Here's the unofficial official FAQ...it helps.

Be brave.

Here is a link that might be useful: the FAQ

Hi JPW!

I believe Bosch make an 18" wide dishwasher, which might be an alternative solution? I'm pretty sure people here have them and love them.

Our kitchen remodel started because the vent hood died. It's really astonishing how a project can expand . . . .

I found the people here to be enormously generous with their advice and suggestions. So much so, that I'm still here . . . .

Don't be discouraged! I know it can seem overwhelming but, in the end, you will be glad that you have made a few changes to keep the home modernized and functional.

Can you post pictures or a layout? There are some here who are really talented at creative space planning.

Also, we raised the cabinet above our fridge temporarily to fit the new one in. As planning for my mini-redo continues, it was a good temporary solution to a bigger problem that I wasn't ready to tackle yet (sort of like you).

Hope you can post some pictures!

Sandy

What are the dimemsions of the spaces you're talking about?

• Narrow cabinet next to the sink?

• Refrigerator alcove?

• Closet/pantry?

I agree w/Busybme...a picture of the kitchen as a whole would be extremely helpful.

It would also help if we had a kitchen layout w/dimensions...walls/window/doorways & distances b/w walls/window/doorways...to see if there's another place to fit things.

As to the refrigerator...can the cabinet(s) over the refrigerator be modified? I assume it's the height that's the problem...could you cut down some filler or cabinets? Door(s) may be an issue, but there may be a way to modify them or order just those doors from someone else (Scherr's, for example) to replace the existing ones.

One last question, have you read the "Read Me" thread yet? There is a lot of general information as well as many helpful links in it...

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

Those moving pantry units are a chunk of change (hundreds to north of a thousand). The more you want them, the more they cost!

I'm not sure how I missed that Read Me thread... thanks for the link. I am going to take some time to peruse that before I post anything else.

Hi SaratheBrit! You're kitchen turned out great!

I am enthusiastic about the quick response on this forum and what looks like some very helpful links already...

This forum needs a FAQ link at the top of the page, like they have on other GW forums... that is where I was looking. I hadn't thought to do a search on FAQ...

I will try to be brave... I am picky and if I do something, I want to do it right.

I can post pictures and dimensions... I'm at work right now. After I get home tonight, I'll post some pics and dimensions.

Holy cow, this forum moves fast. I spend one day reading lots of great stuff here and on the appliance forum and by the time I get back to this thread, its moved back to page three.

Okay well I don't have complete dimensions of the entire kitchen yet. But I have a few dimensions and a few pictures. I've discovered something as I measured stuff too. My second choice location for the dishwasher, has the width that I need, but it doesn't have the depth...grrrr... The more I look at this, the more I think I need to replace all the cabinets - in order to get something that doesn't looked fudged when its finished....

A couple pictures showing the fridge / sink configuration.

The existing fridge is 32.5" w x 26.5" deep x 66" tall.

There is some spare room around this fridge such that the width between the existing counter top and the pocket door to the right of the fridge is 39.5".

The bottom of the cabinet over the fridge is 66-1/4" above the floor.

The bottom of the soffit over the fridge is 81" above the floor.

My preferred fridge would have french doors with bottom freezer. I have plenty of width for the models that I looked at ... but the shortest one (that I could find) is 68.5" tall and they go up to 70"... so I was considering taking out the cabinet over the fridge... and either extending a matching trim piece under the soffit from the sink to the end of the soffit OR putting a little short cabinet in there.... OR removing the soffit and putting in a really high cabinet OR? I am open to suggestion... one of which doesn't necessarily exclude skipping my choice on a fridge and getting a shorter one.

My first choice for a dishwasher location was immediately to the left of the sink. This cabinet is 21" wide x 24" deep.

My second choice for the dishwasher location was where the drawer section is in this photo:

This drawer section is 21" wide, but there is a 6-1/4" overhang for the countertop that I thought I could steal from to make room for the dishwasher. However this L section of cabinetry is only 19" deep. Which I wasn't aware before I measured it.

The pantry is on the wall immediately across from the end of the L cabinet...you can see the closet door in this picture is the pantry:

There is something very personal about putting a picture of your messy pantry on the internet...

I'd like to put a really nice shelving system in this pantry to make up for the lost cabinet space if I get the taller fridge and install the dishwasher. The pantry dimensions...

As far as the pantry organisers go - I don't think they let you fit as much stuff in the pantry as regular shelving - they just make it easier to get at and they look nice.

Reading what you'd like to do - I'd suggest you order some Ikea cabinets to replace your existing ones, and put them in yourselves. It's not hard and it's not expensive.

Good Luck !

