Your stencil looks great, and fits the vibe you're going for. Glad you insisted on the right one.

If it comes up again, I think you should just tell Forbo and the dealer straight out that you don't want be involved in any further discussions about who gets to be the bagholder here. You just want your floor replaced, and properly--which probably means the squares rather than mixed planks. You had nothing to do with any of the installation, cleaning or even materials ordering decisions; all those were handled by Forbo or its certified reps.

But they need to know that you're to be kept out of it.

Your stencil is stunning, dianalo.

I am sorry about what happened with your smashing floor, especially since everyone seemed to be acting in good faith. But marcolo is right: The replacement should be sorted out among the Forbo rep, the original vendor, and the installer, with your only role being to provide an ok to the finished product. Otherwise, you will go stark raving mad without ever having moved out of the basement.

Good luck.

I apologize if this has already been discussed but does the entire floor need to be replaced? If so, then why not just go with the glue down tiles this time and repeat your pattern. This is what the rep is telling you should have been done (and recommended to you) in the first place. At least all the parties are talking at this point.

Good Luck.

I'm sorry Diana, but it sounds as though your installer voided any manufacturers warranty by an incorrect installation. Click tiles should never be trimmed. Really, the manufacturer would be well within their rights if they told you that they couldn't help you at all on your issue. Your installer should have read the installation instructions more clearly, and should have communicated to you that the pattern you wanted could not be done in the type of tile that you had chosen. Forbo is great to work with, and they might even help you out some here, but it really is your installer's fault for damaging the tiles.

hi dianalo...

your stencil is gorgeous! love those colors. glad you used that stencil and it was sent in a timely manner.

sounds like your floor is progressing toward a solution. that's a good thing. :)

I'm sorry Diana, but it sounds as though your installer voided any manufacturers warranty by an incorrect installation.

None of this is of any interest to dianolo. A point she needs to make loud and clear.

LWO - My feeling is that even though the floor was not laid as the mfr intended, they were not damaged until the manufacturer's cleaning company doused them with water and caused the damage. I am not asking for the floor be be relaid because of an installation problem, but because the flooring is now damaged. They came into my home and caused damage. If I had done that to the floor myself, I'd agree with your take on things, but would have an issue with the guy who sold it to me with knowledge of how we intended to use them.
I bought the tiles themselves from a certified Forbo dealer and have all the emails where he told me how much to by to achieve my pattern, which he had a copy of. I should have been advised at that point, that I'd need to go about it differently. My installer installed a legitimate pattern using the materials sold by the Forbo dealer for that exact purpose. It took him a lot of time and effort to figure out how to accomplish what we were trying to do. He put in his time and paid a worker to do it with him. I do not think it is his fault.
The Forbo rep's associate tried to say that we'd have had issues "down the line" with how it was installed, however, I am not asking for a replacement due to any "down the line" issues, but for a problem directly caused by Forbo's cleaning people last week. If Forbo had told me to hire a company and that they'd reimburse me for it, then that would be another story and I'd have an issue with the cleaners I might have chosen. I did not choose these cleaners, but trusted that they knew how to handle floors because they were sent by Forbo.
I had no intention of ever wet mopping my floors, so should have had years of use without a problem.
In any case, I am concerned that there are new scratches on the floor since they came and fixed the surface. No one has worn high heels or done anything other than walk across them since they were buffed and resealed last week. I am wondering if they were a good choice after all.
If I do get it done again in Marmoleum, I may do the 1 x 1s in my pattern or a pattern with only the 1 x 3 planks staggered in a zig zag, making sure that all sides will be clicked in. The glue down version of Marmolem tiles will not have a cork backing nor feel as good/giving underfoot.
I am just so unsure I want the Marm again because it seems to scratch up so easily. I have 2 young sons and don't want to be uptight about my kitchen and den floors being delicate. I thought that since it was used a lot in commercial settings, that it would be resilient. I do love the look and how it feels though...
I think I will start a post asking any Marm users how their floor's surface holds up over time.

Thanks for all the stencil love ;) It takes a lot longer than I thought because the pattern is so large and covering large areas. I had never done one so big before, so misjudged the time it would take. I love the result though.

