Absolutely. I think I posted on another forum JUST YESTERDAY the same baffled question. My latest quote from supposedly-best-flooring-guy-in-town: 'It's impossible to get vinyl tile squares to abut without lips because the underlayment is never perfectly flat'.

To which I replied....so what about the magical leveling properties of the adhesive, IF properly applied? NO ONE's underlayment is ever perfectly flat, does this mean that everyone has ceramic and vinyl tile canted this way and that? Maybe all of -your- clients do! And BTW I contacted the manufacturer who assured me that this was not some innate insolvable property of the tile. And BTW according to the package insert your installer put the underlayment in improperly by using staples instead of nails. And BTW what about the adhesive oozing up everywhere that you "couldn't find"? I could go on...

What surprises me the most, though, is that having been smacked in the face with the realization that the client can read and call an 877 number, they will KEEP UP THE ACT.

I hear you.

I've actually had to have my DH talk to some guys for me. Often times I've just had DH tell the person the same thing I said. Some men will just continue to argue the point until another man says "This is how I want it, period". Then they back off. It is absolutely infuriating!

That said, the space between your Bluestone and the Brick of your house *sounds* like something that might happen to anybody of any sex. The truth is if your not there every minute things like that are going to happen.

I am very particular and know where I want things, many times down to the quarter of an inch.:-)I don't often get a job that is that good. I can't afford it. It's the 80/20 rule. (You get 80% of the job for 20% of the cost. It's getting the last 20% out of people that is a PITA. You either pay more in direct compensation to the tadesperson or you pay it in footwork/supervision/arguing/...) So I have to pick my battles.

I hope the rest of the job turned out well.

I notice that my earlier post was gender-indeterminate. I too am a professional woman, own my own home, etc. I meant Absolutely! I hear you sister.

I hadn't heard the 80/20 rule but having heard it I completely agree with it.

Task for this afternoon...call the male person who installed my storm door and explain patiently that there is a gap at the bottom near the hinge large enough to shove a chocolate chip cookie through, and that therefore this door is neither weather nor bug-proof. My dogs are smarter than these guys. I wish they could talk, they could start giving orders.

These workmen give you these lines of BS because they figure you don't know any better, and from what I've seen, they usually get away with it. This is the whole reason I first got involved in the forums-- to try and educate the end users so they wouldn't fall for some of the crap that tile installers give their customers and then 2 years down the road, their whole installation falls to pieces just after their warranty has expired.

Oh, and just for the record, it's not just women that fall for this garbage. Even on the jobs that I do-- I've gone to a few where the salesperson from the showroom I do most of my work for has given them some line to get them to go with a certain line of tile, or downplayed the prep so that they'd sign the contract. I almost ended my relationship with this showroom a couple of years ago because I got to the job, and after they'd been told this that and the other thing, I told them something completely different and backed it up with my TCA Handbook, which I have with me at all times in case there's a question on a job as to who's right. This job would've cost them about half again as much as they had figured in extras if I'd gone ahead and done the job. But we called the showroom right then, and I got my butt chewed out for not just doing the installation as instructed. At that point, I picked up my tools, went back to the showroom, and told the owner off in spades, right in front of customers, and was very specific as to WHY I was telling him off, and then walked out. When I DID go back about a year later, it was with the understanding that if I was going to put my name on the installation, it was going to be done right. Period. So if he didn't want another problem like that, then don't put me in the position of having to make him look like an ass.

As a GC who is even pickier than the white cat and crystal bowl, I know what you owners are going thru.

It seems to me that contractors think it's a prerequisite to being a contractor.

The problem is most of these guys are getting away with this stuff to the less saavey folks, and I hate that when someone gets cheated.

When I deal with them as a GC, if there is the very least of a lie or lack of care in handling things, they are gone on the spot. At times I get stung, but will not pay till its right, or I'll fix it myself and deduct it from the contractors bill to get it right.

I'm good to these guys but never put up with BS.

Used car salesmen and auto mechanics---throw them in the mix also.

I was a mechanic---specialized in treating everyone fairly--especially women. Had more business than I could handle.

I am now a handyman/remodeler----specializing in treating everyone fairly---especially women.

Only problem i have now---other than too much business---is that my wife of thirty seven years still can't figure out why I have so many women calling me.

