Ask the question at Duron - this is very important! I ran into this problem when I only needed an additional quart to paint an area & they warned me it would not match the gallons I had already used. I can't remember the color but it was in the TR family. Another very important factor in color matching is make sure the gallons of base all have the same lot numbers on the cans - the Duron people roll their eyes & say it doesn't matter, but I sweetly tell them not to just grab the base & match the numbers! A very great Duron mgr trained me well :)

Well after I posted this I felt kind of dumb like,"well of course they'll match!"

What's the point in mixing a sample quart if it doesn't match the potential gallon you're going to have made? A little off makes a big difference in paint world.

Something that DOES make me nervous is when you say,"make sure the gallons of base all have the same lot numbers on the cans" I had a to buy a quart to finish my kitchen (ended up not needing it) and for my foyer/hall area (used those!) and the numbers on the kitchen quart don't match the gallon. Grrrr.

So wait, you tell them TO match the numbers, right?

I just reread what you wrote about the base. What do you mean the lot numbers match? Not all the bases are the same color? Good grief.

Ended up not going today. Traffic is all backup due to construction. Hopefully get there tomorrow.

Oh wow.....this is way too precise for me :) I have painted for years and never had a problem that you speak of! The only time I had a problem matching was when I went to paint the same color on a wall that hadn't been painted in 10 years thus the sun had faded the color so I ended up painting the whole wall instead of a touch-up.
No need to do all this to yourself!!!!!

I have had many of these problems.

The Cashmere base that SW uses is different than their others. The formulas on all of my paints were changed from what the Quarts-to-Go showed x 4. Funcolors speaks of this on a post over in the paint forum. It's one that is showing the TR formula.

Also, the Ivoire I used has a tiny bit of red in the gallon that didn't show up on the quart.

Mind you, this is within the same company. When you do a color match from a different place, your expectaions have to be altered, a bit.

It's always best to do a sample of the base and sheen you'll be using, in a gallon size.

I asked the guy at SW the exact same question about 2-3wks. ago and his answer was not neccasarily. He said it depends on the color, that the machine basically rounds up or down if needed. I had them mix a sample of BM Filtered Sunlight and he said that the sample would have a hair more red in it than the gallon.

I hope I can explain this accurately: dyelots=lots= runs within the manufacturing process (of whatever - fabric dyelots, paint bases - peanut butter.) It is the controlled sameness within that "batch": everything should be exactly the same - every single mircro drip.
The lot numbers on the Quarts are not going to match the numbers on the Gallons, because they are produced in different batches.
The color formulas in mixing the Quarts is different then mixing Gallons - it is my understanding they do not always translate accurately (gal to qrts). Some or even many do.
Yes, you want the lot numbers on all the base cans to match. To compensate for slight, teeney differences - painters will mix together the gallons & paint from the for example 3 gallons of paint mixed together.
Base colors are different - but you wouldn't mix different base colors to achieve the same end result - color.
As to sampling mixed Quarts - I have always thought what's the point - if the formula is different from the gallons.
Sampling paint for that perfect color is frustrating ( that's why I have so many different paints:) - lighting in your home may change the look dramatically, which you know. Since turning a corner can produce a different look from the lighting - that is a good place to begin a new gallon.
Maybe the experts will explain this better.

Even if you have four cans, mixed by the same person into base cans from the same lot, it makes sense to mix them all into one big 5 gal pail. This is called boxing. If you've swatched with a quart and like the color, it is probably pretty safe to buy gallons and expect to still be happy with the outcome. But, I would box that quart into the gallons so you have one homogeneous color.

Not only will the quarts not be the "same" as the gallons, one should also be aware of the SW Color-To-Go quarts, which are made up using inexpensive base paint, and will not render an accurate sample.

Because paint machines (the things that shoot the pigments into the cans) are individually calibrated and need to be re-calibrated from time to time, you will not necessarily be able to go to a different store and get a good match for a color you bought elsewhere, even of it's the same brand. You might also have an issue getting the same color at the same store but at a later date.

