Ah, I should add: DH and I were hoping to fix it ourselves, buy the materials and install it (DH has installed fences before), and save money rather than have someone do it and pay him. We were planning to wait a couple of months until the ground got less gloppy to put the fenceposts in. But our neighbor wants the fence fixed now so that she can have her five dogs in her yard and not have to worry about them.

If we install it ourselves, we could save a fair amount of $$. Maybe we should do it now instead of wait?

Hi Flyleft!!!

I don't know what the law is, but if a tree of mine damaged my neighbor's property, I'd feel responsible for the repairs. That's just me. I'd also expect my neighbor to do same if it were theirs, or at the very least offer to pay half.

We live in an extremely wooded area, so believe me, we have thought about this potential. The price we pay to live with beautiful trees.

Ivette

It was your neighbor's tree, so SHE should fix it. Or at the very least, you all go half and half.

My BIL's tree fell and damaged his neighbor's roof during an ice storm, thankfully the damage wasn't that bad, but he was legally responsible for it and his insurance paid.

I wouldn't pay for all of it, it's just not right...unless you can afford it and your neighbor's can't.

Five dogs? oy. lol

You are responsible for the repair UNLESS your neighbor knew that the tree was in bad shape and presented an imminent hazard and did nothing about it.

I'm sure you are on good terms with and want to keep harmony with your neighbor. That's when things can become touchy.

You are not responsible for providing a fence to confine their dogs. Technically, as the owner of the tree, they are responsible for the repair to your damaged property. Their homeowner liability covers your loss. But since you describe the damage as being relatively modest it may be even less than their deductible. And, you're not looking to go through your insurance and have an issue.

Can your DH close the gap with something temporary until the weather permits a proper repair? A suitable professional would insist on good ground conditions to assure his work is proper and your DH should too.

I guess that would depend on the age of the fence--given that fences do need repair and replacement--and the expense is often shared between both neighbors. If the fence was fairly new, then I think the "fair" solution would be for the neighbor to cover the cost; if it was older, then I think both sides should share the expense. In interests of maintaining good neighborly relations, an offer to share expenses would be nice, but not expected. I think securing the dogs is a legitimate concern. Perhaps there is some temporary fix that can be done until you are ready to have the fence repaired.

"You are responsible for the repair UNLESS your neighbor knew that the tree was in bad shape and presented an imminent hazard and did nothing about it."

Yep - I had a tree in my yard that came down during a micro-burst, the tree was healthy.
It took off the back of my house and my neighbors.

My insurance wouldn't cover her repairs - she had to file a claim w/hers. There was no was I could pay out of pocket for repairs to her house even if I wanted too.

In the end it worked out, she ended up using the same people who rebuilt my back and she was really happy that she was able to reconfigure the area to be rebuilt into livable space.

Jim

We had a branch fall off our neighbour's tree at our old house. It landed on the fence on both sides of our 30 foot lot - pretty big branch.

My DH cut it up, since our neighbour said it wasn't in his yard, it wasn't his problem. Grrrrrrr!!!

Here in Canada, each homeowner would file a claim with their own insurance company for their own property. A fence would fall under outbuildings.

It's most likely that the insurance companies would split the cost, with each homeowner paying their own deductible.

Then you lose your claims-free discount which could be 20%.

Hardly seems worth it to go through insurance sometimes.

What kind of $$ are you looking at to fix the fence? If you add up both your deductibles, it might make sense to split the cost.

This is one of those issues that I would hate to fight with my neighbour over. The relationship with our former neighbour was never the same.

I've had some moments of confusion following this thread as to whose tree/whose fence but if it's your tree and her fence and you should repair/replace the fence as necessary. You have offered to repair the fence yourself and are confident that your husband will do a proper job so I think she should be responsible for keeping her dogs contained (five of them?) until you can get the repairs done. You are not responsible for keeping her dogs in; however I do see you being responsible for the repairs. I would keep the insurance companies out of it if at all possible.
If it's one of those shared-fence arrangements that some subdivisions have, then she should share in the cost of materials, especially in view of the fact that your DH is doing the work. Good luck.

Who owns the fence? Is it exactly on the property line or on your property or hers? If it is her fence on her land, you shouldn't have to pay anything. If it is your fence, what she is required to pay probably varies from state to state. But it would be nice if she offered to pay half, especially since she wants the fence for her dogs. And if it is your fence, you don't have to fix it. You could tear it down if you wanted to.

If she wants to hire someone to fix the fence, you can tell her that you were planning on fixing it yourselves and how much that would cost. Then perhaps offer to pay half of the fix it yourself cost if she wants to go ahead and fix it now.

