Good Luck Mindy! Laurie, what a great use of spent blinds!

Update: Momma made great progress again yesterday. She hardly howled or cried last night, and was a bit playful too. She loves looking out the window and for a change of pace I carried her to our bedroom where she sat perched on the window seat, looking outside. She even came and snoozed next to me while I watched TV. Carrying her is no problem...she's a mush with no wriggling or anything.

She is frightened of hubby, but that will work out in time once she spends more time with him.

I brought her back to the guest room and we had a fairly quiet night. She snuggled often, and loves being pet. She's got a habit of thrownig herself down to accept my petting.

This morning I brought her back to our bedroom where she stayed while I got ready for work. in the interim, my tuxedo Boxer investigated the guest room, spending a bit of time at her litter box where Momma's poop (yeah, finally) was on display.

I am going to get some gates this weekend and see how that works out. I am absolutely over the moon that she is adjusting so well.

Thank you all for your encouragement. Talk soon.
Sue

Sue,

I am so jealous of your progress!

Ruby appears to have 4-5 favorite hiding places in my basement. They are all in different rooms of sort.
I'm wondering how possible it might be to chase her into the
furthest back room, where I have the carrier set up under the shelves, and contain her in that room somehow, hoping she will flee into the back of the carrier, and I can follow her and shut the carrier door. My sneaking suspicion is that she's now afraid of that carrier because that's what she went to and from the vet in. Maybe if I buy a new one that smells different?
Anytime I go looking for her, and find her, she's flees, hiding somewhere else, so I'm getting a bit frustrated on how I'm going to capture her again. Holding her at this point is only a dream....

Sue, you're going to have an easy time of it with Momma. I bet all you need to do now is give her 7-10 days to heal from the spay, then start bringing her out of her room for supervised visits with the other cats. You'll have her integrated into your household in no time.

Mindy, I know it's difficult, but try not to compare Ruby with Momma. Momma is a mature cat who is already very tame and comfortable with human contact. Ruby is a kitten with a shy nature and a lot less life experience to fall back on for security and understanding. Once you get her back into a more controlled environment, you'll be able to start over with her. It's so hard to stay positive when things just aren't going the way you want them to. You know I know what that's like. I can't count the number of times I considered giving up on Mew and Phantom when I just couldn't seem to get past their fear and hatred. You just have to keep your eye on the ultimate prize and KNOW in your heart that you'll get there with Ruby some day.

You might be right about the carrier. Try giving it a real good scrubbing to remove any of the fear hormones that she may have released into the carrier on the way to the vet's. Then put in a fresh, fluffy towel sprinkled with catnip leaves and cover the carrier with a blanket to disguise its outward appearance. Put a little bowl with some warmed up, smelly, fish-flavored canned cat food in the back of the carrier and leave it there overnight. With any luck at all, she'll either be in that carrier in the morning or at least have gone into it long enough to eat the food. I'd keep trying that for a couple of days before trying to chase her into the carrier.

It wouldn't hurt to borrow that live trap again and do the same thing with it, too - scrub it, cover it, and bait it with warmed up, smelly food before you go to bed at night. You never know; it might work. Can't hurt, anyway.

Keep your chin up, Mindy. This will all work out.

Laurie

Please don't get discouraged, Mindy, it will work out..Laurie had great advice....We're rooting for you!

Mindy,

These babies are all different so don't be discouraged by Momma's progress (shes not eating now which concerns me)

I used food as a tool to get them to come close, to trust me, and to ultimately trap them so they would have a good home. get her good and hungry and then try using food as a lure.

Everyone here is rooting for you and Ruby!

Sue

Sue, how long has Momma been refusing food? Is she drinking water? Can you take her temp to see if she's running a fever? How do her litterbox deposits look? How is she acting?

Laurie,

she ate this morning at 8:00 and when I got home at around 6;00 she wasn't at all interested in the food I brought her... She's was just focused on the window then went under the bed.

she did two very nice poops, one while i was in here earlier before she got out. very healthy poops i must say.

She appears better now, is interacting more (Boxer just tried to get in the room and she was on high alert).

She slipped past me earlier tonight and went exploring (I just might name her Dora). she and my other baby Boxer kept company under the dining room table about 4 feet apart for about 15 minutes, then she went exploring again. me and Boxer were on the couch and my husband and our Sophie were on the chair.

Boxer, who is normally very laid back, hissed at her a few times. I called it at that point and brought her back upstairs.

Boxer is actually very protective of his Sophie and last time we tried to bring a cat in, he terrorized her to the point where she wouldn't come out from under the couch and even pooped there in order not to come out and face him. i believe that was my fault because I rushed things.

My Dad adopted her and she is a beautiful kitty (his ex has her now)i am fearful this will happen again and will be more careful to not let her get out.

Momma Dora is sleeping next to me right now. She didn't finish her food but she did eat half of it.

Sue

Sue, that's exactly why I use a harness and leash when making face to face introductions between cats. It keeps the newbie close to me and gives me complete control over the interactions. If one of the cats misbehaves, I can quickly take the newbie out of the situation before irreparable damage is done to the budding relationship. Keeping the newbie that close also gives me the opportunity to issue reprimands to misbehaving resident cats to let them know that aggressive behavior toward the newbie will not be tolerated.

Once the cats are largely ignoring each other while the newbie is out of her room on-leash, I'll drop the leash and allow newbie to drag it around the house at will. That gives the cat more freedom but still makes her an easy catch if trouble breaks out. If all goes well with the leash dragging, I'll remove the leash and keep the harness on until I am satisfied that household peace has been restored. Then I'll remove the harness, too. Of course neither harness nor leash are ever on the cat unsupervised. This whole harness/leash process can take anywhere from several hours to several weeks depending on the feline personalities involved. In your case, it might even be advisable to put the harness and leash on Boxer, since he's the one with the history of aggressive behavior toward newbies.

