clg7067 - I don't think that it would be that hard to train 2 dogs, and as for running wild in the yard, why would having 2 make them WILD and not listening, or coming when called?

quirkyquercus - first of all puppies are not a colossal pain, nor is a puppy exhausting. It takes patience, time, consistency, love, lots of exercise, and proper care, yes, but they are not exhausting nor a colossal PAIN! They are wonderful to have around and give unconditional love! and they never criticize!IMO! oh and I had no intention of getting 2 from the same litter.

rosegarden,
How long have you had this puppy? If it's only 7 weeks old, you haven't had her very long.

Yes, puppies ARE exhausting to raise properly. Wait til she is 65 lbs of raw energy, chewing everything in sight (including walls, furniture), jumping and leaping and you are trying to teach her not to jump on people. Training a pup esp that first year is nearly a full time job.

The folks who tell you that if you get two pups close together, they will bond to each other more than to you are exactly right. You want her to bond to you and your family FIRST, then to a companion dog.

Our girl was 1 1/2 years old when we added a second dog to the household. They are best buds, BUT her first loyalty is to me (as it should be).

You and Ruby will both be better off if you are patient and wait (at least 6 months)...

And I would not crate them together...

I have raised two pups from the same litter, so can speak with some experience about having two puppies.

First, we became so amazingly sleep deprived the first couple of months that I am amazed we survived! They simply were never on the same schedule, so one would need outside, then an hour later the other would need outside. Our housetraining was complicated by one of the pups having repeated bladder infections, so perhaps it might be easier otherwise. OTOH, you never know what complications might arise.

I feel that two pups are far more than twice the trouble. They "feed" off each other. If one decides that it would be fun to dig a hole, then both get into it and soon you have a hole that goes halfway through the world! Taking two for a walk is challenging, especially while they are still young and eager. Everything about two is more than double as hard.

As for bonding, ours definitely bonded to each other, but they bonded very strongly to us, the humans, as well. Perhaps if you have a breed that is more dog-oriented than people-oriented this might be a problem, but it most definitely was not a problem with our pups.

Running wild in the yard? Not listening? Not coming when called? I just don't see where these statements come from. If you can train one dog, you can train two dogs.

But, speaking of training, when we went to obedience classes, DH took one pup and I took the other. I believe that this helped a lot with the bonding, not to mention dividing the effort between two humans. If you have another adult willing to help with the training, I think that would be much better.

I completely agree with eandhl about giving each pup separate time also. They will need that to bond with you and to know that they are special.

I would vehemently recommend NOT putting them in the same crate. We did for a long time and, as I mentioned above, we had a difficult time with housetraining. It wasn't until we separated them that we were really able to make progress. Part of that is because we couldn't tell which one was having accidents (this is also how we found out she had a bladder infection). Also, I think each dog needs a place to call their own.

So, I think having two pups is doable, but personally I would probably not do it again. I would probaby wait till one if fully housetrained and has been through either a puppy class or possibly the first obedience class. But then, DH and I both work all day. If you are home it might be easier.

How's that for a wishy-washy answer?

I would wait until your first puppy is trained in proper house manners (no jumping on people or counters, how to sit, stay, come, etc.), and is totally housebroken. It is easier to train one dog, since she will have your total focus, and a huge BONUS --- once that dog is trained, she will teach the new puppy for you! Not that you don't have to train the new pup at all, but the new pup will tend to do what the 'old' pup does. That's how it worked with my dogs and also my dad's dogs. I had mutts, he has Goldens.

You will also be able to socialize the first pup with other dogs and determine whether she is alpha or not. If you have an alpha dog, it is best that the new dog is not alpha. Even when they are puppies, you can usually tell which ones are alpha and which are not, so you can get a submissive second pup. Believe me, that's the ideal combo. Two alphas are very challenging.

Best of luck with your new puppy.

Why do you ask for advice and then not attend to the advice? I know you are not obligated to do so, but you are looking for advice, yet your mind is already made up, so I think you really want confirmation of your choice, which you may not get.

Good luck anyway.

If you don't know how much work and trouble a puppy can be, you really should reconsider getting another one, though : )

Your pup is 7 weeks old. My pup is 14 1/2 weeks. She is awake 14 hours a day now. That is 14 hours going at full speed, getting into everything. With a pup, one correction doesn't do it. It can take a hundred times (or more) of correcting for the same thing before they get it. Between doing basic obedience and correcting her for getting into what she shouldn't(lamps cords, rugs, trying to pull up the carpet, etc.), I am also going full speed for 14 hours a day. At this age, it doesn't matter how many toys they have, they still want to explore what they shouldn't have.

