Height of Sub panel/Electrical Box

cutter2010

13 years ago

Just noticed that the height of my pool subpanel is going to only be about 12 inches above ground once final grade is established. Anyone know what the standard height of a sub panel is? How high is yours from the ground?

Before I ask (or demand) my PB to move it, wanted to get some feedback. What I think happened is the electrician made an honest mistake not realizing the grade was going to be higher. Not sure how he would think that considering the equipment is proped higher but trying to give the benefit of the doubt. I know it's going to be a mini battle with the PB so wanted to check with my favorite forum on the matter.

I have two concerns. With saftey in mind, snow will cover the panel in the winter. Wouldn't mositure get in and cause potential long term problems? My second concern is convenience. I would have to sit on the ground to make changes in the panel.

Do I have a valid beef or am I overreacting?

Thanks

Featured Answer

Rack Etear

13 years ago

The 8" is for a light junction box, so unless the easy touch panel is being used for the light junction box, this doesn't apply.

Whether the rating is for "all weather" or not, doesn't make it a good idea to install it where the now would encapsulate it. This is what we call a "bad idea". It's not rated for underwater use, and any inspector that had his whits about him would reject an outdoor panel that would be covered in snow.

Saying something isn't in violation of an electrical code doesn't make it 'safe'. Most electrical codes, are written because of recorded accidents, or because of lobbyist trying to sell products.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (10)

Rack Etear
13 years ago
IMO, the panel should be 1' above snow level.

Electrical codes do not set a minimum, but they do list a max at 6'7" .

I wouldn't want to get on the ground to service my easy touch.
paradigmdawg
13 years ago
I know nothing about this stuff Racket but my PB said that there was a 12" min. height requirement.

We were talking about the manual pool light switch when he said that but I assumed it meant all electrical terminations.
Related Discussions
Installing a 100A sub panel off a 200A main panel
Q
Comments (7)
Thanks to sierraeast for straightening my goof-up out & Bill,that's a pretty good detailed work-up about what I've got planned. I'm going to study it at length,but you confirmed my basic original thoughts about how to accomplish this. Your charts and guidlines will be very helpful as I fine tune this. The point about installing the panel in the garage/interior wall cavity was a great heads-up....I was going to do just that. If I surface mount the sub panel in the garage on top of the firerock(perhaps in a firerock plenum) then I should be OK ? I had planned to run all the garage wiring in conduit anyway. I should add the additional rooms(12' firewall between the garage/shop & living area) will be 8' ceiling height in an area that is 12' tall(this leaves a 3&1/2' loft/storage area above those rooms). This will also make those areas easier to wire/insulate/& run HIVAC plumbing. Thanks very much for the information.... back to the drawing board..LOL...Dave
...See More
Moving Electrical panel Box
Q
Comments (6)
It should only take several hours for an electrician to disconnect the wires and rotate the box if that was all that was involved. However, it's hard to tell what all is happening in that box. For example, it looks like there are wires coming out of the bottom of the box that are going somewhere else, and there may also be some splices in the box that are not to code. How much these issues add to the time I can't say. Also, you are aware, aren't you, that the electrician will have to cut out sheetrock above and below the box to pull the wires through and then reinstall them once the box is turned? And you are getting a permit, right?
...See More
A couple more sub panel questions
Q
Comments (28)
So far so good. I have learned that ground rods are harder than I initially thought, and more difficult to drive. I got the first 4' in within about 5 minutes. After that, I could no longer pull it out of the ground, and had to go to beating it in. I have a 3lb drilling hammer, and initially I was concerned with harming the rod, so I was trying to pad it with wood as I beat it. I don't recommend this :) I put the clamp on the thing, and commenced to wetting the ground and beating on the rod. I have another 8" left but now I have to dig my trench to bury the other wires. I have a hammer drill, but for the life of me could not figure how to employ that without some special bit (which I didn't have). Anyway, back to trenching which I am not looking forward to, after which I get to run wires through the studs and stuff. My ceiling is less than 8' high, any good recommendations for lighting? Looking for the most bang for the buck, easiest maintenance, and longest life. You know, I want everything for nothing :) I am considering fluorescent or LED but haven't decided which. If I go with LED I will put cans in, but if fluorescent I will only put up outlet boxes. Unless there is something else out there to consider?
...See More
Sub-panel Wiring and Grounding
Q
Comments (6)
A really, really, good time to ask about this stuff is before you start the work. Older code versions allow you to use a 3 wire feed from the main disconnect on the pole, but you have a 4 wire feed there you're not using. You should hook up the unused #2 and use it as the neutral and the #4 as the ground, both hooked to the same buss at the pole disconnect. Then at the shed the neutral buss should be isolated from the panel and the #2 and any neutrals attached to it and the #4 attached to a ground buss, installed extra if needed. The conduit from the shed to the cabin should have another #2 installed for a neutral (assuming aluminum here)and the #4 again used as a ground . There needs to be a ground rod or 2 at each panel (one panel per structure assumed). The neutrals and grounds need to be separated in the panels. Prior practice would allow you to use the neutral as the ground as well, and you probably could here but it doesn't make much sense as the 4th wire sounds like it is present in most of the installation. The whole idea is to get the metal housing of the panel out of the current carrying business, which it does in a 3 wire system. A neutral failure in this configuration puts line voltage on the metal housing where a 4 wire doesn't.
...See More
cutter2010
Original Author
13 years ago
I currently have a request into the pool builder and the electrician to remedy the situation. Will let you know what they say once I hear back.
manhattan42
13 years ago
The panel enclosure shown is rated for outdoor use in all weather conditions, so snow accumulation around it is of no concern.

