I would be suspicious of the acorns. You mentioned it's happened the last month or so and also that she had lately taken a liking to eating acorns.

Acorns have tannic acid and can be toxic........they also cause problems with the digestive tract.

I would also suspect acorns. My mastiffs had digestive problems (loose stools and diarrhea) for several days from taking a liking to the nuts in our yard (not acorns in this case). We train our dogs to point to the door and sit when they need to go out, and they had to go so often they were barking at us. Couldn't stop them from eating the nuts, so we fenced off the area. No more nuts, no more loose stools and diarrhea, and no more near accidents in the house.

Could be a dominance thing, pooping the house in front of you.... I would enroll her in training classes .

Could be diet related too, most dog foods are made up of the wastes of our society,everything from rotting grains to poop from livestock, horse and cattle hair to dead put to sleep dogs and cats, in meat meal, or meat and bone meal- legally any meat can be used. We don't see their DNA as proof because by law all pet feed must be heated at extreme temps to kill off germs/ect. Heat destroys DNA.

I would try Innova EVO, Ziwi peak, Orijen, Instincts. These are some of the better foods.

....or did you check her bowel/rectum/glands for growths or whatever? I know she's young, but maybe something is irritating her. You know how we, as owners, tend to have "tunnel vision" ;)

Someone I knew saved this sweet little dog (10 1/2 yo), except that he started peeing in the house AFTER he went outside. He would pee on the bed, under the bed, on the floor, right next to the owners sitting, eating. The owner was going crazy trying to figure out why. Was is psychological, territorial, or what?

Finally, for some other reason he went in to be checked. Long story short, the poor pooch had prostate cancer, I think...or it was something that was not easily detected until lots of work up was done. Anyway, the point it that the pooch was fine in other ways, except for peeing in front of the owners...

Yep, I did a full PE in her including the dreaded anal probe, checked for parasites, dewormed anyway. Bloodwork is normal. I guarantee she doesn't have prostate cancer LOL! Stools are normal, no diarrhea, mucus, straining, incontinence or anything.

Acorns are not toxic to dogs; I wouldn't have moved into this house if they were. They can cause GI distress if they eat a lot, due to the sharp edges of the hull, but they are not toxic. I have been trying to restrict her access to acorns, but I have 8 GIANT oak trees on my property and it is impossible to remove every single acorn. I raked up all I could.

She did it again this evening. DH had them out 30 minutes before the aforementioned dog walker came over for an interview. She was here about 15 minutes, and with DH, me, and the petsitter all standing together and talking, Nunyette gets into position in the middle of our huddle. I yelled NO, DH took her outside and at least this time she finished outside. She had been ignoring our correction and just finishing the poops in the house so I guess this was an improvement. She hadn't been fed between the time she was out and when she pooped, and the time between being out and pooping was 45 minutes. I KNOW she can hold her poop for 12 HOURS because she does it every day!

She gives NO warning, just suddenly squats. At least Aleks did a play bow, Ana and K'Ehleyr got antsy, Kang circled and tried to avoid eye contact with everyone, and Tatyana has the sense to actually go to the door and sit down. I can't pick up ANY signs that Nunyette is going to poop except when it's actually happening. Stupid owner :(

Any help with correcting this behavior besides leaving her in the crate 24/7? That isn't going to happen as it is cruel. There aren't any medical issues to consider- she's perfectly healthy and of course on an excellent diet (Solid Gold Wolf King) plus healthy snacks (raw bones).

I wish you could all see her right now. I'm cooking dinner and Nunyette is laying her head down on Tatyana's butt right next to me. She gets along great with the dogs and will cuddle with us for hours on the sofa. She's on the Nothing in Life is Free program at home, doing VERY well. She is not given attention on her demands, only on ours. Yes I know the sofa thing supposedly puts them on "our level" but I haven't found that the case with any of my dogs including Nunyette, There are no dominance issues. Tatyana just plopped her head on Nunyette's back- it's a pile of puppies and so cute!

Anyway, I hope Laurie and SG chime in, I could really use your help too!

She has taken a liking to eating the billions of acorns outside. I am trying to discourage this because otherwise she would just keep eating acorns and NEVER potty. When she picks one up, I call her to me (she is perfectly obedient) and take it out of her mouth with a NO. We are still working on DROP IT. I try to catch her picking up the acorns and saying NO with a leash correction, but it is difficult to determine if she is sniffing to find the perfect poop spot or sniffing for acorns. - I think you are missing something here. You are correcting her for bringing you an acorn???? I think she is getting a mixed message here. If she picks something up in her mouth that she is not suppose to have, you need to correct her and REPLACE the thing she wants with something you want her to have - like a treat. By calling her to you and having her place the acorn in your hand and correcting her, you are confusing your dog.
As for her bowl movements, it is possible that she can not FEEL that it is time to go and she might need a work up. You can also induce a poop (the match trick) and have her poop outside if you know she is ready. I would not recommend using a shock collar on any dog unless it is a last resort. There are so many training techniques available that are more positive and less traumatic.

