Clara, I've read a lot about copyright stuff on some machine embroidery forums, and the general opinion seems to be that if you contact the originator of the pattern and ask their permission to sell items you make from their pattern, they are okay with it. They usually ask you to acknowledge them. It all seems to boil down to asking their permission. Now, if you were going to photocopy the pattern and sell those, that would be a different story!

I know with our music we use at church we have to display the publisher's name, and if we need to make copies we just ask for permission. Occasionally they will charge a small fee for making copies.

Donna

One way around it is to sell the copy of the pattern to the customer. Your customer has the book/pattern and the quilt. All you have provided is the labor.

So how does one go about copyright-ing their quilts/layouts/patterns?

Is it simply a matter of registering it somewhere? If so, where? Or is this the "mail yourself a letter with the information and photos" type of copyright?

Just curious. Maybe Dr.Google has the answer? I'll check there, too.

Kelly (Nebraska)

IÂm glad this question was posted. I have a board game with really cute characters on the game and on the cards with the game. Does anyone know if I would be infringing on copyrights laws if I scanned the images and photo transferred them onto fabric for a quilt just for myself? And what if the quilt turned out nice and I wanted to post a photo of it on this forum, would that be in violation of copyrights???

Nina

Nina, I think as long as you are not selling anything you would be okay.

Donna

This topic is another reason I love this forum. I always learn so much from all of you. I haven't sold quilts but am not sure I would have thought of the copyright law if I did.

Thanks for the good info,
Liz

I too find this topic very interesting. As a person who does some writing and computer programming professionally, I can see why people are very protective of their ideas/intellectual property.

So I can see when someone creates an original pattern and sells it that they would say they are selling the pattern for one person's use, not for them to create a business of selling that quilt.

But I'm a little perplexed about how people can come up with "settings" for traditional blocks and consider that their pattern -- unless there is something very unique about their setting, it seems that there are several ways to set/frame blocks and several traditional blocks, and one could easily come up with the same setting as another by pure coincidence. What then? I'd hate to get hauled away from my little craft cart at the fair in handcuffs... ;-)

Ah, yes, Google "copyright quilting" and you'll find lots of interesting stuff.

The Lost Quilt web page I posted above talks about registering your copyrighted quilt -- but there's some stipulations, in that your quilt has to be unique, and there are guidelines for determining that. So if you make, say, a Turning Twenty quilt, you couldn't copyright your quilt.

Also, you do not have to register a copyright to own the copyright. If I publish a pattern, I own the copyright whether I register it or not. If I want to sue someone for selling my pattern, registration becomes more important.

Copyright law for books (novels, for instance) and images is more clear cut in my mind -- you can't copy parts of someone else's book and sell it or use it in a way that deprives them of income.

With patterns, it's a bit more interesting because -- the purchaser of the pattern expects to make a copy of the work (quilt). Why else would you buy a pattern?

So, Bonnie at Quiltville owns the copyrights on her patterns that she has published online, but she's chosen to, basically, give away most of those rights and allow the public at large to use them according to the limits she specified.

I've seen quilts for sale online, where the maker says something like "So-and-So's Dancing Flowers design, done in blues". Technically, this is illegal unless you have permission from So-and-So. Whether So-and-So wants to take legal action is up to So-and-So.

I don't know if selling a copy of the pattern with the quilt lets you off the hook or not if you aren't making it for someone at their request, but rather, making it and selling it, even with a pattern included. Time for more googling. I suspect you'd have to license the right to sell quilts from So-and-So's designs, from So-and-So.

?????
More questions, more questions.
?????

CMC
Sort of off-topic notes:

Having comunicated with fiction writers, it's common for a book publisher to own the copyright to a book for so many years, then it reverts back to the author. This is all spelled out in the publishing contract, but the copyright originally belongs to the author, who agrees to "sell" it to the publisher.

