MamaPaige- While I can understand not wanting to see the laundry, each morning...I think this extra 'task' will start to make your kitchen work area, too crowded.

Even if you're the only one doing laundry right now...that will probably change, as the kids get older. Then it will be too crowded and people with clean laundry, trying to get through the cooking/prep area, without getting food on their clothes.

If you don't want to look at the laundry...maybe a curtain? Or would the stackable fit between the windows, facing the brick wall? Maybe a narrow countertop, against the bricks? That would give you a 'back hall' to access the ovens and desk, too.

One thing I can tell you for sure...Don't give up! It seems frustrating at times, but you will come up with a plan that functions well, looks beautiful, and still accomplishes everything you want to do, in the space. If I can do it with my little 100+ year old farmhouse plan...you can, too! :)

LL - you make a good point about larger kids running through the kitchen, although I do like this new idea of an expanded laundry room.

check this out - could be a nice place to put the dogs when we are out - I'd be reluctant to completely close off this niche to the kitchen as I think the extra storage space would be helpful to have handy. Also, I like the idea of having the light coming in from the window.

I've only looked at this plan for a second, but my first thought is if you put the laundry in the location you have now I'd almost be inclined to put a french door in at the chimney and close that space off. A French door would allow light to shine through from the window, but protect the kitchen from the sound of a running w/d. I'd then see what's above the space and see if there is any opportunity for a shute.

Then I'd get rid of the multi-purpose tall cabinet next to the stairs and put a desk under the window there. I'm not familiar with the whole first floor layout. Where does the traffic flow from on most days?

My last posting was too slow - you were already onto another rev with it closed off!
If you need to have laundry near the kitchen this is definitely a better route. W/Ds are not quiet machines. Our current house had the W/D in a niche off the kitchen and it drove me crazy because I couldn't do laundry when we were doing anything in there - it was just too loud. We finally put a wall up with a pocket door and it's much better. One issue we do have is the heat. It's radiant and tied into the kitchen. The mixture of the dryer running, the door being closed, and not being able to control the room's temperature makes it a less than optimal place for food storage. But I don't think you'll need to use yours as a food pantry, so that's probably moot...

I thought I read somewhere that there was a trend that was starting to have the washer and dryer in the kitchen area.

For the noise, couldn't you place the washer and dryer in a qua si cabinets with door fronts that open. I have my laundry room off my kitchen and LOVE having it so close by. Cabinet doors should shut off about as much noise as a regular door. Perhaps you can start another thread asking about those who have their laundry in their kitchen. I'm only guessing, you can't beat first hand experience.

Chris and Aloha,
thanks for your feedback.

I currently have my laundry at the base of the stairs you see in the plan - they sit right in front of the window and i too love having them so close as it allows me to multi-task.

my Miele pair are very quiet. I use them all the time and you can't even hear them. Too bad they aren't stackable... I think if we have doors on this room even if they are sliding we should be fine.

I am liking this new direction. One of my dogs can be a mischief maker so it would be nice to have a space to close them in when we are out of the house. That was one thing DH kept asking for with the other plans and I wasn't quite sure how to accomplish that.

If you want a stackable laundry pair that is very quiet, my LG really are -- one of the unexpected things I really love about them. Mine are right next to my kitchen and we never close the door -- a habit from when we had cats and there was a litter box in there. My cousin was here last week and walked by the open door and did a double take. She couldn't believe the washer was running but saw it tumbling.

MamaPaige- If you have a quiet washer/dryer...could you combine the clothes counter with the hutch? That way, you could leave the barn door open, most of the time and still store your dishes, near the dishwasher. But, you'd also have the countertop for multi-tasking...folding laundry, extra prep space, maybe extended desk area. Are you still planning to have the little desk, next to this counter, by the window?

My couple pennies, for what their worth. (Not trying to be negative.) Moving the ovens on that short fridge run significantly decreases your already small prep zone. You end up with about 30" b/w sink and rangetop. And with an upper to the counter on the other side of the sink, you've lost significant space there also. I'm aware that not everyone cooks like me, but 30" is a pittance in my world.

The abundance of uninterrupted counter space on the opposite side of the rangetop will be little used, IMHO, while the small spaces shoulder most of the load. Your previous plans didn't looked smooshed to me, but this one does.