It sounds like you have already made up your mind about getting a second pup. I just wanted to give you a bit of a reality check of what it will be like in just a few short weeks.

Good Luck.

I have a friend who has been training dogs for 23 years and when she got a puppy last year after several years of owning adult dogs, she told me she can't understand why anyone would ever want a puppy! One puppy is a ton of work, and if you are a stay at home mom raising 3 kids, I don't know how you will find the time or patience for two puppies, to train them properly so that they are well-behaved and don't turn into the obnoxious, disobedient dogs we complain about on this forum. I agree with elly - it sounds like you made up your mind before even posting and were just looking for others to validate your opinion. Think long and hard about this because it would really be sad if the two puppies ended up becoming two more shelter dogs in need of rescue.

Several people have said "It sounds like you have already made up your mind.."

I hope you do not take this defensively, or any other advice that is negative about your wanting a second puppy. We are not trying to admonish you or make you feel like you don't know what you are doing. Honestly, most of us here have 'been there, done that', and are truly giving advice from experience and most importantly, from the heart. Like you, we love~ love~ love~ our pets, and only want to help others have a wonderful life with theirs.

Personally no I don't think two puppies at the same time is a good idea. I do think dogs should have a doggie buddy tho. Two puppies raised together tend to be much more interested in each other that in you. That makes training more difficult. I've seen lots of cases where puppies are raised together that they are so bonded to each other they pitch screaming hissy fits whenever you try to separate them for any reason, like one has to stay at the vet's for a few days. I think it's much better to let the first get to about a year old then add a second.

Lisa

I think you should feel very comfortable asking for advice, and not following it. This is your life, and you don't have to be obedient to anyone here. You have three children, and some question whether you can handle two puppies? You can handle whatever you want to handle.

I think your strongest consideration is what is your house like? We would not take puppies outside to a large area, and let them run. We would keep them in a smaller area until we had more control.

We would not allow puppies to have the free run of the house, but would confine them in an area where we could watch them. In our home we have two large rooms where we spend most of our time. Almost always there is someone in one of the rooms, and that is where the dogs are. The outlets and cords are blocked, and we are nearby if they need us.

We spent a few weeks going outside with the puppies so they would be safe. I frankly would rather do that once with two puppies instead of doing it, then repeating it a year later. We kept magazines, puzzles, etc. for when we took them out. Little puppies are too vulnerable to nature.

As far as dog obedience goes, if it is obedience at a school, I would never take them together. In the home, they are like children. They are much easier to train if you wait until they have the maturity to understand what you are telling them. I think people have many problems because they try to train a dog too soon.

I love having my dogs around, and they are extremely important to me. However, they are not my babies. I enjoy watching them interact with each other. I do not relish the moments that the dog and I have together on a sofa watching TV. I do not allow the dogs on a sofa. We are all different. You are smart enough to think before making a decision, and curious enough to read the pros and cons, and then make your own decision.

Only you can know what your life is like and know if you want another puppy.

I just love these forums, just like everyone else, but we must look at them as a friendly form of entertainment. We do not make rules for others, and shoudl not take ourselves very serious.

I hope you let us know what you decide.

Sammy

I usually spend my time at DOG forums. Nobody would recommend that you get 2 puppies at the same time unless you know what you're doing.

Excerpt:
"People can have more than one dog if they do it right. I currently have 10 or 12 dogs and we are raising 3 puppies. But they are all kenneled separately and we do not allow them to play together."

Here is a link that might be useful: Raising 2 puppies at the same time, why it's a bad idea.

Ha! Been there done that!

We ended up with two Mini Labradoodles pups last Sept. Honestly, we didn't start out going to get two. Literally, one adopted my husband and the one we went to get I refused to not take.

For us, it has been a wonderful blessing. They are brother and sister from the same litter but have different personalities and looks. Amos loves to retrieve balls, Andi likes queaky toys. She likes to lay on the couch, Amos on the tile. She chases lizards, he couldn't catch one if he sat on his nose! He likes the pool, she doesn't.

