So glad you posted this. This was my next question as well. Did you consider Kraftmaid at all? No bias here - just wondering.

Hi odiegirl:

No, I didn't really consider Kraftmaid. I know lots of people have them and are happy with them. I heard they spend two minutes per door, so I don't think that they have quite the quality control that some of the other lines do.

I am not directly familiar with Medallion but the Wellborn will definitely be a better quality than the Thomasville in my experience.

I have used Thomasville, Kraftmaid, and Plain & Fancy in various projects, and FINISH wise anyway, P&F had the best, followed by Kraftmaid, followed by Thomasville.

The Thomasville seem very sturdy and have a good price point but the finish is not exceptional. The one disclaimer I should make is that the client for whom I used Thomasville is not a good housekeeper, so the finish may be taking more of a beating in that household. However, I felt that there were some inconsistencies in finish (trim not matching the doors exactly, etc. right off the bat)

live_wire_oak - sorry to chime in here. I am trying to read between the lines with your apples to apples comment but I just can't do it. Do you consider Wellborn below Thomasville and Medallion and if you do why? I am going through the same debate as karena and it seems very hard to sift through all of the choices. For me, I am in the 10k range of a 20k-25k budget which includes some structural changes.

To give some perspective, the prices came in as follows:

Wellborn - $17,500
Medallion - $15,500
Thomasville - $11,500 with all the discounts ($400 sink base + $2,300 or $2,700 total)

I live in northern California, (San Francisco bay area) where the houses have been historically more expensive than other parts of the country. The median home price has gone from a high of 700-800k to a low of 400k. We are trying to keep within a $35k-40k budget. It's just hard to leave $3k on the table. The two quotes for Wellborn and Medallion were with small cabinet shops. I'm pretty sure that they can't match the HD Thomasville price. I worry a bit about the small cabinet companies going out of business, in this economic climate. I have the same worry with the appliance places.

I didn't have a lot of confidence in the HD designer, bless his heart, his English was terrible, it took him three hours to get a quote, and I had him call Thomasville three times to get my questions answered. Each line has slightly different options for ventilation hoods, spice racks, glass, etc.

I have the most confidence in the KD who represents the Medallion line. She is fast, knows her line, and came up with a quote in a very short order.

The designer representing the Wellborn line was nice enough, but she wouldn't even give me a print out of the design and she wanted to insert herself by making decisions such as pulling out an 18-inch depth run of cabinets on the gas range side meeting up 12-inch depth of cabinets albeit with a 90 degree angle up at the top, but without passing it by me. Then, she gave me triple crown molding and just assumed I wanted the "egg and dart" molding because it looks like little Eiffel Towers to her. I don't like egg and dart molding!

Of course, I can always go back and change things up, but I feel I have to micromanage the process with both the Wellborn and Thomasville representatives.

If I think objectively about it, I think Wellborn does have the nicest finish. I can cut costs by turning the door end panels into plywood veneer end panels. To be honest, my quotes aren't really apples to apples, either with respect to the solid door end panels (Wellborn had it, Medallion doesn't include it, and Thomasville does include it). I'll have to think about the trade-offs.

The other issue about Thomasville is it appears that the drawers are more shallow than Medallion and Wellborn. I think the lead times are all about the same with these manufacturers (5 to 6 weeks).

Like odiegirl, I also have some structural changes--a post which is holding up the end of the roof needs replacing with a beam, otherwise, this cramped kitchen will still feel closed in.

live_wire_oak: thank you for your comments. I am going to mull this all over.

Karen

I don't know how large your kitchen is but if you are in the $17,000 range with Wellborn maybe you should look at Plain and Fancy.

I will probably get some protests but a lot of the kitchen designers at HD are not NKBA certified designers nor do they have a strong interior design education: they are trained to plug in features on software. (Some of them do have an actual education and certification)

If you go to a kitchen designer at a kitchen place, it is pretty expected that they will tweak your design. A good designer Should give you something better than you could do yourself (although on GW, we are not the "general public" in the sense that there are many design-savvy "amateurs".)
She should determine your likes and dislikes but a designers job is to design, even if it means changing yours a little. You may have her change it Back, but she is there to make it better, not simply validate your choices.

There have been a number of discussions before about not getting the design printouts:

Of course not. In essence you could walk out with the Wellborn design, take it to HD and have it plugged in for free. So, you would have had a kitchen designed by a kitchen designer who makes her money from the commission of your Order. That is why you don't get the design from kitchen places before you make a deposit. The design work is not free. At Home Depot it is "free" because the kitchen person is also making a salary and getting benefits and has other store responsibilities when they are not plugging designs into the software. Also they work at a high volume.

Karena: I looked at Thomasville and Kraftmaid at HD. I also looked at Wellborn and Medallion. I ended up with Medallion painted cabinets. I thought the painted finish and the construction was the best. I never did price out Wellborn though. I assumed that they would be cheaper in price than Medallion, because I thought Medallion was just a better cabinet after comparing them.