Yes, marcolo, it is entirely relevant. It means that the installer is the one that should replace the floor. Voiding the warranty means that the manufacturer is off the hook for any damage and can absent themselves from the situation entirely should they choose to do so. Especially since the installer was not Forbo certfied but, "just a handyman". It's his repsonsibility to read understand and follow all of the installation instructions.

The warranty that any manufacturer provides is subject to the installer's correct installation. It would be like hooking up a refrigerator to a 240V electrical line, blowing the motor, and then asking SubZero to replace that refrigerator. Or having your oil changed at JiffyLube and them forgetting to put the plug in the oil pan and when the engine ran out of oil and seized, you ask Chevrolet to replace the car rather than JiffyLube. It's the installer's respopnibility to do so, and contacting the manufacturer will get you a "why are you calling me when your installer is the one who messed up here" response.

Appealing to them may be completely useless, unless they choose to help out as a goodwill gesture. Since Diana engaged the services of the installer directly, the installer is the one she should be talking to here. Not the manufacturer.

I bought the tiles themselves from a certified Forbo dealer and have all the emails where he told me how much to by to achieve my pattern, which he had a copy of. I should have been advised at that point, that I'd need to go about it differently. My installer installed a legitimate pattern using the materials sold by the Forbo dealer for that exact purpose.... I am not asking for a replacement due to any "down the line" issues, but for a problem directly caused by Forbo's cleaning people last week.

It wasn't just caused by Forbo's cleaning people; it was caused by Forbo's certified dealer, who told you how to achieve your pattern--i.e., told you to trim the tiles, which apparently should never have done.

In other words, it was caused by Forbo's misinformation and Forbo's cleaning people. By Forbo, in other words. I'm with you on not wanting to involve the installer--if Forbo's dealer told you how to do a pattern by trimming the tiles, that's on Forbo. And I think it's important for your negotiations to present it that way: the problem started with Forbo (the dealer) and ended with Forbo (the cleaners)--the installer just did what the Forbo dealer said he could do to achieve the pattern, so he shouldn't be dragged into this mess.

What I'm saying is it's important to not only blame it on the cleaners, but also on the dealer who told you you (either explicitly or implicitly) that you could trim the tiles. If he looked at your pattern and said what to buy to achieve it, and it that pattern could only be achieved by cutting tiles--i.e., it included shapes or sizes that Forbo does not sell, but which you can make by buying and cutting pieces that they do sell--then to me he was implicitly saying it was okay to cut the tiles. If you can't cut Forbo tiles then he should know, when he sees nonstandard sizes/shapes in a pattern, that the pattern cannot be made with Forbo tiles. And he should tell you that. As opposed to telling you what to buy to make it!

LWO - a Forbo dealer had his hands all over the planning for this pattern, which was not achievable by clicking all panels together. At THAT point, he should have pointed out a warranty issue or alternative way to go about things. He gave me a breakdown of how many cases of each color to buy and sold me the sizes that could not be mixed together without shaving in the pattern he was fully aware of.
I fully believe it is between the Forbo rep and the Forbo dealer on how to apportion responsibility amongst themselves.
The cleaner was "hired" and given instructions by the Forbo rep, so it is not really their fault (esp. since it was a favor and and not a paying job). The installer was handed a picture of my pattern (same as the dealer had) and had to figure out how to do it. It is not his fault at all. He made it clear to me not to use a wet mop on it and why. I would not have damaged the floor myself.
The cleaners came, I saw the machines and did not realize they would do anything "wet". I was out of their way, painting our bedroom while they worked. When it was all over, and the machines were turned off, I returned to see seams all sticking up at attention. They clearly were the ones who ruined the floor.
I don't blame anybody in the sense that anyone was trying to do something wrong. I just think that the dealer should have been more careful when selling to a homeowner (not a pro) and the rep should have seen the floor before sending over a crew who added water to it. I actually think the dealer is the one with the most responsibility for the damage, but would rather let the Forbo rep work that out with him. It should not be my problem at this point. I counted on the dealer's expertise and guidance.