Many years ago, when movies on VHS tapes were new, an aquaintance had a nice little side business copying movies and reseling them to a business overseas (long boring details omitted). He figured since he was not selling them in the US, no one would find out. Eventually, the FBI contacted him and said, more or less, "Don't do that anymore." and he stopped doing that.

I'm glad others find this topic interesting too. I've been giving it a lot of thought since class yesterday, and have come up with a couple of thoughts on it.

One - How far do you take this? For example:
In quilt books/magazines or on quilt pattern evenvelopes, we see nice colorful photos of the featured quilts, yes? I wonder...do all of those quilt designers get permission from people like Moda Fabrics, RJR Fabrics, etc...to use their fabrics in a quilt that will be published? After all, the fabric design is just as much a copywright issue as the quilt design...and the fabric companies could well say that their fabrics are for use in making products for the home..not for selling - just like the quilt designers do. If the quilt designers are not getting permission...either because they just don't, or the fabric companies don't require it, isn't that just a bit hypocritical? After all, the right fabrics can make or break a top quilt design..so if it's ok for a quilt designer to use someone's unique fabric to make money, why isn't it ok if I make their quilt pattern and sell it?

Two - All blow and no go...and lots of bluffing
It strikes me that while some quilt designers may be quite adamant about this and that being their design it's another matter entirely to enforce that. One of the ladies in the class said that one quilt designer famous for her kaliedoscope designs, was at a quilt event when folks came up and congratulated her on her new carpet line. Puzzled, she went to one of the ehxibit halls and sure enough, a carpet company had taken her design concept and made a carpet pattern out of it. She took them to court and after a very lengthy ( and I'm sure expensive) process, won. Now..if it's a lengthy and expensive process to do battle on a blatant commercial copywright violation issue..what luck would any independent quilt designer have prosecuting some poor woman who had made a couple of her quilts to sell at a local craft show? What would he/she expect to get out of it, except for a lot of ill will?
It's kind of like the clothing pattern thing. Simplicity and other pattern makers may "say" that you can't sell clothing made from their patterns..but just try and prove it IS your pattern. That would be pretty impossible, since clothing pattern makers COPY the patterns for items of clothing popular with the public themselves. They don't "invent" anything.

I understand the need an importance of trying to preserve one's copywright on a given design - I really do. However, I think it's best to focus on protecting what it is you've invented/created - not what can be done with it. Quilt designers should prosecute people who attempt to copy their pattern and sell it as their own...not people who make their pattern into a quilt and try to sell it - something that the quilt designer never had any intention of doing. Just my two cents worth..
Clara

Fabrics in magazines: I'm sure the fabric manufacturers don't mind their fabrics showing up in magazines as long as they can stay in business making fabrics. In fact, some of the magazines don't want to show anything BUT the latest fabrics (the fabric companies advertise in those magazines and it drives up the demand!)
Patterns: Suppose you came up with a beautiful, original design for a quilt, went to all the trouble and paid for copyright registration, and sold a pattern for it. Somebody buys the pattern, makes an identical quilt and sells that quilt at a local craft fair for a tiny profit. Not a huge infringement. But if its OK to sell one, you might think maybe its OK to make more and sell them on ebay, or produce them by the thousands overseas and sell them at department stores for an even tidier profit (no matter whether the original designer had intentions of doing so.)
More questions, more questions. Copyright is a very interesting topic.

To play it safe, you will never see me post a photo here of a quilt and label it as "on commission." I might talk about commission quilts, but most of them are posted with just "the next baby quilt I'm working on!"

I get lots of ideas from ready-made quilts and use them sometimes in the quilts I design for my customers. But I'm not setting up a sewing factory in a Third World country to make hundreds of the same quilt. And I'm not advertising on the web.

OK...so here's a few thoughts to throw into the pot...

If the basis for your quilt is from a copyrighted pattern but you tweak a few things here & there....is it still copyrighted? My personal opinion is no.

What about the stitch patterns - Pantographs - that are used by long arm quilters? Are they copyrighted? If so...what about using that pattern to "sell" machine quilting.