When you look at base paints (those are the cans of paint without pigment) you will notice there are Light, Medium, Deep, Pastel, etc. flavors of base. Each company has a different recipe which is why you can't just take a formula off a can of SW paint and have it shot into a can of BM paint and have it be the same. Shoot the right pigments into the wrong base and you have a whole new color.

The exterior trim color on my last house was the result of just such an error. I ordered a green and it should have been mixed into a light base. They shot it into a medium base by accident. I ended up really loving it and I got five gallons of paint for free. But it was not the color I was originally after!

Here's another quick story....I used a pale blue on my DR walls, and the same color on the exterior ceiling of my porch. I tried to touch up the DR one day, was in a hurry and grabbed the wrong jar. Obviously, the exterior base was different than the interior base, so the resulting color was off....way off! I was all out of the interior color, tried to get a quart made to touch up the failed touch-up. We couldn't get close enough (wasn't the best paint store) and I ended up repainting the entire DR.

Wow.. lots of info here. Thanks everyone for taking the time to explain! I do get it now. Ha, I think.

I've decided I'm going to talk with the Duron guys when I get the sample. If I don't like what they're telling me or feel uncertain (also assuming I like and want to use the sample color) I'll go to the Ace store and have them match the sample board. So far all two of the three paints I had them mix up were perfect. The third was ever so slightly off because I didn't ask them to tweek it. Two of the colors were BM the other was Vista and I had them mixed into Ace paint. I think I'll be ok having them do a gallon later. I can always have them test it on the sample board before I leave.

I have a habit of never buying enough paint! I've gone through at least 4 1/2 gallons of ceiling color through my home and never thought to buy a 5 gallon since each room was painted at different times. They know me by name at the Ace store now. :)

Amysrq - Oh that DR story sounds like a nightmare. I know they say it's only paint, which is true, but the thought of repainting makes me cringe!

I got a sample of tobacco road from sw, then had it mixed in a gallon. The two were slightly different. But if I hadn't been looking for it, I probably wouldn't have noticed. I have to say I only have noticed this with the sw color to go quarts. When I buy a quart sample of bm paint, the paint always seems to match exactly.

It depends on the color. A quart is 1/4 of a gallon. If the gallon formula uses a quantity of colorant that is not evenly divisible by 4, the quart is going to be ever so slightly off from the gallon because the quart formula is going to round. The paint store can tell you which colors are going to have this problem and how far "off" it will be. For all practical purposes, even the ones they have told me are off have been very close to the gallon....much closer than any attempt I've ever had to colormatch a color from a different manufacturer. So if you don't notice the slight discrepancy between the chip and a colormatch in a different paint, you're probably not going to notice any difference between the sample quart and the actual gallon (unless, that is, you're using the quart to touch up a spot on a wall that's already been painted with a gallon -- that would probably be noticeable).

Heck, even getting the exact color from the exact manufacturer but in a semigloss base changes the color slightly from what's on the chip (the chips are based on a satin finish, I think - the semigloss always appears slightly lighter). I've long since given up shooting for precision in paint colors - as long as it's close, I'm happy.

Can you get a quart to match a gallon? Sure.

But you need more than just the formula.

Take a thoroughly dry, good-sized swatch and your formula from the quart can WITH YOU. It's the combo of swatch and formula that will get you what you want.

If you have both, you can expect the math and the swatch will enable the mixer to mix up into a gallon or even a five gallon.

Between the math and the eyeballs, your gallon(s) should match your quart when done.

Might have to shoot an extra shot of white (or whatever) to get the gallon to match the swatch from your quart - like other's have said depending on the color. But if you are buying your quart sample in the brand, grade and sheen that you ultimately want to use, it should work out.

Get all your quantity mixed at one time if at all possible. Boxing is a great idea too.

Gloss makes color appear darker -- not by oodles and gobs in general but with some colors the factor of gloss can make them appear quite different than less sheened samples.

I agree about Ben Moore. Excellent with consistency and accuracy.

