Granite countertop meeting the wall...wall not straight

14 years ago

So, I get templated for granite tomorrow. Granite guy asked if I picked out a tile yet and I told him that I have not and in fact, I might not do tile. I just want the granite all the way to the edge of the wall.

My house is old and the walls are definitely not straight. Granite guy said this will be a big challenge when templating and that there will likely be some gaps in places...not big but bigger than he thinks looks good. Or he can push the granite into the drywall in places so it can be evened out. Or he can make a piece of quarter round to put at the back edge (hate this idea).

What do others do in this situation?

Featured Answer

azstoneconsulting

14 years ago

mimitche-

Maybe I was a little P.O.'d when I wrote my last reply on this thread - so
can I backtrack a little?

OK - when a guy notches out the drywall - IMHO - that is NOT second class at all.

I used to do this when I did not have the luxury of a water jet to cut any contour
I wanted (like scribing)....

It's VERY easy to ubersize (oversize) a piece - especially depth wise - and cut
a notch or slot in the dry wall so the stone slide in - under the bottom edge
of the drywall - so the drywall is stiing on top of the stone.
This is done all the time by quality Fabricators (with a capital "F")...

What gets MY hackles in a knot - are these knuckle heads that call themselves
"fabricators" ( with a small "f") that blame their inability to contour to a wall
because their bridge saw or skill saw will only cut in a straight line -
News Flash = COURSE that's how it cuts!!!

They don't know any better - and/or refuse to try to learn any new techniques
of producing better quality work. That's either just plain "laziness" or
simple "stupidity" in my book.....

Don't get me wrong - sliding stone under drywall that has been notched out
is certainly NOT 2nd class... Refusing to give a customer a nice tight fit
up against a wall that has waviness is just unacceptable - especially when a guy
CAN do this - but won't, and blames it on a lame excuse like...
"Well - my saw only cuts straight......" :-@

hth

kevin

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Comments (32)

writersblock (9b/10a)
14 years ago
I'm kind of puzzled by your granite guy. The whole reason for templating is so that the granite can be cut to fit the space. Hardly any house (even newer ones) has perfectly straight walls, and they template so they know how to scribe the granite to make it fit properly.

This sounds like prefab and don't ask for any customization, at least IMHO.
friedajune
14 years ago
I agree with Writersblock. No walls could be more out of plumb than mine, and my granite fabricator just dealt with it, as an everday occurrence for him, certainly not a "challenge" as you/he put it. My counters have no gaps, everything looks great, and I have tile down to the countertop. Is it too late to find another fabricator?
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Ah - the overly thick granite backsplash problem! You really have to wonder why contractors and granite people are not more explicit in pointing out that standard granite thickness is *very* thick for a backsplash, and unless you design for that thickness, you really do lose a lot of clearance on a standard install. Granite tile is thinner and works much better in terms of clearance - but doesn't look the same. Since it's granite you're using and not tile, you could do something funky and notch out the framing behind the drywall/cement board and reduce the thickness that way. At the same time, you could remud the wall and get it straighter (as suggested above). If you've got standard drywall behind the backsplash, you could use cement backer board that's thinner than standard drywall and gain yourself maybe a quarter inch there. But a quarter inch less in the drywall/backer board and a quarter inch less on the studs will give you a half inch deep backsplash - much more normal looking and that half inch makes a big difference in cleaning/operating a faucet. Believe me, I know. I'm actually going to use a very thin substrate for our backsplash if it comes to it - I'm learning a lot about using the space inside of walls in creative ways. Planing off the studs even more than one-fourth an inch is easy and solves the whole problem - although, if you've got a licensed contractor, they may refuse to do it themselves. There are times to DIY and this may be one of them (or hire a handyman who isn't licensed as a construction contractor). Your bathroom isn't going to fall down if you shave say 3/8 of an inch off the studs or use thinner backer board behind granite - it's granite. BTW, they should have fixed that wavey wall in some way before they installed it - our granite guy absolutely refused to install until the wall was reduced in waviness, which we accomplished with sanding and filling (it wasn't more than 3/8 of an inch total in most places, though). Moving the blacksplash back a little means that it doesn't rest completely on the countertop, so you might want to epoxy it or something like that. You could also have that backsplash piece reworked to be thinner - any good granite shop can do it, I don't know how much it costs. About your drawer: they who broke it need to replace the hardware - I can't quite picture your situation but it sounds like it's a tight fit. Still, perhaps they can remove some other fixture temporarily to fix it? It is so infuriating to know how things are supposed to be done and not be able to get someone to do them the way you want. I'm interviewing plumbers right now, and communication is very important. I *know* I don't want a wide deck on my whirlpool tub and I *know* I don't want a step - nor do I want granite in my bathroom - but two plumbers came and started saying, well, I'll put this here to leave room for this or that, just in case you want a stair into your tub (!) or you want to use granite (both then gave me cards for a granite guy they knew - but I'm using glass tile that is *way* thinner than granite tile - and in a very small space where a half an inch will actually matter, at least to me). Good luck with solving it - don't lose hope. It will feel so good when it's finally done - even if you have to force your contractor to rip things out and basically start over. It is hard to be firm with people in this situation and not lose one's temper altogether - but that's what this forum is here for - keep venting!
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azstoneconsulting
14 years ago
Ditto to what Writersblock has said...