And...what if you made a copyrighted quilt to a friend & she decide to sell it on e-bay because it wasn't her colors? (I would be so mad!)

Maybe there's clear & concise answers to all these questions...somewhere. Personally, I think all this is such a murky gray area. I hate it. Our quilting ancestors never had to deal with this!

P.S. You won't see me selling any of my quilted creations! I don't make enough to do that. Coming out of these hands are works of heart for family & friends.

I don't sell any of my quilts and I also think that if you make a quilt from a pattern which now a days all seem to be
copyrighted that you should give credit to the designer of the pattern! I really feel that if a person buys the pattern and makes a quilt to sell they should be allowed as long as
CREDIT IS GIVEN TO THE DESIGNER! I do feel it is wrong to make a quilt from a pattern and pass it off as your own design...........then I can see a PROBLEM! But when I look at all of these so called copyrighted patterns and then I see some blocks that were created YEARS AGO WHO REALLY OWNS THE BLOCK THAT YOU USED TO CREATE THE PATTERN...............I have also seen blocks that have several different names............and when the copyrighted pattern was produced the block was changed to another name in making the pattern...........
Just my thoughts on this..........
Red

I think it's a question of being sensible. As Red says, if you've used a design then credit the designer for it. i've sold many quilts, but have used blocks that are in the public domain or my own designs. Never a quilt pattern. There are a few books out there that show the thousands of quilt blocks that have been around for such a long time, somtimes as Red says, several names. No-one can claim to own those blocks!

DH has told me that recipes can be copyrighted. It's the way they're written that makes them copyright-able, so I imagine that's how it is with a pattern. So what does that mean with patterns? Well, maybe it's the way the instructions are spelled out.

If my understanding is correct, that would mean something like: although strip piecing is pretty much an open source idea, EB has a particular way of providing the information, so her info is copyrighted. Much the way that yes, the *blocks* are 'public' but the layout and directions for achieving the finished product is copyright protected.

The question about "how far will they go" -- look at the music download lawsuits. They went after little kids, single moms, people who had downloaded only a few songs. When a 12 year old gets a letter from Big Important Law Firm, they're going to quiver in their boots! Much like you or I might if we received a letter that the two quilts we made and sold, based on a particular pattern (which we bought!), were infringements and we'd better take notice. Besides, those attorneys are on retainer by the big companies. You'd have to spend $$$$$ just to defend the $ you made from the quilts.

Like I said, my understanding could be flawed (as it so often is!). It would be interesting to know if any suits have been filed and how they turned out.

Does anyone know how these copyright cases might be handled across international boundaries? If I bought the pattern in US, but made and sold them in England.....or vice versa. islay? any idea? Is copyright a local (country) or international (global) thing?

so many questions! gah!

Copyright laws are very interesting but also very vague when it comes to non-mechanical things such as patterns. I purchased Eleanor Burns' book on Tennessee Waltz which uses a 54-40 block and a snowball block (she was also on Simply Quilts yesterday showing this quilt design). She not only did not develop the pattern for either one of those blocks, but she is making a fortune selling her books on how to make the quilt. So, I guess that is where my question lies....is she allowed to do that and none of us?

I just looked up some information for a friend that designed a block that she wants to copyright. The process is very simple. You go to the copyright page, download an application, fill it out and send it along with your non-refundable $45.00 fee. So what if that block has been designed before? Is there someone at the copyright office looking to see if it was ever designed before. I hardly think so. The other thing that is interesting is the fact that her block had only 3 pieces to it and what quilter do you know can't look at a 3 piece block and not be able to make it without a pattern. I think she is going to be wasting her money.

I also know that there is a quilting website that takes well known quilters patterns, changes the verbiage a bit and calls it their own. So, where is the copyright police when it comes to that?

After reading all the posts on this, I want to place black-out shades on all my windows so no one can see what I am working on even though I don't sell my quilts, but they could say you "might".....give me a break! This is getting out of hand.