I've been to several jobs where the work was improperly done---sometimes it was pathetically bad. Same story as what you all have said here----it seems to me there are a lot of fella's working who want lots of money for a little work. Feeding a customer a line is easier than actually doing the work correctly.

TELL ME ABOUT IT!! And then they look at us as if we're from the same mold, because we're in the same trades!! Not that I can blame em!! Sometimes I feel like ol' Rodney Dangerfield!!

Only problem i have now---other than too much business---is that my wife of thirty seven years still can't figure out why I have so many women calling me.

I hear ya, brother!

I'm a painter 95% of the time.

Just two of the messages this week in voice mail:

"Hi Mike, it's Michelle. I want to do the bedroom with you."
Hmmmmmmm..Okay..who's Michelle?

"Mike, Mrs. Olson calling. Thank you for your gentlemanly kindness while working here today. You're a darling."

As Mac says, I've re-painted poorly painted walls many, many times and I win a customer for life.

I stood up at a painter's conference last month and stated the following:

If any of you are going to do a s^&* job this week, please give me the address so I can follow up with the customer. They laughed, but I was serious! About 35% of my work comes from poor quality work done by others, and 10% of that 35% is done by husbands who are handicapped when it comes to home improvement.

Katsmah, not all of us consider our customers stupid. After my repaint presentation, most of my customers are now as smart as I am. *J/K*

Michael

I agree with the gentlemen at the end here. I'd also like to add the fact that it's not just the Construction trade that it happens. It's our society in general. Nobody cares about quality anymore. They only care about themselves and that pay check. I know first hand that filling a woman full of BS will get me in more trouble than a man. I've been married for 25 years!!! I didn't last that long because I stood my ground and told her to shut up. I got there because I listened to her questions and gave her the answers honestly. There is nobody more critical of the way things are done than woman and gay men. I mean this with no disrespect in any way shape or form. I have many of both as my customers. I handle each one personally and like it's a piece of high quality crystal. I've found by treating them fairly and respectfully that they have an underground base of friends and family that will all come to me for their needs. Make one mad and you get the boot.

In the long run folks it's all about Honor and Pride in what we do. I do my job at your house like I would at mine. If I don't like it I do it over again. If you don't like it I also do the same. (at my expense) I guess everyone feels that Government can rip people off they can also. The people who are suppose to set the example fail us every day. I just can't work that way at all. I know there are others out there that work the same way. It's just hard to find them.

I do remember this though from my childhood days. Growing up in the 60's & 70's was one of the greatest times ever to grow up (I Think). The music was at it's best in almost all formats and you could trust almost everyone. You could leave your doors open and unlocked on the house, you could leave the keys in your car, you could be a child and play at the park with no worries alone, you could trust your kids with the old guy down the road and I could go on forever. You out there from this time know where I'm coming from. The one thing that stands out more than anything is if someone pissed you off or ripped you off. You could walk up to them and plant one on their nose and speak your peace. If you were a woman back then there was always some man looking out for you and rapping some dumba@# upside the head. Not that the women couldn't do it. Why should they get their hands dirty unless the really want to. If they wanted to, then they did it themselves. There were no lawsuits or going to jail when these things happened. If the police came out back then and heard what happened they would tell the idiot he had it coming and drove off. So back then you always had to wonder how your nose would hold up if you bent the truth or tried to pull one over. Not today folks, you go to jail now if you sell someone hot coffee and they burn themselves with it. Even when they honestly know it will burn them. People honestly take things personally and blame others for their own stupidity! The sad thing is our great judicial system lets them run the course and tie things up. It's a sad day in America. I say we get Wyatt Earp and and his brothers to do it the way it was meant to be. Just my two cents here.

Just a note that I'm not just venting I'm trying to make a change for everyone. I'm working with others to try and make our Nation a safer place by pushing the Building Performance Institute's (BPI) program across the Nation. It started out East after NY's power outage and is moving West. It's just getting into Chicago and moving towards my home state of MN. This program will mandate that any building contractor, remodeler, inspector in any trade that works on a building of any kind. Has to be certified on the proper ways of doing there job and most importantly energy efficiency. So this means they will have to have some education and pass a test. It also means they will be watched and scrutinized by their piers. So watch for this program coming to your state soon. It offers some of the good old trustworthy things of the past.

"In the long run folks it's all about Honor and Pride in what we do."

