Use Zeobrite in your filter instead of sand. You'll get filtering quality like that of DE, without the hassle of DE.

My pool is going to be opened (and completed) within the next 30 days and saw your link to Zeobrite and read a little about this product---I'll see what my PB say and I might try it.

I've heard good things about Zeobrite. Glad to know that it lives up to it!

However, I ordered my filter with my pool kit, so the whole thing took up half of a tractor trailer! Lo and behold it came with the 500 lbs. of sand!

I'm actually planning on using a Dolphin robotic cleaner for routine cleaning, which doesn't run on the pool filtration system. So hopefully most of the debris will be caught by it, and not the sand filter.

Once I actually get 'er up and running, it's nice to know that I can change over to the Zeobrite if I'm not happy with it. Thanks!

-Renee

Just thought that I'd send this one back up to the top again. Hoping someone could offer some advice.

My main concern is the Salt-Water generator. Can anyone make any recommendations on one for a 56,000 gallon pool? Anyone ever used (2) Intelli-chlors?

One more try!
-Renee

I am not a pool plumbing expert, but since it appears the experts are not stepping forward I'll toss in my 2 cents. Per your diagram all your lines are shown curvilinear, so I'm assuming you're using flex pipe. I've heard that flex pipe is more susceptible to long term damage and may even be attractive to termites. Apparently with vinyl liners you need a flexible connection from the lines to the pool, but it's best to try to go with rigid PVC for your main runs (with as few bends as possible to reduce head loss).

Your gallon calcs look right, it sounds like the PB was just telling you what you wanted to hear :-) That's going to be a huge pool!

If you're running a 4x160 pump, then I assume you won't be running it full bore for your typical filtration cycle. My knee-jerk reaction is that your 3 x 1-1/2" lines from the skimmers are OK combined with the 2" lines from the main drains. Of course everyone always says "bigger is better" when it comes to pipe size, but if it's already in I don't think it's worth tearing out unless you plan on running the pump on full speed all the time.

I tried reading the diagrams, but they're a little too small to make out.

Now maybe some "experts" will step forward to refute everything I said, it seems like that's how the most feedback is generated on these forums, LOL!

Can't see the diagram but this one concerns me.

"We already installed a 2" line connected to 2 main drains in the deep end.
(Also there are (2) parallel 2" lines connected to 2 additional main drains in the deep end as the only supply for the waterfall pump.)"

Are you saying you have one pipe per drain? That defeats the purpose of main drain suction. Looks like you have an entrapment issue here if this is the case....

"My main concern is the Salt-Water generator. Can anyone make any recommendations on one for a 56,000 gallon pool? Anyone ever used (2) Intelli-chlors?"

Yes, it is a common install. Not really cost efficient for the ROI.

"We already have an Intelliflo 4x160, so it can do 160 GPM, but what size pipe? (Isnt that always the question!) "

This pump is not for the purpose of running that high. I'm doubting you have any installation to support that flow. For daily circ you want to be in the 30-35gpm mode to get any real savings and that cannot be done with that much water if you want a full turn per day.

"On the suction side we would then have:
(1) 2" line (deep-end)
(2) 1 ½ " lines (already plumbed skimmers)
Were at effectively 2 ½" combined here?
(1) more skimmer to plumb in the deep end (1 ½" or 2")
so one more 1 1/2 " line would be effectively 3" total?? "

Unfortunately it does not work this way. The surface area of a 1.5" circle is 1.76sq inches. Two of those makes 3.52" The surface area of a 3" circle is 7.06". While you increase one pipe 100% from 1.5 to 3.0, you increase surface area almost 4x. This example is for illustration in math. At a velocity of 6 feet per second, the 1.5 pipe will flow 40gpm. Both will flow 80 gpm combined. The 3" pipe will flow 150 at the same 6 feet per second. You're very limited with the 1.5 pipe and you cannot add it all up and assume it's the same as a larger pipe. It just does not add up.

That's the best I can come up with in looking at the post. The 1.5 pipe is never going to deliver the flow rates you require.

Tresw:

Thanks for lookin' into my plumbin' mess! I appreciate it! I had a feeling that the pool was bigger than 40k gallons thanks! As I feared the SWG is gonna be a mess!