I can't recall. Are you doing an integrated fridge? If not, you might feel a smidge claustrophobic in that small prep corner.

OTOH, you've got a cool and creative laundry/dog space!

Thank you all.

Breezy - I woke up in the middle of the night thinking the same thing (re: the claustrophobic corner). All along I didn't want to swing that sink around because of the loss of prep space and now here I've done it - begs the question if its time to kill the prep sink or just re-work again.

I am really getting fatigued by this plan. When we bought the house I had just assumed that we'd be taking the chimney out and I would have a large expanse of space. Now that I am working with all of these architectural constraints and with my wish list it is just very very difficult.

I worked on elevations last night right up until I went to bed .. the corner to the right of the fridge (as breezy pointed out) is tight to me. It's a built in fridge but not integrated.

30" would be a pittance to me too. I won't give up on this plan but I am just finding this so difficult.

I had thought of making the entry way in the butler's pantry, but with all the coming and going and the inability to pull the wall back opposite the outside side (because of the basement stairwell headspace issue) it would be a log jam. Already I feel the width of the doorway is too small (again with wall ovens moving over).

The cooktop / wall oven combo is what I really hoped to gain in this space, maybe it doesn't work?

In any event, please keep checking back as I am very grateful for all of your help and in great need of it.

I will post the elevations I did last night in case there is anything there.

One other thought... I had felt it important to box the wall oven/ fridge combo in with a stud wall because I had reversed the door swing and I didn't want the door becoming a problem...

Removing the stud wall would add several inches to that corner...something I'm thinking of.

okay, one other idea that i was playing with yesterday combined with the new idea from last night:

maybe not enough "standing in front" of the wall ovens for this to work?

Couple of approaches.

You really need to get rid of the double ovens. You have way too many requirements and must-haves and the facts on the ground won't' support them.

Use a range. Put the fridge in the corner (Liebherrs let you do this easily) , next to an undercounter second oven, then the prep sink next to that. Now you have at least tolerable prep space, and it's under a window.

In the alternative, try flipping the entire kitchen around. Put the range where the fridge is, and start the peninsula (with no sink) where the ovens are now. Put one sink (no more two sinks) either under the far window or between the windows. Now that sink is accessible for both wash-up and prep, but the range is protected. Add one more undercounter oven.

I have been watching this thread a bit and it got me to wondering what is beyond the walls of the area you are showing? Where does this area sit in relation to the rest of your house, bedrooms, living/dining areas, garage front yard back yard etc.

Hmm... in your plan of March 28 at 22:15, can you put the drainboard part of your sink over the trash pullout? The sink would then be right in the corner. Can that sink fit in a corner like that? I'm not sure how I feel about the double ovens in your last plan, seems tight back there. But, I do like the direction you are going with the new laundry space.

marcolo,
thanks... i have had this feeling desperation that i am holding on to all these requirement and wishes and that they would eventually vaporize one by one... i am seeing that happen.

in the mean time, I can't open my pots and pans cabinet wihtout the door falling off the hinge.

i keep thinking if spend just a little more time working the plan something will magically appear and it will all work out.

which corner do you mean to put the fridge?

i am sort of committed to wolf/subzero at this point.

rtwilliams and control, i was cross posting with you... will respond more when i get to work. but thanks!

I'm sorry to be debbie downer as well. But LOOKING at that corner with the fridge and ovens makes me feel claustrophobic -- I can't imagine how it'd feel. Even adding the extra inches from the stud wall wouldn't help. :-(

What if you broke up your oven stack? have the fridge at the end, an undercounter oven with COUNTERSPACE... and then found another spot to put your steam oven?

I don't know. The laundry room/dog room looks very appealing. But the trade-off in a claustrophobic work space would not be worth it for me.

look what happens when I open something before the kids get off to school... and return to it after they are off and gone... I see you've already noted the claustrophobic corner.