That one line says it all.

Window guy-- is there a link or someplace you can send me to get some information on BPI? (For the record, I'm in Maine, and NO ONE has to be certified, other than plumbers and electricians)

Over in the APpliances Forum, we often bring up the amazing things that people hear in appliance showrooms from the salespeople. Anything to make a sale, or stream-of-bs thinking, whatever comes into their heads. Sounds a lot like the same, to me. SOme of them are making it up as they go along.

Sigh

I have a wonderful and ethical mechanic who does not overcharge me. Same with the vacuum repair guy. And my GC doesn't think I'm stupid. He fixes items that were not done correctly and even owns up to mistakes made. HE thinks I'm smart, but my dh knows it's because of this forum. smile.

Here you go Bill. They are the up and coming way of life here in America. The more we push it the better our customers will be.

Here is a link that might be useful: Building Performance Institute

Lemonade-- That makes two of us on the mechanic. Last May, I had the rear u-joint replaced on my truck. The end of August, I was doing a favor job upstate by Bangor (about 100 miles from home), and blew that u-joint on the highway. At 10:00 pm I called this guy to let him know what happened. He told me to get it towed down here, and he'd take care of it. On top of a 280.00 tow charge, He not only had to replace the u-joint, but also the driveshaft and the muffler (from taking a beating form the driveshaft flailing about under the truck). It never cost me a dime, and not ONCE did he try and make any excuses. Funny part is he MADE money from that jesture, because I can't even tell you how many people I've sent to him since. Everyone makes mistakes. It's part of being human. Even ME!! :-) It's how you handle them afterward that makes the difference.

Windowguy-- thanks. I'll definitely look into it.

I was in a window store and the guy "helping" me couldn't even answer my questions. He had to call the rep. His comment was "No one ever asks these questions." I shop on specs and warranty and then aesthetics.
As for our contractor, I have made it clear that the install is the most important aspect of the job to me and I want it done correctly. I expect the workers to be paid fairly for a good job, that's why we are going with the GC who isn't the cheapest, but does it right or makes it right.
It saddens me at the quality of products and customer service out there too.
Long live the true craftsmen!

The contractors described in the original post are just not honest people. Some are honest when it is in their best interest to be so, but then turn into opportunists at other times. But some customers, because of ignorance or faulty reasoning, just wrongly assume that the contractor is dishonest. On posts on these forums, I have at times really tried to explain things to those who seemingly are asking for help. Then they ignore the honest advice. When a contractor is accused of being dishonest, sometimes they are, somtimes they are innocent. Once when I wired a new house, out of the total 91 wall switches, the woman complained about the location of three of the switches after the drywall was installed, but not finished. Her husband had approved the location of the switches. Framing members more or less dictated the switch location. When she complained, he denied having approved the location. Both shouted insults at me, called me liar. I told them that I would move the switches at my expense to wherever they wanted them if the inspector would approve, but that drywall repair would be at their expense by their drywall man. They did not find a better location, neither did they apologize.

I cringe at the generalizations, but I realize that some people adopt a point-of-view based on a few experiences. That's to be expected. It seems that negative experiences have more power to establish a lingering bias against a class of people, but that doesn't make it justifiable. I think a "healthier" approach would be to be careful and selective when engaging anyone for anything, and to be clear and reasonable about your expectations. A common issue I run into is with potential clients that have had bad experiences with other contractors is that they meet me with an adversarial mind set. I'm not willing to invest time and money with someone who is contentious and suspicious, and the guys that are may be the type that will feed their negative opinions.
The funny thing is, I find it's much easier to do quality work than to cut corners. My state has a 5/10 year implied warranty, and I like to be able to sleep at night.

Thank you for your input gentlemen. Its refreshing to see that there are contractors and tradesmen who aren't out to try to dupe the customers. Can you move to NJ? Unfortunately in this area - and I'm sure many other areas of the country where housing prices are out of site - there is more work than the contractors need, so the customer is at the mercy of the contractor. I would never recommend either of these contractors to anyone, but it doesn't matter. There is more than enough work. The guy who built my porch barely advertises and he still has 2 or 3 jobs going on at the same time.