Housebreaking was very hard but since I am home all day, we kinda trained each other. Knock on wood, we haven;t had an accident in about 5 months. The problem when we did have them was knowing who was responsible for the puddles. Poop piles we knew, cause Amos walking while going, Andi says in one place. Peeing was more frequent and even that wasn't all the time.

We did do obedience training and I would suggest that. Each has their own kennel for sleeping and each has a food bowl but they tend to share. Amos eats mostly in the morning and Andi in the evening.

They are my shadows during the day and my husbands at night. As they have gotten older, now 13 months, they still play together, running and chasing each other but they often when one wants to go outside, the other doesn't follow.

So for us, it has been wonderful. They are both lovers, affectionate to both my husband and I and to each other.

Carole, that is an interesting article.
I noticed two things in the article that would concern me. One is that many of the breeds are more protective than docile. He speaks about German Shepherds, Mastiffs, and Chows. Our poster here is talking about Golden Retrievers and Labs.

Many people who had questions had left their dogs alone outside, and had not trained them. I believe that Rosegarden3 intends to train her dogs, and walk them. As you would quickly agree (I think) there is a huge difference between walking the dogs in a controlled walk, and letting them run in a fenced area.

Having said this, I for one appreciate you giving us this link. It certainly does give a dog owner some serious things to think about. I believe that Leerburg is the name of the maker of the prong collar I use. I think he is a leading maker of pet supplies. I also think that his cautions are extremely important, but do not relate to dogs I have chosen.

I think that a stay at home mom is in a different category than the people who have written in with problems. We simply have not had problems in our home with the dogs, although our puppies were a year apart. We have had, and now have an older dog with the puppy. But we are always here, we are attentive, and walk them daily. We simply do not have those problems.

We also must observe that people write in for advice when they have problems. Who would write when they do not have problems.

If I were to look for another dog after having read that link, I would definitely discuss the link with the new breeder.

Again, I for one truly appreciate the link, but would proceed with what I wanted, but with caution. German Shepherds and Goldens are different. I would be willing to bet that the author of the link does not spend nearly the time with his puppies that rosegarden3 will. He is too busy being a boss and writing.

Sammy

Yeah it's fine if you don't want to follow the advice but don't argue with us. We all take time out of our lives to respond. You get a second dog when you no longer need to worry about the first one. If you're married the you can have puppies as a team like mboston. That could work. But not for one person.

I will just add that making an impulsive decision is how dogs wind up in shelters. You may love having a puppy, but the dont stay puppies very long.

I did not want to respond so soon, but must reply. I have been told on this forum to do many things that are not correct. I have also been criticized in many areas where the poster is giving an opinion, and is not correct.

When it is all said and done, the best ones to check with are your Vet and breeder.

Whatever your decision, you can feel free to come here for help, or to come here to tell us what a great decision you made. Many of us are here to help, and not here to push our opinions on you.

It is unbelievable what bad advice we can get on this forum that generally has great advice. We are all involved in our own worlds, and often do not see the worlds of others.

Sammy

I'm not saying your are asking for trouble, however,,,since I have three females (big, bigger, biggest) I think I have a few cents to add.

One dog is wonderful, but that one dog does tend to get lonely for dog companionship. That's when a second comes along. Two dogs are also wonderful, but, twice as much work, etc,,,,of course you also get twice as much love. Two dogs are just lots of work.

Three dogs are more than twice the work of two. It's always something. With two or three, if you don't plan on major work initially to keep them in line, then you are going to run into major major trouble, because they form their own little pack. Extremely minor issues can rapidly develop into major ones right before your eyes, and you simply must be prepared to deal with it, lest you have a disaster on your hands. You need to plan on extremely close supervision of your brood for at least 6 months or they will wreck everything. A good obedience class would also be a thing for all to experience.

I would say, if your pup is adjusting well, then go for another. They will grow together, bond etc. Just be prepared for anything that may or may not occur. Educate yourself about what it is really going to take financially and otherwise.

Good luck!!

SG

Even tho Ed Frawley is speaking of Shepherds and other working type dogs what he is describing as far as how the dogs relate to each other and to people has nothing to do with breed of dog. It's just dog behavior. There are some traits and characteristics that are breed specific and some that are just dog. Doesn't matter if it's a 2 pound Chihuahua or a 200 pound Mastiff.

Lisa

mboston - thanks for sharing your positive experience. I have plenty of friends and collegues who have done quite well with two puppies. Of course you have to devote the time and effort.

I don't agree with QQ that this would be why a puppy would end up in a shelter. Too much assumption regarding the original poster. How does QQ know what OP's life habits are?