Even after you have integrated Momma Dora into your household, I caution you against leaving them alone together unattended until you are CERTAIN that the resident cats have made peace with her. Even after three years, I have to put Feather in my bedroom before I leave the house because he will still attack several of the other cats if left unattended. Cats learn very quickly under what circumstances they can get away with causing trouble, and you don't want Momma being harrassed in your absence.

Laurie

Thank you Laurie. How long should I wait until putting the harness on? She just had her surgery Monday.

She is still not back to her Wednesday playfulness and snuggliness. She did another poo early this morning but it was loose. She didn't seem interested in her food either, so I just put a little wet food out and some dry food, but very little. She did sleep on the bed, but didn't welcome my offers to pet her.

Sometime around 5:00 this morning she threw up. There was a hairball in there, so I wasn't too concerned - should I be? I cleaned things up but after that she stayed under the bed.

I also relocated her to our bedroom so she can sit comfortably in the window seat and get use to another room, also so the resident cats can explore her scent in the guest room.

She did get past me again this morning, but knowing she likes to climb the screen on my back door, I opened it and that's where I nabbed her after about 10 very long minutes. She had one hissing encounter with Boxer, but I admonished him and he stayed back.

I get the feeling that she wants to come out and that leaving her alone all day in the room is becoming an issue for her. I know I need to keep her safe and that sequestering her protects her, but I feel that might be contributing to the problem.

With the weekend here I get to spend more time with her, but tell me what should I focus my time on this weekend? Walking her around the house (if its ok to put a harness on her)? Introducing her to new areas of the house where she can roam free without the other cats distracting her?

I am so lost, I can't imagine how the poor baby feels if this is how I feel.

Sue

Sue, it's very common for a cat to develop temporary digestive issues when they experience a dramatic dietary change, as Momma did when you brought her inside. Also, the drugs and vaccinations she was given at the vet probably upset some internal balances. What brand of dry food are you feeding her right now? If it's a high fat, high protein food like Evo or Core, change it to something low fat and lower protein until her tummy upset resolves. If necessary, you can pick up some bland food from your vet to help Momma through this dietary transition. It'll also help if you buy some acidophilus capsules at your local health food store and sprinkle a little on her food.

If she doesn't eat for the rest of today, you should take her to the vet for a check tomorrow. Cats can develop serious liver disease if they don't eat, so it's important to get something into her.

Since she's clearly not feeling well at the moment, this is not the time you want to be exposing her to your other cats. She feels physically weakened and defensive, and the other cats will sense her vulnerability which could promote aggression on their parts. Wait until Momma is fully recovered from the spay and vaccinations (1-2 weeks) and until she is acting normal and not hiding under the bed. Then you can safely start the leash visits.

If you put up baby gates, that'll help diminish her feelings of isolation considerably. It makes a HUGE difference when they can look out and see at least some of what is going on outside of their room. And it'll give Boxer the chance to get his hissies out without physical altercation.

Although you do want to let Boxer know that aggression toward Momma is not allowable, you also have to be very careful not to give Boxer and your other girl the impression that they have been replaced or that Momma has been given a higher social ranking than they have. Spend lots of time with Boxer, reassuring him that he is still top cat. And if the residents are used to sleeping in your bedroom at night, continue to give them that space and keep Momma in the guest bedroom. Displaced cats can get angry, and you don't want to inadvertently fuel that emotion in Boxer.

You're doing fine, Sue, but you're stressing too much. I know you hate that things aren't all peachy and perfect yet with your feline family, but they will be. Just take one step at a time. Right now, you need to give Momma some more time to get strong and healthy before pushing the integration any further.

Laurie

Thanks Laurie. I feel better already knowing I have you folks to point me in the right direction and allay my fears.

I'll let you know how it turns out. I think I'll be having a martini tonight!

Sue

Hi all,

Just wanted to give a quick update on our progress, but first a shout out to Mindy and Ruby...hope all is well with you Mindy, let us know what's going on.

Momma Dora has some new items to keep her busy, the first of which are the gates that now fill the doorway of the guest room. They're pretty scary looking but not enough to discourage scaling. miss Dora was up pretty much all night, the majority of the time climbing and jumping off the gates.

She was very affectionate last night (and into this morning)and very playful. In between repeated visits to the window (getting a window seat for the guest room tomorrow), attempts to escape by climbing the gates, she ran circles around my sleepy body stopping often to get pet. in between activities, she slept or reclined at the bottom of the bed.

Her appetite is ok but not great; her stool is no longer loose.

She now has some toys but doesn't appear to be interested in them. The carpeted scratch post and little round-thing-with-ball-on-a-track (that her kittens next door love) just doesn't grab her attention.

She's under the bed as I type, which I can't understand, but I guess she needs that right now.

My other babies are not coming to visit (well, Boxer came by last night bt didn't stay too long, and Sophie is not at all interested), which is a bit frustrating. I am going to take her down to our basement level later, which she will find quite comfortable and lots of places to explore. She can also get a good whiff of the resident cats down there as they spend a good deal of time lounging on the sectional while enjoying a movie.

I bet she goes right for the window sill.

More to follow.

sue

Sounds like Dora's on the mend, though she might have made her belly incision a bit sore with all of that gate climbing and jumping last night. Just make sure she doesn't open up that healing incision with all the extra activity. I'm glad that Dora's stool has normalized and her appetite is adequate.

Buy some dried catnip and rub it into the Turbo Scratcher's pad. That might get her interested in it. None of my cats have much interest in carpeted scratching posts. They much prefer sisal rope-wrapped posts or corrugated cardboard scratchers. They also like rough lumber or firewood for scratching. I have found that cats who have not been raised with manmade toys often ignore them at first. Sometimes they're even afraid of toys. Interactive toys like the fishing pole types and laser pointers can usually bring out their inner kitten eventually.

