you put a Pentair intellibrite in a Hayward niche I really do not see this as being something that is as dangerous as that article describes.

The problem comes when one manufacturer makes a change in their light's design that may make it incompatible or cause a safety problem with another company's niche. ETL should not be certifying 3rd party niches for use with various manufacturer's lights. They can't stay on top of all the changes that are made. UL does not and would never allow this.

Hayward lights should only be used in Hayward niches.
Pentair lights should only be used in Pentair niches.
Jandy lights should only be used in Jandy niches.
SAVI lights should only be used in SAVI niches (do they even have niches???)

Doing anything else is just asking for trouble. Most people forget lights are high voltage devices that are inches from the water. Manufacturer's build in multiple redundant layers of protection to prevent harm to swimmers. However, this assumes that you are talking about the same manufacturer's light and niche!

Yes but a niche is just a light holder if the grounding and bonding mechanisms remain in tact, then you are not creating a dangerous situation. You act as if though the niche does anything besides hold the light and ground grounding is a very simple principal (screw through metal grounds the light).

Why can't ETL Certify them and what changes are being made to light niches????????????? The American ( now pentair) stainless niche has been the same for almost 40 years.

And if a change is being made to a light niche wouldn't both the original manufacturer, and the third party one both have to resubmit for testing?????

racket - you are assuming that the ground wire is ALWAYS run and that the niche is properly bonded. I can't count the number of times I have seen neither in place - even in commercial pools! It is never just one thing that causes an accident but rather a stack up of events. That is why I recommend that people only use a light and niche from the SAME manufacturer. Why would anyone want to take a risk with their family and friends??? It's just that simple.

mac, agree but with that logic a missing bond or lack of potting in the niche on a matched light/niche is just as dangerous as a mismatch. The same manufacturer issue seems to be a mute point.

I'd venture to say most lights in same niche installs are just as unsafe as mismatched. How many guys toss a brass screw in favor of stainless without regard to the ground path? How many use that crappy POOLTOOL wedge when a pilot screw strips and thus break ground? How many yank cords in 3/4 conduit and can't reinstall with the #8 in place and just pull it out? LOTS!

Work around a pool for awhile and you'll never swim in one I always say. I'm sure you've seen all of this.

"racket - you are assuming that the ground wire is ALWAYS run and that the niche is properly bonded."

I am not sure how the matching the light to niche would help in this situation. If its a mismatch you are in just as bad of shape.

I feel that both of these items are 1,000,000 times more important than the light to nice match.

All I am trying to get across is that manufacturers engineer their lights to their niches. Hayward engineers their lights to their niches. Pentair engineers their lights to their niches. Jandy probably does not give much thought to making sure their light bonds/grounds to a Hayward or Pentair niche and vice versa. Will it work? Probably. Will it work as well? Who knows! Will a mismatch work as well 5 or 10 years down the road when the pilot screw strips or gets broken off and a wedge is needed? That's all I am saying. Why risk it?