Unless the tree was neglected, the neighbor is not any more liable legally than you are.

Here is what I suggest: get an estimate for labor and materials. Tell the neighbor that you will pay for half of the materials and that your husband will do half of the labor. If she wants to do the fence ASAP and money is tight, explain your circumstances. Perhaps your husband can offer to do another project on her yard in exchange for her picking up 100% of the fence labor cost.

It's my understanding that an overhanging branch from a neighbor's tree is my responsibility to trim back at my expense as long as I don't cut back into the tree owner's property without permission. If it falls and damages my property then it's my responsibility to fix it. Also, if the branch lands in my yard it's up to me to remove the debris.

Now, it would be nice if the neighbor offered to help pay for the repairs and cleanup, but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

Depends on the law in the State in which you live. Here, if it was her tree (on her property line), she is responsible. She should contact her homeowners and have them come out, take an estimate, etc. If the tree was on your property, then it is your responsibility, your homeowners. The fence repair also depends on whose tree caused the damage. I don't think it matters whose property the fence is on, what matters is the trigger (whose tree it was that fell). Hopefully you have a nice relationship with your neighbor. I would feel the neighbor out as to who they believe should pay for the fence. Do you have a clear lot survey in order to assess whose tree and whose fence? If not, perhaps your neighbor has a survey.

I am sooooo glad I do not have neighbors just for this very reason. Sometimes things can go smoothly, alternatively, things do not go so smoothly. Depends on the neighbor and the issue.

Best of luck sorting the whole thing out!

It depends on what state you live in, and whether the tree was in poor health, and whether your neighbor knew the tree was in poor health.

The best thing to do is call your local Department of Public Works, or your local court clerk, and they will give you guidance about this.

fly
Sorry this happened & fortunately the damage was not severe!

I read thru many posts - & I would suggest
1. Contact your neighbor and advise him of the damage & also request that he have a tree person inspect the tree - I have seen perfectly healthy looking trees come down
- See what his/her response is to your damage - I think a good neighbor would say "oh, fly I'm so sorry - please get an estimate for the repair & give it to me"
2. It wouldn't hurt to contact your insurance co - as they can best advise you about the liability - also, may advise you how to handle the tree - You may need to put something in writing to the owner that the tree caused damage & you are concerned there could be further damage fr. same tree. This way you have covered the advising the owner in writing.
3. I wouldn't offer anything at first labor or materials - just see what the neighbor is willing to do, decide your next step from there.

Reminds me - I have to advise my neighbor about a tree....

good luck!

Fence questions seem to fill the GW forum called "home disasters"--you should also cross-post over there.

(I hate to say it, but the fact that the neighbor said she wanted the fence repaired ASAP tells me she doesn't think she bears any responsibility. Hopefully your local ordinances will clearly state the rules!)

This happened to us (our tree - their house!) and here, in Maryland, it was their homeowner's insurance that was to fix it, not ours. The insurance agent told me the insurance industry's position is: your property damage, your insurance - doesn't matter where the tree is from. It makes sense if you think about it; there's no squabble about whose property the tree was officially on, or if it was on public property or state park property, etc. The agent said it all comes out in the wash in the end; it's so much cleaner and easier to cover the tangible property and not the tree.

It depends on your state law, but IF there is blame assigned, it is assigned to the person on whose property the tree takes root. If I were her and it were my tree I'd consider it 100% my responsibility. But were I you I might offer to help if I could.

My whole double-trunked 125' tall tree (it was actually two trees growing out of the same hole that Mother Nature planted 100 years or so ago) fell on my neighbor's fence and my company (State Farm) said that they don't cover fences, only structures and fences aren't structures. Houses are structures.

All in all, it pays to keep good neighbors, though. I can't see the fence, but hopefully it won't cost much for the materials.

"(I hate to say it, but the fact that the neighbor said she wanted the fence repaired ASAP tells me she doesn't think she bears any responsibility. Hopefully your local ordinances will clearly state the rules!)"

If the fence is flyleft's, she doesn't necessarily have to fix it. She could remove it instead.

If the neighbor lady wants to let her dogs out, she can get a fence of her own.

That's why I asked who owned the fence. If flyleft owns the fence, the neighbor really can't tell her to fix it, however much she wants to let her dogs out. If the neighbor owns the fence, and it was her tree that did the damage, I don't see where flyleft needs to pay anything to repair the fence.

If there is some odd arrangement about the fence, where it is somehow the property of both homeowners, then they should discuss the repairs. Flyleft and her husband have reasons for waiting, the neighbor has reasons for getting the repairs done quickly. There should be a way to compromise.