Don't worry about the other cats. If they want to check out Dora, they have that option. If not, they'll get to know her soon enough when she starts her leash visits. Either way, things'll work out just fine. Just give Dora a bit more time for her belly to finish healing. You're doing great so far!

Mindy, how is our little Ruby these days? Any luck getting close enough to touch her again?

Laurie

Glad for the update...It's sounds like little Dora is going to be quite a love....You and she are making great progress...
Hope all is well with Mindy and Ruby.....

De-clawing is something you never want to do with ANY cat- but with a feral its a surefire way to get bit, as ferals by nature are nervous. Also because you got her young enough Dora should be like any other cat.

Good luck.

Ruby is a smart kitten. Most of her hiding places in the basement that she frequented, I could access her at them. (i.e get close to her) so she found an area that I have a couple of old dressers and things stacked on them so I can't get back actually into them. She's now hiding under there, way out of reach. Last night I started rummaging around back there and she took off back to under the shelf on the opposite side of the basement, but I just let her be.
My boyfriend brough over a different trap, but this one is considerably smaller than the one I originally caught her in. I'm just thinking she's not going to go for it at all.
So where Ruby is concerned, not a darn thing has changed. I'll keep trying.

Mindy

It might be time to take a more proactive approach to recapturing Ruby and getting her back in the office. I hate to see her becoming more reclusive down in the basement. Can you spook her out from behind the old dressers and then plug up access behind them so she can't get back there again? Then you can do what you were considering a few days ago and see if you can herd her into the carrier or trap (perhaps use a broom to help direct her into the carrier). Or maybe you can borrow a pair of welding gloves or heavy fireplace gloves from someone and see if you can catch her by hand. You might even try tossing a large towel or sheet over her to temporarily "blind" her so that you can quickly scoop her up and take her back to the office.

Don't give up, Mindy. You can do this.

Laurie

Yes I agree Laurie. I told Ruby when I went home at lunch to enjoy her last day in the basement as she was leaving it when I got home from work!
I have a couple of ideas on trying to catch her. If one fails, I will try the other.
The boyfriend and I have a standing Monday evening date at my house for dinner. He will be helping me capture her. One way or the other, I plan on getting her tonight. She will be forced out of where she is and into either the cage or if she dodges that, into the little back room where she hides under the shelf, where the carrier will be waiting.

Mindy

Mindy

Much to Ruby's dismay, I won. I got her out of the basement. Let me tell you, it was no easy feat. In the end, she seriously gave up and walked into the carrier. She's going to hate me for a long time, I know it.
I can't believe it's been close to a month since I originally caught her. We are a LONG way off from where I envisioned us at his point.
I feel so sorry for her. I know she's terrified. Hopefully it's not a huge setback. I also took lots of the clothes out of the office closet so it is harder for her to hide wrapped up in them like before. I used to have to pull back and separate the dresses to see her. Now I have a nice basket in there with a comfy pillow in it tucked in the back for her to lay on.
I'm stressed out, she's stressed out. It's time for bed....

Just wanted to share the news...

Mindy

Good job, Mindy! I know you and Ruby had a horribly stressful night, but at least she's back where she'll have the opportunity to slowly acclimate and eventually integrate into your family without feeling the need to hide in terror in the basement. Yes, it's likely to take a while to earn her trust after her basement interlude, but you can do it with time and patience. Just keep your eye on the long term goal and try not to lose faith when she takes one step forward and two steps back. Progress and regress are both parts of the process.

You've regained some control of the situation, and that's a HUGE step forward. Now get some sleep, and in the morning tell little Ruby that it's a brand new, wonderful day!

Congratulations!

Laurie

Good luck to you. You're doing an admirable thing. I didn't think she'd give you this much trouble but she'll come around. Trust me..I know ferals and even my two sisters were different. One acclimated nicely with everyone and the other only with me. Ruby's worth the fight.

Mindy,

I've been following your story and want to congratulate you on taking this baby into your home.

I have a suggestion that worked for me with a feral and badly injured cat (dog bite on her back)who was absolutely terrified of people. If you have the time, you might try spending a few minutes each day quietly sitting in the office reading or doing something else non-threatening (no sudden moves) and laying a trail of something really yummy (like deli turkey that leads from the closet to you). Don't move if and when she approaches you but talk quietly to her. Increase the time you spend sitting quietly each day and keep offering the treats.

I think if you can make a commitment to do this each day, you'll find she comes around fairly quickly. Don't even try to pet her until she crawls into your lap looking for more yummy goodies.

At this point, you want everything about you to be associated with good stuff.

Also, when putting her food and water down and cleaning her litter box totally ignore her. Don't make eye contact; just make it strictly business.

I guess what I'm trying to say is be available on her terms and don't force the issue.

Once she's really comfy with you, then would be the time to slowly introduce her to the rest of the family members (human and furkids).

You can do this, I know you can!

Lastly, don't get discouraged. You did a great thing by getting her out of the basement. Yay for you!

Good luck and hang in there.

edwinna

I will post every few days and let all who are interested know how things are going. I doubt I'll have much to report for a while.
I'm surprised she ate last night. As stressed out as she was, I anticipated finding her bowl still full this morning, but it was empty. She was up and about. Since the office is right next to my room, and I'm a very light sleeper anyway, I could hear her jumping up and down off things from 2-6 AM, crying off and on, even banging a little against the baby gate wall. i'm not sure the basket I have in the closet is going to work for her to sleep in. It was knocked completely over this morning when I went in to clean out her literbox. Maybe I will buy her one of those little cat beds. She deserves it with all I've put her through.
Edwinna, good idea about the turkey. I'll have to try that. I do try and sit and talk with her a couple times everyday. I will make sure to keep doing that.