Developing a new technique for an old fashioned design is something else as well. I am making a Double Wedding Ring using a different technique from a book that I purchased. So, if I chose to make a quilt from that book to sell, I can't? What's the point of buying any of these books then? It always seems to be the little guys that are always getting hurt, not the big guys out there making the big bucks!

To me, its similar to the millionaires who can hide their money, but us peons pay taxes through the nose (even when you are retired and don't make squat!)

I had to just vent....sorry!

This is just the place to vent, Lucy!

As an aside, I've been scrolling thru Quilterscache lately looking for blocks for our Round Robin projects. While I am the first to thank Marcia for her wonderful resource for all of us, I notice a number of blocks look very similar and have different names.

So...does that mean I can take an Ohio Star block, change the color placement and give it my own name i.e. Prairie Star, then put this in a kit with fabric and sell it on Ebay? Maybe, but I'm not going there - legal footing is too shaky.

I think EB has her method copyrighted rather than the name of the block. Meaning, no one else can take her method, write a book about it and sell it. And her Delectable Mountains or the method on Bonnie's Quiltville is not the traditional DM block.

What I've been told by quilty people is that a pattern must be changed at least 20% either in technique or design in order to be considered original and not infringe on the pattern the idea came from. I remember not too long after Yellow Brick Road came out, Sicks and Stones and Turning Twenty jumped on the bandwagon. They are a bit different from YBR but I'm sure the ideas originated from it.

Kay

Well, I'm not adding any insight, cuz I just don't know! LOL However, I was going to note that at the Sister's quilt show last summer, I noticed quite a large number of the quilts on display had "for sale" tags and the price. Of course at the time I didn't notice if I thought that each quilt listed for sale was an original design. Maybe those who are going this year can check it out!

Everything I've read so far is very, very clear that you cannot copyright a technique, so changing the technique will not protect your from copyright infringement.

If you change the design, it has to not look like the original design. If you just change a few things around, this would be a derivative work, which the copyright holder owns the rights to.

As long as you don't publicly display the work or otherwise "publish" it -- that is, make it public, what you do with it is your business. Put it on your bed, give it to your sister, etc.

If you used a copyrighted pattern in a quilt you submit in a competition, the smartest thing to do would be to ask permission of the copyright owner. Putting the quilt in the show without even giving credit to the designer (as if it's your own work) would be, at the very least, extremely rude.

CMC

If y'all are tired of this subject, just pass on by.

I discovered another wrinkle in the "Do I need to purchase a pattern for each one I sell?" question. I was searching for a tote bag pattern and ran across this FAQ on a pattern website, which said, in part:

-----------------

Can I sell the bags I make from your patterns?

Not unless you purchase a cottage license from (business name). A Cottage License cost $100.00 per year, per pattern. Under the terms of the contract, you can make and sell as many bags as you would like for a period of one year. You must tag the bag with information that it is a (business name) pattern. A Cottage License can be renewed for additional years.

--------------------

So I did some Googling and found that a number of pattern publishers offer a Cottage License or they call it a Cottage Industry License.

Although each pattern publisher can set their own prices, $100 a year was common, renewable each year. $1000 for a lifetime cottage license. If you renew each year, and eventually pay for 10 years, they consider that a lifetime license and you don't have to pay any more. You do need to tag the items to indicate that they were made using the pattern in question. These were common terms that I saw on a number of websites, but I assume each pattern publisher can decide how they want to do it.

You have to be making the product yourself (a cottage industry), that is, you aren't setting up a factory or contracting with a sewing construction factory to make the item.

In my web searches, I didn't find any web pages about cottage licenses for quilt patterns, but you never know unless you ask.

CMC

Here is a link that might be useful: Creative Thimble FAQ web page

It all sounds so Big Brother. I don't see how anyone can tell me what to do or not do with something I've "made". I picked out the fabrics, batting, did the sewing etc. Then I don't like it, why can't I sell it if I want to?

