I am currently getting my pool built by Hallmark and have had pleasant experince working with them. I got quotes from Hallmark, Padre and TLC pools. They were all more or less the same price.

One caution in general: Do your homework and make sure that you put everything that you need in the pool on paper. Once you sign the contract, pretty much every alteration has cost associted with it.

--Scal

We live in San Diego and are now 1 month into our pool building process. We got bids from Hallmark, Mission Valley and San Diego Pools. We chose Mission Valley and couldn't be any happier. It is a family owned and operated business. Mike Cunningham designed the pool of our dreams.....I will post pictures when I figure out how to do it.

I had a very mixed experience with Mission Valley Pools. At the end of the day, we have a *beautiful* pool, but there were some major hiccups along the way. The project was delayed for months, and there were significant cost overruns on the excavation (not unrelated to the less-that-optimal equipment and the lack of two dump trucks both of which were promised). More agregiously, the salesperson we worked with (Chad) conveniently left a major item (solar heating) out of the contract that was clearly stated in the bid. We unfortunately didn't catch this until well into the build when I asked when they were going to plumb for solar (and they informed me that they weren't because it wasn't in the contract.

That said, Bob Cunningham (the owner) is a pretty straight shooter and was very fair in how he handled the issues that arose. He gave us a reasonable break on the dig overrun charges, and was very professional in handling the solar issue (given that legally I didn't have a leg to stand on, but morally I surely did). Upon reading a letter we wrote to him and reviewing the 3 bids that we sent to him -- one in September for a pool with no safety cover and no solar; one in November for a pool with a safety cover but no solar; and the last bid in January for a pool with both safety cover and solar included (and cost of the pool increasing accordingly (and, of course, the contract price was the same as the final bid) -- Bob called the morning before we were supposed to meet and said that it was clear that we were supposed to have solar and arranged for it to be installed the next day (the cost presumably coming out of the salesperson's commission).

Communication with the project managers is a bit sketchy. My impression is that - like many contractors and pool builders - they spread themselves too thin and are building too many pools at the same time. The office staff is wonderful, and do their best to facilitate things. The masons were also great to work with (Uriel is a sweetheart). And, yes, Mike is a pleasure to deal with.

In light of some of the things I've heard here, my experience is probably not atypical in the industry. Mission Valley does build a nice pool, and they are probably better than many. I would, however, only deal with Mike or Bob Cunningham and skip the salespeople. Also, I would review the contract with a fine toothed comb, and put a penalty clause for a going beyond the completion date.

I agree with the above post. Only work with Mike Cunningham. I have faith in him and can't comment on the others in the company. I had a terrible experience with another pool building company when we built our last pool. I was frustrated the entire project mainly because "the guy at the top" could care less about our concerns. At that point, what can you do?? Mike has been more than responsive and like I said before he came up with some amazing ideas that the other pool designers didn't even consider. (Our pool is 60x40) two beach entries, kiddie pool, waterfall, grotto, slide, swim up bar, mosaic table and chair cove area and to top it off a rope bridge that will take you to the slide. Mike listened to all of my thoughts about what I wanted, threw in his own opinions (he is the expert) and what we came up with is more that I ever expected.

ctm 14: Get a bid from Jay Zier at Sundancer Pools.

760-489-5850

Our pool was finished at the beginning of July. We began collecting bids last September and after doing a lot of homework signed our contract at the end of March with Sundancer. We had bids from Mission Pools (not to be confused with Mission Valley), Atlantis, Hallmark and Sundancer Pools.

The prices were all about the same except we had to really study each bid to figure out exactly what we were getting for our money. For instance, the Mission Pool bid was for a pool about 2/3rds the size of the pool we wanted. The Atlantis designer gave us a formal Grecian style pool when we were clearly looking for a freeform lagoon style pool. We found the designers from both Mission and Atlantis were poor listeners and designed the pool they wanted rather than the pool we wanted.

This left us with Hallmark and Sundancer. Hallmark was our first bid and Sundancer was our last. I would have to say we were equally impressed by both Greg Gray of Hallmark and Jay Zier of Sundancer. They are both great listeners and laid out designs and bids that matched exactly what we wanted. It was almost uncanny that their designs were practically identical. Both seemed like guys we could easily talk to and work with as the project progressed and the inevitable hiccups would be encountered.

All other things being equal, we decided to go with Jay Zier from Sundancer Pools because he came highly recommended by former neighbors who have built a couple of pools and who had recommended him to at least ten other friends who all had great experiences. It also turns out that Jay did a pool for another unrelated neighbor one street over from us who was also extremely satisfied. One other thing I really liked about Sundancer was their very detailed computer generated proposal which lays out exact costs of everything including upgrades and downgrades. Jay put absolutely everything into the proposal and then allowed us to pick and choose exactly where we wanted to put our money. We made plenty of big changes throughout the build but in the end came in slightly under our contract price thanks in part to having that detailed proposal.

We were not disappointed. Jay did a fabulous job and was a pleasure to work with. Sundancer builds high quality pools and the nice thing about them is that they don't have to advertise to get business. They rely completely on word of mouth to get their next project which means they make sure every customer is completely satisfied.