I have been staying away alot because of all of the judgmental stuff.

rosegarden3 - I wish you the best regardless of what you decide. I think you should research it a bit and perhaps talk to your vet, but in reality you are going to live it. Only you know what kind of support you will be getting from your family when its nightime and a puppy is fussing. In my experience with friends who have done it, the dogs tend to be quieter at night if they have a bud. Just speaking from what I have seen friends and family do with two pups at the same time.

You can make it work if you want it badly enough. I would same that the aforementioned sentence applies to most everything in life.

Best wishes!

I don't see how QQ is making an assumption about the OP's lifestyle. He is offering something else to think about. Puppies that are obtained impulsively often do endup being passed around from household to household or in the pound because the owner doesn't know how too or can't deal with it or wants the problem fixed now. She asked for opinions and she has both pro's and con's off having two puppies together. Now it's up to her to continue to research and decide whats best for her situation.

Lisa

mboston, we posted at about the same time, and I had not seen your picture. Your dogs are precious. What a picture! I am glad you posted it.

labmomma, I hope you continue to post. I think that some of our conversations become too intense sometimes, but in a way, it may be because we do not really know each other.

We do not have gestures or smiles. We also do not have a basic assumption that we like and trust each other, so it is easy to feel rather sensitive when remarks are made.

Sammy

Once again I get a little too much credit for a 2 sentence reply. I make only brief general replies here now unfortunately people are reading too much into them. I never guarantted the puppy would wind up in a shelter but ask anyone who has ever worked in a shelter why adolescent dogs get turned in. And when you're done dry heaving from those tales you may then agree that getting a puppy isn't a decision to take lightly. It's a committment to the next 15 years or so.
With the stroke of a pen, it's a decision that will change your life. For better or worse.
Think it over... that's what I'm saying. And when you come to you senses don't argue with yourself!

QQ- love the red font. How'd you do it?

I don't see a red font. All of the posts are just alike.

Sammy

I would wait. Not because of bonding or yadda yadda. But at this point it's really hard to tell what kind of issues you will encounter with your new pup.

It's hard to tell at 7 weeks what kind of behavioural issues you may encounter. If in 3 months this dogs got a wild streak that you have trouble controlling, another pup will be just way too much work on top of it. I think 6 months + may be a good time to start considering a new pup. That way they will be close in age/energy level and all that, but you'll have a general feel of the eldest bahviour and personality, and a refresher on training so you may be better equipped to train the second with a little less stress.

Honestly what I think you should do is search the net top to bottom on having two labs. Lab rescue, information pages, breeder pages etc etc. Those kinds of sites generall have stories and such of having one, two, the tell you all the problems behaviourally you may encounter with one (anxiety, agression, or whatever, specific to your breed) and then once you're armed with all the knowledge you can find, you'll be better equipped to decide if you really want two now, or to add a second into your family in a little while.

Sammy - I see red and it is only on QQ post.

Anyway, here's an analogy. What about a woman who has twins by choice?

I have constantly had people look at me with horror when I used to say I had 3 labs. I never asked them why they had 3 kids???

Just a thought.

Twins is different. OP is caught up in the rapture as Anita Baker would say. Plus there is the presumption that there is a pair of humans to care for the babies.

As for the red text, I did it in red using an html tag that specified font attributes in a manner that is not compatible across all browsers. Why? Because it's easier to remember "red" than it is to remember hexidecimal triplets.
No, but why?
To make it easier to find my reply. It's the only red one. (New policy)

Hello, I have done several searches here for my 2 dogs and 4 cats, but never had the time to post.

My 2 dogs are 15 and 16, we adopted the 2nd one when the first was a year-old.

I just want to add another thought to having two dogs close in age, it is emotionally and physically more difficult once they become elderly and very needy.

Numerous vet visits, nursing, carrying them up and down stairs because of arthritis, special diets, incontinence and numerous trips to the yard. Both are mostly deaf and have cataracts and can easily become disoriented unless they are watched.

It is a labor of love, but as most of you know can be exhausting with just one dog. Lisa

I am so glad someone linked to Leerburg! I am a frequent visitor there, and Ed Frawley has some really sound advice. Obviously, there are different approaches to everything, and Ed can sometimes come off like a big meanie to the uninitiated, but IMO, he is one of the better sources of modern (and practical) dog training information.