I now am the proud owner of a Tobacco Road sample quart. :)

Looking at the little label they used black and magenta instead of raw umber (which if I remember from the other thread the forumal with raw umber someone had mixed at SW?) Kmcg's formula has brown and yellow instead of the black and magenta. I'm not going to get too bent on it at this point. As long as I open it and it's not blue or red ya know? Maybe this mix will work great in the bathroom I'm intending to use it.

I did ask them if the gallon would match the quart and they said yes. I'll take the sample just in case.

Also happy to say I was able to grab a sample strip that has SW Camelback on it. I thought that was a discontinued color? I couldn't find that one at the SW store.

Funcolors - Thanks for the info. What is boxing?

Amysrq explained it well,
Even if you have four cans, mixed by the same person into base cans from the same lot, it makes sense to mix them all into one big 5 gal pail. This is called boxing.

Definitely take your sample. Without it, all they know is what materializes in the can and in their opinion it's the color you asked for. It's all they can do if they don't have a Tobacco Road chip. The swatch you provide is their only visual benchmark.

You can arrive at the same color thru multiple combinations of colorants. The questions are: which combination renders the truest match to the original Tobacco Road color and which combination renders the most pleasing across the broadest spectrum of light exposures. Since all Tobacco Roads are *built* differently, they're all going to respoond in light differently too. Some are built better, or instead of better maybe I should say more balanced, than others which is why there's all the debate about what TR actually *is* or is suppose to look like. Some versions of TR are more balanced and truer than others.

Keep your camera charged so we can see where it ends up! I can honestly say, it is the one color I can look at day or night and absolutely love! Have fun!

Everyone on here talks about Tobacco Road being so beautiful. I'm just going to have to check it out for myself.

Has a cute name though.

I "tried" to like TR when I bought the quart but it was just too dark for me.....ended up with Plantation Beige which I love like I thought I would TR!!!

Thanks for pointing that out Funcolors. I somehow missed that on boxing! After thinking yesterday I realized I wouldn't be using this sheen anyhow so it wouldn't work. Seems like such a waste of paint since I only needed a tiny bit. Off it goes to sit on the shelf with the others.

Well here's the sample. I actually expected it to be a bit darker than what it is. It reminds me a lot of my LR color (BM Shelburne Buff) and my foyer hall color (Vista Mushroom Cream). Wondering if it'll be too blendy but that's another thread.

The color wasn't photographing well for me. I think it looks a little different/better IRL.
{{!gwi}}
{{!gwi}}

Shee, if you want something a bit darker, you could try SW Stonebriar.

It's very close to Ben Moore Wilmington Tan but has a tiny bit more gold in the formula. I tried them both in our great room and went with the Stonebriar.

It's mixed using a dark base but is the lightest of the dark (if that makes any sense). It's LRV is 43.

It would provide more of a contrast with your Shelbourne Buff. It reads a very warm tan.

Sheesharee, see, your question was not dumb at all! I'm so glad you asked it, as I've learned quite a lot from the responses. In fact, I think this is one of the most educational threads ever posted here, providing a wealth of information that I would venture to say most people don't have at their finger tips! Now we do, thanks to you! This thread will be filed in my favorites.

Thought you might find this interesting if you haven't already seen it:

Here is a link that might be useful: Going down Tobacco Road

Hmmmmm...
I could go into SOOOOOO much geeky detail here...it would make your head spin!!!

...tinters, colorants & formula's...Oh my!!

Yeah...a lot of the success of matching/scaling colors depends on a persons' experience. Another big factor is the capabilty of the tint-machines & the software running them.
Some tinters just can't shoot tiny qty's. of colorant.

We're kinda lucky...getting another new COROB tinter in early May. Not much $change from $15G's. These babies can really shoot some small increments!
VERY important for tweaking those real light colors!!

Faron

A little birdie tells me that lens has been around for awhile and until recently it was farther down in the Google searches. TR used to be a lot less popular of a topic and only a few folks with specific color interests/tasks ever really needed what it offered.

