On solar jobs here in so cal, we install the 4x160 with a SunTouch controller. Depending on rebates, that comes to about
$2100. You can go with the 3.2 VF and lose the controller but the programming needs to be done by someone who has done it. It's not your ordinary job as the 2 story solar will cause issues with certain aspects of the pump.

The 3.2 is a huge saver. Most report a minimum of $50 less on the bill in the winter and in excess of $100 less in the summer. Total household usage determines final savings due to our tiered billing.

My personal thought is people don't understand solar. They feel it needs to run all day which is not true. If you desire bath water, sure it needs to run all day. Most solar pools do not cover at night so people feel they need to heat to 90+ in the day to maintain a low 80 the next day. Seems a bit twisted when you consider the power your consuming to maintain that 90+.

We're get our fair share of sun but in reality, sun to heat a pool happens around 8am in the middle of summer and later in the spring and fall. So, if you figure 10am on average to about 2 or 3pm, you can run the solar in those hours at a rate way less than you typical one speed pump. The remainder of the pool volume can be filtered off peak (if you have that yet) before the solar kicks in everyday. Consumption of power will be considerably less but not as much as the pump is capable of w/o solar.

Thanks repair_guy. Sent you direct email.

You may prefer to use a 4x16 instead of the full variable speed with second story solar. We initially installed the variable speed (which we really liked) - but the pump was very sensitive to pressure changes - and with the type of solar panels we used (Heliocol) we keep having problems where the pump would sense pressure changes in the system and shut down.

Pentair helped us for a few months try to resolve this and we ulitmatley decided to swap out for the 4X16 (we already had a controller so that wasn't a factor for us in the decision) - no problems at all since the swap.

You may be just fine with the VF model - but we were bummed to pay the extra for the VF and then have to swap (no price refund from Pentair - but at that point we were just grateful to have something that WORKED without having to buy another pump!). Doing the math in our area we think we save at least $50-100 per month year round over a standard 2 speed pump. Our pool has been up and running for about 18 months and I think the pump has already more than paid for itself (comparing to my parents/friends bills on standard pool pumps confimed this for me).

Sorry, long post. Skip to the last paragraph for a possible solution on Intelliflo variable flow pumps working with (2 story) solar.

When I moved into my house last year (Aug Â07) I installed a solar heating system for the pool  Heliocol "panels" on a 2 story house. A few months later after seeing some pretty large electric bills, I decided to invest in a new pump. I settled on the Intelliflo variable flow (not variable speed) pump. I thought everything was fine.

Last weekend, while checking the system I discovered the solar bypass valve was disabled (would not divert water to solar panels when solar controller activated). I enabled it and the problems began  each time the valve "opened" (I thought), the pump ramped up, alerted, and shut off. Some investigation on the web yielded this (and other forums) suggesting the variable flow pump and second story solar systems were a problem.

I had the pump installer out today and he found my problem and also made an adjustment that could help others. My problem was that the solar bypass valve was installed backward. In other words, the "on" position didnÂt divert water to the solar panels; it completely closed the flow of the system. This pressure increase caused the pump to do exactly what it was supposed to do, shut off.

After the actuator valve was reversed, and the "on" position diverted water to the solar panels, the next adjustment was needed. The variable flow pump has a feature that allows it to detect when the filter needs service by detecting a significant pressure change (which would normally be caused by a clogged filter). Of course pushing the water up two stories might also cause a significant pressure increase. By adjusting (increasing) the "Clean Filter Pressure" the pump wonÂt alert when the solar kicks in. Depending on your system, you may have to adjust the number so high that it defeats the purpose of the "Clean Filter Pressure" feature. Bottom line  service your filer regularly and you wonÂt have a problem.

Mark,

Sounds like you had a tech out there that actually has taken time to learn this pump. That is exactly what is needed. There are many solar jobs that have the valve in wrong and when it turns, for a brief second, it dead heads the system rather than allowing even flow into the panels. Once past that, yes, you need to determine the max pressure on the system when that panel charges and adjust the pump accordingly, That is usually around 30. It's amazing how many guys still don't get that feature. The system will work best on a VF if you get it going early in the am before there is a chance for the panels to call for heat. If you try to prime that pump with the solar open, it can be tedious. The key is to trick the pump into thinking it's primed and that is done with increases in the gpm and dragging it out.

All,

Thanks for the tips. I have an IntelliFlow (VF - Variable flow) with solar on 2nd story also. I can get the pump to prime just fine when the solar is off (30 secs or less), and have things running at 15GPM from 8am through solar time (pump runs fine when solar toggles as long as it stays running, and smartly adjusts its speed up as needed for moving 15GPM through solar at +5PSI increase), but if I turn the pump off manually during the PM (solar on), and turn it back on again, it won't prime. I know its not going to work when I hear the pump "pulse" to max speed for a second, or when it "resets" from mid speed to low speed (roughly every minute). I have a working system, but its still annoying that a $1300 pump won't prime w/ my solar turned on. Maybe that is "just the way it is"?

I have 1.5" intake from the skimmer, and 2" out through a DE filter and pool heater (I never use), with automated solar bypass valve on Compool controller w/ 7 panels on a 2nd story roof at about 30-degree angle. (bottom of panels is probably 20 feet, top might be 25 feet.) Everything is 2" except the in-ground skimmer intake. I just cleaned the DE filter (just in case).