Don't be so hard on yourself! You have done a wonderful thing bringing this spectacular dog into your home!

Consider a couple of things.

First, your dog is 12 months old. She is way "there" in the potty department, not destructive, and for all practical purposes, trying (with varying degrees of success) to be a really good dog.

Second. If you take a few steps back, and a very deep breath, you will probably see that what you really have is a dog that is mentally about 4-5 months old not only in the potty department but most likely in others as well, such as certain behaviors. Your dog completely missed the prime potty training time (3-4 months) for some reason which is anyoneÂs guess. This means you need to completely back up and start all over and treat your dog like a pup.

Third. IÂve had numerous dog in my life as well (you already know that). I thought I knew most of what it takes to house train a dog, until about 3 years ago. I adopted a mutt, a Shepard/Hound when she was four months old. Previous dogs were a snap to house train, I discovered very quickly that typical training techniques I used on the other dogs, simply do not apply to her. After doing some digging into her life before I cam along, I discovered that she was probably traumatized, not beaten (I donÂt think) just traumatized by some awful events. This completely threw things off in a way that I am still dealing with. She also missed the prime potty training time that was a huge challenge to correct. I have spent all of this time working with her, and she is still not where other dogs are at her age. I have been forced to take very small gentle steps to alter her behavior.

Fourth. You have a "negative" behavior that needs to be turned into a "positive" one. Using the shock collars (a negative) and any other type of correction not considered "positive" to correct this is a huge mistake. You are confusing your dog, and not getting anywhere. You could also make things worse. Submissive peeing and other negative behaviors could easily result using negative correction procedures given the dogs background. Given that she is pooping at your feet, she may be thinking that she is pleasing you or showing submission. You donÂt want to instill fear in your dog, you want a positive behavior that comes out of her complete trust for you.

Given that your dog is this age, the pooping problem should be relatively easy to correct, but, this is not always the case. I do agree that the nuts may be a part of the problem, but not all. She is capable of "holding it" at her age. Be sure you have ruled out medical issues.

The first thing I would do is define where you want the dog to be nine months from now. Obviously, house trained, but other things as well. This will give you and your dog a goal.

Within those nine months, do the following:

*Adhere to her feeding, walking and play schedule. Same time (or close to it) every day. Dog will get used to this and have something to look forward to. Most dogs get fed every 12 hours, check with your vet. After meals, she needs to go for a nice walk to get things moving. Take a treat such as boiled chicken liver, use it for potty training purposes only, dog crave it and using it really gets their attention.

*Additionally: Supervise the dog, every second, with a leash, when she is not crated. If you cannot watch her, make her lay down on a soft area while you work, give her something to chew on. This will instill your authority. If you cannot supervise, crate her. Allowing her to be alone will contribute to her problem and you will never get it under control.

*The instant she comes out of the crate, have your shoes and coat on, then take her out. She needs to associate being let out of the crate with going outside. You mentioned she knows potty commands, be sure and use them with tons of praise AND the liver treat when she goes. This is a serious issue and no time to skimp, associating the deed with a treat is a must.

*For about a week, if dog does nothing when you take her out, either supervise or crate. Set a timer for about 30 minutes, then take her out again with the treats. Keep repeating if she does nothing. When she does go, do the praise and treat thing and extend by about 2-3 hours when you repeat the process. Gradually increase timing by about 30 minutes if she is being successful.

*If dog poops at your feet, grab the leash, firmly say "STOP" and out you go, hopefully with a treat. Give the command, she may or may not go, but she needs to associate the command with the deed in any way possible.

It is very important not to proceed to quickly and expect to much from your dog. You should start to see success within a few days. The 30 minute intervals between going out needs to be gradually increased by about 30 minutes or so, depending on her progress. This will also give her something to look forward to, and instill the fact that you are taking care of her needs. If she is not making progress, you are proceeding to quickly, the timing and everything you are doing to correct this needs to be tweaked so she can be successful. Gradually building on success, even if itÂs minor, is essential to proper house training. Keep in mind that she wants to please you, she is just having a difficult time right now. If you keep in mind that you are dealing with a 4 month old pup, this will help.

I have used this basic system on lots of pups and adult dogs. Initially, itÂs work. But I feel itÂs well worth it to get the dog house trained.

Good luck!

SG

ARGH! Sorry Meghane, I was not completely awake this morning when I saw your post, I missed the other one. Please forgive what I may have repeated.