The law in every state I am aware of says the owner of the damaged property pays for the damage, not the owner of the tree. An exception is if the branch/tree was visibly rotten and the owner knew or should have known (was negligent) of the danger.

I went through this with my MIL's house last year. Her porch was destroyed by a pine tree that came from a neighbor's property. Her insurance covered it, not the owner of the tree.

Thanks so much for your posts -- I thought I'd posted a reply but I guess it never went through...

sue, and others who are debating *property* -- it's the fence *between* our properties, not our deck or porch or anything. Deck, or roof, or whatever I'd agree with you that it's our homeowner's insurance that should cover it. But fence I really don't know. We don't know whose fence it is, actually, since it predates both of our owning our homes.

The main thing I guess is to find out on whose property the fence is located...

The city or county will know whose fence it is. Get ahold of the building dept.

Ah, thanks threed -- never would have known that. There we were searching for surveyors. I prefer your approach :)

Well, called the city and was told they don't keep records of where fences are wrt peoples' property.

Oh well.

I have a contractor we've worked with successfully (when the tree fell on our house!) coming over Friday to see what he thinks...

He may be able to find the surveyors marks, if it was surveyed before the fence was put up.

Aha!! I have read through this whole thread to determine who owns the fence!

Your state's revised code probably has some "fence law" on the books. In most states, if a fence is used by two parties it's the responsibilty of both parties. You stand facing each other in the middle of the fenceline that divides your properties and everything to your right is your responsibility.

I would call the county and ask the law. I would also call your insurance person and ask what they know.

One clue as to the ownership of a fence is that the "inside" or "ugly" side of the fence is usually facing the owner's yard.

But there are exceptions to this rule (in my father's town, you can get a zoning variance to put the "pretty" side facing your yard), so you may need to have a survey done.

Or if both you and the neighbor want the fence, you can agree to split costs.

But it's probably a good idea to find out who owns what, and where your property line really ends. Fences can be a foot or more inside a property line.

you have gotten a lot of good advice already, my place would be what I want and my morals..personally.

and also their attitudes..i guess.

if they are demanding you fix it cause their dogs are no longer contained..that is not right. It is their dogs that they wish to contain, if your animals or livestock were roaming in to their yard and doing damage then they would have some right to complain, but if their tree damages a fence on the property line..why do they have a right to complain in the first place.

are there survey markers..is the fence on the line or inside your side?

when we had the property suveyed, we on purpose put our fence inside of the property line about 1/2" so that no portion of our fence was on the neighbor's property..thus it was OUR fence and we maintain it..if it is a shared fence then it should be equally shared by both properties, including expenses..

unfortunately people are responsible for the damage that their trees, or dogs, do to other people's property, however, the ICE may have been the damager not the tree..so it might have been the liable party.

can't bill the ice or expect it to do repairs..

if the tree was dead or dying that is a different story..but if it was just storm damage, it was just that storm damage..either you or your ins are liable.

if you don't trust someone else to fix it right or you want it done your way, then do it...make it clear to the neighbors it is not doable until the ground can be properly worked for the posts..that they can put up a temp restraint for their pets buy buying a few boards or some wire until it is fixed right.

You also could look at the plat of survey that you received when you purchased the house. It should have the fence marked on it and you'll be able to tell whose fence it is. If your lot is, say 50x200, your house is 40 ft wide, and the fence is 3 ft from your house, the fence is yours. The lot lines should show on the plat.

This has happened to us where a massive tree in our backyard started dropping huge limbs. We did know however who owned the fence. One damaged our neighbors fence and one crushed our truck. Our homeowners insurance took care of everything quickly and cordially for all parties. No deductible for us to pay. Our insurance didn't go up.

Camlan - good tip about the inside and outside of the fence. I'll have to remember that!

I have just a few things to add to the advice already given:

Fences are rarely directly on the property line. I think many ordinances actually prohibit that, just so fence squabbles don't erupt. Does your state or county have a web site that shows parcel boundaries? Mine does, and I can also view the lot lines along with an aerial view of the property. It's sometimes possible to see the fence if you zoom in.

Tree branches that hang over onto your property are your responsibility. You have the right to cut them off.

Trees that start shedding branches are often dying. And, trees that look perfectly healthy can have root rot or be rotted inside. Your neighbor should have the tree evaluated and/or taken down. What species is it?

If you wait for perfect soil conditions to install fence posts, you'll have a very short window of opportunity (and probably not for a couple months, as you know). The ground is probably not as gloppy as you think, unless there's standing water in the area. So you may be able to repair the fence now. Why not dig a test hole and find out?

