Navien or Takagi Flash T-H1 Tankless Gas Water Heater?
Wayne Reibold
15 years ago
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jake2007
15 years agozl700
15 years agoRelated Discussions
Tank-less water heaters.
Comments (39)We have had experince with all systems. I had a timer put on our electric hot water heater years ago, we were a work all day and it was usless to have the water heated. Used the heater one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. If I needed to wash clothes I just flipped the swith. When the second water heater began to have problems I looked into a solar hot water heater. Really expensive to get put in. I settled for a whole house tankless electric hot water heater. It was AMERICAN something brand. Cost about $700 with all the wiring etc. but I loved that the removal of thebig tank gave me room for a pantry. That tankless was in about one year when I began to have problems. I am only one person, so thats probably why it took so long for the probllems to show up. I complained to the company who installed it and they came out looked it all over and yanked it out and install a new SEISCO system and it required more wiring than the original one did. All that and one whole days work with two men and they didn't charge me a dime. I was really impressed. My electric bill has decreased by at least $50 a month and I have seen bills for less than $100 this spring with no a/c on. I have plenty of hot water. Have washer and dishwasher. Never run out. Turn on the shower and by the time I get in it is hot. I love it. I recommend them for everyone. This is an older house and two story with three bathroooms and I never notice any problem with not having hot water.Just be careful who you get to do the work. That's the main thing....See MoreTankless Water Heater-please help
Comments (12)Jerry, The reason for statements about tankless and manufactured homes/mobile homes and it's restrictions is because of several codes require sealed and special venting for such applications. If you are in a warmer climate, many are installed outdoors, or in outside utility closets as you speak, as long as proper venting, combustion air and clearances are followed. The big three water heaters today and in sales order is: Rinnai, Noritz, Takagi. They are there and on top for a reason-quality After that the Paloma's, under many names, Bosch, and a few others are fighting over the bottom. One to watch though is the Navien which is gaining ground fast with the highest efficiency out (98%), PVC venting and stainless steel heat exchangers versus all others have copper (susceptible to liming, calcification and erosion). bstarz, Many studies place tankless payback above a tank replacement at about 7 years. Of course if you pulled a new tank that had a 7-12 year life expectancy, then your ROI could be close to 15 years. Dan "Palomas in restaurants near me that have been running for several decades without any problems" Really 30 years or more? Life expectancy of a copper tankless heat exchanger is 10 years, commercial application used 3 hours a day. Use it for 6 hours and it is 5 years. With Paloma only starting distribution in the US since '88, I doubt they have been in a restaurant for several decades (30 years). To all, if your considering a tankless, don't go cheap, if payback is a consideration, don't have one installed till you need a heater, if energy savings is desired, unless you control the never-ending hot water supply (teenagers in showers), you wont have any, and last if you can afford, want endless hot water because you run out, go for it!...See MoreSolar hot water, tankless, gas condensing water heater...?
Comments (2)If you go with any sort of solar system, make sure it has a gas backup and not electric. My energy costs went up $100/month when I added our solar system down here in San Diego. I am now getting it corrected with the installation of a small gas tankless unit, using the solar storage system as a pre-heater. If you're building the home then many of the traditional drawbacks of tankless don't apply to you. You can build in the correct gas line and venting from the start. If I were in your shoes I'd probably go tankless (30 percent tax credit this year -- see the stimulus law or visit www.energystar.gov). If a single unit won't handle your demand then get two. And plumb it with the small tank system (10 gallon) for recirculation and to overcome any sandwich problems. This approach has been detailed in this forum somewhere....See MoreCost of Gas Powervent Water Heater
Comments (11)I have a Rheem which is the same as a Rudd and Paloma... at least it was when I purchased mine. I have had it almost 3 years with no problems. I would put the Rheem, Rannai and Takagi as comparable units, with some specific things that may recommend one over the other - such as one brand might have a size that is a closer match to what you need, for example. I would stay away from Bosch units. They made a disastrous Aquastar unit and that taints my perception of their entire line. The Navien is a little different, in that it uses a stainless steel heat exchanger and lower operating temps that they claim causes less mineral buildup. They also have a line of units that include a built-in circ pump and small buffer tank (all of the units ending with "A"). I also believe that all of their units are condensing units. Some of the other brands offer condensing units as well. A condensing unit that vents via PVC will allow you to vent the unit using inexpensive materials instead of stainless steel. The Navien units have an energy factor of 0.95 - 0.98 (condensing) a standard tankless will have an energy factor of 0.82-0.85 while a Rheem power vent tank has an energy factor of 0.57 -0.64. These energy factors are just the ones that I looked up, however they are representative. As you can see, a typical gas tank heater wastes about 35-40% of the energy that goes into them. Tankless also include options like a remote control - so you can set your shower temp to exactly what you want and not worry about scalding, for example. The warranty on these things is pretty good (Navien is 15 years heat exchanger and 5 years everything else). Keep in mind that these things are pretty small (mine was 60 pounds and came in a box, UPS.) You can always take it off the wall and drop it off somewhere to be repaired if need be. They should be delimed with vinegar every couple years - and that's something you can hire done or learn to do yourself. The good news is that you can do it at all. Tank heaters don't lend themselves to cleaning very easily. I'm very happy with mine - I like everything about it, the size, the energy savings, the endless hot water. It does take about 2 seconds longer to get hot water, however. If I had it to do again, I would look at a condensing unit from Navien (I say that without knowing the price)....See Morejake2007
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