As far as getting two puppies, just ask yourself why you want two puppies right now. The way I do things, it would be incredibly difficult for me to handle two puppies. I would need to crate them separately, walk them separately, train them separately, etc. At that age, pretty much every interaction is training, whether you scheduled it that way or not. You can't compete with another puppy when you need to correct some behavior or teach some new one.

When I have a puppy, it's attached to me by a leash whenever it's outside of the crate. I don't want two puppies attached to me at all times. I would feel bad leaving the other puppy in its crate while I worked with the other (an older dog is another matter entirely). Between working and other "life things", one puppy is all I can handle. If you're able to devote that much more time, you can conceivably give each puppy as much time as a working person can give one. If you really have that much time, I just keep thinking about how much more time you can devote to one puppy, ending up with an even better *dog* down the line.

Even waiting six months will make a huge difference. An eight month old dog can be reliably housebroken and trained in basic obedience. Everything after that, barring any major problems along the way, is just gravy (unless you have serious sport/working considerations). You'll have much more time to devote to a new puppy, and the two will still be able to play together at your leisure.

Puppies are great fun, but they are a ton of work. Ultimately, you are trying to raise a large creature (labs get pretty big) to interact with another species (humans) safely and politely. That's a big responsibility.

Wow! I did not mean to create such a debate. I appreciate everyone's reply! I love having Ruby, and her training is going great! But I think I am going to give more thought to getting another.

Thank You All

Rose

I've had dogs all my life. Always had two, once I had my own house. Reason? Because dogs are pack animals. Is it more work for the owner to have two dogs? Is it more work to have two children?

There are many types of dogs. Most of mine were medium sized mutts, but I did wind up with a 145 pound Malamute and a 20 pound collie mix. Then there was the 60 pound Lab mix and a 6 pound Chiuhuahua mix. The point is that having two dogs depends on a great many factors. First, how much expereince does the owner have? I mean experience training dogs to be dogs---not Sit/Stay/Shake/Fetch. What kind of dogs are paired? Aggressive breeds? Toys? Hunters? Active? And what are the personalities of the individual dogs? How much space is available for the dogs? Lots more, but those are the basics.

There are as many 'problems' introducing a new dog to an existing situation as there are in raising two or more. I read the fellows advice---the Shepherd breeder----and agree with it for his type dogs and the training he wants the dogs to learn.

Watch The Dog Whisperer on the National Geographic Channel---he has a pack of dogs, many of which were rescued at the point of euthenasia. Many of his pack are pit bulls and Rottweiler----about 35 or so.

That point is that the number of dogs is not the issue---the treatment and discipline is.

I now have two very aggressive dogs. A Rottweiler/German Shepherd mix---used to be almost totally out of control. Local cops with the neighborhood watch program would not go near the yard when Max was out. He was 1&1/2 when I brought him home. And I got a puppy---Louie the Lip, supposed to be Lab/Border Collie mix. The fellow from whom I got louie pretty much had to lie to get rid of the 6 puppies. Why? Because as Louie grew, it became very evident his daddy was not a Border Collie. Dad was a pit bull.

Ok, I also have several grandchildren from infant to teenager. They visit often. I am lucky in that my DIL is a dog groomer---so the kids know dogs and rules concerning dogs.

Long story short. Max went to visit the cops who would not get near him---they all petted him. My 2 year old granddaughter can put both dogs in the Down position by pointing. The two stay inside while we are gone---they are watchdogs first and soccer playing pets second. Notice I did not say buddies. I have human buddies---I have dogs as pets. They are a part of the family, Max sleeps beside my side of the bed----but they are dogs. Period.

There are strict rules. The two dogs are aggressive personalities. No running games, no dogs chasing kids. Period. Tug of war games have rules anf limits. Every time during a tug of war gane with Louie, the game is stopped by saying OK. He ceases IMMEDIATELY. Do I let him win? Not often, because he gets disinterested when he wins. That is a good thing for the kids. The dogs can never get on top of a kid. PERIOD. NEVER. That is dominant behavior. All humans are dominate.

So, you can see there are lots of ways to raise lots of dogs. Takes some experience and help to do it right.

There are a number of things to consider. Some dogs that go home with siblings bond hard to that sibling and can be harder to train, on the other hand, your dogs will always have a play mate, making for a healthier mental status (barring any unforseen issues) I would say if you want them and can afford them and are willing to put them through at least basic training, go for it.