Mindy

Way to go Mindy! My mantra is 'patience, patience, patience'. I can't tell you how many times I want to give up, but I know I have to do my very best.

I've got a couple of things troubling me...one of which is Dora and the other her kittens.

Momma Dora is doing ok. She is very fiesty. She made it past me the other night and spent several hours hanging with the other cats. There was some rumblings, but for the most part they were fine. She still looks out the windows and doors longingly, and I know once she has free reign she will bolt out the floor at the first opportunity but I know she'll want to come back in which will be a dilemma.

At midnight, when I couldn't corner her, I gave up and went to bed. I awoke around 4:00 am to a low rumble and found her lying next to me on her favorite pillow, will my tuxedo Boxer staring up at us. I scooted him off and we went back to sleep.

I am finding that she is getting more physical, she now wriggles out of my arms when I do manage to get her, and likes to bite my feet when I'm sleeping. She's also 'playful' and often throws herself on her back and when I pet her she grabs at me, and sometimes those claws are out.

I had a cat that bit me all the time, but I knew him...her I don't know and its bothering me.

She also scratches everything in site,. She will walk around the bed and put her claws into the mattress, and I have seen her do this with furniture too. That is just not going to fly in my house. I have nice stuff and I can't have her shred it. I'll have to see how she tolerates nail clippings and/or soft paws.

On another note, her kittens are not coming along as expected. My friend and her husband and son are very discouraged that the cats aren't responding positively to them. I called a friend of a friend, who has been trapping strays for years, and she went over with her friend who has the same, if not more experience.

They got the kittens and handled them (these kittens know when someone means business), however my friend and her family are unable to capture them and handle them the same way.

My friend is beside herself because she feels time is slipping away and the possibility of hand taming them is diminishing exponentially each day. She wants to put the time in but cant because of very recent major surgery on her foot, and her husband and son run out of patience quickly.

I suggested she 'hire' the cat ladies who already said they'd be happy to help, but she's concerned she at the point of diminishing returns. Considering she's only had them for less than two weeks I think that statement is premature. I am actually quite annoyed since I found the time to acclimate the kittens, spending hours on end sitting on my patio, talking softly, and gaining their trust. Now everyone wants an instant miracle.

She and her husband are our dearest friends, so we'll survive this...however I am putting everything I have into Dora on little sleep and working full time, I can't help but be annoyed that she's already talking about putting them in a shelter and she is resisting any suggestion to improve things. Its either handle them (whether you or someone who comes into do it)or give them up. Those are the choices. She has to live with the decision and whether or not she and her family really gave them their best shot. Yeesh, sorry. I am so burnt out and really have no patience for humans right now.

Anyway, that's where I am at today.

Mindy, hang in there, even through the crankiness and setbacks. Just do your best...its all we can do.

Sue

Sue,

Unfortunately, a precious few people have the compassion and commitment that you and Mindy have where animals are concerned. Most people in this country are conditioned to expect and demand instant gratification, and when they don't get it, they give up and move on to the next event, project, or possession.

When dealing with living animals, regardless of their background, we are dealing with evolutionary beings. Not only are they constantly evolving as a species, but they are constantly evolving as individuals when they grow, mature, and experience life. Dora is becoming more and more comfortable with you, bringing you closer into her trusted inner circle, which is why she feels safe enough to play with you more aggressively. Apparently your trust level isn't rising quite as quickly as hers is, though, since you're uncomfortable with her play behavior. Try to relax with her, Sue, and if her playfulness crosses the line with too many claws, just blow hard in her face to back her off. She'll learn her boundaries if you're consistent in setting them.

Even my older cats go through behavioral phases. All of a sudden one of them will become abnormally affectionate for a while, or another will go through a particularly playful period. Right now I'm having aggression problems between cats who have never exhibited that behavior before. Such is the nature of individuals. They aren't psychologically stagnant. Keeps life interesting. Who knows who Dora will be next week? This is part of the joy of having these animals in our lives.

As far as clawing the furniture is concerned, you're on the right track with nail clipping and trying Soft Claws. Since scratching is an instinct you're not going to be able to eliminate, you need to make sure you provide as many acceptable scratching surfaces as possible for her. Different cats have different scratching preferences, so it's important to provide a variety of surfaces and orientations to satisfy them. Get both tall upright posts and horizontal scratching pads. The surfaces most frequently preferred by my own cats are sisal rope, corrugated cardboard, and rough lumber (or firewood). Put the scratchers all around your house, and rub catnip leaves into them to attract the cats to them.

Once you've provided a variety of acceptable scratching surfaces, then you can start enforcing rules about UNacceptable surfaces like furniture. A water squirt bottle or water pistol is usually an effective deterrent. Double sided sticky tape applied to the unacceptable surfaces is also very effective and can be removed once Dora learns where she is not allowed to scratch. A loud, "NO!" and clapping of hands also generally stops misbehavior, though you might not want to employ that strategy while she's still in the bonding phase of your relationship.

You and Dora are doing just fine, Sue. Every new relationship is an exploration of souls. You and Dora have just started to scratch the surface.