Over the years I have learned that for each project I have done I need to be as knowledgable as possible and appreciate those of you who post to the forums to help us. It has reached a point though where I absolutely hate having to have work done on the house because of the energy I have to expend to make sure the professionals do the job correctly.

i'm an old kitchen designer from way back before CAD. when i was shopping for new cabinets for my kitchen remodel, if i do say so myself, i had drawn the most beatiful, detailed kitchen prints these guys had seen in a long time. they figured since i knew what i was doing they wouldn't be able to pull any fast ones on me or sell me any uneeded bells or whistles. i had a heck of a time getting estimates or even getting anyone to call be back. finally, my cousin who is a contractor, had me go to his supplier and he told them that they WOULD do business with me. i guess alot of these guys like their customers rich and stupid.......

"I'm not willing to invest time and money with someone who is contentious and suspicious, and the guys that are may be the type that will feed their negative opinions. "

JRRR-- Not all of us. To me, they're a challenge, and I WILL overcome their suspicions. Any time I walk on a job, I have two things going for me. I ALWAYS carry a copy of the TCA (Tile Council of America) Handbook, which has all our specs spelled out very precisely (pretty much the same as the 9300 section of the ANSI specs), so if there's a question about what I'm doing (or intend to do) and why, I can pull it out at any time and show them. Secondly, if they CAN'T understand what's in the book, I'll refer them to either floorstransformed.com or johnbridge.com, so they can get another opinion from an "uninterested" thrid party. One of the great things about doing things properly is that there's always a wealth of information ready to back you up if you need it.

Contractors are businessmen and businesswomen.

There are two types of those:

1. Those that realize they run a business. The customer is always right (even if they are not). These are courteous and will take time to educate the customer if needed, explaining the plusses and minuses of different options in a gracious manner.

2. Those that depend on the "Good ol Boy Network" for their new jobs, have a chip on their shoulder (maybe because they don't do good work?), and tend to take offense at any customer feedback with exception of the feedback consisting of the check at the end. These tend to go out of business.

I worked with a guy this summer that refused to communicate with me. After his last email to me which consisted of a personal attack, I was literally fearing that anymore inquiries to him might endanger my physical safety!

WIndowguy-- I checked out that BPI site. It looks like a good organization, but it looks like it's more for the structural trades, rather than flooring. Too bad, too. I'd still love to see a consumer advocacy group like that come to Maine, though.

So, how does the consumer, who doesn't really know anything, know when the contractor is snowballing him or not? I know I wouldn't be able to catch that stuff at all.

To those contractors who posted about honesty, integrity and quality workmanship - thank you. It is nice to know these qualities still exist. I do beleive honest contractors are in the majority. We only hear about the bad ones.

To posters who have had poor workmanship on jobs, the lesson is "due your homework." Research what you want done and how you would like it done - it's called self education. Check the BBB in your area for recommended contractors. Talk to friends and neighbors who have had similar work done. Bring in at least three contractors to give you estimates. Spend the time to ask specific, relevant questions. I have never known a quality contractor not to answer a question about a job.

I have several contractors I have used over the years that I know and trust. Their workmanship is excellent. Their prices are reasonable and the are neat and clean at the job site.

Right now I'm in the process of researching central a/c units and installation. New concept to deal with. Soon contractors will be at the house giving me price quotes for the job. I'm almost ready and I will be asking for references to call.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

I am a WOMAN CONTRACTOR! Please don't assume that all people in the trades are men. I have to constantly to deal with this assumption and believe me, it is infuriating at times. As a woman I also have to add that sexism is everywhere, its a part of our culture. Many tradespeople take on the mantle of the macho contractor, assuming their masculinity gives them some god given right or biological knowledge of construction. I wish people wouldn't hire these people, but people do because they assume they must put up with this and all contractors are the same --- au contraire!

We work very hard to do the best job we possibly can. As a GC I have fired incompetent subs and had to deal with losers, take them to court for inferior work that I have to eat the cost for in order to get the job done correctly. It can happen to the best of us. Like someone else said above, there are thieves everywhere, they are not only in the contracting business.