I don't think ending the kitchen with the ovens will work. Dead end bottleneck. Your aisle space isn't wide enough to make that work - there needs to be another outlet there. I just see bodies piling up. Remember those cute, little babes of yours are going to grow and get much, much bigger. I *think* you have 2, if I remember correctly... my experience is with 4 (ages 4-11) -think about after dinner clean up time. You WANT the kids to help clear the table/load the dishwasher/wash the dishes.... empty the dw... that's a lot of activity in a space a bit larger than a wide, dead-end hallway.

To be honest, I think you have alot of wasted space, but I don't recall your previous threads, so I don't know exactly what obstacles are permanent.

What is going in the nook with the 41.75" window? Mud room? Why not make that your one laundry / mud/ dog room room and use the rest of the space for your kitchen? Also, if you have a door / stairs going to the basement where you indicate the headroom issue, why do you need another door to the basement adjacent to the penninsula?

Sorry, I either haven't followed, or can't recall your other posts, but I'm confused about the overall space and how it fits into your home. What is that section in the upper right corner of your layout? What are the stairs(?) in the upper left section across from the area you're considering for the laundry room? Is the door on the right of the drawing to the rest of the house?

Oh my, I recognize this...it's the 'why can't I fit one more thing into my plan' moment. You come up with a great idea, but it throws everything else out of balance. I do it all the time! Then, someone on GW reminds me that not everything is going to fit, in my limited space :)

Prioritize! Easy to say, but not always easy to do. What do you really need, in the space? Is a separate laundry/dog room important, to you? Could you possibly put it, in any other location? Do they have to be combined?

This is when I start throwing out 'crazy ideas' and many don't work, but maybe a few will...can you move the laundry to the butler's pantry? Maybe hide your washer and dryer behind doors, on the wall, with the low headroom? Maybe use the counter opposite (under the window) for folding, but then have it for food/drinks, when you entertain? Can you add pocket doors on each side and keep the dogs in there?

Do you have a porch or area that could be converted into a mudroom/dog area? Would the laundry be better in that location? What about the basement, for the dog room? Too much trouble to get the dogs downstairs?

Can you keep the laundry in the original location (facing the stairs) and put it behind doors, there? Instead of the stackable, can you stay with your current washer/dryer and put doors, cutains, cabinets, in front of them? Do you have to have so much folding space?

Do you need a wall oven (I feel like I do) and what about dish storage? Where is your landing space, if you do have a wall oven? If you have someone sitting at the peninsula...where will hot things be set down, if the oven is by the fridge?

Can you put one oven under the cooktop and another in a different location? If you do that...where will you store pots and pans? See what I mean? Sometimes, no matter how great my new idea seems...it just won't fit in the space :)

I have been loosely following all of your itereations, as I know that I will be in your shoes in the near future. IT is sooo hard. And I must say I still love your old kitchen :)

So my quick suggestion is to keep the new space you've created as a laundry room, with stackable w/d. Use the area under the adjacent window fro folding space/storage. Then, move your double ovens into that space too, at the end of your counter run, but keep it separated by the sliding barn door. It's out of the main kitchen, but not by much. you'll still have your laundry close-off-able, which is essential in a busy family household.

I'd also make the area under the windows near the stairs into a family desk area.

I am terrible editing layouts, but here is my attempt:

Here are a few pictures, just to give you some ideas :)
{{!gwi}}From Snow White album
{{gwi:1571989}}From Snow White album
{{!gwi}}From Snow White album

think of how visually and practically "centric" your peninsula/island with seating is....I would remove the sink and make sure this spot is really appealing[no sink clutter]. Allow for 2 stools on each side,capability of people getting more social value from being there. Stool at frig end should be optional, and the bow out of counter at the end doesn't really work-leave it a straight run. The passage between kitchen and laundry spot[or dbl oven location] is wise, and therefore with a sitting spot on the inside part of peninsula will be greatly appreciated by the person juggling between laundry/cooking,etc. If you work with good materials and detail to this penins/island, then the other choices on the wall configurations with some small compromises will not be felt so much as impossible or disabling to your overall design.

Have been dying to get back on here and go through all these details... have been very busy at work. Will check in later -- love the idea of the undercounter oven so that I don't lose counter space... Thinking a combination of all these ideas could come to something.

Marcolo's on to something! With a 36" range, you could even go from a 30" wall oven to a 27" oven and still have more total oven space than you would with 48" and 60" ranges or two 30" ovens. That gives you an additional 3" on the fridge wall.