I would move the refrigerator to where the pantry is now. Tear out the sheetrock. Then I would move the oven lower and put in a microwave above. Frame out the whole wall around the oven and new placement of the fridge with cabinets.

The dishwasher could go in the old refrigerator slot. You could have an inexpensive box built above the new location of the dishwasher. Make it the same height as your other cabinets and put doors on the front with wavy glass.

Moving the fridge would actually help the flow of your kitchen. This would also give you more room around the sink. I would check with a good carpenter. He might be able to match everything.

I would amend my last post to put the fridge where the oven is and move the oven to the pantry door position. That way the bar isn't in the way when you have the fridge doors open and someone is trying to get around the opening. With the oven and microwave in line by the bar, it gives you a place to off load the hot food.

You could also put in a range instead of a cooktop. Lose the wall oven and still keep the pantry. Just do a built in section for the fridge.

Good ideas. We have thought about putting the fridge where the pantry is... we've also thought about putting the dishwasher where the pantry is - but I think a dishwasher there would be too far away from the sink - and other cabinets.

I love the idea of putting a microwave over the oven. There is a basement stairwell behind the wall with the oven. I'm not sure we can lower it without encroaching on the space needed for the steps behind it. We had looked at putting two ovens in that wall, but the stairwell behind it, limits our options on that wall.

We also have some space to play with where the goofy little desk is. Its cute, but someone useless as its pretty small. Makes a nice place for a phone and paper to clutter up.

There are far better minds available on GW to help you with your kitchen than me, but I just wanted to chime in a bit:

1. Knowing nothing about designing a kitchen, I would still vote for moving the fridge. It just looks *wrong* there. And somehow intrusive. Hulking. And if it catches MY eye, then you might want to put that on your shortlist of things to consider.

2. My sister had a wall oven stuck in the middle of sheetrock, like yours is. Turns out that it was just a giant, two-foot-deep cavity (30"wide)above and below her single oven. She managed to somehow shove some pretty major storage in that space when she replaced her oven. Maybe there is a way to re-capture all that hollow-ness around yours for storage (if you have to give up your current pantry)?
Maybe you can salvage some matching wood from your current pantry door somehow for any doors/drawers that you can fit above/below the oven? I have no idea if that is a stupid suggestion, but you have a nice pantry door that matches your cabs in color (at least on my monitor) and it would be a shame to just ditch it.

3. I actually very much like your cab doors and am awfully impressed that you are keeping them (as opposed to old=awful, no matter what). Given the slab front, I think your idea of "clean lined" will fit in well, and highlight the very nifty nature of your sleeker doors. (Can you tell that I truly like your doors?)

I just re-read your last post. I somehow missed your explanation of the stairwell behind the oven. So disregard my second point (above) because I apparently am no longer capable of reading effectively for content.

Oops.

I am not going to disregard your post, because I am curious to find out how much space I do have to play with in the oven area...I can pull that oven out fairly easily and I need to make some more measurements - perhaps even mark a line on that wall where the top of the stairwell is, so I can see what we have for more useable space on that wall.

Food for thought - if you put the DW between the cooktop and sink, I'm afraid you wouldn't be able to stand at the sink and have the door open to load it at the same time. It would be crowded. You might check out an old post about corner sinks for more info about spacing for the DW door.

Also, I recommend taking down the trim over the sink and cooktop. In my old kitchen we had something similar over the sink. It was screwed in on the inside of the neighboring cabinets. It unscrewed in seconds and, to me, felt much more up to date.

I too love your cabinets. It might be possible to match them (check the neighbors' garages--sorry, but it's true! I always admire the cabinets in my neighbors' garages that used to be in their kitchens that are always much nicer than what they replaced them with...).

If you can sketch up a floor plan, it'll help get some ideas.

Your refrigerator sort of feels like it's in your sink. I'm so helpful. Make some holes and explore. If we can put your fridge into the wall where the pantry is...um...how much electrical and plumbing are you up for?

Anyway, yes, your trim is dated, and no you shouldn't replace it (unless you're trying to sell or don't like it). Embrace your inner 60s kitchen. It's so lucky to have been spared!

Your first choice for DW location is bad because it means you wouldn't be able to open the DW while standing at the sink. Now, if you rehome the fridge, you could put it as far over to the right as possible and still squeeze in there to work from the sink. An 18" DW would be even better, if you think it's big enough (some of them have pretty darn good capacity).

More thoughts about your sheetrocked wall.

If you have a stairwell, then you may have to switch from a cooktop to a range. That way you would have the extra room. You could still run a cabinet "look" around the fridge. Go really high with a row of cabinets that would go across the top of the fridge and across the wall. Drop down beside the fridge with small cabinet doors to balance out a microwave installation. Place a cabinet door over any usable space. Possibly run some long skinny cabinets to give it a better visual effect. You might have to put in a fake door front to balance out the effect. Though if you have just the depth of a 2 x 4 you could stack spices behind a cabinet door.

