Wow, the flame wars are still going on. But, it sure makes for an interesting read. Been too busy at work to follow them for a while. I still pose my previous question from a few days ago -- Where is all of this moral outrage when the animal being killed isn't cute, fuzzy, and something that showed up in a Disney movie? Other than one poster, no one seems to care about moles, voles, squash borers, slugs, etc., but they are all 'God's creatures' are they not? Perhaps it's symptomatic of the society we live in -- would the media follow the daily ups and downs of Britney, Paris, Tom-Kat, or BrAngelina if they weren't the 'beautiful people?' I think the animal rights bleeding hearts are only concerned about the cute, fuzzy little critters. Despite the fact that one poster seems to think I'm some kind of psychopathic serial killer because I put out poison bait blocks for the voles, it seems to me that I and the vast majority of the rest of the posters on here recognize the need to control vermin species when they get out of hand. If we don't keep things like mice, voles, rats, etc., under control, we'll all end up living in filth and disease as happened during the Middle Ages. And, in the real world, the only practical way to do this is often to kill them. It doesn't mean it's 'fun,' but sometimes, 'a man's gotta do ....' And, it isn't based on some deep, dark psychological 'need' to harm animals, its based on a simple, pragmatic desire to protect all of our hard work and our financial investment. Trust me, been there, done that, I really did have a blue heron eat $500 worth of koi in an afternoon. No, I didn't kill it or shoot it, I strung fishline all across the pond, which was a pain in the butt, but it worked to deter the herons. Had that not worked, in that case, I would have been screwed, because herons are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1919, no exceptions that I know of allow them to be killed. I did lose many of hundreds of dollars worth of plants to voles in the past few years. Some of them were figs and other woody plants I was overwintering in a deep trench under mulch. When I dug them out in the spring, I LITERALLY had sawdust, nothing else was left. So, I now put out, carefully, in nooks and crannies where pets and desirable wild animals can't get them, LOTS of poison bait blocks. It's expensive, and frankly I wish I didn't have to, but it's better than the alternative of being overrun with voles. The poison bait keeps them to a low level, but doesn't totally eliminate them. I had a filthy mouse invade my house a few years back. I won't be a hypocrit myself and deny that I didn't get some little sense of satisfaction in hearing the mousetrap go 'snap' when I finally got the mouse that moved into my kitchen cupboards, but I hardly think that makes me a depraved Jeffrey Dahmer type serial killer. There's a big difference between people who are killing 'vermin' species for a legitimate economic or health reason, and between those mentally disturbed or sociopathic individuals who do torture animals, usually domestic animals, for some sick reason. I think the vast majority of us know the difference between a vole or squirrel and the neighbor's cat. And, I don't see how taking a little satisfaction in eliminating a serious pest problem which has been plaguing you makes someone a bad person. Now, when you take it to the level of George W. going after Saddam Hussein on contrived charges, just to show up or show off to his daddy, well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, starting a war, killing thousands of people, and sinking this country into a political and economic quagmire. When it rises to that level, then, I think you can legitimately ask questions about someone's psychological makeup and mental stability. But, those of us shooting a squirrel or two to save our fruit trees don't exactly rise to the George W. level. I apologize to any Neocons and Bush supporters out there, dont' want to turn this into a purely political debate,just had to vent a bit and make that analogy. By the way, for the squirrel huggers out there, are you aware of the fact that some communities BAN or LIMIT the feeding of squirrels and other wild animals and birds BECAUSE feeding them is a public health and safety issue? Roseville, Michigan is one such community, and there are others. And, while rare, squirrels CAN transmit rabies, among other diseases. Finally, a couple of other thoughts. Lobster -- yum! And, as someone named Dave pointed out above, I don't know WHY I'm wasting my time arguing this with someone who very well might be some 14 year old idealist who has never lived in the real world. Ah, the joys of the 'net. Allenwrench -- you might really enjoy this forum. Check it out, seems to be right up your alley, based upon all of your recent posts: http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/ Dennis SE Michigan Dennis SE Michigan Here is a link that might be useful: I Dig My Garden Forums

I found my own surprise this week - I'd pulled two little clumps of germinating seedlings from my hellebores, thinking they were strange, definitely not hellebores. Hmmmm, what kind of pod could have blown in there that all those '???' seeds had germinated almost on top of each other. Pod? Fruit? Berry? Duh. Clump three and closer examination, they're sunflowers. Little stashes of sunflowers. We don't have squirrels, but occasionally a chipmunk. I suspect it was Chippy :)