Good luck finding the corner markers for your property. Often they're just a small metal pin. (Do you have a metal detector?) If you're lucky, there will be a piece of rebar, too.

My advice, like the others, is to figure out who owns the fence and go from there. If that can't be determined, split the cost to repair the fence yourselves.

Wow, good morning folks -- thanks for all the additional information/opinions. We know of *one* boundary marker, in front, but we need the one back where the fence is. Maybe I'll call the county to ask them re boundary maps as you describe, uxorial.

---------
Just went to the county site and saw an aerial photo with the boundaries imposed on it but the darn trees cover all the property lines! (did I mention we have a lot of tall fir trees in our little suburban area? :))

camlan, re the ugly side of the fence: DH and I were talking about this -- I've been visiting fence websites this week and I see that it can vary--some put the pretty side in, some put the pretty side out...some put the pretty side in and shake it all about...NOOO!!! Stop it! :) No, seriously, I checked that out on this fence and of course it's one of those alternating-board fences, so we don't know who put it up.

Anyway, I found the tax map with the distances from marker to marker and I guess I'll try to measure out the distance from one rebar-marker and see if I can find where it would take us.

Unless a surveyor actually installs the fence, fences are seldom put on the actual property line. All of our fences are what you'd call "good neighbor fences" to separate our yards from one another, but when we had to have a survey done for our remodel, our fences seldom fell right on the proerty line--most often they ran slightly crooked. I would never intuit that to mean the fence was not "owned" equally by both neighbors. When we recently redid a side fence we had to have it put entirely on our property (as survey showed it was about 3-4" on our side) and our neighbors had a raised bed abutting the fence with 3 very large and old birch trees with roots occupying the space where the fence would go. We had to reach what I'd call a compromise on the fence location or our neighbors would've had to take down their trees--which are really an asset to both of us with the beauty and shade they provide. We each paid 1/2 the cost.

I think there is a difference between the legalities of the situation and what is "reasonable" given you are neighbors. Why not sit down with your neighbor and come up with a reasonable solution? It would seem if the fence encloses both of your yards and both parties want the fence and the fence is old, both should share the cost equally to replace and the only issue to decide is when and who does the work. Finger pointing makes for bad neighborly relations and would not go there without very good and valid reasons.

You do the hokey pokey and you turn the fence around...

I'm with Val. Zum Beispiel: recently we redid the rock walls surrounding our property. We didn't even bother trying to figure out who owned what, to be honest. We just went around to each neighbor and said, these walls are 25 years old and crumbling and we're going to redo ours, it probably makes sense for you to redo your side too, want to split it with us? Everyone said yes. Wound up being a nice thing we all did together, actually. I should have seized the day and held a block party!

I realize this is a best-case scenario, but you never know what's going to happen. Is your neighbor a reasonable person, in your prior experience with her?

Thanks, val and walkin. Yes, I agree that it should be a mutually agreed thing, but our neighbor, who had previously agreed to the fence being rebuilt in the spring so we could both save money--she said that after a lot of surgeries for her dogs, cash was tight, so she was fine with it. We've done nice things for her in the past, btw--please don't think we're legalistic, etc. -- DH has gotten up on her roof and blown leaves off, he shoveled her driveway when it snowed. She hasn't done anything for us but there's really nothing she could do, I don't think, so we've been glad to do it. She keeps to herself, mostly.

And then suddenly we get an e-mail a couple of days ago saying that she's gotten an estimate to have it done by her contractor, she thinks it's a good deal, and she wants an answer *now*. Our contribution is about twice what we thought we'd be spending on the materials (we were going to split materials and DH and I would do all the construction -- we're really not hard to deal with).

That's why it's beginning to feel a bit tight and uncomfortable -- she has suddenly changed what she had agreed to before, and is trying to get us to commit more $$ than we'd had planned.

fly: It sounds like you are being very generous neighbors in the situation. Handling these matters via email can be a tricky business, though I think it was nice of her to send you an email with the estimate so you were not put on the spot and could mull it over. Situations change, and I imagine the dog situation changed for her. It sounds like your bottom line is not so much the when, but the financial side. We made our neighbors wait almost two years to replace our side fence--since first we were going to move, then later decided to remodel and didn't want to do the fence until after the remodel. They didn't like it much, but I figured if they couldn't wait until we were in a situation where we could do it, then they could pay it have it sooner. I'd about say the same in your situation, you have a budget and have generously offered free labor provided it's done a couple of months from now. Seems she either should wait or pay the difference.

I'm sure you could word something diplomatically about your financial constraints and the timing to hopefully get the message across. Bottom line is that people do have a responsibity to contain their animals, pools, etc. which I see as more her problem than yours.