That said, some simple rules to follow when considering doing a project should be a standard of operations for any homeowner:

1. Get at least three bids for your project.
2. If the project requires structural changes, such as an addition or changing layouts of rooms, a design from either the contractor themselves or a design firm is in order. You should expect to pay for this service as it is very time consuming and also involves a degree of liability for the designer. Expect also that a structural analysis be done for anything requiring moving or adding onto bearing walls, or changing roof loads, etc.
3. One set of plans should be sufficient to garner other bids, but make your intention to have others bid on the plans clear up front, some may not want to give their plans out to others, unless the design is sold as such.
4. Ask questions ad infinitum prior to entering into the project and prior to hiring a contractor. Your contractor should be asking you many questions as well.
5. Ask your friends for referrals of contractors they've liked, ask them what they would have done differently if they had to do it over again.
6. A kitchen or bathroom design are most often offered by houses that sell cabinetry. Contractors usually have a relationship with at least one local cabinet company, ask them for the recommendations. Although the service is free, please consider that jumping around from one designer to another in order to maximize price can only complicate things and cause confusion and even some feelings of lack of faith on the part of the designer working up your plans.

I don't go into meeting customers thinking they are stupid, quite the opposite, I always assume they have some idea of what they want and most customers today do their own research online or through word of mouth. I also wish that homeowners wouldn't expect me to give estimates on the fly or to have the answers to every single question they ask right on the spot.

Keep change orders to a minimum so as to keep the job running smoothly, make your decisions firmly at the start and try to stick with that plan. If you aren't sure about what you want with your design, materials or project, don't start the project until you are! Change orders cost money and time and ratchet up the aggravation factor, especially when a homeowner changes their mind after the ideal time for such a change has passed.

Don't be dazzled by the contractor who seems to have all the answers at once -- that is usually a red flag for a BS artist. I always am finding that I have something new to learn and the appropriate response when questioned about something I don't know is, "I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you." Of course, they should get back to you within a reasonable time.

Be a good customer.

1. Please don't harass the tradespeople while they are working! I know as for myself on smaller jobs where I might be working, its hard to change gears from manager to worker in the middle of a job. It often leads to wasted time, no good answers and mistakes due to my focus being set off. Consult with the GC about a meeting, to set up after the work day or on a weekend (if they aren't working weekends) and even better, provide an agenda for the meeting, so the contractor can be prepared with answers. Sometimes an emergency may arise that will require immediate attention, but oftentimes the issue can wait until the days' work is done and everyone can focus. In that vein, don't wait until the part of the project you have a question about is in the construction phase to have a general question about it. For example, when building a house, a customer decided to not order the windows we had planned, but to change the sizes and styles dramatically. When I pressed her for a list of the sizes that day, she became indignant; but there we were with the first floor deck on ready to start building the walls. I had my guys all lined up for the day and had essentially paid them for nothing as we couldn't proceed without the proper R.O's in hand. The customer had a hard time understanding this and reluctantly provided the window sizes after I hounded her for two days as we couldn't proceed. She couldn't understand why we couldn't just build the walls and then make the R.O.'s afterwards!

2. If you are dealing with a GC who has hired subs and you have questions about their work, go to the GC directly, don't go to the subs, they will inevitably answer your questions within the scope of their knowledge and perspective, often with little consideration of the project as a whole, or in contradiction to the GC's plans. The GC will probably bring the sub into the conversation anyway, but as they are managing the project, they need to know every concern you have and work to apply the best solution.

Also, if you are having a problem with a sub that you think the GC doesn't know about, a good GC wants to know ASAP. They try to keep on top of everything, but communication is a two way street and they are only human.

In the same vein, please don't ask the subs directly to price out additional products or changes, any good subcontractor knows to refer to the GC, a jerk will provide his prices at the expense of the GC's markup that covers GC's insurance risk, extra time factor and effect on overall project.

Don't hire someone you personally detest or feel uncomfortable about. They will be in your home, like your favorite in law who won't go away, you will be looking at their ugly faces every day for awhile. That uncomfortable feeling will oftentimes get worse and even the most loved people can get on your nerves after they've been tromping through your house for two months!

And finally, don't assume all contractors are morons. We deal with remodeling building or whatever our specialty is, everyday and should at least know what we are doing. Please respect our knowledge and expertise and at least give us the opportunity to address your concerns or to address or counter what you've heard or been told elsewhere about a procedure. As I said above, no one knows everything and to make the assumption, whether on your part or the contractor's is pretty unrealistic and unfair.

