try hard, i think you should not forgo your breakfast bar or your ability to use it comfortably. if i understand the way you describe it, the 12 inch overhang will only protrude into the doorway, not the actual room, and then only by 3 inches. it really sounds fine to me. unused, sitting there with stools tucked, i think it will be seen as the kitchen. whether you use the 9 or the 12, your actual bodies or backs of stools will probably graze the family room but so what? counters and bars are often transitional spaces to the next room anyway, and i think that either way it will be fine and you will enjoy it so go for the 12! by the way, former owners of my house made the counter bar extend 11 inches which we find comfortable for knees. however, they removed the wall between kitchen and dining room and the entire counter protrudes the 11 inches into our small dining room which completely throws off the center of the room and makes the stools way too close to the dining table. i can't gut the whole space, so i live with it and really love using the counter bar. your situation is far far better and i bet it will look fantastic. good luck and let us know what you decided.

18" is the "standard" distance b/w countertop and cabinet bottoms OR the bottom of your light rail, if you have it. Yes, you can buck the standard and go with a shorter distance but, be sure all small appliances you might use there (not just "plan" to use there) will fit. It doesn't really matter why the standard is 18", the fact that it is a standard means that manufacturers use it when designing small appliances for kitchens. My KA mixer, for example, is 17" tall... The other thing to keep in mind, as TresGirls also brings up, is that you need room to work under the cabinets...and if it's too short a distance you will be "cramped" when working there. If you and your entire family are short, it probably won't be a problem, but if any of you are at all tall (or even average height), it may very will be an issue. Do you plan to sell in the next 2 or 3 years? If so, then I would think twice about lowering the cabinets. OTOH, if this is your "forever" home or you plan on being in your house for many years to come, then do what works for you and your family. However, this is what I recommend you do: Measure the height of the tallest appliance you might use on that counter. Add 1/4" for "wiggle room" This is the minimum distance you need b/w the top of your countertop and: If you will have light rail on the bottom of your cabinets, then it's the distance b/w your countertop & the bottom of the light rail (and remember to account for the light rail in all upper cabinet measurements & installation!) If you will not have light rail but will have undercabinet lights, then it's the distance b/w your countertop and the bottom of the cabinets OR the lights...whichever will be lower. If you will not have light rail or undercabinet lights, then it's the distance b/w your countertop and the bottom of the cabinets. Even if you think you won't be pushing the appliance under the cabinets, you must still have room for them under the cabinets. It is very difficult to confine your work area to the 12" or so in front of the upper cabinets. You will at some point need to move your mixer (or other appliance) out of the way so you can work and you don't want to not be able to b/c it's too tall to fit.

I don't know what you intend to do regarding backsplash height (that's the distance b/w the finished counter and the bottom of the upper cabinet and light rail), but here's what I usually tell people when they're considering the height for their backsplash. The standard is 18"...regardless of the reasons why, it's still the standard.. How this affects your kitchen.... Refrigerator and other tall cabinet heights...Because wall cabinets are meant to be mounted at a standard height, cabinet manufacturers take this into account when designing tall cabinets. Tall cabinets are designed to be the same height as the installed wall cabinets so the tops all line up. When you change the height a wall cabinet is installed at, it affects cabinet top alignments. With the refrigerator you can usually mount the upper cabinet a little lower OR order a shorter upper cabinet, but be sure you don't make the alcove any shorter than 72" tall b/c newer refrigerators are 70" to 72" tall (and seem to get taller each year!) With other tall cabinets like oven cabinets and pantry cabinets, they're a standard height and designed so they're the same height as the wall cabinets when those wall cabinets are installed 18" above a 36" high counter. If you have custom cabinets, this may not be an issue b/c your cabinetmaker can adjust the cabinet heights. But, if you are using stock or even some semi-custom cabinets, you cannot change the height. You can often get taller cabinets for use w/36" or 42" tall wall cabinets, but not shorter for 30" mounted lower. But, even those that are taller are also adjusted based on standard wall cabinet heights + an 18" backsplash height. Small appliance height...Small appliance manufacturers often design their products to meet this 18" standard...for example, my KA stand mixer (bowl lift) is around 17" and many coffeemakers and blenders are just short of 18". So, you need to be sure you have room under the cabinets + light rail to fit those appliances. Small appliances... Keep in mind that if you're using an appliance on your counter, you must be sure you have room under the base cabinets to move that appliance around easily. Don't, for example, tell yourself you're only going to use it in front of your upper cabinets so you don't need to worry about its fit. In reality, you will be moving things around on your counter while you work and most likely your appliance will be moved under the cabinets at some point. You don't want to tear your light rail off or damage it (or the cabinets). Also remember that "standard" upper cabinets are 12" deep + 1" for the door...so they stick out 13" over your counter...leaving you only 12" or so of workspace in front of the upper cabinets...not much room to work in by itself! (If you have deeper upper cabinets...say 15", there's even less counter frontage in front of your upper cabinets...3" less, so 9".) Vertical workspace... Another consideration is vertical work...

Your layout is difficult to read (too small & illegible), but here's a couple of comments Island seating...you have 5 seats lined up on only one side of the island - like ducks sitting in a row. This arrangement is not very conducive to conversation, it's more like eating at a diner counter with strangers. With this many seats, I would see if there's any way to have a seat or two on at least one of the sides. It may mean a shorter island, but if you have at least 42" of prep space on the non-Cleanup Zone side, you will have enough prep space. You need landing space for the refrigerator no more than 48" across an aisle. What would really help is if you could tell us a bit about you and your family and how you plan to use the Kitchen. Please check out the following FAQ threads (they're also in the "Read Me" thread.) Good luck! How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information itchen Design FAQ Threads: FAQ -- Kitchen work zones, what are they? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they FAQ -- Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc FAQ -- How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage Looking for layout help? Memorize this first. http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first