I'm afraid the Plumbing-Industrial-Complex is mulcting your wallet on at least 2 counts--The Tankless Myth, and The Swedish Myth.

re: Asko washing machine--I know anything Swedish is "trendy", but you do realize you're going from heating your wash water with cheap natural gas to expensive electricity, right? If your washing volume is low, and you don't want to be bothered dialing your dedicated laundry WH up/down on laundry day, the Asko might make sense. (It certainly sounds like the previous owners did a LOT of laundry to have a separate dedicated WH.)

OTOH, you don't state what the length of runs are between the 2 WHs, and between the points of use... i.e. does the outside location, tanked or tankless, involve long runs and thus long wait times (and wasted energy) for those users inside the house? tankLESS INcreases your WAIT time, for any given run length... or did they "forget" to tell you that? Those wascally wascals.

If you do go with the Asko, I'd DRAIN the outside WH, and keep it for a spare... 5 years is near new. FORGET THE TANKLESS altogether--it's a solution looking for a problem, and that problem exists only in the tiny apts. of Europe's largest cities. Asko is also geared towards that milieu, but they do appear to have some keen features (multi-rinses, 170 degF water, YOWZA!)

As for your 1991 indoor WH, have you drained it annually? Would have to know actual numbers on the hardness of your water to know if it's wise to do so now... OTOH, 23 years and still ticking, probably best to leave well enough alone--especially if it's standing in a drip pan, which will alert you when "the end is nigh", and hopefully you'll notice the leakage before it overflows... i.e. they usually fail slowly, seldom catastrophically... often you'll hear the hissing of droplets hitting the burner before you see even the smallest puddle in the drip pan... 23 years, you're deep in the "win" zone there. Note the brand and buy it again, lol.

I'm guessing you've never replaced a single part on either of your simple NON-electronic American-made conventional gas WHs... and if you did, the parts are cheap and available. NO tankless owner can say that, esp. the ones in hard water zones. Remember how simple, DEbugged, and trouble-free your conventional WHs are... work the same even when the electricity is out.

Don't fall for the tHankless myth... with their computer boards, spinning impellers, de-liming maintenance, backflush mechanisms... it's Rube Goldberg writ large... and to top it off, the insulation on today's TANKed WH's is so efficient, the tankless doesn't even save you any measurable energy in normal daily use!

... because it has to heat the water as fast as you're using it (vs. in advance w/ TANKed), you'll need a BIGGER GAS LINE SERVICE, usually including a new meter... oh yes, the "love" plumbers have for tankless is truly a MANY-splendored thing... coming, going, and every which way... do you feel your wallet getting lighter yet?... LOL! ;')

Thanks Fixizin for your double dose of FUD.

As someone who actually owns a tankless, I would never go back to a standard gas water heater.

My tankless adds about 3 seconds to the initial wait time for hot water - that's been the only negative in more than 7 years. I have unlimited hot water, it takes up a small space on the wall and It paid for itself about a year ago. I have hard water and I clean it about every 2-3 years (cleaning kit cost $40). The heater will last for a very long time. I did not have to change my gas service and it was the same installed cost as the power-vent heater I otherwise would have purchased.

No, Fixizin, no standard gas water heater comes close to a tankless for efficiency. The reason has nothing to do with insulation or the hot water in the tank. The reason is that a tankless heater with its sealed combustion can reduce the exhaust vent temps (to below condensing on condensing units). No normally vented gas tank heater can do that (feel free to provide a link to a standard gas heater with a EF of 0.82 - 0.92 the best you will get is ~0.65 or so.)

All that said, you want to make sure you have adequate gas supply and such before you commit to a tankless. IF you have to increase gas service, it can be a deal killer and you should consider alternatives.

There are other very high efficiency options out there including hybrid gas (combines tank and tankless) and hybrid electric (uses heat pump). The technology isn't as mature as tankless, but it is there.

As for the ASKO washing machine, let us know how that goes. I use the LG front loader and would do that again also. I have dog bedding that I wash often - I need the larger size.

Regarding "heating with electricity, vs cheap gas.." the truth is that the front loading washing machines use so little water that it often doesn't have a chance to get hot. The heater in the washer in this case makes sense. To put this in perspective: The Energy Guide on the largest LG washer shows that annual operating costs to be $14 with an electric water heater ($10 a year with gas). This is a very small amount of money and a very tiny difference. I'm sure the ASKO is similar.

Consider the tankless with your eyes open - but get the facts... not the FUD that Fixizin is dishing out.

Your casual tossing around of the "FUD" pejorative implies that the issue is clear cut, and the economics overwhelming, yet they are NOT. Oh, wait... you're "in" the tankless industry, aren't you? Read on.

I'm sure tankless technology and total cost of ownership (TCO) has improved, marginally, over the years, and will continue to do so. The Ultra-NOx Condensing technology is impressive, and I need to learn more about it.

That said, there is also no doubt that an unholy alliance of "green" .gov bureaucracies, TANKLESS MFRS/Distributors, and perhaps even the plumbers' union, is selling tankless into existing homes, without FULLY detailing the costs involved... endless stories of "gotchas".