You have so many good threads to consider. Some people here have such different lifestyles than I have, and I can identify with many. I am glad that you introduced this subject since it has given us so many things to consider.

I hope you won't just get a new dog or not get one, and then disappear. I hope you keep us posted on how things are.

I especially hope you describe your rose garden. You do have one, don't you, since that is your name?

Mine is suffering this summer. Lisa has 3 times the hostas that I have roses.

Sammy

Handymac, dogs are pack animals, and part of having dogs as pets involves incorporating them into a human pack. The prevailing pack is really the one that feeds, shelters, and cares for the pet dog in question. As long as a dog fits into the owner's pack (whether that's one dog and one human or multiple humans and dogs), that's great. Dogs can easily learn to tolerate (even if they don't necessarily like) other dogs, as long as the proper pack structure has been developed along the way.

IMO, (granted, it's just my opinion), it's much more important for a dog to fit into the human's pack. Other pet dogs are simply an extension of the human's pack. As far as I'm concerned, my dogs should interact with other dogs on my terms, not theirs. I have yet to see a dog drop off another dog at a shelter. I have seen a lot of dogs dumped at the shelter by well meaning humans. The road to Hell...good intentions...and so on.

It's obviously possible to raise two puppies at the same time. However, it's still going to be at least twice as much (if not more) work as having one puppy and raising it well. If you're up to the challenge, so be it. If not, it's certainly not a source of shame.

jenc11, why do you attach the dog to you with a leash? I think that would make it difficult to handle more dogs at once, but why would you do that? Do you have large or small dogs?

Why do you have to train them separately? Of course you could do some training separately, but not all. If I get out the treat, and say "sit", whoever sits gets a treat. At one time all three would sit instantly.

When we got our puppy, we were able to spend a great deal of time with him, but the best way to get him to go outside to do his business was to say "go get Ricky". Ricky would come in proudly, walk out through the doggy door, and do some business. He always could squeeze out some. That made training quite easy.

I am distracted, I guess, but my original question was why do you attach a leash to the dog and to you when it is out of the crate? I have never done this, and have never heard of it. (If one were to consider that a rule, I can see that having more than one puppy at a time would be a problem.)

Sammy

why do you attach a leash to the dog and to you when it is out of the crate

Sammy, I did this when my girl was a pup. I read about it in a dog training book. It enabled me to keep her supervised while I was doing other things (like sitting at the computer). Puppies should NEVER be unsupervised when out of their crate. And you certainly don't want to crate them all day and night.

If she started chewing something inappropriate (like a chair leg), I'd stop her and give her something appropriate to chew.

So, when you are doing the dishes or running the cleaner, the dog is hooked to you? We have never done that, and I am just surprised. We sectioned off a room for the dogs and put in their bed, toys, etc. That way they could run, jump, and do other things, but not get into trouble. We also blocked under the bed, but tried to give them plenty of room to sniff, run, and do their thing.

For awhile they were fenced from other dogs, but could play with them from inside the fence.

It would never occur to me to hook a dog to me. I think we would trip, they would scratch, and play with my legs. This is a surprise.
Sammy

So, when you are doing the dishes or running the cleaner, the dog is hooked to you?
No, she was in her crate then.

It would never occur to me to hook a dog to me
It hadn't occurred to me either until I read about it in a dog training book. (I read several so don't remember exactly which book, but may have been "How to Raise the Perfect Puppy".

Mostly I did it when I was working at the computer. At the time, I worked from home and spent a lot of time at the computer. Nowadays, I'm retired, but when I sit down at the computer, she comes and lays down next to where I am. :)):))

That way they could run, jump, and do other things, but not get into trouble.
Apparently it worked for you. When she was teething, Maggie would literally chew on the walls, furniture legs, everything, if she wasn't supervised. More than once, she chewed the drywall when I wasn't watching her.

I encouraged her to do her running, jumping, digging outside, not inside the house. We haven't needed a crate in years. I can now leave both dogs alone in the house and nothing is damaged.

I think we would trip, they would scratch, and play with my legs
She didn't play with my legs. When I was walking around, it was the beginning of her training to not get inbetween my feet and to walk nicely on the leash.

Sammy, it's possible to do things differently and get equally good results, so please don't think I'm insisting it's the only way.