Next, lose the wall to the left of the fridge to gain another 4.5" for a total of 7.5" on that run. Just be sure to add a door stopper to the side of the fridge cab and you'll be fine.

I really like your laundry/dog room plan that you posted Wed, Mar 28, 12 at 22:15. This lay-out gives you another way in and out of your kitchen, which is a good thing, IMO. It also gives you a spot for a small, seldom used MW. Store your supply of MW popcorn next to it and you're off and running.

Mamadadapaige, keep trucking. You're so close to all this you're probably losing perspective, but you have lots of (great) space and lots of good options. BTW, I also love your original kitchen, in the pictures anyway.

One thing I was wondering about, with walling off a separate laundry room and placing a peninsula across the middle of the remaining space, was whether you have a large room nearby where you enjoy a feeling of spaciousness, thus freeing you to break up this good-sized space without losing something precious to the whole home. One good large room will carry a half dozen smallish ones and even make them feel special for being small, but they do need that big one.

Regarding fitting everything in, my attitude in approaching these things is slightly different from some in that I feel it's more important to achieve a great space that's a pleasure to work in and to just be in, and that also develops a really good synergy with the rest of the home, than to have the most efficient or complete kitchen possible.

With a big exception for ardent cooks, of course, whose every wish and whim should of course be indulged as much as possible. :)

I think this was brought up in an earlier thread, but can't remember for sure. Can your W/D go in the basement? When we bought our house, our W/D were next to the kitchen. We decided we could make better use of the space if we moved them to the basement. Also, can't recall how many children you have, but is the capacity of a stackable W/D the same as 2 separate units? I typically load up the W/D with as much as possible and would hate to be waiting for multiple loads to finish because I had smaller units.

Time to revisit removing the chimney. Removing the chimney would make the biggest impact and open up the whole space for the better. I would make that a priority, and then you wouldn't have to give up your other wants.

Or start by whittling things down and give up the ovens and prep sink.

Hi Y'all,
thank you so much for looking at this and helping me dissect it...

rtwilliams - re: your question of the kitchen. It is at the back of the house - the garage and backyard are what you see looking out the windows on either side of the range. You walk up to the side porch which is on the other side of the wall from where I am showing the fridge. Below is a pic of the side porch - up above it is a matching porch which we haven't used and I tried to talk DH into enclosing it to use as a laundry room but that went over like a lead balloon. It was the only place that was available for the laundry to go other than the basement. The windows on the laundry room side face a very narrow strip of land and then there is a little side street that leads down to our garage. The windows on this side of the house are very pretty - there are windows the same size directly above them in the master bedroom closet. The back staircase sees a LOT of traffic as does the doorway into the kitchen and the butler's pantry which leads to the dining room, den and living room. We don't go in and out of the basement all that much so at least that's good news!

Beautiful house!

I am going to second Hollysprings suggestion
to revisit the decision about moving the chimney.
It seems to me that it would be well worth the cost
and any extra effort dealing with structural support issued.
You are putting a lot of money into your gorgeous new kitchen.
Getting the floor plan right by removing the chimney
seems like the number 1 most important thing to do.

I love that porch! It's so pretty :)

As for the brick...I don't know if I'd take it out. It adds a lot of charm to the kitchen and I think you have plenty of space to get everything to work...if you think about what you really want/need, in the space.

I really like Home4all6's idea...but I'd take out the wall ovens and make that a corner run of cabinetry...and put the dishes in the upper cabinets. Extra plates or pots and pans could go in the lower cabinets (where the oven is shown) and the desk will work well, in front of the window.

If the windows are low, drop the cabinet down, in front of the back window...and the desk could be freestanding, so it won't permanently block the window. The papers and other clutter could fit in the multipurpose cabinet...leaving you an actual desk, not just storage.