Another example: I recently made a purse pattern from a pattern I bought several years ago and never made. I hated the way it was constructed. But I finished it and will probably give it away. If I made it again I'll change MANY things about it. So then it becomes MY pattern and I can sell the finished item if I want to. I have several patterns that I own now that are so similar there is definitely not even a 5% difference in them. Yet each is copyrighted? I don't get any of it.

wow, what timing! I am in the process of starting my own lil business embroidery and selling burp cloths. Want to have some fun with copyrights? Embroidery designs....yup...
gonna name my company, "rippin my hair out" hehehe
acutally, think we are good to go..
Lisa

Too bad they can't just come up with one set of rules that apply to everyone, isn't it? It would sure make things easier!

Donna

This subject came up in a 'getting published' class I took at Quilt Univ.
It is the same as plagiarism, if you copy it word for word it is copyright infringement. You can still write the same idea in your own words and it is legal.
Anthony Robbins made quite a bit of money with his seminars and none of the ideas were his. He was sued, and now he gives the same self esteem seminars, he just tells the audience that the material he uses are not his original ideas.
I learned 'lap quilting' from Gloria Bonesteel's books, the Cotton Theory comes along and she uses the same 'quilt as you go' method but she folds the seams on top and covers them with embroidery. I DID THAT 20 YEARS AGO!!!!
I just though of it as the same 'quilt as you go method'!!!!
If you use a pattern with the exact material, colors, and measurements I think it is infringement.
How many of us actually do that????? We always change things around.
And I have also seen the exact same pattern in separate books called different things.
If I came up with an idea to make and sell items from a pattern I would definitely take the time to contact and ask permission. Especially if I was going to advertise.
Rosa

If you use a pattern and use different colors, materials, change the measurements, I believe it's considered a derivative work and is still covered by the original copyright. Your work has to look completely different from the original - at which point, of course, it wouldn't be the same pattern, right?.

Regarding Cotton Theory, which is a technique, and copyright doesn't cover techniques, however, Betty Cotton has a PATENT for it. Patents are a whole 'nother story.

***My disclaimer here is that I've only skimmed the patent, so I'm just making my best guesses and I am not an expert on patent law.***

So this might just be the one case where writing a quilt pattern in your own words using the same technique might NOT be legal, under patent laws, NOT under copyright laws. (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, etc. etc.)

The technique described in the patent is very detailed and very specific to the way Betty Cotton does it. It's not "make a traditional quilt block, quilt the block, then join", it's "make and quilt each sub-unit of a block and join using specific folding techniques". So Rosa's technique of using Gloria Bonesteel's lap quilting technique, then joining the blocks with the seams on top probably does NOT come under the patent.

Since Betty Cotton sells books and patterns, obviously she means for people to use the technique, so I assume (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, yadda, yadda.) the patent gives her the exclusive right to publish books and patterns with that technique. Copyright laws alone would not do that. (I know from reading biographical articles about her that she had another business where someone stole her ideas/designs and she had no recourse because she had never patented them.)

In any case, copyright laws would also apply to Betty Cotton's printed patterns, books, and quilt designs. Her technique can't be copyrighted, but, she patented it!

In the case of the tote bag pattern I was looking at, it has some features that I've been looking for in a tote bag, but that I haven't seen in other tote bag patterns that I've looked at so far. If I wanted to sell them (including advertising, which would come under "publishing"), even if I modified the pattern somewhat (derivative work), I think I'd just pay the $100, put the name of the pattern on the hang tag and be done with it.

That particular cottage license allows you to make and sell as many bags as you want for a year, which, if you are serious about your cottage industry, is a reasonable expense to protect yourself legally.

CMC

Here is a link that might be useful: Cotton Theory Patent

My understanding is that even with all the legaleze that is sometimes added to licence fabric and various patterns is that in the end, the maker sold you the fabric or pattern and gave up that right when they accepted your money.
I have to get ready to go to a funeral, but IF I remember when I get back tonite, I will look this up. It is documented.

Just came across this link recently. U.S. Copyright Officehref> It does not seem that there is a lot about patterns and pieces made from patterns, but I have not dug very deeply into the site yet.