Liz, if you don't have enough egg rings, can you use things like tuna cans with the tops and bottoms cut out? The newer cans have those weird bottoms that can't be cut out, but some of the "store" brands still have them. I'm afraid if you cook them on a sheet, you're going to have flatbreads. Sigh. That said I did make Elery some bagels which got boiled first and then baked and they held their shape. So, if your package has bagel directions, maybe that would work. The texture of the gluten free bagels were more like a bun anyway. Annie

I mill my own flour and make a 100% whole wheat bread recipe for hamburger and hot dog buns on a regular basis. I also use the same recipe for high-rising loaves of bread. The loaves or buns are just as light and fluffy as white bread because I use the SPONGE METHOD for making dough, instead of the much faster direct dough method - where all the ingredients are mixed together. An ingredient important in all bakers' yeast breads made with 100% whole wheat flour, or additions of wheat germ as an ingredient in the bread, that most people don't know about is ascorbic acid. There is a substance in wheat germ (which is a part of 100% whole wheat flour) called Glutathione which breaks down the gluten (which equals squatty short loaves). By adding ascorbic adic to your dough you will help to counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. Ascorbic acid will repair gluten bonds and will help sustain the leavening of the bread during baking. It also promotes yeast growth in the acidic atmosphere in which yeast grow best (1/8 t. ascorbic acid per loaf). (Note: Do not add ascorbic acid to naturally-leavened breads - aka sourdough - because it's naturally acidic and the ascorbic acid is unnecessary.) I let the sponge rest for at least 2-1/2-hours and up to 12-hours - covered in the bread machine or covered in a bowl if making it by hand. This allows the gluten in the flour to hydrate and the bran to soften. Bran in whole wheat flour can actually cut the gluten strands during kneading. It makes a big difference in texture, taste, and rise when working with 100% whole wheat flour if you use a sponge method and the addition of ascorbic acid powder. You don't say if the recipe was 100% whole wheat or a light wheat recipe (includes some unbleached/bleached all-purpose or bread flour). If you use a high-protein whole wheat flour, additional vital wheat gluten is entirely unnecessary!!! If you use whole wheat flour in combination with commercial bleached/unbleached all-purpose or bread flour, it's unnecessary because there's more than enough gluten in the white flour. If, by chance, the whole wheat flour you use was specifically for PASTRY, it is milled from low-protein soft wheat and not appropritate for making yeast breads. Additions of vital wheat gluten (where there is NOT a high-percentage of low-gluten or non-gluten flour) usually contributes to tough bread, not necessarily the rise of the bread. "Hocky Pucks" or "Bricks" are also a sign of not enough moisture in your breads - among the other things already mentioned. If you don't do a good job mixing the dough and developing the gluten while mixing and you toss out a shaggy lump of dough, then you didn't do the mixing slowly enough, or enough strokes used to slowly add the flour to the liquid. If you don't do a good job of kneading and add too much flour during kneading, then you chance making a dry dough which often makes "pucks". With bread dough, it's best to err on the side of a wet dough. Dry dough always equals a "brick" or "puck". You'll find my recipe at the link below. Post #2 in the thread. -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: sponge method help please

Here is the sourdough English Muffin recipe that I have made several times. You can use all bread flour or half bread/half whole wheat as I do. These are cooked on a griddle or in a large fry pan for about 6-7 minutes each side. The recipe makes 10-12 and comes from Dean Tucker's book, Sourdough Cookin', 1976. Sourdough English Muffins 1 cup sourdough starter 2 1/2 cups flour 3/4 cup buttermilk 1/4 cup yellow cornmeal, plus 2 TB 1 t. soda 1/2 t. salt Take the buttermilk and the starter from the refrigerator at least 30 minutes before preparing the recipe. When all ingredients are at room temperature, combine all and stir well. Turn dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead until smooth - or knead 5 minutes on low in an electric mixer, adding more flour if necessary to prevent sticking. Roll dough to a half inch thickness and allow to rest for 10 minutes. Cut with a floured 3" cutter. Sprinkle 2 TB of cornmeal on a sheet of waxed paper. Place muffins on cornmeal and press lightly to coat each side. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise for 1 hour. Bake on a lightly greased griddle heated to 350 for about 10 minutes each side, [mine did not take that long to cook] turning occasionally while cooking. Cool on a rack or serve right away. These freeze very well! I put 2-4 in a freezer zip bag when they are completely cooled and freeze.

Oh Granlan, I remember with such fondness when my mother would be baking dinner rolls for the holidays. Start them the day before, about 3 or 4 PM as I recall and about 11 PM they'd be formed and rising. Then she'd be up about 3AM baking them. What a heavenly smell by which to be awakened! I'd often get up and keep her company (yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!) while she'd be baking them and doing all the other things while everyone else was sleeping. I'd grab the jar of peanut butter and attack the hot rolls from the oven. The melted peanut butter dripping on me and it was just plain wonderful. Fresh bread is such a treat! Sadly her health diminished and I never really learned her recipe. I know it was given to her by one of my aunts. But I still think of those times and our talks in the mornings, her head bobbing, dozing off a bit from exhaustion. What she did for us was never truly appreciated by the rest of the family. A very special person and great memories. All from bread??? LOL I've made some a few times from different recipes, never quite capturing the same taste but memory could be different. But it's still good stuff. I think I should try making something today. If it weren't so warm and humid...