Laurie

Sue, It sounds like you're making progress and like the others have said, patience....And it sounds like your friends don't have that patience....How old are the kittens? They might have to do the same thing you've done...Put the kittens in 1 room, leave them there and spend as much time in that room as they can...My last furbabies were trapped at about 3 months and they lived in my laundry room for months...And I think I lived in that room just as long...I'd sit, crochet, read, listen to CDs, just sit there and talk to them, let them get used to me...It was a long time before I had those babies on my lap, which was the happiest day...I'd hate to see them take those babies to a shelter, but if they have to give them up, maybe find a foster family that could take them in...
THEN, I was thinking, would you be able to bring the babies into your house? It would be another adjustment, but maybe mom would settle down and babies would thrive....She's probably still worried or thinking about those babies and it might help....BUT on the other hand, she might not even recognize them....Just a thought....
I wish I lived close by, I'd grab those kittens in a minute...Might loose my happy home, but I'd love to have babies in the house again....
Good luck!

Thanks guys for talking me down. I just called my friend and offered to take the kittens over the weekend to see if I could work with them with or without Momma.

I am so frustrated because she's arguing with me that by me working with them doesn't help her or her family although my thinking is that if they become comfortable being handled by me, its a minor leap for them to be comfortable with her family (one husband, one son 22 years old). After all, I was the one who acclimated them to being fed by hand and was able to touch them while they ate!!! Am I wrong about this?

She said the men are simply not willing to put in the time, so I offered to do it since she's laid up. Now she's arguing that it won't help...I give up. I can't see it hurting...can it?

I figure if the only remaining choices are to give them up or work at it, and she's resisting any assistance to work at it.

I even discussed Irishdancers post above, and still nothing - just an argument that no one is willing to do anything. It's friggin not even two weeks!

If I didn't know her better I'd think she was looking for an excuse to get rid of them.

I am so done.

Sue

Just one more question...

Would it be helpful, or would it be a hinderance, to separate the kittens. I could take the more agressive one and try to cclimate him at my house (with or without Momma knowing?), and my friend can focus on the other one who has always been easier to touch.

Just a thought.

s

Sue, I know you're trying everything you can think of to help, but I don't think that bringing the kitten or kittens over to your house for the weekend is a good idea. They've already been through enough upheaval and change recently. I'm afraid that moving them repeatedly from house to house is just going to fray their nerves and eliminate any sense of security that they may be establishing in their current home. Unless you're willing to adopt them both permanently, I think they're better off staying where they are and you trying to convince your friend to let you help socialize them in her own home.

Also, I think it's a very bad idea to bring the kitten(s) back to Dora unless you decide to adopt them permanently. And if you bring the kitten(s) into your house without giving them to Dora, she'll still know they're there by the scent. The trauma of being repeatedly reunited and separated is likely to be very hard on all three felines.

Unless you want to permanently adopt both kittens yourself, I think that perhaps the best you can do for them is to find them another home where they will be better understood.

I'm sorry that things haven't worked out the way you anticipated for them.

Laurie

I really was trying to think of anything to help her, and appreciate you setting me on track. In the interim I had
contacted the cat rescuer who, under the guise of 'checking in to see how they progressed since her visit', convinced my friend to call the other rescue lady who helped her the other night...my friend agreed.

My feelings are so raw right now...perhaps whats best is to just get a good nights sleep, assuming Moma Dora won't be traumatized by my absence, and stay away from the topic for a couple of days.

Thanks for your help Laurie and Irish, and everyone else who has chimed in.

Mindy, hang in there. Its worth it to know you're doing the best you can to help a little soul.

s

it's Saturday morning and although I have gotten some sleep (I stayed with Momma Dora, just can't leave her alone all day AND all night)things haven't progressed much on my end. As a matter of fact, they've gotten a bit worse.

Regarding the kittens... I have given myself a little time away from them and my friend, which is kinda hard because they live next door, but the rescue lady came and put them in a cage so they would be more accessible. Last I heard on Thursday, they were hissing when anyone went in to touch them after the woman left. Since I don't really know what I am doing, I am leaving it to my friend to consult the rescue woman.

Momma however, had a setback...she got past me yesterday (I practically kill myself everytime I have to go in or out of the room with the friggin gates) and got into a very big fight provoked by my very large tuxedo, Boxer. It was horrible.

He did this before to another cat we tried to adopt. He is usually very mild mannered, and is second in command to the queen of the house, his girl Sophie. He is also very attached to me. I can't believe he is the same cat when he turns like this.

Poor Momma was just went under her bed and didn't come out until sometime during the night when she decided it was playtime.

Boxer immediately got a scolding (i was possessed) and was put in the basement for a time out.

My husband, tolerant throughout this whole 3-month saga warned me that Boxer had done this before and just wasn't going to tolerate a new cat and that I should seriously consider releasing her or bringing her to a shelter for adoption.

I cried for hours not knowing the right thing is to do, but holding fast to my commitment to give this a month before making any decisions.

I am planning to get the harness today, but since I am no expert on this, I don't know if I should reintroduce them again or just leave things for a while. momma doesn't want to be locked in a room, nice or not, all the time. she just wants to go outside. yesterday I needed to air out the guest room as it gets a little stinky in there (she doesn't cover her poo well.

I engaged the window stops so it couldn't be forced open more than the two inches and I observed her trying to squeeze her head through it, so closed them before I left, not comfortable that she wouldn't hurt herself trying.

Anyway, I keep thinking that it has only been 12 days, there's so much more time to make things work. At this point I don't know if I believe myself anymore.

s

Sue, Please don't give up, you really are doing the a great job, Dora doesn't know that, but you are....
One of my cats, Clancy, will not accept one of our girls...He was a feral, (his momma still lives on our patio) and I rescued the girls when they were 3 months old...He was fine when they were living in the laundry room but I guess
he figures, they don't need to be upstairs "in his house"...He gets along fine with the smaller one, Kelly, but poor Kaley gets a paw and a hiss almost every time she walks by...She is so lovable, follows him around, wants to be friends and he swats her...He gets a sharp No and even the water bottle and it helps for a short time...I don't think we'll ever be able to figure out the mind of a cat!