As far as flex goes, man I wish I had heard about the termite problem before hand. We have run some of the plumbing in flex, but we were actually able to run most of it in rigid. So far we've used only 45s and small pieces of the flex pipe for more gradual corners for joints.

The drawings came out aweful!! Sorry! Looks like I'm going to have to re-scan and re-post them. Thanks again!

Repair_guy:

I'd love to see any references to how the dual intelli-chlor system is done. I have the tech. manuals, but it just illustrates the by-pass loop for plumbing over 100 gpm. I'm assuming that the second intelli-chlor is in the by-pass loop. Is there a better solution out there? I'm not interested in dragging home anymore chlorine. I'm OK with buying 2 SWGs upfront it the maintence cost would be reasonable. If you have a link to anything I would greatly appreciate it.

I guess I garbled my words on the deep end plumbing supply lines. Lets see if a picture is really worth a 1000 words...

{{gwi:2026241}}

The pair of drains in the foreground supply the intelliflow 4x160, and the pair of drains in the background supply the waterfall pump (imaginary pentair AFP-120, as yet to be purchased). I was thinking about the entrapment issue when we plumbed it, but I've never built a pool before. Did I do it right?

Thanks for the education on pipe sizes. Looks like I really blew that one! I understand what you are talking about with the surface area of the pipe. Basically you're looking at a cross section of each pipe and calculating it's area. I'm going to sit down and work some more numbers....

As far as the 4x160 pump, I thought the pool was 40k gallons when I purchased it. I didn't intend to run it at full capacity, and I was hoping to only use it close to full when we were using the seat jets (6 in a "Cozy Cove" in-pool spa seat). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

FYI, I did re-plumb the supply to one Aqua-Genie in 2", and plan on re-plumbing another one this weekend. That leaves me with only one at 1.5" plumbing, but it sounds like I should plan on replumbing it as well. (It would be a pain, but not impossible!) The returns are all 1.5", because of the extra plumbing to the waterfall and spa jets. Guess that's wrong too...

I'll get out my pencil and paper...

I'm trying to get the plumbing stubbed up to the equiment pad this weekend, so that the liner can be installed next week. Nothing like a deadline to get me going again! Yikes!

Thanks for everything!
-Renee

OK! I finally think I've got it!

Re-Drawn in Paint...(Don't ask, clearly I've been building a pool lately as nothing electronic seems to work around here anymore!)

See link....

I've omitted the Buried Plumbing Diagram as it contained info. not relative to the actual plumbing (elec, waterfall foundation, french drains, etc.) Basically, I've got a crazy shaped pool with 3 Aqua Genies plumbed completely seperately, and combining at the equiment pad. (Plumbed in parallel, not plumbed in series.) And a 6 jet in-pool Cozy Cove spa seat, and a butt load of waterfalls on the back side. No extra returns other than the built-in ones on the Aqua-Genies. That sounds as clear as mud! If you'd like more info, follow the link on one of the above posts to a thread on the entire pool.

Thanks again for any help!
I truly appreciate it!
-Renee

OK, too big!

Try this one instead. It's a little blurry, but easier to see on one page.

Repair_guy:

Ok, I've got my pencil and paper out!

For a 1.5" line the area is 1.76 sq inches.
OK, A=3.14 x R x R (That was harder to type than I imagined!)
Since the plumbing is spoken of in terms of the diameter, R = 1/2 of 1.5" = .75"

Figure out the area of each pipe, then add 'em up!

Supply Plumbing I've got:

1.5" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x .75 x .75 = 1.76 sq inches
2" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x 1 x 1 = 3.14 sq inches
2" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x 1 x 1 = 3.14 sq inches
2" Main Drain A=3.14 x 1 x 1 = 3.14 sq inches
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
11.20 sq inches
So what do I have combined?
Solving for R = square root (11.20) / 3.14 = 1.88 inches
And D = 2R = 3.77 inches

So, I've got the equivilant of 3.77 inches of pipe?? That's pretty close to what I estimated to start with. But I hate to guess, I'd much

rather do the math! According to a chart I saw somewhere 3" plumbing would run 160 gpm max. I'm not interested in running at max,

so I should be good?