Here's a picture of our Sundancer Pool (still getting bids on landscaping).

{{gwi:2050259}}

We also went with Sundancer and Jay was the one we worked with.

He was recommended by a friend who used them 6 months prior.
We also met with Hallmark, Blue Haven, MValley, etc. to gather ideas, etc.

Sundancer built our pool in University City. This was the second time we put in a pool in a San Diego home (about 6 years ago we put one in our prior home in Chula Vista) and this time it went very well. Thanks to Jay. Sorry no pictures if you want to post your email address or phone number I will contact you if you want to swing by and take a look.

Another extremely satisfied Sundancer Pools customer chiming in! We also worked with Jay (I think he must've cloned himself so he could be at all the different jobsites!). What's nice about Sundancer is you have the *same* person from the initial estimate, throughout the entire project, and at the end: Jay. We've recommended SD to lots of friends/neighbors.

No matter which company you go with, make sure you get EVERYTHING in writing. Friends of mine went w/Hallmark. Their product is fine, but our friends had the "bait & switch" tactic used on them throughout their pool build (from pool equipment to what kind of coping was used).

Good luck!
-Melissa

We used Diamond Pools. We had no probems during the build, but had some after. Always stood by their product and are taking care of all issues. 2 years out, we have noticed that the RBB behind a sheer descent is wet. They sent someone out right away. Very flexible with mid-dig changes. We also had bids from Hallmark and Pacific Sun. Did not care for either salesperson. If you do go with Hallmark, make sure to include in your contract, a pool vacuum and hose that goes with your plaster. Friends of ours just finished a pool with Hallmark. They have 3M Carribbean Blue. Their vacuum and hose assembly is black, for a black bottom pool. They were told it doesn't come in white or gray. I strongly urge you to look at reference pools as well as call.
Good luck, Lisa

Thanks Everyone,

I appreciate all of the feedback. I had not heard of Sundancer, but will give Jay a call based upon these glowing reviews. We are building the new home in Carmel Valley do any of you live in that area? I get the advice to make sure everything is in the contract, you are surely at there mercy if you make changes after the hole is dug. Does anyone have advice on negotiating the best price after I have finalized the specific size, materials, & equipment. Wondering if the pool market is slowing just like the housing market.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris, we're in Ramona and Sundancer finished our pool 3 years ago this weekend. We have friends in Ramona and Scripps Ranch who have Sundancer pools.

Sundancer is out of Escondido, so they go anywhere in SD County. They even build pools up in Temecula.

Again, good luck, and I think you'll enjoy meeting Jay! Tell him Melissa from Ramona says "HI!" That will make him laugh!

-Melissa

Chris: We are in Rancho Penasquitos so we are reasonably close to your new home build if you would like to come by to see our pool up close just give me an email address and I will send you details on how to get here address.

Hi Chris -

I'm in Del Mar and would be happy to have to come see my pool and discuss specifics. Just shoot me an email if you want or you can call me at (858) 356-7019.

In addition to Mission Valley Pools, I also had bids from Mission Pools, California Pool and Spa, Pacific Sun, Sundancer Pools (yes, Jay is very nice and I told him Melissa sent me), as well as Sandpiper Pools. Hallmark came over here but never followed up (not a good sign). Our final decision was between Mission Pools and Mission Valley based on price, overall design and features. Whatever you do, you need to compare apples to apples and try to equalize the variables (e.g., hours of dig time included, equipment, etc.)

Hi Arieltas_mom,

It is not clear by you post which PB you went with. I appreciate the offer to check out your pool and may take you up on the offer if I lean towards your builder.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris - I was the one with the long post at the top about my mixed experience with Mission Valley Pools, and my suggestion that, if you were to go with Mission Valley Pools (as I had), to work with the principals -- either Bob or Mike Cunningham -- to try to avoid some of the issues that we encountered. In either case, I would be more than happy to show you my pool, and answer any questions that you may have about anything from pool construction/features/landscaping, etc.

Arieltas_mom,

Thanks I missed that the earlier post was yours. I am actually working with Chad at MV as he is the cousin of one of my co-workers. I like him and feel he will be trustworthy but he does not seem to be extremely organized. I will make sure that everything is stated in the contract should I choose them. Is your safety cover an auto cover? If so what are your recommendations on that front?

-Chris

Fellow San Diegans,

Can you give me an idea as to what is the going rate per square foot for colored stamped concrete, pavers and Flagstone?

Thanks
--Scal

Chris,

Yes I have an Cover Pool automatic pool cover that MV installed. The company that installs and services the pool cover is Alternative Pool Systems, and their service is excellent. I have had a number of problems ranging from the sensor not working properly resulting in the sheer descents not functioning, to the bonding that the inspector insisting upon causing the tracks to disintegrate because of electrolysis, to parts corroding due to of high salt levels because the SWG that was originally installed needed a higher salt content than many. Each time, both MV pools and the pool cover company were responsive (Alternative Pools even got MV pools to replace the SWG to prevent further corrosion!).