I hate baby gates, closed doors, etc. to block off areas. I don't want to jump up and run across the room every three seconds to deal with a naughty puppy when I'm just trying to relax and let the puppy hang out with us. If I can't devote 100% of my time to supervising the puppy, it only takes a split second for the puppy to get into something inappropriate. My philosophy is more one of houseproofing the puppy than puppy-proofing the house. The puppy-proof part of the house is the crate.

I can take the leash off if I want to play one-on-one with the puppy in the living room for a while, but for 99% of household interaction, it's easier for me to make sure I have a physical connection to the puppy. He can't chase the cats if I've got the end of the leash. He can't chew on the dining room table if I won't let him reach it. He can't disappear for two seconds to pee in the dining room, etc. As they get older and more reliable, a drag leash allows corrections without requiring me to actually hold onto the dog 24/7.

It's not foolproof, but it works for me.

sammy - I especially hope you describe your rose garden. You do have one, don't you, since that is your name?

I do have several rose bushes, lots of reds and pinks, yellow, white, and 2 that are white with red on the tips (I have no idea what the names are) from tiny ones to very large ones, 4 are climbing on the arbour/entrance. but my garden is more of a cottage garden and vegi garden and I have put in a small pond and waterfall just this year (I'm still working on this with help from the pond forum). I love to garden. but the rosegarden3 name came from, my first name is Rose, gardening is my hobby, and I have 3 kids. When it is all done I will post pictures.

Yes, I have a large rose garden. Well, it is large to me. We have 260 large rose bushes. I love it. I keep a record of the names of all the roses, and I even have a written map in case something happens to the rose tags.

I did not intend to sound like I was judging anyone's lifestyle. We have 2 Golden Retrievers, and keep them in a recreation room and kitchen. We do use the gates since our puppy thinks he is human and believes in equality. When he was younger, we left the gates up, and in the recreation room, we kept hardware cloth around the perimeter of the room. That way he couldn't get to the controls of the TV, under the bed, or into anything that would hurt him. He has a little more freedom now that he is older, but we still watch him.

I came in today after having worked in the garden, and noticed that twice my husband and I tracked mud all through the house - on the carpet and all. We do not worry about maintaining a clean and tidy house, just a safe one. Most people don't live like we do, but I think that most gardeners do unless they have help.

Sammy

Because dogs are pack animals, I think it is good for dogs to have a buddy.

I think its easier for the human, from a training and maintenance perspective, if the dogs are separated in age by a couple years.

I think that there is a honeymoon period when puppies are very young. I've only had one of my dogs from puppyhood, and she was the most loving well manner adorable thing until she was about 10 weeks. Then at 10 weeks, she learned how to climb over the babygate. At 13 weeks she worked out how to open her crate. At 16 weeks, she learned how to get the screen door open. I'm just glad she never worked out how to open the front door. So my sweet, well behaved little angel, turned out to be a super smart pain in the butt. Now, I wouldn't trade her for anything, but she's handful, and there is no way I could have coped with two puppies at the same time.

So I'd encourage you to at least wait until your puppy is closer to six months so that you have a better idea about what type of personality the pup you have now is like. Additionally, when we want to obedience classes with my puppy, there were two sets of siblings from the same litter. And both sets were really bonded to each other. Now, I think with good socialization that this doesn't have to be the case, but I imagine it could be more difficult.

Yes. What joepyeweed said. IF you've got a dog that is mature, knows obedience, potty trained all of that the puppy wil learn from those great examples and will make your job easier. But two pups at once.... aye aye aye.

Simialrly the pup will pick up some unwanted stuff too if that is not squared away. Like jumping on people. That is my problem.

And the Dog Whisper is NOT an instructional seminar. It is TV... make believe... with numerous disclaimers "Do not attempt without first contacting a professional". It compacts weeks worth of work into 15 minute segments and not reality. The show aims to correct serious behavior problems with the people on the show and NOT to give pointers on basic obedience. I enjoy the show. I think Cesar is a great show man. But it's for entertainment purposes only.

Several years ago I had three very geriatric dogs. Knowing that they wouldn't be around indefinitely, and wanting the "next generation" to have an opportunity to learn from the oldsters (which is, in my opinion, the optimal way to train a puppy), I adopted a puppy. Only one of the three geriatrics (Bootsers) was still active enough to even try to play with the puppy (Tasha), but even Bootsers couldn't keep up with her for long. Within a month, Boots was completely worn out, while Tasha was becoming more and more active.