Laurie, what do you think about the products on the market that "settle" a cat..I've never used any, but I've seen posts by others...Maybe something like that would help...

Hang in there, Sue....

irishdancersgram, I've tried Rescue Remedy on a few animals in the past and have never observed any noticeable effects, though a lot of people swear by it. It's apparently one of those products that works beautifully for some animals and not at all for others. I've never tried Comfort Zone/Feliway, but my vet tells me that it's effective in reducing stress-related behaviors in about 50% of cats. That's anecdotal based on feedback from his clients. Still, Comfort Zone/Feliway might be worth trying in Sue's household. It might just help calm both Boxer and Dora. I'm not sure about little Ruby, though. She might not be old enough to be affected by the pheromones in Comfort Zone/Feliway. Wouldn't hurt to try, though.

Sue, I'm sorry that Boxer's being such a pill. Unfortunately, I know what that's like, too. It's not easy living with those "explosive device" types. That's why I keep antibiotics on hand. Several of my boys are prone to getting into nasty physical fights every now and then.

I do think it's time to start bringing Dora out into the rest of the house for visits. I can't decide, though, whether it would be better to put the harness and leash on her or on Boxer. It's obviously Boxer's behavior that needs to be controlled, but if you can convince him to keep his distance while you have Dora on-leash, that'd probably be preferable. You don't want to give Boxer any more reason to resent Dora, and the leash may just irritate him further.

Be forewarned that cats hate harnesses and leashes. It'll probably make Dora nervous at first, and you may find that you have to carry her to wherever you want her to be, then set her down and let her explore to the end of the leash. Just don't let her get far enough away from you that Boxer has a chance to attack her. If Dora decides she wants to walk around, go ahead and let her lead you wherever she wants to go. Try not to put any tension on the leash or harness. Keep some slack in the leash while you follow her around unless she looks like she may be headed for trouble.

If Dora is very nervous being out in Boxer's territory, just hold her on your lap for a few minutes at a time, then return her to her room. As long as Boxer does not have the opportunity to attack her, she'll eventually relax and want to start exploring again. You're just going to have to keep a very close eye on that boy and give him time to get used to seeing Dora out of her room. Hopefully once he realizes that Dora is not a threat to him or his girlfriend, he'll be more accepting of her presence.

I've only had one cat who was so terrified of the harness and leash that I couldn't use them on him. Luckily, he was also a very submissive cat who didn't have the nerve to try to start trouble with anyone else, so I let him explore without restraint but with me keeping a very close eye on the other cats to make sure no one tried to get nasty with him.

Sue, 12 days is barely a drop in the bucket of time, and it's not enough time for Dora's residual hormones to have dissipated from her system. That may be part of what's triggering Boxer's aggression right now. You can get this integration back on track by making sure you have complete control via the harness and leash of all face to face interactions between the cats. Remember that if you can't keep Boxer at bay with Dora on-leash, then put the harness and leash on Boxer, instead, while Dora explores the house freely. He might just need that sort of imposed control to reinforce the fact that you are Top Cat in your household, and what you say, goes!

Keep the faith.

Laurie

Thanks for the direction Irish and Laurie.

Somehow I managed to forget the harness when I went to Petco, but think for tonight i will put the resident cats in the basement and let Momma Dora roam for a while.

I did speak to a rescue woman at Petco who was there with her fur babies trying to get them adopted. I explained my difficulty with Momma and she said to give it more time, as we all know, but to know that in the end if this cat wants out, then I shouldn't feel guilty about letting her out. Just to keep feeding her and give her shelter. Although I know that, having read up on TNR, it did give me a sense of peace that I won't be a horrible person if I end up having to release her. but its way to early to be talking about that, not when I have one rather angelic looking sleeping tortie nearby...

I decided that i can't 'sleep' with her in the guest room any more because i am not getting any sleep. Last night she discovered the door stop and all I heard for 30 minutes was BOING...BOING...BOING. When she wasn't playing with that, she was playing with her ball-on-a-track toy or scratching at her new sisal rug or biting my feet so I'd play or jumping in and out of the window a billion times.

After finally getting to sleep around 5AM, I awoke at 8:30 to her little face lying 3 inches away from me...staring at me. she willed me awake because the little girl was hungry!

We had dinner with our friends last night and the kittens seem to remember me fine. i fed them by hand for a while, talking to them and regaining their trust. We didn't try to handle them, but made plans to do that this morning.

I went over there at 10:00 AM and within 20 minutes, I had the tuxedo Figaro firmly in hand. I held and pet him a while and although he tried to bolt every chance he could, he really was very good. I handed him over to his mommy and there he sat for a while longer. In all, he was out of the cage for about 2 hours, being held, pet, and talked to the whole time.

Buster on the other hand, is too aggressive so i did not try to handle him He is actually going to boot camp for a week with the rescue woman. Her and her family will handle him and hopefully when he comes back he'll be more sociable. There is no alternative at this point but to separate them, because I thing there's just too much negative influence coming from Buster. Figaro has always been the more trusting of the two, and at this point Buster is just holding her back.

I'll go by there later at feeding time, and we'll handle Figaro again. I know this is stressful for the cat, so hopefully handling him two times in one day doesn't make things worse.

Anyway, that's the deal for now. Thanks again for your guidance, I'll keep you posted.

Hey Mindy, how's it going by you?

sue

Hi Sue and all,

Things with Ruby are slowly coming along. I see her out in the office room more, particularly when she thinks no one is upstairs. Any attempt to open the gate and come into the room will have her immediately dashing behind the dresser (her new hiding place instead of the closet) hiding again.