I'd have to say that based on your description in your OP - your fabricator
does not have the skills of a pro (or at least the template guy shows that they
don't know how to "scribe" to a wall - and YES - it CAN be done)....

Some guys will "oversize" the piece - depth wise - and cut the drywall so the
stone slides in UNDER the drywall that's been cut - to give that "scribed look"..

What you are asking for is NOT rocket science - insist on having them do
what YOU want to make YOU happy. They may charge you an up-charge, but
hey - YOU will be the one looking at your stone EVERY day you're in your
kitchen - so get what you WANT... don't "settle" for something that's 2nd classs..

just my .02 cents worth - but this is very easily managed from a Fabrication
standpoint, and should be done right the first time...

hth

kevin
kristine_2009
14 years ago
I was told the same thing actually, but we are putting up tile so I am just dealing with the gap for now. The filled the gap with some kind of epoxy.
rtorgy1
14 years ago
My fabricator told me the same, that the saw cuts in a straight line, and where the wall is not straight, I do have a small gap, but I am tiling down to the countertop. At the corner where there would have been a larger gap, they did what kevin says, they cut the drywall and slid the slab in. I didn't think it was any big deal. I would just do that if you are not sure if you are going to tile or not.
clg7067
14 years ago
I never heard of scribing granite. I thought they always cut back the drywall or fill the gap with epoxy.

Just think of the labor charge!
eks6426
Original Author
14 years ago
Hmm, I'm pretty sure granite guys knows his stuff. He is considered the best in the area by many of my interior designer friends. Granite guy mentioned he will scribe, but it is hard to get it perfect when a wall has basically an S curve to it. He will try, but he's afraid there will still be a gap in some places. We'll talk more about options tomorrow. I know I don't want the quarter round type piece. I could handle sticking into the drywall if necessary.
azstoneconsulting
14 years ago
Jesus Mary & Joseph!!!!

Holy Shnykies!!! Does this guy have half a brain or what?

OF Frickin COURSE a bridge saw is going to cut in straight line...

Scribing is what we PROFESSIONALS use a 4" grinder for.... sounds
like you are doing business with "Putz & Son Granite *& Marble" or
maybe more like "QUANTITY Stone".... this guy CAN'T HAVE been doing Fabricating
very long - I mean - C'MON MAN!!! GET A CLUE!!!!

Maybe he needs to come to my school so I can teach him how to do things right....

TO me - your fabricator sounds more like a whinner-baby... like I said
before - REAL Fabricators can do the "scribe: to an "S" wall - sure it's
not the most fun thing to do, but with a good template and experience -
this can be done all day long and twice on Sundays.......

sorry for going off - but this guy masquerading as a "fabricator" slays me!

kevin
davidro1
14 years ago
To oversize the depth a tad, and cut drywall so it slides in under the drywall that's been cut. is....
It's one straight cut.
Why is it second class to do this? What part is bad about this?
dcwesley
14 years ago
Well - I sholuld have read this about 3 weeks ago. Our granite is being installed as we speak. Our walls were not straight eithr of course. And we have not decided what to do about a backsplash. Maybe tile. Maybe nothing. So he cut back into the drywall in a couple of spots and made the gap less. Can't really tell you how it looks yet. They are still here - getting ready to cut the cooktop and faucet holes.
rtorgy1
14 years ago
wow...
buffalotina
14 years ago
I would not accept them cutting into my drywall. My walls are definitely not straight and my granite was nicely scribed to fit. Good luck!
morgne
14 years ago
For what this is worth (and I'm kinda assuming very little...) My husband and I fabricated soapstone counters ourselves out of full size slabs. He did the templating while I fussed at him and it didn't occur to us that there was an option to scribing the wall.

I know soapstone isn't granite but our slabs follow the wall exactly.
mimitche
14 years ago
I just had granite installed and my kitchen had very uneven walls- almost s curves in spots. We did not do a granite backsplash; our backsplash will be all tile so it was important that there was a tight fit between the back of the granite and the wall.

Our fabricator notched out the drywall where needed to ensure that the granite had a consistent and tight fit to the wall. It looks great- I'm not sure why this would be considered 2nd class.
remodelfla
14 years ago
kevin... don't CNC machines solve this problem?
azstoneconsulting
14 years ago
Remodelfla -

Yes, a CNC machine - IF properly utilized - CAN cut a contour to a wall - but
only IF a physical template is brought in and "digitized" into the CNC program -
OR - a digital template system is used to make a "tracing" of the wall contour,
and then THAT dxf file if imported into the CNC "make" program....