The thought occurred to me that your voice could be causing an issue, IF your dog is of the sensitive type. Your yelling NO when you catch her in the act may not be advisable. You could be scaring her.

If you tend to get excited and raise your voice, consider being calmer when doing the correcting. This was a MAJOR mistake I made when I first got my problem child (she started doing submissive peeing). She just does not need it OR know how to deal with it (I can relate). The softer touch will probably get positive results.

SG

I know its frustrating.... and you know you're not stupid.

Some dogs are just more stubborn than others....my hardest potty trainer was the tiny dog that we have now. She was a sneaker... I think the key at this point is constant supervision. About the best advice I have is to tether him to your belt loop, so you can see the pre-squat and rush him outside.

Whenever I hear someone say, our dog never had any accidents, I think they've never owned a hound dog.... and they probably own a lab. I think labs are born potty trained. :-)

I don't think the acorns are related to your potty training problem, but I still wouldn't let him eat them. Too much tannic acid can cause kidney problems. Though I doubt he is eating so much to cause that kind of problem. Even people can sick from eating acorns, if they aren't soaked to reduce the tannic acid levels. My lab is an acorn grazer. Though she is good about "leaving it" if I catch her.

I couldn't begin to offer advise. I've had so many dogs over the years and they have all been so completely different in personality. I've had dogs poop just to show who's boss, another because he was afraid.

She's new to you and your household. I'm sure with some observation and getting to know her better, you'll figure out what's triggering it. It could be any number of things, stress, fear, control, marking, loose bowels ... etc.

Good for you for rescuing her! She's going to be one great dog in your hands.

Edna

So this would be super-annoying, but if you can do it for a few days, maybe it would help (I have no idea how cold it is where you're at either -it's freezing here, so wouldn't be possible at the moment).

But what if you just spend an entire evening taking her out every 20 minutes, whether it's a scheduled potty break or not. Basically, just taking away the *chance* to poop in the house (or making the window much smaller, anyways). You'll have to be very persistent, and it will get old really fast, but I'm thinking maybe if she just doesn't even have the chance to squat in the house, and you just make the time between breaks farther by day (so the first day it's 20 minutes, the second it's 30, the next it's 40, etc) every time you're home with her (ie, she's out of her crate), then maybe her little brain will just automatically get the message.

Lots of work, but maybe worth a try?

Jamie (long-time GW member, current lurker)
Gabriel (Dobe/Lab, CVI) & Lucy (GSD/Lab, EPI)

You can also take her deposit and carry it outside where you DO WANT it deposited. Give her a command to do her business, and praise her. Each time she deposits something inside, take it out to the same area, and give the command. If you can spend some time with your new charge outside where you do want her to go, and give her the command to go she will start to get it...you have to be ultra patient with this type of thing, Spend lots of leash time on walkies...I think she will settle in soon and she will change her habits. Good luck

I think previous postings have very good points, however.

I return to her "negative" habit that needs to be a "positive" one.

With this type of situation, the only way you are going to correct it is with constant supervision, with a leash, when the dog is not crated. And, gradually, over the course of perhaps a month or more, getting her where she needs to be.

Somehow she has completely missed out learning a very important thing. Backing up and starting completely over in the potty department, and making corrections along the way, is the only way to fix this. Also keep in mind that she is not going to be considered house trained unless she has no accidents (aside from illness) for nine months.

SG

I have been puzzling this situation out in my pea brain since you posted. It occured to me just this morning that Nunyette may be confused about the whole elimination process. The frequency of trips outside---along with the amount of time and proximity to feeding may have kinda blanked her brain to what you really want her to learn.

The other thing that might be a block is being on leash. Some dogs react to the leash by paying total attention to the handler and even suppress natural functions. Once off leash, that suppression ceases and they 'let go'.

Seems to me that if you can let her out in a yard and simply supervise and reward when she does potty, if the suppression factor is present, she will 'get it' better.

Rotts are high maitmense dogs.. I have never owned a dog,but have watched TV shows and have researched breeds

Hey Runs, you wrote "I have never owned a dog, but have watched TV shows and have researched breeds."

In the post titled "my cat won't eat," you wrote:

"At one point we had three dogs none on heart worm preventive and all on poor diet, one of which was practically getting ready to die from old age., one, younger dog was re homed, older dog was pts. Cat (Nina) started pooing all over the rug flooring and was found to have advancing cancer from poor diet- nothing I could have done she wasn't my cat. We now have one dog- last of the three, who hasn't been on heart worm preventive for over a year now because mom refuses to test dog for heart worm because up north vet said testing should not happen right before you give heart worm pills, none of the vets in our area will give heart worm meds to us without testing, so dog isn't going to be getting that"

So which is it? Have you or haven't you owned a dog?

Just curious...