One thing I notice with your fridge is it looks really close to the sink. With it sitting on an angle you will need to make sure it doesn't protrude (depth of fridge) into your space by the sink. However, that may be the camera shot and you have more room than it looks like on the monitor.

Figure out where your stairwell is and then get some painters tape. Tape off your area for the fridge. Note where your stairwell runs. Get a general idea of the size microwave you are interested in. Then start taping off with imaginary doors. That way you will get an idea of what you like (door pattern wise) and how it looks in the room.

I am glad to get such good feedback on my cabinets. I do like them, even though they are dated. They are nice quality cabinets that I think to get something of similar quality today will be very pricey.

These same cabinets are built in throughout the house in bathroom and the hallway. The doors throughout the house match the cabinets. Which is another reason why I might want to save as much as I can. But I don't want to bother saving them, if the whole thing is going to look even more dated and cheesy after I install newer appliances.

I am up for as much plumbing and electrical as necessary to get something that is nice. I am going to have to install plumbing and electrical for the dishwasher anyway, so to relocate electrical and plumbing for the fridge isn't a problem. And I have some other small pluming and electrical wish lists for other areas of the house that I think could all be done at the same time.

I'd never thought about opening the dishwasher would be a problem in front of the sink... I knew there was a reason that I wanted to get feedback from this forum.

If you notice the wood piece below the stove top was replaced and it doesn't match exactly. Its not a bad match, but I think if we are getting other matched pieces, we might be able to improve that piece also.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roecker cabinets

One person's cheesy is another person's classy, so you're going to have to make that decision yourself. :D

If you switch out the curlicue trim for something straight, it'll be very modern and up-to-date while keeping the spirit of the place.

Here's a link to a blog about "old" houses--scroll down for pictures of an inspirational kitchen. You know it's dated, but it looks very current. And it doesn't even have especially new appliances. (Look at the oven!)

Here is a link that might be useful: ranch handy blog

One more thing. If you kept the fridge where it is, could you have someone modify the cabinet? How much taller are the new fridges? Have you looked at lots of different brands/models to make sure you can't find one that would fit?

I'm thirds-ing that your cabinets are swingin'!

Do you ever look at things like Atomic Ranch or Dwell or other magazines that appreciate midcentury modern design? Take a look. I would have LOVED to have seen that pink flowered vinyl flooring ... for a few minutes.

The extractor fan is also cool design. I don't know if it moves enough air for you, but if you get a hood, you might consider keeping it as a design element anyway.

I think the thing I want to say the most is: Slow down. Try not to be overwhelmed. You need a fridge. Get a fridge you like and that makes sense for you. If you need to take the molding or the cabinet down, do that now. One thing at a time. Don't let things get too big in your head.

Then think about the rest. What do you REALLY want? Does it really make sense for you to remodel now? Is there any real reason to hurry? (I don't know anything about you, I'm not implying anything, I would ask this of anyone!)

Many of us have lived with a hole in the counter, or a missing something, for months, or even years. Now is not the time for some people to plan a big kitchen remodel. And the haste we feel is usually self-imposed. Certainly a remodel is NEVER something to rush into. So

You may be able to reuse the cabinets, or you may get a contractor in, and he may pull one out and show you it's nothing but sawdust. We all make a sort-of plan, we get outside information (like designs, estimates), we learn what will and won't work, then we revise our plans gradually.

Almost all of us were overwhelmed once. You already sound like you're getting a toehold.

Good luck!

Well so far, the positive comments on my cabinets helps point me in the direction to work with the "groovy" cabinets that I have, rather than replacing everything. ;-)

I like the suggestion to look in neighbor's garages. I do think there might be a couple good possibilities there.

The extractor fan is not only very COOL, it works great. Its a bit loud on high speed, but you can't hardly run it on high speed without creating a vortex. On low speed, its fairly quiet and effective. I'd like to keep the fan.

I appreciate the advice to take things slowly. That is what I needed. I was thinking that I need to do everything right now and get it done. But in reality, the only thing I need right now is a fridge. We can do this in steps. Though I'd like to make sure the fridge that I do get works within a well thought out plan.

I've already lived with primed white trim and walls and no baseboard trim under the sink cabinet and behind the fridge for two years now...what is the hurry?

And your suggestions have prompted more questions.

If I put the dishwasher where the fridge is now, and do nothing with the overhead cabinet, the cabinet bottom won't line up with the cabinets on the other side... is that good, bad, acceptable or a big no no?

If I put the fridge where the pantry is, the doors won't be any more of a space problem than I have right now with the pantry door open. And in fact if I get the french doors they will be narrower and I'll have somewhat more clearance there, than I have with the pantry door. Or am I missing something?