She loves to play with the toys! I have about 10 of them for her and she pays with them all night long. Sometimes it sounds like a war going on in the office!
When I come in to take care of her in the morning, I have to search the room to gather up all of the toys as they are scattered everywhere.
My dogs and cats sit and watch her a lot. She seems fine with letting them look at her, as long as I don't try to come in.
It's progress I know. Slow progress, but I'll take it.

I'll try to get a new picture of her soon. Since she comes out more, there's better opportunity now.
By the time I get to finally hold her, she's going to be a full grown cat!

Mindy

Mindy,
Perhaps you might consider finding a cat-rescue person and see if they would come to your home or take the cat for some boot camp.

I think it is the single best thing my friend did, and now Figaro is almost fully socialized, and his brother is going to get some one-on-one attention from an experienced cat-rescue family and hopefully will be fine too.

I ran into a lovely woman, much like the folks here in this forum, at Petco who was there with her cats, finding them homes. She's there every weekend. I know in this day and age we are wary to let people we don't know into our home, but for someone associated with a rescue operation I am sure you can get some references or do a little research if you're tentative about it.

The rescue person who is helping my friend is coming by today to get Buster. My friend offered some of her services (she's in the medical and hypnotherapy fields)in gratitude for what the woman is doing for her. If she had nothing to offer, she would have donated money or food to further the cause.

Jut something to think about.

s

Mindy, I'm so glad to hear that Ruby is spending more time out of hiding, playing with toys, and accepting the presence of your other animals. You're right; that's all progress! Since she is so playful, try what I did with Phantom. Sit on the floor on the hallway side of the baby gates and stick a wand toy through the gate from your side to see if you can lure her out of hiding to play with the wand. It may take a while, but that's how I eventually lured Phantom up to the gate so that I could stick my fingers through and let him touch me when he was ready.

It also helped A LOT when the other animals hung around with me while I sat on the floor on my side of the gates. A nervous newbie can gain a lot of confidence watching the way other animals react and respond to you.

Ruby will come around. The more time you can spend getting her used to your presence, the more quickly she'll figure out that you aren't a threat. She just needs more positive interactions with you to counteract the scary situations with which she associates you. Play is a great way to get that started.

You're doing great, both of you!

Laurie

Just as Laurie posted, you 2 are doing great...It's a shame we just can't tell these fur babies how much better life will be and they would understand. Of the 3, my Clancy will go out on the patio if the door is open, the girls run the other way...They want no part of that nasty world out there...
Sue, you mentioned the TNR program....Great program, I might add...We take care of 3 ferals that are part of that program...It's a shame more people don't know about it, we'd surely have a decrease in the unwanted fur babies...
Keep up the good work, you 2.....

Hey Irish, thanks for the good thoughts. I had Momma Dora's ear notched when they spayed her just on the off chance she had to be released. I guess no one but someone familiar with TNR would even know what her notch meant...I suspect they'd just think she got into a scrap with another animal.

Just wanted to give an update on Figaro and Buster who have...drum roll...crossed over to the other side!!! I easily got Figaro out of the cage and handled him off to his Daddy who cuddled him for a spell before handing him off to Mommy.

Then, at the suggestion of the cat rescue woman, I used a back scratcher to touch and scratch Buster (.99 each at the dollar store). I think it was a combination of him seeing his brother so content in mommy's arms and the nice feeling of the scratcher... At one point I scratched him with the scratcher with one hand, and pet him with my other..he was close to me and not backing away so i continued. Not sure he even knew the difference at first...and then...he became a big mush ball. I gently felt him out by cuddling his belly and then lifted him gently and that was that. he was limp as a wet noodle in my hand. We have never seen anything like it. It's almost like he just gave up the fight and couldn't deny how good it felt to be touched. I kept him out for a while and then returned him to the cage when i realized it was late and I had to get back to my baby for her nightly adventure.

Well, that pretty much made our day. We were stunned. When I left, he was in his cage whining to get out and Figaro was stretched out on Mommy's lap opening and closing her paws with contentment.

I think the key to this change in behavior was definitely the cage (all wire, removable bottom, collapsible) and the backscratcher. Of course persistence and patience played a part...but it is so much easier to get their attention when they're a captive audience.

As for Momma Dora, she is a maniac right now, toppling her bed, shooting her toys around the room, killing her ball-on-a-track toy, and attacking the velcro on my laptop cord. Glad I am sleeping in my room tonight because she's too wired for me to get a good night sleep. Too bad she wasn't this active before...the residents were in the basement and she had full reign of two floors but didn't venture down except for two short visits.

Got to go now so she can settle in. with any luck I won't hear her banging away across the hall. I really want to leave the door open so she can interact with the other cats through the gate. i can hear Boxer playing with his ball nearby...i think he's trying to get her attention!

More tomorrow. have a great night.
sue

I just love reading these posts....You 2 sound like passionate people, so full of love....These fur babies are so lucky to have come into your lives....Bless you both!

Got Figaro and Buster out two days in a row. figaro was so comfortable at one point, he was lying stretched out on his back in his mommy's arms. buster was the same wet noodle as he was the night before.

The rescue woman thinks a few more days of our intensive therapy will eliminate the need to send Buster to Boot Camp.

Momma Dora (now morphing into Madeira) was gated all day and I know Boxer comes to visit often. She does much better in the overnight although last night she decided to attach the my pulled-back sheers hat have a tasseled cord holding them back. she was trying to climb them like a tree...had to stop that behavior fast.

Boxer came to visit often during the night and I don't recall any aggressive behavior.

She hasn't learned how to cover her poo...mostly tries using the floor outside the litter box to do so. Pretty gross when you're trrying to fall asleep. I think I;ll get one with the cover, like my other cats use and see if that helps her.

I see she's trying to cover her food which I observed her and her kittens do when they were in the yard. when my cats did that I had always thought that meant they didn't like the food, but when i saw them do it in the yard I got the sense that they were trying to hide it for later. Anyone know which is true?