I am wondering whether the red pepper has any effect on the soil or the plants? I feed the birds in our backyard and have a wonderful view of them at the feeder. Brings me a lot of joy. My favorite is a pair of cardinals. Generally the male and female are usually close by each other, but not generally in the same spot at the same time. Spring has changed that---they now can be seen eating together---and the best part is when they fly to each other and the male feeds the female. How cute! So feeding the birds means I have a lot of squirrels. One thing I noticed is that they spot anything new in the garden---new plants planted, new pots appearing, pots moved to another spot---and they have to "check" it all out. I have a lot of hostas in pots, but in the early spring when I have to bring them out of the garage, I put them on a table or overturned garbage can because I know that the squirrels are especially hungry in the spring and they will definitely be digging in them. (Only problem is that I am getting more hostas, more pots and running out of room!) I don't know if you may remember my other method of deterring the squirrels in pots---plastic mesh that fit to cover the soil and held down with clips (previous thread). I also have been known to put decorative rocks on the soil around my hostas. I do all that until everything else is growing and then there is more available for the squirrels to eat and they seem less of a problem.

Squirrels are a tough nut to crack--so to speak, Cat! The squirrel baffles David mentioned are a possibility, but squirrels seem to be smarter than human beings, and it's not at all unusual for them to figure out how to get past the baffle. If you were using one on a tree you'd need to be absolutely certain it was high enough on the trunk that they couldn't just jump up past it--and they can really jump! And if the tree(s) is anywhere near another tree or a building, or ANYTHING they could go up and then jump down onto the tree, they will very definitely do it! At the last house I lived at there was a BIG silver maple in the backyard and I tried for YEARS to hang bird feeders from the tree that the squirrels couldn't get to! Total failure! I tried store bought and homemade baffles and they ALWAYS figured out how to get past them eventually. The last thing I tried was hanging a feeder with a wire that was as thin as sewing thread, and the feeder was at least 6' down from the branch. The squirrels just shinnied down the wire---so fine that I couldn't even see it from inside the house! Sometimes they'd slip and fall when they were "going down the wire," and when they eventually got tired of doing it that way they just chewed thru the wire so the feeder fell to the ground! I never did find a way to stop them and after the "wire" experiment I stopped hanging feeders in the tree and kept them hung from the eaves of the house over the concrete patio on the back of the house, and that way I could at least scare them away as soon as I saw them, and I pretty much switched to feeding thistle and safflower, which squirrels don't like, but when I put even just a little bit of sunflower out they continued to be a Public Nuisance right up until I moved out! Like I said, if they really want something, they're definitely smarter than humans! About the only thing I can think of that "might" help (really not sure!) would be to get one of the motion-activated water thingies that spray anything that comes into the field of the sensor. They're supposed to work pretty well for domestic animals--dogs, cats, etc., but I don't know if a squirrel would eventually decide it was just a nice bath and ignore it or not! They supposedly work because of the element of surprise, and squirrels are definitely skittish things, so maybe it would work. The couple times I checked them out, they're not cheap, and you need to leave the water turned on for them to work, so you need to be sure you're using a GOOD hose that isn't gonna blow out or you could wind up with a BIG water bill! But it is at least something for you to consider, and it seems to me that it could conceivably work to scare birds away too if you got one that could be aimed high enough to cause considerable sudden motion of the leaves. Other than that I don't have any suggestions. Cutting down some of the big trees should help--a LITTLE bit--to "redirect" some of them to other yards with more trees, but if there's something in your yard they want, they'll find it and keep on looking for ways to get it! This year shortly after I started planting fall bulbs I found a couple places where they were digging DEEP looking for them! I'm still waiting on a couple things to see how many come up and how many became expensive Squirrel Chowder! I was able to solve that problem for the rest of the winter by laying chicken wire and my pea and cuke trellises over the areas where they had been digging and where I was afraid they might start digging! That, of course, was in addition to all the chicken wire I have on top of my veggie garden to keep the neighbor's cats from using it as a sandbox! My backyard looked like a wire factory! You might want to keep an eye out for squirrel nests in your or any neighbor trees that you're friends with and if you see them building a nest destroy it so they'll seek out a friendlier place to set up housekeeping. If they're nesting very close to you the babies will become accustomed to making themselves at home in your yard, just making the situation even worse. And be sure you're not attracting them by having dog food outside or anything else they might want like fruit/food scraps on a compost pile. If you're not familiar with squirrel baffles, I'm linking a search page so you can see what David and I are talking about. Good luck in your battle with Squirrelus obnoxiousii! Skybird Here is a link that might be useful: Squirrel baffles!