In my previous home we had a CoverStar pool cover installed by PoolSafe out of Escondido(the 2 main safety cover manufacturers around here seem to be CoverPool and CoverStar). Again, the service we had on the CoverStar cover was excellent as well, so no complaints there.

As to the stamped concrete/paving price question asked by other poster, I think you'll find that these prices vary greatly. Many of the companies that install pavers charge ca. $12 sq. ft for concrete pavers, which is more or less the same cost as stamped concrete. I think MV pools included 400 sq. feet of concrete decking in the bid, and charged $7 sq. foot for regular (brushed) concrete decking (if I recall correctly, but I'm not 100% positive) for additional decking. We had also contracted for reefstone coping (a cast concrete), but ended up updating to Cantera stone coping. The mason from MV pools agreed to install pavers at the same price as the regular concrete, and I got an incredible deal on both pavers and flagstone by shopping around. We ended up doing a ton of hardscaping and landscaping (retaining walls, decking, stairs, etc.) in a variety of materials, including Cantera Stone, Flagstone, ledger stone, tile, interlocking pavers and retaining wall blocks in projects including the back yard, the side yard and the front entryway (which included entry steps and terracing) and were very pleased with the result.

arielitas_mom,

You have been very helpful. I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions. I will eventually give you a call and arrange to see your pool, thanks for the offer. A few more questions:

* MV is recommending a SWG system and I am concerned about using that with a auto cover due to corrosion. What system did you end up with after the original did the damage and are you happy with it? Why didn't you consider a chlorinator?

* Did you prefer coverstar over coverpools?

* Who did you use to get your best pricing on decking?

Hi Chris,

I very much like having a SWG...the saltwater is softer on the eyes/hair/bathing suits, etc. I got it as an upgrade to the original contract because everyone here seemed to like them quite well.

Originally, the unit that was installed 2 years ago was a Watermaid. The Watermaid runs with a higher salt content than most other manufacturer's units (6,000-7,000 ppm compared to 3,200-3,500 ppm in most units). Prior to running into the problem with the salt water corroding the pool cover, I did not particularly like the Watermaid as it tended to develop air bubbles when i switched the solar heating on and off and the SWG would often stop working after the solar was running.

The unit MV replaced the Watermaid with is an Intellichlor. So far, so good (although, truth be told, I actually preferred the feel of the water with the higher salt content).

As to coverstar v. coverpools, I can't say that I can truly compare the two. MV pools uses Coverpools so CoverStar was not an option. Had I wanted to go with Coverstar, I probably would have had to have subcontracted that portion out. Because I wanted it to be an inground unit, it had to be designed and built together with the pool. The CoverStar cover I had on my last pool was a much simpler system -- it was an aftermarket, deckmounted unit. It was not connected with the sheer descents, so there were no sensors to break down, no SWG, etc. Therefore, I can't really compare the two units, as it's not an apples-to-apples kind of comparison. Customer service (Alternative Pool Systems for the CoverPool and PoolSafe for the Coverstar) for both companies is excellent, though...I'd probably say Eric from Alternative Pool Systems (the one Mission Valley Deals with) would get the nod, as he has been exceedingly responsive and was totally on top of things with the corrosion issues).

As for the decking, I purchased the pavers from Ackerstone in Corona. I liked their selection much more than what I had seen at RCP and KRC. Except for Friday mornings when Ackerstone sells their overruns at a *tremendous* discount to the general public (I got pavers that normally sold for more than $5 sq. ft. for $ .80 a sq. ft (yes, 80 cents!)), they only sell to contractors. Since I was in the process of a home remodel at the time I was able to use my contractor to effect the purchase. Southwest Boulder in Fallbrook is a distributor for Ackerstone, and I also bought additional pavers from them when I purchased my flagstone (they have a great selection!) as the delivery costs were lower.

The coping and most of my decking, seating and retaining walls were installed by MV's mason - Uriel Hurtado. Notwithstanding a couple of issues that arose with the retaining walls owing to an over-zealous building inspector, Uriel was a pleasure to work with. He had some very creative ideas, and was very fair with his pricing. After the remodel/addition was finished (which was nearly 4 months after the pool was done), I took on landscaping and needed to make some changes to the decking (we moved a couple of doors going out the the deck and added a door to the master bath and guest bath). These were done by my landscaper as the pool had been completed and we had since moved on project-wise.

We interviewed 5 companies before selecting San Diego Pools. It was really difficult to compare as there are so many variables. Ken King from San Diego Pools came up with the most creative plan and was very responsive to our questions. The will be doing pool, grotto, slide, as well as decking, bbq and f/p. They have completed demo, dig,rebar and now awaiting plumbing. We have been really impressed with Ken's company. Corey, the project manager, has been here to check on each phase and has been very responsive when we have quesions. We have been very happy with the progress they have made in a short time and are very happy with our decision to go with them.

Be aware that Hallmark Pools has gone out of business and has left 40 to 60 customers with unfinished pools according to an article that appeared in the San Diego Tribune this past week.

Dogpaddle,
Please send an email as I would like to see your pool. I'm in PQ also.

All,
I see it's been a couple years. Do you have any updated opinions on Sundancer? Thank you!
mcosta@communitymail.nu.edu