Tasha is a herder, so she has exceptional intelligence and inexhaustable energy. She housebroke very quickly but drove us all nuts with her maniacal activity level. There was NO WAY I was going to take on another puppy in addition to Tasha; she was already more than most dog lovers could handle, but I had to do something to rescue the oldsters from her constant bothering. So two months after adopting Tasha, I adopted a young adult Aussie, Pippin, to be her companion and play buddy. They were a perfect match. Pip was past the puppy stage and reasonably well-mannered (needed work on his recall and not chasing the cats), and Tasha couldn't wear him out. The geriatrics could go back to sleeping their days away in peace, while I kicked the herders outside for an hour or two to exhaust each other.

It's another option to consider - adopting a young adult rather than another puppy to companion your current puppy. Raising a puppy is a tremendous amount of work, but it's easier when the pup has an adult dog to learn from (assuming the adult dog is well behaved).

BTW, even though Tasha was raised in a house full of dogs, she has always been most closely bonded to me. Bonding is more a matter of training and individual personality than it is a matter of whether or not the puppy is raised with other canines.

Laurie

I don't often agree with QQ, and don't necessarily disagree, but I think her assessment of Cesar is right on. It is television, and works for him. Where does he keep his dogs?

Where are my dogs? Right here with me most of the time. If I try the Cesar treatment, they will just wait until I get over it.

He isn't bad, but let's get real. When was the last time you saw a guy going down a public street roller blading with dogs?

When I take Blaze to Dog Obedience, the trainer that I thought originally might be cruel, can take Blaze and Blaze will do whatever he wants. Blaze is smart, and knows he is in school, and also knows he wants to be the best. (I believe this even though I can feel your laughter.) When we get home, school is over, and he can be the jumping puppy again.

That is what I think Cesar does. He walks in, and performs, but does not live with the dog. Or lives with it in his style that is very different from mine.

Sammy

Sammy, you've hit the nail on the head. Dogs aren't that much different from children, in that respect. You know how a kid will listen to a stranger who tells them to stop doing something or be quiet? :) Your dogs only know the trainer on his/her terms. The trainer is in a position to constantly be "on the ball" and train 100% of the time. Your dog sees you all the time. Sometimes, you're sick, tired, bored, annoyed, etc. and the dog knows you will sometimes slack in your dog training. Trainers go through the same types of issues with their own house dogs.

I've been there with you. Isn't it awful to see perfect responses all the time with a trainer, but it all seems to fly right out the window as soon as you get home?

Well I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not but am flattered that you'd consider agreeing with me however it seems as if you might have read a little too much into what I wrote.

I'll give you an example. I overheard a discussion a while back where some guy was telling another guy about this show called the dog whisperer. The other guy had never seen it before. Well the Guy#1 was saying how amazing cesar is and how in 5 minutes, he'll take a viscious pit bull and turn it into the most obedient dog you've ever seen. He's incredible. He'll walk in and flip the dog over on his back and from then on, the dog is instantly a whole new dog

It's like watching the TV series HOUSE and then feeling confident in practicing emergency medicine. OR like watching Law & ORder then becoming a lawyer. Sorry but it's a TV show. The only thing anyone should be learning from the show is what kind of state of total disrepair your dogs can be in if they suffer from extreme anxiety, aggressive behavior etc. And also that there are other ways of treating behavior problems so consult a professional. There's a hundred captions that pop up during every episode warning people not to attempt the maneuvers. It is not a show about basic obedience!!! His business is called THE DOG PSYCHOLOGY CENTER OF LOS ANGELES. It is not called the LA center for Dog obedience classes.

About the bonding issue. I don't believe anyone here thinks a second, 3rd,4th dog will not bond to humans. What people have said is - Two puppies at the same time can often bond more to each other than the humans. It doesn't always happen but it can. The preventative measures that help are things mentioned above. Time alone with each pup, separate walks as well as obedience training alone with each pup. These things can be handled nicely with enough dedicated help in a home but it is just easier to wait till no. 1 pup is well on his/der way to a trained, bonded member of the household then add no. 2. Each pup gets all the special attention they need in the formative time.

Sammy, Blaze becomes jumping puppy when you get home again because you let him. If you are not consistent then your very smart dog takes advantage immediately.

Its only after years of consistent behavior on my part that my adult dogs, now understand what they must do to be the wonderful dogs that they are...

I have just the opposite problem, particularly with one 3 year old female. She listens to me, but not to anyone else. We are still working on that...