Anyway, looks like all is well in kitty land today. Got to remember to tell the cleaning lady not to vacuum upstairs...don't want to set momma back.

Good day to all.
Sue

Hope everyone is doing well.

The kittens are coming along. Figaro is socialized now but still kept in the cage until this weekend when we'll let him run around (before feeding) to see if he interacts with us humans. Buster is doing very well and was quite the mush last night. Its so funny how he resists then completely surrenders. Since I am only doing this once per day, his progress is slow, but this weekend I am going to try to handle him several times and hope he's a new boy by Monday.

Momma's been getting the run of the house in the evening while the other two peanuts are in the basement; she's much more relaxed. I will be doing the harness thing this weekend and see where that leads me.

Mindy, let us know how you and Ruby are doing.

Sue

Sue, You really are a fur baby lover, aren't you? Keep up the good work...
Hope to hear from Mindy....

Good work. I wish there were more people like you.

I'm both blessed and cursed with a love for animals. My heart wants to give every creature a home, and it breaks when I see them just waiting to be loved.

I think the turning point for me was witnessing an incredibly severe case of abuse first hand and being powerless to stop it without harm to myself and my husband. Even with contacting law enforcement at the moment, and subsequently at all levels up to the county DA's office and the ASPCA, I couldn't help that one dog.

It was life changing and for the most part, not in a good way. It will take years for me to be able to hear or see any tale of abuse, which really prevents me from being in the trenches to help these babies. So I do what I can in any other way to help either through donations or by giving these babies who wandered into my yard, a home. After all, they picked me!

My husband keeps me grounded though. He limits us to three cats, which is fair for our home size and life style. Without him I'd be the neighborhood cat lady, although too young right now, I am certain I'd grow into moniker in good time.

S

Sue, As long as they don't add, "Crazy" in front of "cat lady"....I am known as the cat lady in our neighborhood and I honestly think there might be a sign at the end of the street, "Home for Wayward Cat/kittens" and it's pointed right at my house....
My Dh, like your's, has put his foot down, softly...(He's almost as bad as me.) At one time, we had 2 feral mommas on the patio and each had had a litter of 6...When the kits started getting older the mothers tried taking them into the bushes, to teach them to live on their own...That's when we bundled up all the kittens, put them in our basement and would bring them out for feedings...We had to sit with them and as soon as they were done eating, back in the basement...There were times when momma would start through the yard, make a noise and all the babies would run after her...My DH would run with a big box and be scooping up kittens along the way...As soon as the kittens were weaned, we were able to get them adopted...It was like giving up my own kids and boy did I screen the new parents...We were able to get those 2 females spayed and they are still living on our patio....I loved having all those little ones and often would foster for one of our local no kill shelters. From fostering, I did keep 2 little girls and now when I mention fostering, DH gives me that look....But what a thrill, watching them grow.....I keep saying, if I ever win that lottery, I'll have the best shelter around.....See, how I can go on and on when it comes to talking about fur babies.......You should be around when I pull out the pictures....

Thanks Irish...hearing others with the same passion makes me feel less alone in this.

Hey mindy...please let us know how you're doing.

Well, we have a couple of developments. Momma Dora has had the run of the house while i am home and can supervise. I couldn't get the harness on her so i tried Plan B which was to stick by Boxer while she roamed. it was no problem because Boxer was stuck to me like glue.

He did start after her at one point when he came into the guest room and laid across he bed from her, but scooted him away.

i actually stayed home from work today since I got little sleep over the weekend and was quite out of it yesterday.

momma loves her new window perch where she can lie down and keep an eye on the neighborhood, instead of having to sit up to see out. She's doing okay with the covered kitty litter except just now she didn't cover it at all and cover or not, it stinks.

Buster, the less tame of her kittens got sent to boot camp today. he was progressing nicely and I had no problem getting him out of his cage, but my friends weren't having the same luck so they shipped him off with the rescue lady. his brother is looking for him and it is heartbreaking, but with neither to influence the other, it might work out best. i think he;ll be gone until Saturday when they have an appointment with the vet for more shots.

we'll see. I am trying not to stress about it and just wait and see what happens Thats it for now.

Anyone heard from Mindy?

sue

Hi Everyone,

I'm still here! Just haven't been on GardenWeb in a while with some other things I was doing.

Ruby continues to progress. She's doesn't appear to be too frightened of all my other furbabies (dogs and cats), but it's me that she's terrified of. I'm sure it because of all I put her through. She ventures out from behind the dresser a lot now and will come right up to the gate if I'm not around and visits with my other animals. My son even witnessed her and my little red dachshund, Emma, sniffing each other. The second she notices me, she either backs way off, or runs back behind the dresser.
She's been sleeping on the comforter I have on the floor. She must be on it a lot, because it has quite a collection of her cat hair on it in the one spot she lays.
With her being out more, I've been able to get a couple more pics, but I still need to download them off my camera on my home PC (I'm at work now). I'll post a new pic as soon as I can.

Mindy

I have had a feral cat for 15 years now, she is a one person cat once they come around to you they are good companions she is an indoor cat now

Mindy, I would love an update on Ruby since I have been following her story and am curious. I tried to save a feral kitten when I was a child. My parents would not let me keep her and made me let her go back into the wild to defend herself. I was the only one she came up to since I visited her every day with food. She lived in a hold under a neighbor's home in our summer home when I was a child and was so skinny. I always loved animals and still do. I even fostered a Maltese to save her life until the rescue group found the perfect home for her. I wanted to keep her but they felt three little dogs were enough for me. Now I have four very little dogs but miss having a kitty cat also so much but worry some clients will be have allergies in my home office if I rescue a cat or kitten.