And the return works out similarly:

1.5" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x .75 x .75 = 1.76 sq inches
1.5" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x .75 x .75 = 1.76 sq inches
1.5" Aqua Genie A=3.14 x .75 x .75 = 1.76 sq inches
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.28 sq inches

Solving for R = square root (5.28) / 3.14 = 1.29 inches
And D = 2R = 2.5 inches

Chart says 2.5" return maxes out at 150 gpm, so I should be OK here too considering if I also have a 2" line to the Cozy Cove Spa, and

1.5" lines to the waterfalls that I didn't account for here as well.

Or did I just totally miss something?

I guess the real question is can I really run at 100 gpm and turn this thing over in 10 hours?

Also, the sand filter spec is 100 gpm. What happens if I actually ran 160 gpm? Do I just exceed it's capacity to trap dirt/ debris in the sand and start pumpin' that junk back into the pool, or do I actually do damage to the sand filter?

Still got lots of questions! Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-Renee

If the filter is 100gpm, than that is your weakest link, besides the 1 1/2 pipe, and is your flow limit. If you try and push more water through the filter, it will just add back pressure. The only way to increase the flow would be to put two filters running in parallel.

Who makes the filter, I'm sure they tell you a max flow and the max pressure, alone with a normal operating range flow and pressure where the filtere wants to run at. Is the 100 gpm the design flow rate or the max flow rate? These are two different numbers.

The maximum water velocity through 1 1/2 pipe is 51 GPM @ 8ft/sec. You should be designing the whole system to handle the flow rate and turnover you need. You deside the flow rate and turnover you need and then you select the pipes, pump and filter to accomplish that task.

Barco:

Excellent point! The Design Flow Rate is 98 gpm. According to Hayward's Performance Data, it is intended to turn a 58,800 gallon pool over in 10 hours, or a 47,040 gallon pool over in 8 hours. However, I don't know what the Max Flow and Max Pressures are. Seems like it should be able to run a little more through it w/o damaging the filter??? The operators manual has a section labeled Maximum Recommended System Flow Rates By Pipe Size. But this is just basic max. gpm for each pipe size. It's a Hayward sand filter model S310T2. It holds 500lbs of sand yielding 4.9 square feet of filter area. I can't find any more info. on the web.

I would like to run normal cleaning cycles at 100 gpm, but I would also like the plumbing to support the 160 gpm so that the system is not damaged if run that high. I might also want to go that high for a limited use in the spa as well.

I understand that I couldn't plumb the whole pool in 1 1/5" pipe in series. It would have to be plumbed in 3" or greater to run in series. However the shape of the pool and the placement of the filteration doesn't lend itself to that configuration. All of the lines are run in parallel back to the equipment pad where they will be combined to 2" or 3" plumbing at that point before entering the pump.

Certianly there is a difference between 3 Aqua-Genies (basically a return/supply all in-one skimmer unit) plumbed in series vs. the same 3 Aqua-Genies plumbed in parallel. The water effectively has 3 seperate paths up until right before the pump/right after the SWG. I'm guessing most pools are plumbed in series, and that is throwin' everybody off. Seems like I can't even plumb a pool like everybody else. Now I know I'm crazy!

Marching to the beat of my own drums (I guess!)
-Renee

Rain, rain go away, come again another day! (Yeah, after I've got my pool filled!)

This weekend was a wash! Still raining! And gonna rain most of the week! (Maybe enough sunshine to get the lawn mowed, but I digress.)

But we did get some more plumbing done. I replumbed one Aqua Genie to 2" pipes for the both the return and supply. My husband is gonna kill me, but we're also gonna replumb another one too. So that leaves me with:

Supply
Aqua Genie 1 -> 2"
Aqua Genie 2 -> 2"
Aqua Genie 3 -> 2"
Main drain -> 2"
All run seperately to the equipment pad to be combined into (I guess) a 4" line. Which doesn't make much sence to me at that point as the intake for the pump is 3"

Return
Aqua Genie 1 -> 2"
Aqua Genie 2 -> 1 1/2" (too much of a pain to replumb at this point)
Aqua Genie 3 -> 2"
all plumbed directly from the pump return, not run in parallel.

also plumbed, but not running all the time
Cozy Cove Spa (6 jets) -> 2"
Waterfalls -> ??????

Does this look any better?
-Renee