I replaced a 1HP Max-E-Glass (1.65 SF) pump that was running at max speed (3750RPM, chewing up lots of power), but was generating about 30PSI (@filter) with solar on, and about 25PSI (@filter) with solar off.

OK, for my questions...

At "max speed" the pump only moves about 50GPM @ 35PSI on the filter (solar OFF). This is using the manual mode for
indexing GPM/RPM and PSI. Is that "within normal range" for a setup above?

I noticed when the pump attempts to prime, it only ranges between about 1500RPM and about 2400RPM. The solar system needs about 2600RPM (when it is on) to "prime" to 15GPM @ 20PSI. (It then settles down to about 2200 after the air is out of the panels.) I can test this by starting the pump with solar OFF, then manually turning the solar on and watching the RPMs @ 15GPM. I suspect it won't prime because it is trying to get a "clean" 15GPM, and it "gives up" too early at 2400RPM. Is there any way to bump up the max speed it will try? Does it base the max speed/flow on the manual setup values? I played with the max Priming Flow GPM and it doesn't get anywhere near that!

I also tried extending the prime time to 15 minutes, but it seems the ramp-up/down cycle loses too much momentum and doesn't actually make enough progress, so it eventually gives up - just takes longer to fail. I currently have the max priming time at 5 minutes given the warnings in the manual.

In trying to "reverse engineer" the programming, it seems the system likes to get to 15GPM (its minimum running flow) to consider itself primed. Does that sound right?

Any advice appreciated. Its SO CLOSE to working - if only it would rev to 2600 RPM or so, I'm pretty sure it could prime when the solar is on.

Thanks!

JohnR

From the man who invented the pump.....

"When using IntelliFlo on a 2 story house what you want to do is lower the prime flow to as low as possible. How the pump primes is not common sense... adjusting this parameter opens up the look up table and makes the algorithm much more simple to see a "true" or "positive" for the pump to attain prime. The second thing you want to do is adjust up your max flow for the panel i.e. if you are having trouble at 25 GPM try 26 etc. The hardest part of using the IntelliFlo in this application is getting the software to think it is primed... usually starting the pump in the controller before the solar is initiated solves this issue as well. It will take some trial and error adjusting but once you find the flows your system works best at... you can set it and forget it and pay dividends with the overall cost to operate."

If you need to restart while solar is activated, prime the pump with the solar off and then kick it back on.

You have an issue that is common but if addressed properly, it will work fine. Your max speed is limited by that 1.5 line. For your pool, I would have throttled down that pump from the "out of the box" 3HP to a 2HP and then program accordingly. That field adjustment needs done by a qualified tech and is usually a benefit of a paid installation. If someone installed it for you, you can call them back to do it.

Thanks for the info. I did a self-install, the local pool shops are really just about sprinkling some chemicals in the pool every week - and they don't do that very well! I will try adjusting to a LOWER max prime rate - yes, this is counter-intuitive!

I did get it to work (for now) by adjusting the water temp to the max (104 degrees), and making sure I gave it 15 minutes to attain prime. Its now able to attain prime (solar on) after a few tries (typically 3-5 minutes), but when the water warms up I'm not sure. I suspect I have fooled it into accepting a slightly lower flow rate as 15GPM.

I didn't know anything about setting the pump from 3HP to 2HP. This isn't documented/mentioned anywhere. I'm actually relying on features to control the duration, and setting the pool size unreasonably low to keep the pump running at 15GPM whenever it is on, so I'm not worried about the pump pushing up GPM unreasonably high to attempt a turnover. I'll need to look into finding someone who is both "authorized" and competent enough to make this fix.

Thanks!

John

I'm also planning a pool and I am not sure I understand the issue of the pump not priming. Does it not have a check valve so it will stayed primed after it turns off?

No, the pump does fine. It just needs a tweaking if you run high solar.

I personally thin if you have solar, and/or infloor, I would take a good look at the 4X160 AKA VF.

The pump isn't as smart, so it will run at whichever rpm you'd like.

I installed an IntelliFli VF two weeks ago and it ran great until I turned on my solar. It will not prime with my solar on and I have a single story house. I tried turning the priming gpm down to 30 and it will still not prime with the solar on. Based on what I read above, I'm screwed and now need to find a way to get my solar to go on and off with a timer so the solar only comes on after the pump has achieved prime and will run. Is there a way to trick this pump into thinking it is primed?

If you're still not priming, you need to drop the prime flow down a bit more until you find that spot as indicated in the post above. Then bump solar flow up slowly until you get the desired flow. If you are in prime alarm, you need to extend that time and I have not seen that number yet in your e-mail. Is it a prime alarm or a system block alarm That's two different things. If it is system block, you need to set another parameter differently.

The solar is not needing a clock. You will have better luck if the pump turns on first before a call for solar. Then, if the solar kicks in, it is a smooth transition.

I thought the 4x160 is the VS?

He has a VF

Problem solved. I dropped the priming flow all the way down to the minimum of 30 GPM and the prime time all the way down to one minute and it will still NOT prime.
Pentair sent out a guy on a warranty call and it will NOT work on my pool. He called customer service while at my house and after a couple minutes he said, "you need the right pump for the right job; we need to swap this out for a 4x160". I said, "no problem". He left and five minutes later he called me from his car and said he has a solution. He suggusted we set up the solar to run on a timer so it would only come on after the pump was running. I said, "perfect!". I had suggested that to the guys at Pentair, but I think they thought they could make this pump work.
The moral of this story is: This is a great pump and it will work for most applications. You might need to be a little creative, but it will work.