I remember one customer we had used to go around to the subs after we left the job for the day and repeatedly inquire about how they felt we were doing, or what they would have done, etc. Although we were hired as framers, we were treated like GC's with responsiblity and didn't deal with the subs (she hired them). Their perspective came only from their limited view and like the old fable of the Three Men From Istafhan, none of them gave her the full picture and thus their views as a whole were contradictory, worthless and borne out of their frustration in dealing with a clueless homeowner as a GC. There were many stupid mistakes, but no one knew like she did (according to her) and everyone pointed fingers at everyone else. It was ridiculous.

If you have a question about the work procedure, ask the GC and make sure you are confident about what they are doing or ask them if they can change their procedure or review other possible approaches you've heard. A friendly discussion will often yield far better results than an all out war and also, most tradespeople love to discuss the technical aspects of their work and why they do what they do. Most people don't bother to ask and there is always more than one way to skin a cat. An honest contractor is not threatened by calm and concerned inquiry, but everyone will put up their defenses if they are suddenly charged as a liar out of the blue.

I get calls about these issues often. I find the homeowner is usually right about half the time... not a success rate that would justify bragging or putting down contractors in general.

NewEnglandBuilder: Thanks for the post. I am a female GC in the midwest and feel the pain of these Gardenweb posts. When you deal with me, you don't get the kind of hassles that are being described in this forum....but MANY clients choose contractors based on price and like many things, you get what you pay for. We have adopted a policy of meeting with the owners of projects that we have lost to the competition(always because of cost) after they are finished and 100% of the time the project matched or exceeded our estimates without the quality factor that we provide.

Let me know if you work in Maine....I have a house there and can't find reliable subs.

Take care!

Because we are....

Why can't we just learn to love our cracked corianesk countertops on 1980's oak cabinets without knobs so they have grease stains from top to bottom?

Why is the corianesk white/stained/cut to pieces double bowl that only holds water in one bowl sink not good enough?

Why can we not learn to live with the Jenair cooktop we have? After all, one small burner still works...sometimes....

Why don't we just a really big wine storage fridge in the middle of the kitchen with large glasses and call it a day? Really...if we were tipsy 24/7 we just wouldn't need to re'do the kitchen now would we?????

I have done rather well over the years fixing the various screw ups by other tradesmen.

Some minor, some major, and some that even ended up in court (and as a PE & PhD I can testify as an expert in many cases).

Many of these guys have relatively poor training and just keep doing the same thing. Any variation from the 'norm' and they are befuddled.

I have hired and trained a few guys over the years.
The 'new house' experienced guys often had problems with remodel work. Not a lot of adaptability present.

I have not advertised for work in about 15 years.
I have enough satisfied customers to work as much or as little as I want.
I have a few crew guys I keep busy just to keep things going (and a pretty good pile of contacts I can call on), but I have been picking only interesting jobs for the past 5 years.

The last plasterer I know died a few months ago.
He could do spectacular work, from walls to moldings.
He was wonderful to watch and work with.
The price of many of these trades is so high that they are continuing to disappear.
You can only run plaster molding in place so fast.

I don't believe that "you get what you pay for". I've had students, well instructed, paint with more care than the guys to whom I've paid $50/hour or more. A lot of what passes for good work is simply personal taste and standards. I think the most important issue in painting, for example, is surface preparation. If a lot of sanding isn't happening, there's no way the paint is going to cover the old dings in the woodwork or the paint peels. Very few professional painters want to take that time. I've got an entire, newly remodeled room that I'm currently just closing my eyes to--one day, (or maybe never) I'll paint it myself again.

I got bids on plumbing for a new kitchen ranging from 5K to 2K. The 2K guy did a beautiful job, and I can't imagine what more I would have gotten for 5K.
It could be that in fine cabinetry, the real stars are real expensive, but many times, what you pay doesn't correlate to what you get.

I think some of your responses point to the root of the problem....not enough skilled tradesmen are out there anymore. I think our society has emphasized that everyone has to have a college education and unless you have a degree under your belt you just won't amount to anything in life. It is almost as if there is shame in doing blue collar work these days. Maybe if there were more technical schools available we would have less kids dropping out and more qualified mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc. It's not like you can't make a decent living doing these jobs so why isn't there more encouragement for kids to pursue this type of career? My hard hat daddy provided a great home to his family and was happy running his own heavy construction company. Ok, now I will get off my soapbox!

I just could not help it...

I SOOOO agree with the above statement. The society HAS to change its views of the job prestige.