The National Electric Code does set a minimum height for the bottom of pool deck boxes.

They must be located a minimum of 4" above grade or pool deck level and a minimum of 8" above maximum pool water level.

Your panel meets electric Code minimum on all counts and would be considered a 'safe' and code compliant installation.

You will therefore have a hard time getting this box installed higher without having to pay extra to the pool company to relocate it higher.

Sorry.
huskyridor
13 years ago
quote" The 8" is for a light junction box, so unless the easy touch panel is being used for the light junction box, this doesn't apply. "quote

In almost all digital controlling systems the power center becomes the JB for the pool/spa lamptails.
The bottom of the power center used as it's JB must be a minimum of 8" above the level of the highest water elevation, this is usually the level of your water in a raised spa. If it's not you must place another JB meeting this height and run a switch leg to the power center.

See ya,
Kelly
Rack Etear
13 years ago
Kelly, there is a light jbox to the right of the panel.

Because of the ignorance of our inspectors, we always use jboxes for the light, it's cheaper than constantly arguing with them.

Regardless the panel should not be located in a location where it will be under the snow, and at a place that you have to get on your hands and knees to operate, unless you specifically ask for it to be that way.
gaylek
13 years ago
Take it from one who has to bend over to read the minerals springs system. Get it to eye level! As you get older you will definitely appreciate it.
BTW, I said I think all the equipment should be planned/laid out by a 65 year old over weight person! Then (most) everyone should be comfortable with the heights!!
huskyridor
13 years ago
Racket, you've got great eyes, LOL!!!
I didn't even notice it.
I'm laughing about your inspector comment, I deal with their lack of knowledge on code all the time.
I've built quite a few pools for building and home inspectors, several of them were for chief inspecors of local small cities. I keep these chief's cell numbers in my cell to dial promptly when I have an encounter where I feel we're in the right, to discuss and describe what he feels isn't code compliant to his superior, and to let me do the same so hopefully I can avoid rework and a come back inspection.

I'm not trying to take the builders side on the matter, I do agree it's to low and should be raised, but I really don't feel the average builder would do it for free unless his electrician ate the redo.
His electrician should have opened his ayes, looked at the levels, and raised it higher during installation.
I'd suggest asking the builder to drop on his knees to look at the service panel lights and then ask him to take you to his house so you can get the feel of how it works at his place. Trust me, if this install was at his house it would be getting raised for free just as yours should be handled too.

See ya,
Kelly
cutter2010
Original Author
13 years ago
Great news. After having the electrician come out, he also agreed that the sub panel was installed a bit too low which is probably more like 8-10 inches above finished grade (where equip is located). The crew will be out tommorow to raise it up.

Props go out to Village Electric in Chelmsford, Ma for promptly addressing the issue. I know a lot of companies would try to avoid making the changes so we are thrilled with Village going the extra mile.

Shot of Before (Will upload final pic when I get it).

Height of Sub panel/Electrical Box

Rack Etear

Comments (10)

Rack Etear

paradigmdawg

Related Discussions

cutter2010
Original Author

manhattan42

huskyridor

Rack Etear

gaylek

huskyridor

cutter2010
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Height of Sub panel/Electrical Box

Comments (10)

Related Discussions

cutter2010Original Author

cutter2010Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

cutter2010
Original Author

cutter2010
Original Author