Oh, and can you attach anything to the brick? I don't know if it would work, with your stools...but from day 1, I've wanted to ask you if you could put a plate rack with mug hooks, there. It would look so wonderful (IMHO), give you extra dish storage and be handy to the seating. Just an idea :)

lawjedi, very good point about the deadend and all the activity that goes on and will go on as the kids get bigger. I come up with these ideas and its like I am just hurling massive amounts of Mud (or whatever) on a wall and hoping some of it will stick. as LL points out is a later post, I am losing perspective -- just exhausted from this!

hi Dillyny, that 41-3/4" is a doorway into the dining room. That is the butler's pantry - it is very narrow and tight and not much I can do about it because of the headspace issue. if you are standing in the kitchen looking into the dining room, the area on your left has a panel covering the headspace for the basement staircase which is accessed in the kitchen. It isn't that there are two doors, there is just the one. sort of hard to convey that on a flat piece of paper... If any of you who are local to me north of Boston want to come over and take a gander at the architectural impediments I am dealing with, please let me know! I'll serve wine and cheese (or coffee and muffins).

pricklypear, I should put labels on my drawings! the stairs on the upper left go to the upperstairs - it is a backstaircase. The front staircase is very grand - the backstaircase utilitarian and as it were the more used staircase - this sees a lot of traffic because it comes down from an upstairs hallway into the kitchen whereas the front staircase comes down to the front door and the living room, etc.

The little room on the upper right is the butler's pantry and this leads to the rest of the house. The kitchen and laundry room are on three sides of the house and at the back so there is nothing beyond these rooms. The door on the right goes to the side porch (pictured above) and then out to the backyard and garage where we park.

dashing off will write more when i get back

LL- I was cross posting when you posted above. Thank you! (re: the porch) We like to sit out there in the summer. Its very pleasant. Also thank you for posting those gorgeous pics above of the laundry.

As for the brick - all along I've been feeling good about the fact that we talked about taking it out and decided against it and we would make the best of the situation. I have had images of gorgeous brick exposed after demo. Part of me worries, what if they aren't in good shape? I don't want to take any space to build a wall around them. I think my back up plan is to stucco it if it doesn't look good or try to clean them up. Who knows what we'll find.

After reading Hollysprings and Francoise's messages above I picked up the phone and called the contractor to discuss the chimney again. He is going to bring someone over next week to give us a firm price on removal and to try to assess if there are any structural members tying into the chimney stack (more than the disruption, I am concerned with opening a can of worms on having to do structural work because honestly we would have bought a different house if we thought we were going to be in this for the kind of money we'll be in it for if we run into all sorts of problems). I'm sort of afraid to go there. Also, we do need utility space. We've gotten used to it. Will post what is existing again. We have too much of it right now as opposed to the kitchen which is about 20% too small (or more like it too much of a cube.... decent amount of square footage but being that is square and has a major traffic pattern going through it it is problematic).

The chimney does provide a natural division to the space and I am REALLY liking the idea of the dog/laundry room.

I am going to make a list of my wishes and priorities and see where I can give up.

I know considering Marcolo's idea (and seconded by many others) to go the way of the range is a good one - I had my heart set on the giant pots and pans drawer though!! this is what I was after even more so than the wall ovens although I am super excited to have the steam oven (if i can manage to fit it in).

Re: the windows in the laundry room - the bottom of the casings are 20" off the floor. The "tallness" of them is very dramatic and beautiful not that you can see them right now as the previous owners built cabinetry in front of one of them and the washer and dryer is in front of the other. seems such a shame. i guess they had already figured out what I am now figuring out ... this is the kitchen of a million compromises!!

I'd definitely leave the brick...especially if you're looking at possible structural problems!

If you put a range in, instead of the cooktop...can you put your big pots and pans drawers under the dish hutch? Or on either side of the range? Or both? :)

I like the combo laundry/dog room, too. What do you think of Home4all6's idea? Without the oven there...it might just work out...and could you put the desk where you have the multipurpose cabinet?

Looking forward to seeing your new drawings!

home4all6 - thank you for the excellent suggestions. can't wait to play with the plan again tonight. all of your suggestions are giving me renewed vigor to keep going with this crazy kitchen!

herbflavor - you make some very good points and in addition with the aisles ways I can't really go too much wider with the island and thus whoever is sitting by the faucet doesn't get as good a seat-- I guess I was mildly concerned with this although given all the other compromises this was one I was alright with. DH has been going along quietly with my wish for a seperate prep and clean up sink but all along he has not been in favor of it. Of all the things I may have to give up on I think this one will be one of the easier ones.

lisa a... i am going to seriously consider the range - I'd be VERY bummed to lose the pots and pans storage right below the rangetop. I had less than optimal pots and pans storage in the last house and a horrific situation now so this is a key goal but again in terms of giving up things I could give up the big drawers below the rangetop over other things (such as seating for four).