I am paying my plumber $100/hr - more than I make myself hourly, I think, if I convert my yearly income into hourly rate. Is it a bad income?

I watched how he worked and I can tell you: the guy is a real artist!

The same is true about the tile work: one has to be a little bit of a designer in addition to having the technical skills to do an elaborate tile job.

Why do we never see those things advertised?

And the technical schools are so long overdue that well have start bringing tile guys from other countries like bringing programmers in the nineties. DonÂt laugh  I know some people who seriously considered doing just that.

The trades people that are compassionate towards the customer as well as passionate for what they do will stay busy by way of word of mouth reputations and will make a decent living. Those that are only interested in the bucks and are slam bam in & out-give me my money, might make a high dollar wage when things are going great guns, but they will be sitting on their tails when things slow down, because reputation was not important to them and they dont care.

Our high school has a program for kids that is a basic residential const. course where besides what they learn in the classroom, they go out and get a hands on feel in various trades. It has now teamed up with habitat for humanity on new builds as well as remodels.Kind of a win win ordeal for the community. Overall, im hearing that trades classes such as wood and metals shops are being phased out from our schools,making trade schools all the more important for those who choose that path.I always advise kids that want to have a trade to get an education geared towards business as well as get out there and work for contractors in the summer months working on getting a trade.Then when and if they choose to license up and go out on their own, they'll have the best of both worlds experience behind them.

Child labor laws have some merit. But they do perhaps hinder the development of tradespeople. Summer jobs for youngsters can provide early training- and provide for job exploration. I was soldering wiring connections by age 7. My son was helping me do simple things at age 5. Over the years he explored lots of jobs that he ultimately had no interest in pursuing. Now has professional degrees. Some of the things we learn best were learned young. There are many jobs that people are not permitted to even watch until they are age 18.

My father was in the constuction industry (that's where I learned the "industry"), and taught me a lesson early on-

He alway's said "it's funny that most people don't have the time to do it right, but always have time to do it over". "If they would do it right the first time, they would not have to do it over."

I have always remembered that saying, and have passed it along to many of the contractors that I have hired.

Makes them think!

Steve

We hired a contractor, a staining and finishing guy who said he could refinish the woodwork in my bathroom (it was previously painted), and also remove the white wash stain on my cherry bathroom cabinets and restain that with a natural stain. He first tried stripping the whitewash with an orange stripper, which I told him beforehand would not work on a whitewash finish - the orange stuff is not a strong enough product. He refused to work with any marine strippers, so instead he started sanding my woodwork - now it has SWIRLS all over it, he broke half of my moulding trying to get it off the walls, and then told me that the windows couldn't be stripped without breaking them. He insisted that he smash out my double hung windows (frame and all) and replace them with a new double hung that I could get for about $60 at a local hardwood store.

He showed up at my house drunk when he suggested the smashing out the window bit, and I told my husband I don't ever want to see him again. After stripping the original paint with a paint gun, I have now repainted my woodwork AND my cabinets myself. I am still trying to salvage the rest of the moulding that was destroyed. It's a shame that anyone who walks around with a business card and does some advertising can call themselves a "professional". What a joke!

I just finished getting several estimates for replacing my roof, and the first contractor obviously thought I was stupid. They never set foot on the roof (and it isn't steep). They took their measurements from the ground. They told me that the tongue and groove wood under my roof wasn't any good, that plywood was better and they would replace it all with plywood. They wanted to repair my chimney flashing with copper because that was better, they didn't mention it also was more $. They told me my house was over 50 years old so undoubtedly I had no step flashing, and they would have to add it. I didn't get a written estimate, they wrote their estimate, a whopping 12,000.00, on the back of their business card. I felt as if they thought I was completely clueless about roofing issues (I am not) and they would be able to rope me in for
much more money and work than was necessary. Yes, I am a single female who happens to own a house, it doesn't mean I am an ignorant homeowner, and don't treat me like one.
I wish there was an easy way to find reliable contractors!

Abbey

A reliable/reputable contractor will respect the fact you are a single female homeowner and work with you on advise,as well as educating you on the basics of the project at hand. Good ones are hard to find, but one avenue is to ask co-workers,friends,family members who have had work done for referalls.Ask for references and look at projects they have done when possible,asking those customers their thoughts.