To my eye, the Thomasville painted finishs did not appear to be even near the quality of the Medallion finishes. The Thomasville glaze in the HD setup seemed like it was "dirty". The Thomasville painted finishes seemed like plastic to me. The Thomasville setups in HD didn't seem to be holding up very well. The draweres didn't glide that well and they just looked "beat up". Just MHO of what I saw.

As many of you know by now, I think Medallion is a good quality and value. Good luck in your choices!

Barb

Actually, neither the Wellborn rep nor the Medaillon reps are certified kitchen and bath designers. The Wellborn rep worked five years at HD before going into business for herself. The Medaillon rep has been in sales for many years, had her own business, and says she comes by design naturally.

I paid $2,000 for a certified kitchen and bath designer and got her drawings. Then, upon further reflection, I realized she must have been rusty on her field measurements because she would have added another four inches to my already "tight" dining room side, which I have to use as a walkway to get to the kitchen and family rooms. Boy, am I ever glad I didn't order cabinets from her. Not only that, her design would cause a lot of construction costs: demolishing a wall only to rebuild it and take up another four inches of precious real estate. She had the certification, the magazine kitchens, etc.

bbtondo: thanks for your insightful comments. I see what you mean about the Thomasville HD setup being with the finish that looked "dirty". I was going to go with hte Amaretto creme glaze. I don't know if that was the same one as the display. This is a good point, though.

The HD price was wrong: the rep forgot to plug in the lazy susans in the bottom corners and he forgot the microwave cabinet. That's going to add another $2,000 to the price.

I'm going to give this a break for a while, it's driving me crazy!

Barb: do you have pictures of your kitchen by any chance?

Thanks,

Karen

She was going to Intentionally expand your kitchen by 4" or that would have been an accident?

Either way, its bad, but to intentionally incur construction costs like that for such a small dimension is just wrong. If it was an accident, it would have been her fault, and her responsibility to make it right. Hopefully, they would have found this error when they finalized the measurements before ordering.

Unfortunately it sounds like you are having a bad experience all around. I swear that many kitchen places Bank on the fact that most people will do one kitchen and are Not going to be repeat customers. That is what my experience has been both as a customer and designer.

karena - I am so sorry that you are having such a bad experience with this. I sure don't blame you for wanting to take a break. I think you do need to find the right designer, one with the skills and one you feel comfortable with. If you are primarily interested in Medallion maybe you can find another dealer. I know Lowe's carries Schuler which is really Medallion. There are probably other links but I included an old thread about Schuler/Medallion.

Maybe you should consider Crown Point. I have only heard extremely positive things about them. You don't have a huge kitchen and maybe they are still running some of their special discounts. They offer frameless and face frame including inset. Danielle00 is one you can talk to. CP does the design for free. I may still consider them once I know what my final budget will be. I asked for some sample finishes and they sent them ASAP. Gorgeous!

Good luck and keep me posted. I will do the same.

Here is a link that might be useful: 08 thread about Schuler

Hi palimpsest,

I would like to think it was an accident, but I truly do not know for sure one way or the other. I had two contractors bring this to my attention and then I started digging into her drawings, which were very difficult to read as they were done the old fashioned way--by hand. I also found that she made a mistake in the measurement of the range elevation. My DH didn't believe me at first, because he was so sure of her expertise! Then he started digging into it and couldn't believe it. We both felt bad and regretted hiring her in the first place. I really didn't want the contractor to design my kitchen for me, so I hired a certified kitchen and bath designer.

This is her work here (Layout 1), but I had to chop it up so it's difficult to see:

Because we do not want to remove the 23 inch wall only to rebuild it, I had to give up the 43 inch La Cornue Fe and go with the 36 inch Albertine, otherwise, I would have to cut down on the corner lazy susan cabinets, which are the key design feature to my kitchen. She told me right off the bat: I don't care whether you like it or not, you are getting two corner lazy susans!

odiegirl: thanks for telling me about Schuler cabinets. I remember seeing them at Lowes a long time ago and liking them! I think I'll have to check them out. I had no idea that they were the same Medallion line. Incredible!

Thanks, ladies, for your kind words and moral support, I appreciate it. I think my DH and son at home are kind of sick of my obsession with the kitchen project!

"I don't care whether you like it or not, you are getting two corner lazy susans!"

Hmph. Who does she think she is Frank Lloyd Wright? That does certainly lock you into specific dimensions.

The Cornue Fe is an odd size to work with in an American kitchen, it throws off the increment a bit. Do you not like the 900 Cornue Fe (36")?

Yep, I'm going to buy the 900 La Cornue Fe 36". I agree that the 43 inch La Cornue Fe is an odd size. I do like the fact that the 36" "Albertine" will slide in and out of the space.