If the dealer can't tell dianolo a different way to create the pattern he saw with the material he provided, then there's no further discussion needed. Frustrating for those who believe the customer is always wrong, but true.

Did Forbo tell the installer to trim the tiles to get them to fit? If not, he should have stopped to call Forbo when he realized he had to trim the tiles and they would no longer click together.

The cleaners used a cleaning method that works on click tiles when the tiles are properly clicked together. How where they to know that it would not work on your floor because your installer had trimmed the tiles? Was the cleaning arranged for by the Forbo dealer who figured out the tiles for the order or Forbo corporate?

The cleaners were sent to do our floors by the Forbo rep. I do not think they were at fault. The one most at fault, IMHO, was the dealer. He seemed nice, but I ended up being sold the wrong materials for the job he knew we were doing. He is supposed to be knowledgeable about what he sells. If not, then Forbo should not have him selling their product.

The Forbo rep from corporate hired the cleaning crew while trying to be helpful about the scratching. He is also a very nice person, but he sent an email today saying I should go see what I can get from the dealer and get back to him. I told him that he has much more clout with an authorized dealer than I do. I also think that I have been inconvenienced enough about all this and they should work out amongst themselves how to fully compensate me with either a new installed floor, or the money to cover materials, installation and removal of the damaged floor. It cost over $4k for materials and installation (approx 50/50), so it is not like I went cheap on getting this floor. It was our biggest splurge.
All I know is it is unfortunate for everyone how this all went, but worst for my family because we have to live with all this added stress and complications. We can't move our furniture back in until the floor is replaced. My dh is livid and I am heartbroken. I wanted the Marm floors and convinced him they were worth it. We don't have a back up plan and are so fried from the reno, we do not want to pick out anything else or have to handle any more problems.
Today we found out that the propane company our gc recommended dropped the ball completely and did not start the process to get a permit for our stove's propane line, which takes about a month. I had no clue about needing a separate permit and inspection by the fire marshal. My gc assumed they would take care of it all as they did for him in his own house. Not only did they not do it, but they don't answer their phone most days (tried twice last week and was only allowed to leave a vm once as the other time it said they were not taking calls). After over a half hour of automated hold music today, the lady told me they never get permits and my plumber was supposed to, which is entirely wrong information. I read the paperwork from Dec when they came to our house to say where to run the line, and it has a line spelling how much they are charging for obtaining a permit for us. I had gotten this receipt from the guy who came over and he said they "take care of everything" and to call when we are ready for hook up, which I tried to do last week. I did not bother going over details at the time because he came on our first day of demo and first day we were living in our bsmt (total chaos). I was glad he said they do everything, agreed on the price and was instructed to just call for installation. We fired their butts today and someone else is starting the process for us and will have our business.
We now will be without a stove for yet another month.
The counter guy is mia, so my island still does not have the work areas done. Luckily, he has not been paid yet, so I know he will return, lol.
The dw is installed but not mounted yet. I was allowed to use it though, so that was a victory today ;)

sending good vibes to you and looking forward to the day when you can look back and laugh at all of this quicksand you are trying to get through.

I would also suggest that you advise the Forbo rep that a lot of us here on GW are waiting to see what they are planning to do before making decisions about marmoleum.
And that all of us are also not only in a position to tell everyone we know about the result but the kind of people who would and do tell, whether it is positive or negative.

Muspic - I have mentioned that I have touted Marm here on the forum over a long period of time, but did not get into what I'd report if the outcome were not handled properly. I would not want to threaten anyone. Everyone involved had good intentions as far as I know. I am hoping they do the right thing and would not want to resort to getting ugly unless I were forced to in order to get what was fair.

They know my floors were damaged by their cleaner. They know they have responsibility. How they work it out to fix this for us, is up to them, but I don't want to be stuck unable to use our new rooms because they are bickering. We need the floors done now. Our den stuff is crammed into our living room, so our living room is unusable as well (and unpaintable). We can't get our tvs moved up to the main level until the floor is done and we have something to put them on and sit on in the rooms. We are switching from Verizon to cable and the cable guy said to wait until things were in the right places to be set up.
So much has gone wrong and I just want our normal lives to resume again.