In many, many, heck, MOST cases, the "break even" cost point vs. conventional NEVER arrives. Rinnai's own calculator--specific to my (sub-tropical) zip code--says I'll only save $61/year on my gas bill--AYFKM? Do we really need to load up a spreadsheet to see how many DECADES, at that rate, it will take to recover the much higher purchase price (CapEx) and INSTALL costs?? (incl. time-value of money to make it even more painful)

I mean, Crikey, the OP of *this* thread has a ~ $300 WH that's been perking along for almost a QUARTER OF A CENTURY, w/ zero $40 cleaning kits, zero $385(?) impeller/sensor/controller replacements! And guess what? It DROPPED RIGHT INTO the same footprint, flue, gas line, and plumbing as the PREVIOUS 20+ year old unit!... down time: 2 hours. Ouch.

If I read your personal anecdote correctly, you're claiming your tankless installation reached "break even" after 6 years. >>Feel free to provide the data.The over-a-decade trend of falling natural gas prices makes the ROI for tankless move even farther out in time.

Those here in Hurricane Alley, who have been WEEKS without electric power, will also be a tough crowd to sell on electric-dependent tankless... just sayin'...

Fixizin,

You have made a lot of leaps in logic and conjecture. You only have to read my posts on here to know my situation and know that I'm not in any way involved in the tankless industry.

The truth is that my water heater started "paying back" from the moment it was installed because the cost was virtually the same as the power vent heater I was considering. I have an old house with an unlined masonry flue. When I went to a condensing furnace, my 15 year old water heater was no longer vented to code. I could line the flue, or I could vent out the sidewall.

I purchased my Rheem tankless, valve kit and vent kit online for a total of ~$900. I had probably $60 in pipe and fittings. I did do the work myself. I got a $200 tax credit and a $100 utility rebate if I remember correctly. That leaves only a difference of $260 over a $400 gas tank water heater (which I couldn't use anyway without lining the flue).

Does everyone get by that cheap?.. no. But if you look up my posts you will see that I am clear about keeping installed costs in check. There's no reason for some of the over-priced installed costs -- particularly on new installs where you have to consider the cost of the traditional flue vs sidewall venting PVC. Replacing the service can be a deal breaker.

The cleaning kit was a small pump, hoses and a bucket and will last a lifetime. I clean the heater using a couple gal of vinegar every couple years. As I said, I see that as a plus - you can't clean a tank heater.

That business about not having hot water in a power outage is more FUD. Look, it's not been a problem in 7 years, and when the power goes out, my first instinct isn't to jump in the shower. It might mean I would go over to a friend / family member's home for a shower if it went on a long time or I could just heat water on the stove.

Look, I love having a low gas bill (not just the tankless, but the furnace, insulation, etc.) I don't really have to worry about what the price of gas does too much. I also like the fact that I'm not wasting energy and contributing a little less to environmental problems.

Rheem+appurtenances for $900-$960??... if you say so. Still, Rinnai seems to be "the bar to meet", and I don't see any of them for my app that are even close to 3-figures. But even at your idealized deal + my-labor-is-free-if-I-don't-value-it, I'd still be looking at a 10-year ROI.

you can't clean a tank heater.

Actually, you CAN, but, the salient point here is: YOU DON'T HAVE TO--ever--hooRAY! More sailing, more skiing, more ____ing!

I got a $200 tax credit and a $100 utility rebate...

HUGE part of the scam and "unholy alliance" right there--picking everyone ELSE's pocket to goose your lobby... and lobby-ists.

There's no reason for some of the over-priced installed costs...

So ensconced in the "DIY elite" worldview, I don't even know what to say... is "over-priced" anything over your own FREE labor?... Plumbers and roofers and electricians and carpenters shouldn't be paid?

oh, BTW: you did, umm, you know... PULL THE REQUIRED PERMITS for your Rheem job, right?

That business about not having hot water in a power outage is more FUD. Look, it's not been a problem in 7 years, and when the power goes out, my first instinct isn't to jump in the shower. It might mean I would go over to a friend / family member's home for a shower...

Lulz... you've never lived in a HVHZ... and you never should. Friend? Family? I'm not talking about a power outage you hear about on TV, I'm talking about a power outage you can see from SPACE! When the eye of Wilma passed over my zip code, there was no power for *45 miles* in any direction! (14 days at my house)

But medical personnel, cell phone technicians, UTILITY LINEMEN, cops, firefighters, paramedics, propane distributors, and parcel delivery peeps (among MANY others) still had to report to work. Just how smelly (and UNsanitary) do you want your nurses, docs, and x-ray techs? No salving showers for the out-of-state lineman working 15 hours a day/7 days a week, to reboot civilization? Sorry, NO SALE on that tankless EXCUSE.

Natural gas infrastructure, largely underground (and therefore a nightmare in serious earthquakes), is unaffected by windstorms. This makes it an extremely valuable resource during the "bootstrapping" process... why put something on the end of the pipe that blocks access? At least keep your TANKed WH Y-plumbed over to the side... just in case.

... if it went on a long time or I could just heat water on the stove. A GAS stove... with electronic ignition? ;')

I also like the fact that I'm not wasting energy and contributing a little less to environmental problems.

Did someone add vodka to the Kool-Aid? You're blithely ignoring the extra energy and POLLUTION necessary to build tankless. Suggest you go "in-depth" on the chemical wastes just from printed-circuit board manufacture... then on to the additional exotic materials and tech NOT found on conventional WHs.

Dude, when the other guy said you were a troll, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore.

Clearly you have more invested in arguing than you care about helping people or even pursuing rational thought.

This kind of nonsense was going on in this forum years ago, and thank goodness has been little of it lately.