Does anyone have suggestions for colors for a counter top, that would look okay with the floor and black splash tile. I am not planning to do granite or soapstone. I think laminate will go nice with the sixties cabinets.

So how long/large of a laminate counter can I have before I have to put a seam in it... and where should the seams go? I did see on another thread where they put the seam in the narrow parts by the sink. Because of the corner, I have quite a bit of counter space behind the sink. So what are the other places that good locations for seams.

Something else this forum has done... is that looking at my kitchen in pictures shows me things that I never see when I am in the kitchen.

The fugly light fixtures... I hate the new one over the table installed by previous homeowner but I didn't realize how out of place it was until I looked at these pictures.

AND the light fixture in the center of the kitchen... HELLO! - I never noticed how much I hate that too.

And please ignore the gray garbage can, that is not the regular can that sets there...someone else pointed that out to me, along with the stickers, and I didn't even notice it when I took the pics. That is the basement can. The kitchen can must be in the basement.

Now wait a minute Joepyeweed!

I think you're starting to enjoy this!

I'm not so sure you have to "embrace your inner 60s." Seriously, unless my monitor is just particularly lovingly portraying your cabs, I think they are empirically nice on their own.

Even my husband likes them. (Burled wood? Cherry? Rich fields of beautifully stained wood?) Change out the hardware and go for sleek and clean-lined. Doesn't HAVE to be a "period" feel.

That said, I agree that losing the little scrolly trim would help.

And if you move the fridge, you could fill the space where a cab feels like it should be there with maybe open shelves...where the bottom shelf lines up with the bottom of the neighboring cab.

Breathe. Take little bites.

Hmm...I like the kitchen too. When I first glanced I thought it looked dated, but then I kept scrolling back up and I have a completely different perspective. I think the cabinets actually have a very sleek and modern feel to them, especially paired with the floor. With a darker countertop, wallpaper removed, scrolly things above window and range removed, I have a vision of a beautiful kitchen in my head - especially with that extractor fan! I love it!

As far as moving the fridge and the cabinet space left over, this was done in my kitchen and the PO's built a microwave shelf underneath the upper fridge cabs to bring the bottom of the cabs to the same level as the rest, and, it was functional too :)

Seriously, the extractor fan does nothing but rock.

And truly, take a hard look at your actual doors ant tell me they aren't fab. They just need some different details around them to look like something in so many stylish kitchens.

You said it yourself: clean-lined, sleek. You have the bones.
Go to a tile-granite place and get a sample of anything. Get a sample of just plain black granite. (Or any color. Did I mention that I'm incompetent at this?) Put it against your cab doors and see if it doesn't look different. Maybe you'll be inspired. Or at least see the direction that might work wonderfully.

The work for moving things (like your fridge or whatever) might seem easier if you can see where you might want to go. I think all diy is easier if you are convinced that you are creating something wonderful...as opposed to just trying to make something less awful.

I'm not into mid-century anything. At all. And I think your cabs are fab.

Embrace the madness.

FYI - You mentioned laminate counters earlier--you can get all the laminate samples you want from any of the big box stores. I, having plenty of access to a computer, went to formica.com and ordered a bunch of samples online and had the mailed to me for free.

And, my personal experience was that my small re-do started to snowball as I learned about all the options that were out there. Be cautious and focus the things you really want to change/impove. Sometimes you need to take a step back and ask yourself what is really important to you.

growlery, I am NOT enjoying the thought of the mess that will soon be happening in my kitchen.

But I am really enjoying all the wonderful feed back that I've gotten on this post. Great suggestions, everyone.

I especially like the comments about slowing down, taking a breath, baby steps. I needed to hear that and it helps.

Last night, I marked out on the big sheet rock wall, where the stairwell is behind it. I have to get some painters tape and I'm going to tape it off.

After inquiring with a few neighbors, I was able to contact the original company that made these cabinets forty years ago. They are still in business. Their ability to make matching pieces sounds promising. I contacted them and they wanted to schedule an appointment, but I told him I wasn't ready, yet. But just knowing they were there and willing to work with me, has reduce some of my concern.

I am leaning towards putting the dishwasher where the fridge is, and putting the fridge where the pantry is. And I am looking at possibly adding some more cabinets, on the sheet rock wall AND/OR where the goofy desk is. (You can't really see the desk on the pictures on this forum, but you can see it if you click on the slide show.) I like the idea of some false cabinets on that wall also.

I do think I have room to move the oven down and over a few inches to provide space for a microwave above the oven.

I've started measuring everything up. I think I will take the measurements, plus the photos, plus the ideas that I've gotten here and then schedule an appointment with the cabinet maker.