Meghane,
Could there be some sort of confusion going on with ALL the dogs going out together? I wonder what (if anything) might occur if you let her out briefly, bring her in, let the others out, bring them in, and then let her out again. I also suspect that the walking routine mid-day might put a change in her GI "constitution".

Well, we seem to have the morning thing worked out. We all go out together (she's on a leash for potty) and then we come inside and eat breakfast. She goes out *immediately* after eating and poops right away. She still had a couple of accidents in the house this week, both times related I think to being locked away from us. On Christmas out friend came over and she pooped in the kitchen by the basement door while we were all downstairs. Yesterday she pooped in the dining room in front of the gate I put up to keep her out of the kitchen while I was painting. So I think there's a little separation anxiety going on too. I didn't catch her either time but know it was her based on the amount of acorns in the stool. That's something else to work on... But at least she always pees outside; can't say so much for my old girl.

I stopped trying to discourage acorn eating. We had playtime during the weekend and she is obsessed with the things. I threw her favorite ball and she chased it, then noticed there were acorns and proceeded to eat them for 45 minutes straight. I tried to play with her, but all she wanted to do is sniff for and eat acorns. So I brushed the Huskies instead. So much for playtime. At least she was outside getting fresh air and sunshine.

Meghane,

Sorry to hear that you are having so many problems with your dog.

When ever I encounter a situation like this I always ask the same question of the humans in charge. The question puts things in perspective, and really does get to the heart of the matter. I always consider the health of the dog and the ability of the dog to "hold it" (in your case, there is no medical issue, the ability is there to "hold it") before I ask the question. I almost never consider the ability of the human in charge, that to me is secondary.

That question is: Do you consider house training to be a serious issue?

I always state that there is no need to immediately answer, and, there is really no need to answer at all. Some of time, people say "no", it is not a serious issue with them. Some of the time people say "yes", it is a serious issue. Both answers have different reasons attached to them. When the situation includes two adult humans, they may both have different answers and reasons. Some of the time, people choose not to answer, which is completely fine.

I think you are a very well meaning, very kind and generous person, NOT STUPID in any way. You also know better than anyone else what your situation is, and where it needs to go without advice from anyone here, with far less intelligence, patience and generosity (especially me).

Different humans have different comfort levels with all types of dog issues. Im sure you have encountered numerous humans who have comfort levels far different than yours in your veterinary studies and practice.

Finding that comfort level, and making things happen to get there, is, like so many other issues (dog related or not), an individual thing..

Good luck!

SG

Eating acorns for 45 minutes???

That sounds like obsessive behavior to me. My Molly(the rescue no self esteem whippet mix I have) has some obsessive behavior---but so far has never spent 45 minutes in any of it. Redirecting those obsessions is sometimes a very difficult process.

I wonder if the acorns may well be acting as a laxitive of sorts.

It is patently obvious to me you are not stupid---I know enough about vet. practice to know stupid people have not a snowballs chance to even get through the schooling.

You simply have a unique situation that will require a unique solution. Once you solve it----and I have a feeling you are tenacious enough to keep working on it----you will have quite a story to tell.

I just had an idea. I wonder what would happen if you muzzled her on the outside trips when she is intent on becoming a squirrel? If she cannot eat the acorns, at least you could possibly find out if that is having a cathartic effect.

The fact that Nunyette poops in the house is not going to make me get rid of her or anything like that. I *really* don't want her pooping in the house, especially knowing she has no reason to do so.

If Nunyette is going to potty, it's always before she gets obsessive. And yes, I can direct her attention away from acorns by playing with light and shadows, but she is just as obsessive about chasing light and shadows that it really doesn't help anything. If it's not acorns or shadows, she's not interested, unless the neighbor's cat is in the yard and then she's all about watching her. I don't let her chase the cat, so she sits down and just stares at her until she gets out of sight. Luckily the cat has enough sense to vacate the yard when the dogs are out. The only reason she stops eating acorns or chasing shadows is because she obeys me when I tell her to come inside. None of her toys including the favorite ball can pull her away from acorns or shadows. If she doesn't poop right away, then it isn't going to happen, whether she actually HAS to poop or not.

I can try to muzzle her after she potties outside and see what she does. Obviously I don't want her to hate being outside. I don't know if she's ever worn a muzzle- she certainly hasn't since I've had her. I'll borrow one from work and see how it goes. The only bad thing is that she wouldn't be able to play fetch with the muzzle on either. The nice big back yard was not intended to be *just* a doggie potty, it was also supposed to be a place where we can all play together or at least the dogs can play together, safely without destroying the house. But getting her to poop ONLY outside trumps learning to play in the yard any day.

Thanks to all for the help so far. I'll keep posting our progress.

My moms dog not mine , Sephi I have two cats Bindi and Leopalorn.