Malhgold, we went and looked at washers yesterday. most of them are side by side units that can be stacked with varying capacities. I would need the larger capacity because I commonly wash the comforters and seem to do more laundry than you would think possible with only two kids. I think it would be hard for me to put the w/d in the basement. that is pretty high on my list of priorities although maybe it shouldn't be given how many other things I am having to give up. I like to take the baskets in the kitchen at night while the kids are sleeping and fold while watching my trashy Bravo shows. I also seem to be throwing a load in or switching a load while getting the kids out in the morning... seems like I am always working on the laundry - just one of those circular chores that never seems to end.

here is my existing space. we do use the utility area quite a bit and this is where the dogs sleep but it is too much space given my other desires for this space.

Just a quick thought about the range vs pot/pan drawers. Why not have a range and put large drawers next to the range for pots and pans? ( I'd put them to the right of the range in your orientation-other side of prep zone.) I love my deep pot/pan drawers, but having them directly under my CC matters not.

breezy, what size are your pots and pans drawers?

i need decent storage for things like colanders, tupperware, baking stuff too.

francoise, holly springs and rosie,
i had spent a bunch of time responding to you and then GW froze on me again. will write more later. went through my whole wish list, etc. i did call the contractor about revisting the chimney issue. not sure i want to give up the utility space it naturally provides but it would certianly be an amazing kitchen all opened up

One more idea...what if you go back to your original kitchen (that you had before this post) but will the washer and dryer fit (next to each other/not stacked), between the two windows? Could you fit in a narrow cabinet, across from them, against the brick?

If this would work, could you also add pocket doors, to keep the dogs in the laundry/baking area? Would a pocket door work, rather than a barn door? (Barn doors are cool, but you lose any storage on that brick wall.)

If this worked...you could keep the cooktop...and the big pots and pans drawers! :)

hi LL,
i think the machines are too deep. they are the same width as the wall space between the windows but when the doors are open they take up nearly all the space.

totally agree with the barn door - not as practical as i need to be.

will post a floorplan in a little bit - thank you for all your help and encouragement

I'm not any good at making a kitchen function. I've like the looks of all the drawings you've posted and think they could all make a lovely kitchen. I would love to have an old chimney in the middle of my kitchen. I'll admit it might not function very well but it could sure look good. Have you thought to use the chimney as a natural alcove for your range and truly let it be a focal point? I'm sure you've probably posted the dimensions so I'm not even sure it would work for you but it's an intriguing idea. It would only require a partial demolition of the chimney and you could used a really great reclaimed beam to shore up the brick above the opening. I did a quick paint job using the cabinet configuration you already had but another option would be to move the main sink into the "dead end" so that your clean up zone is completely separate from your cooking/prep zone.

With clean up zone separate....

Have you thought about putting a pot rack on your hood for the pans you use on a very regular basis? Maybe then you could get by with a drawer next to the range for your remaining pots and pans.

I've seen this done in various listings on Houzz -- you could check there to see if you like the look.

homeagain - very COOL concept of using the brick as a niche for the cooktop. I have seen these on houzz -- I love when an architectural element can be brought in.

we are having a chimney guy come next week (or at least a demo guy - not sure he will have the wherewithal to assess this type of idea but it would be worth asking).

beasty,
i will check that out. I have pots hanging on the backsplash but not on the hood.

I am posting a new plan so going to start a new thread - thank you so much!

Answering the question about my drawers, they are 36" wide. Top drawer face is 11" tall. Bottom drawer face is 12.75" tall. It's a lot of space. As you can see, the top drawer is at the same height as the 4-drawer stacks on either side. If you look at the 3-drawer stack across the aisle in my prep area, you can see that the second drawer lines up exactly the same. The two bottoms drawers of any stack would work as the same type of pot/pan storage.