IMHO - If a guy just makes a statement like "the piece can only be made
straight" - he's not really got a lot of smarts - or experience - or both.....

hth

kevin
PRO
Granite City Services
11 years ago
I am a fabricator:

uneven walls are an every day occurrence. when there is granite backsplash there is some wiggle room although really crooked walls can also present challenges for making the splash look good.

scribing the sheetrock is a very acceptable practice.

a detailed manual template or, better yet, an electronic template made with one of the digital templating systems, can allow the fabricator to cut the stone to match the curve(s) in the wall. this "crooked" cut can be done on either a waterjet machine or after sawing on the CNC.

there is one instance where simply matching the wall is not a good option. We have done some homes where the full height splash was embossed sheet metal (copper or stainless)

in these instances it is important to have the "waves" in the wall fixed by "floating" the sheetrock as the waves become very apparent with the highly reflective sheet metal backsplash.

when we measure our measure guys put long straight edges on the wall to show the customer how straight (or not) the wall is so options for dealing with it can be discussed prior to fabrication.
April Myers
7 years ago
Help! How am I supposed to tile over this gap?
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
7 years ago
Build your wall out.
suzanne_sl
7 years ago
Post that photo on your fabricator's Yahoo comments. No excuse, just none.
barnaclebob
7 years ago
What is the lateral gap from the wall to the counter?

The drywall being cut too high can easily be fixed with some wood strips.

That is sloppy work though. No need to cut the drywall out that much more than the height of the counters.
Countertop Guy
6 years ago
Cutting walls and leaving gaps in areas where there will be a backsplash it's perfectly fine.

I see many homeowners posting their opinions and their experiences, but I don't see many counter top professionals or technicians giving their two cents here. I have worked in the countertop in the street for more than 12 years and I have found that there are many different kinds of countertop fabricators and absolutely none of them are looking to do a sloppy job in your house. Nobody makes money out of going back to the same house several times. You have your small shops that will make one kitchen a week, you have your medium size shops that will make one kitchen a day, and then you have your super shops that will fabricate more than 10 kitchen daily. Every template guy will do their job in a different way. Ultimately what all of them want to accomplish is to make a countertop that will look beautiful once the whole project is finished. In most cases the countertop is not the final step on a remodel project. Most of the time there will be tile sitting on top of the granite, and when that is the case you can have gaps up to a 1/16" smaller than the thickness of the tile (1/4"). And if the wall bumps out in certain areas The wall can be cut with a blade or a Dremel tool and the granite slides under this cut. Once the tile sits on top of the granite it completely covers the gaps and the cuts. This does not compromise the integrity of the wall at all. Sheet rock is hanging from the studs and it is not holding the house together. If you have plaster walls then you might be charged extra for the labor needed to have the granite fitted to the shape of the wall.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
6 years ago
Hacking walls to fit countertops is hillbilly and should only be done as a last resort, not as a general practice.
granite guru
6 years ago
If we hack a wall some one on measures is getting their hand slapped, then the installer that cut the drywall. You can’t charge a fee for templating and then go and cut walls.
If I were the home owner I would be asking for the cost of templating back.
Liz H
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
While notching into the drywall may not structurally damage the wall, and it sounds like it is common practice for many installers it is not without consequences. If the house is an older home where housewrap and tighter building envelope practices were not incorporated the interior drywall is the best line of defense against air drafts and pests entering the house. Given that it’s a kitchen we are talking about and so there will Be scents attracting pests I’d prefer to have my drywall intact vs a long linear gap. The backsplash will seal the top side of the countertop gap, but there is no way to seal the gap below the countertop as the cabinet is in the way. It would be my preference to scribe as necessary and have a continuous drywall barrier.
PRO
Blue Gorilla Tradesman
6 years ago
Hi

Searching for 3rd party input

What is the standard warranty with Fabricators regarding their stock stones and outside wholesaler stones to residential and commercial clients ? One year labor/ installation is a standard but I understand ; a good business that backs their work and materials Have stone warranties ... please advise
Robert Marshall
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
We had granite countertops installed recently. The overhang on one end gradually increases up to about a 3/4" (The countertop is shaped like a "U" and the increase starts about 2.5 feet from the end on one of the U ends, if that makes sense)). The end with the larger overhang is very noticeable. The fabricator said it is because the wall was uneven on that one side (he took measurements and made a template) and basically the problem was unavoidable. Any thoughts on this? Are we being fed a line by the fabricator? I haven't paid him yet.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
3 years ago
Robert:

Uneven overhangs can be the fault of the cabinet installer, but that doesn't sound like the case here. Post a dimensioned drawing please.
Countertop Guy
3 years ago
sometimes cabinets are not lined up straight or evenly and that will always cause an inconsistent overhang. In your case it sounds like a combination of issues.
Robert Marshall
3 years ago
Thank you Countertop Guy. You got me thinking. I'll go back over there and see. Thank you!
granite guru
3 years ago
If your saying the over hang varies by 3/4” you are Being fed b.s. They probably had problems on fabrication end ended up cheating measures. In a U shaped kitchen when you cheat one side you create problems on the other. when it comes time to split the difference on the overhang it is hard to get it even especially if you cheat a wall on a taper. Cabinets being out of plum to the wall is normal And is corrected when you scribe the wall and set your depth to the over hang. At most you will deal 1/4” tolerances.

Granite countertop meeting the wall...wall not straight

azstoneconsulting

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writersblock (9b/10a)

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Granite countertop meeting the wall...wall not straight

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