My mom did that to me. She constantly complained about Dad to me, like I was a best friend rather than a daughter.

When I was 18, we were visiting my aunt (my mom's younger sister), and she heard me say something sarcastic to my dad. She lit into me but good. It made me stop and take a good look at myself. Once I got away from home, my attitude toward Dad changed.

I'm really glad my aunt yelled at me, even though it was humiliating at the time.

Good topic, bestlawn.

of course there are always 2 sides and and often complex feelings...

i do hope the dd and grandma can come to some resolution, maybe not now, but down the line...she'll have to eventually try and sort her feelings out. pehaps having lunch with your neice and the grandma, and let her vent her "real" or imagined feelings out...

Mallory, I truly feel sorry that your niece's brother passed away without the truth being known about what kind of man he was. I would like to extend my sympathy to his mother and your niece and his kids as well.

When my ex and I divorced I made sure my dd knew he and I were getting a divorce; not he and she. He had liberal visitation and they were always allowed to see each other any time they wanted. My best friend at that time and her dh split up about the same time as my ex and I did. My ex and I were the ones who introduced them. They were both friends to both of us. My friend belittled her ex in front of her dd a lot. She talked about how rotten he was and told her dd that he didn't want anything to do with her. I tried to talk to my friend about what she was doing. She was being spiteful to her ex and her dd and her ex were paying the price. I know absolutely for a fact that he wanted to see his dd and my friend made up stories to keep them apart then would tell the dd that it was he who didn't want to see her. It made me ill and it caused me to not want to be around her anymore. After being best friends for years we went our separate ways. We saw each other a couple of weeks ago after being apart for many, many years. I asked her if her dd ever saw her dad and she told me no. She said he had no interest in talking to her when she tried to contact him a few years ago. I don't know if that is true or not, but I do know he would have given anything to be with her when she was a little girl and my friend and her lies were the reason they didn't. It still bothers me today. My dd and her dad are close. My friend's ex was a good man and a good dad and it hurts me so much to know they should have had a close relationship too, but didn't because of my friend's lies.

Linda

What a bitter person to do that to children.
I have seen it done more than once in my life.
There are always 2 sides to every story. Always. The thing that amazes me is its always two people who were once so madly in love.
No one person is ALL to blame in a relationship....its often an equal share.

(((Mallory))) I'm sorry your heart is hurting now.

I forgot to add that I am grateful my oldest DD doesn't do this with Hunter and his Dad.
She knows he might not have been the best husband but he is a good Dad.

As Susan said there is always two sides to every story. There is also the true and the made up.

I grew up with my dad, my mom didn't have to tell stories after they divorced. I still dislike him more than anyone I know. I don't plan on attending my Bible thumping criminal of a father's funeral either and most people will only know rumors. We told very few of his two faces. I'm sure some will know the truth and some will shed some tears. No one can convince me to pay my respects to a man who deserves none.

I see no point in granny demanding her grandchildren go to a funeral of a person they feel no attatchment too. Even for her sake. They feel no respect for the man, even if you wish to respect him yourself. If they want to come to terms in the future, they can sit down with grandma and work it out. Love her, hug her and make her feel needed but they have their own feelings for their ol man. Going to a funeral of a person they feel disrespectful for may only fuel their fire. Bestlawn maybe you know the truth, think it's the truth or just being sentimental right now but I seriously doubt they will suddenly change their minds overnight. I know your talking about HOW their mom talked him down, that's disappointing. Does it change the truth though? Even if they come to forgive him, they don't really care for him.

I'm only commenting on what I've read. There is bound to be more to this story too.

Toni, I don't really understand. Does it change what truth? That she talked him down? That he really was the person she said he was? That he really was not? That they think he was? That they are not going to the memorial? What truth are you referring to? And forgive him for what if they don't know why they hate him? They are not able to say why. I agree with you there is bound to be more to the story, but I kind of think it beside the point of my purpose for telling the story. My hope is that people will think twice when doing this to their children. It hurts the children, not the spouse. Yeah, maybe I'm just emotional right now.

My neighbor's ex-husband died a few months ago. They were divorced a long time (maybe 20 years) but he visited and spent time with their children, who are now adults. I was speaking with her, and she said their older daughter took his death the hardest, because she had known him all her life, and remembered the early years "when things were good". I felt especially bad for this girl and thought about how tough her life has been. A good early life, then her parents split up and she was raised in near-poverty by "a single mother." As they say, walk a mile in my shoes. . .

Mallory, let me hug you - ((((((Mallory)))))!

Family estrangement is not actually about any one given incident, but an accumulation of negative feelings and lack of communication.

The estrangement is a drama, and for many, not speaking to certain family members is part of the act - a way to put an end to the feelings.

It is a highly dysfunctional method of coping and seems like the easiest way out, but a LOT of people get hurt - it's never an easy thing to understand.

I am sorry this bothers you so much, Bestlawn.

I have never really understood when people get hurt over who goes to what event, especially when it doesn't effect them directly. In the past family members have refused to go to certain events, and the days up to and during and after were atwitter about the people that are missing. Seems like a waste to me.

There were over 300 people that showed up for FIL's "funeral". Talk about a shock! And do you know who MIL always brings up in reference to it? The one DISTANT relative that was not able to come (he had troubles with his colostomy bag or some such). She can't tell you who WAS there, but she sure as heck knows who didn't show up!

It is sad that these kids did not know their father, and that they won't have a chance to say good-bye later if they change their mind. But don't have hurt feelings or a heavy heart over it, that is taking on pain that is not yours to bear.

(((hugs)))

Dances.

That's very sad for the children-for everybody involved, I guess. Will there ever be a chance for peace in the world if there can't be within families?

bestlawn in a perfect world families would keep lines of communication open. as good as this man was, if he didn't try or fight for visitation, then you can't blame his dd for seeing the side she saw.

as much as dh's nieces love their bio-dad, i'm sure they only remember the step-dad who adopted them, took them into his home and helped them grow and become the women they are today. dh's brother has only one true love in his life...the next bottle.

You all bring up very good points, and I know you're right. For me, it was more about being there for the ones they do love. Their grandmother lost her son. Their aunt lost her brother. Both of these women have been good to them and showered them with love and support all their lives. There is nothing they wanted that grandma did not provide, and I mean everything from new cars to houses and property to paying for their college education. For his daughter, college education included med school. I could never turn my back on someone who loves me so, much less make her cry and plead because her wishes mean nothing to me. People attend the funeral services of those they never met in order to support the bereaved they care about, so I didn't see the grandmother's request too much to ask.

Dances, I know you're right also in much of what you say, but I doubt who did not attend mattered to her. She wanted her grandchildren with her. When I walked in the door with the program books, she took one glance and completely lost it. She melted into her daughter's arms despite having already seen the completed version on the computer. Times like this, we want our loved ones close. Her problem the other day was she feared she would have so little support. You're really right about it not being my pain to bear. What she was going through is what bothered me so much, but I shouldn't have taken it to heart.

I'm delighted to report all the grandchildren were in attendance. The daughter arrived half an hour late, but she was there and grandma was happy. My niece was the pillar of strength for her mom. She took care of everything, as well as hosting everyone at her house for dinner after the service. All is well that ends well.

Thanks for your responses and condolences. It's not a one size fits all kind of situation, so I know you're right that the children are entitled to their feelings, too.