Any way, IMO it's not okay to leave the lens as it was. Just not appropriate that it found it's way here. (no fault of stinky's at all)

Everyone knows the important stuff about TR any way. Yes, you can get your gallons to match your quart -- the same little birdie assures me that it works quite well with TR. ;D

A fresh transfer and edits to the lens won't make it fall to the back pages of Google searches fast enough so the right thing to do is *retire* the lens at least for now.

Oh dear, funcolors, I had no idea I posted something problematic !! While I can't make heads or tails out of what you said, I surmise that I posted something that I shouldn't have. (I appreciate your recognizing it was not intentional!) I did do a google search as my curiosity was piqued, & saw the reference to the formula composition (with pics!) & thought wow, what a find, & posted it. For future reference, how can I know that posting something is a "no-no?" Thanks!

Wow, I'm so confused. Ha. The link wouldn't work for me.

Sheeharee, I just checked in after being out all morning & the link seems to have gone "poof!" Guess that's a good thing, considering what funcolors said. Sorry!

Well, I'm off now to the third garden center of the day.

Btw, if you use some version of the TR, (or whatever you use) I hope you post pics! I know whatever you choose will be beautiful. You are really pulling your colors together so nicely. Good luck!

stinky, it was my lens that I put up some time ago about Tobacco Road. It leads to a store that is mine as well. It's an ever-evolving store about kind of obscure color related *things* resulting from my color adventures and experiences.

My store and this topic got linked. I like my store. I also like Garden Web! Links back to my store, especially on topics which I've contributed just doesn't seem right to me. My forum friends are my forum friends and I like to keep the two separated. I retired the lens about my color adventures with Tobacco Road because I thought it was the right thing to do since the link found it's way here.

stinky, you couldn't have had one fat clue that the lens has hyper-links to me. You've done nothing wrong or inappropriate. You're just a good Googler and was trying to provide more info here.

Yep, stinky. We still love ya! :)

I'm glad it was cleared up, as well. Didn't have a clue what was going on.

Thanks for the clarification, funcolors!

Appreciate the affirming words, Parma!

Can anyone give me the formula for tobacco roads paint? I would like to try it, but can't find a color chip. My SW doesn't have the formula. Thanks

Tommyjmcintoch - Here's two links that both have different forumlas. I actually printed the picture of the formula from the 2nd link from Pumpkinspice and was going to use that. She said SW mixed it for her. My formula from Duron (I never showed them the print out. Just left them mix up what they had as Tobacco Road) was mixed up with black and magenta instead of the brown and yellow. I can give you the formula they used for mine if you want. I don't know if it's the "true" tobacco road but I like the color even though I probably won't be using it in the room I intended.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/decor/msg1121104612799.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/decor/msg0312301810715.html

Okay, I got a real sample strip with Tobacco Road on it. I compared it to SW colors and I would say it is pretty similar to Camelback and Townhall Town.

I only have a few sample strips from BM, but it is also pretty similar to Shelburne Buff.

The match is not exact, but if you weren't able to get Tobacco Road, at least you could get fairly close by choosing the colors I mentioned.

Another lesson for boxing: Last summer when I was testing colors for DS's bedroom I grabbed an old qt. of Valspar Silverware (an old color) off of my cast off paint shelf. Looked great, got a gallon from Lowes. Room's coming together fantastically and I'm loving the color. Ran out w/ just a hair more to go. Went back to Lowes w/ the gallon lid w/ formula and color # on it and they mixed up another gallon for me. This gallon was a smidgeon lighter but luckily where the new and old colors meet is where a door moulding will be so I can hide the seam. What will be a real PIA though is when I have to repiant over all of the 'boy yuckies' on the wall when I go to sell the house.

The same thing happened when I had to finish painting something that I'd started a few yrs. prior and had run out of paint. Simple enough I thought except for that when I went back the brand of paint that I had used 'tweaked' their colors and now it didn't match.

Box your colors!

Ttodd - I'm making note of that story too!

In regards to boxing. . . after it's all mixed to you put it back in the gallons it came in?