Someone (sorry I forgot who) pointed out that Inset = Full Overlay with Face Frame in terms of space. Meaning if you have a face frame on the cabinet both Inset & Full Overlay use the same amount of space and you are not losing anything. The only time there is a difference is if you are doing "frameless" cabinets. Frameless (no face frame) is not possible with inset.

Most the cabinet makers and cabinet companies I've spoken to primarily do 'with frames' ..so if the person who posted that was correct ..then you do not loose any space with inset.

Sorry, but whoever said full overlay & inset have the same amount of space is incorrect.

Inset doors & drawer fronts sit inside the frame; overlay doors & drawer fronts sit outside the frame. This means you lose around 1/2" to 1" of depth in your cabinets & drawers. With overlay, you can use the space a face frame takes up everywhere except at the edges of the cabinets...I speak from experience b/c I utilize that space in my cabinets! With drawers, the drawers are a bit deeper with full overlay...again, 1/2" to 1" deeper (depending on the thickness of your frame & how the drawers are constructed).

As to your KD's suggestion - several people have done that here and from what I've seen they look fine. Keep in mind that the most visible cabinets are the upper cabinets. Base cabinets are often "hidden" by islands and people working in the kitchen.

Here's a thread that has some images of inset top and overlay bottom cabinets. I think it looks great, and never noticed until it was pointed out!

Here is a link that might be useful: Inset top/overlay bottom

Thanks all. I think this is making me more comfortable mixing it up. Don't want to lose the space--this is NYC after all.

As far as depth, for a given cabinet box size overlay cabinets stick out farther into the room than inset cabinets. I feel this only really makes a difference in uppers, but I would recommend 13" uppers with inset. The fronts of the doors will be 13" from the wall. With 12" overlay the fronts of the doors are 12.75" from the wall (12" cabinet plus door thickness), and the interior cabinet space is basically the same.

How much space is lost depends on how they are made. The vertical clearance is likely to be the same using inset or full overlay - because the clearance to the frame is the same. The width of the drawer is also likely to be the same.

All of this stuff is supposed to be standard, but isn't really. A few makers build-in the drawer front to the drawer - like a piece of furniture. Some use the same size drawers and move them back further into the cabinet. If the drawer length is different, you'll lose about 3.75% of space. I have more waste than that in most drawers by having organizers with excessive clearances.

I took some actual stuff with me to cabinet displays - largest hand tool, big pot, big plate - to try out. For me, if it fits, it works.

Choose whichever you like and can afford.

The size of the drawers in inset and full overlay cabinets are the same. The width is fully a function of and dependent on what drawer slide is used. Some brands take more space and some less. The same is true for the height of the drawer. Undermount slides take less room from the width of the drawer, but more from the height. The drawer front (the part that shows on the front of the cabinet) has no bearing on the size of the drawer box itself. An overlay drawer front will be larger than an inset front, but the drawer itself will be the same size. As for the depth (front to back, or how far into the cabinet the drawer goes), that does not change either. All slides I've come across come in 3" increments, with the standard for 24" base cabinets being 21". The same drawer slide will be used for an inset drawer as for an overlay drawer. A 24" slide will not fit in a 24" deep cabinet (because of the space taken up by the back and face frame of the cabinet; in other words, the interior dimension of a 24" cabinet is actually less than 24"). The 21" slide is used for both styles of cabinet, with the same size drawer.

As was pointed out above, you should specify 13" wall cabinets for inset style. That will give you the same amount of interior room without actually appearing any deeper that the overlay style. 3/4" overlay doors will actually stick out a full inch, due to the hinge.

I have beaded inset cabinets in this house. A couple of my drawers and surrounding upper frame look just awful. I think it's partly because the drawer is not deep enough (top to bottom) and silverware ends up banging the drawer when it doesn't sit down deep enough. Then there's the problem of the drawer not covering the frame because it's inset.

You do lose space. My 36" 3 drawer pot/pan cabinet---the drawers are actually only 31" on the inside. Significant amount if it's a small kitchen. Not as big of an issue for me as the dings. Do love the look of the inset and the frameless inset.

I am really leaning towards inset on uppers and full overlay on bottom, which will be mostly drawers. I've seen lots of examples on Houzz and I think they look great. Wouldn't think twice after the beautiful pics I have seen.

"Then there's the problem of the drawer not covering the frame because it's inset." That's not a problem! That's the very definition of inset!

I hate beating this to death, but the 36" cabinet with interior drawer width of 31" will have an interior drawer width of 31" whether it is inset or overlay. The only way around that is to go with frameless cabinets. And the height of the drawer won't be any different, either. You need to specify the height to what you need, whether it's inset, overlay, or frameless.

Another thing to consider is that if you go with custom cabinets, you can have one face frame that covers the whole cabinet run, instead of individual face frames on each cabinet. You can gain quite a bit of interior width this way. Say you have 3 cabinets next to each other. With individual face frames you will lose 9" of interior space to the face frames (1-1/2" for each side of each cabinet). If you put just one face frame over the 3 cabinets, you will lose only 6" to face frames (1-1/2" on each end and 1-1/2" x 2 in-between the cabinets).

Cat builder- yes, I know that :-) You misunderstood me.

My point was that the drawer does not cover the dinged up frame because it is inset whereas it would if it was full overlay.

I have done 2 custom kitchens with inset cabs. In both cases I had the stiles made as narrow as possible and this kit I also have no toe kick except for the sink. Thus my kit drawers are really deep.
That said I think it is only worth the extra cost and very slight loss of space if the period look is important. Then it is all worth it.

Cat builder- so in order to gain those extra inches of width on the drawers on the bottom...

If you go with full overlay-- you must have frameless? Do I have that right?

Or otherwise I will gain nothing over my inset?

Thanks.

Full overlay on any cabinet has doors or drawer fronts about the same width as the cabinet. A framed cabinet still has a 1.5" frame BEHIND the door - top, bottom, left, right AND between the drawers.

This really hurts the drawer space between framed and frameless. (using an 18" wide cabinet as an example, on bigger cabinets, the percentage would be lower)

Without the frame, the usable width for a drawer is about 1.5" wider and around 1.5" taller (sometimes a little more) for a frameless drawer. So, you get about 45% more square inches on a small drawer in the same amount of cabinet area.

If you use Framed Cabinets, you might lose about 3-4% of the available drawer space in going inset over framed full overlay.

hth

Personally, I think inset above and frameless below (for drawers) is the best of both worlds.

Assuming that you like inset. :-) I wish I'd known to ask my KD to do it for me. After all, I'm *looking at* the uppers face on!

--Lee

Red lover, you can have full overlay with framed cabinets. It won't give you any more interior space than inset framed cabinets, though. Think of it this way. You can turn any inset drawer into a full overlay drawer by just screwing on a new, bigger drawer front. They use the exact same drawer boxes. So, yes, you won't gain anything by going full overlay on the bottom if you don't switch to frameless. Except the cost, of course. There is quite an upcharge for inset. That is the reason to do full overlay on the bottom, not because there is any space advantage (because there isn't).

But is there any such thing as frameless, full overlay?

And is there a space advantage then?

Hi Red Lover -- Yes, there are lots of options for frameless full overlay.

Here is a picture of a full overlay frameless base cabinet (from IKEA):

{{!gwi}}

Ahh. Gotcha. Thanks.